Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 20 Mar 2019 20:34

^ bababanaras clearly meant 5000 mortars were fired. He even put up a representative picture. As mentioned above, IA would use either 81 mm or 120 mm shell.

The 120 mm shell is as destructive as one type of Bofors shell(cargo?), with abt 5 kg explosive, and the steel shell fragments to more than 300 pieces.

(This from memory, did not check actual figures).

We all know instances in Kargil / seen pics where these were hauled up by unit jawans.

Apparently the 120 mm is capable of being delivered by Mule mk. 1, avbl in Tipnis grey, with higher availability rate than videshi maal.

If enough 120 mm we're avbl in 1962, maybe the outcome would have been different. It's equivalent to artillery in destruction, range of 7-8 km, can fire at high trajectory over mountain peaks.

Even air burst versions with fuses are avbl.

Baba also put up Barret sniper rifle pic.

I think Indian Army has woken up, and slowly building up rage and momentum against enemy. Not seen them this angry since Kargil, about 20 years ago.

On sad note, the kit and systems of jawan are the same, and so are problems like ammo shortage, inept leaders, bureaucracy.

Our main WMD remains our jawans and young officers at unit level.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2019 20:38

Brahmos has 600km range in high mode

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Mar 2019 20:39

tsarkar wrote:
Chinmayanand wrote:Holy Camel ! Babaji uvacha , 180mm mortars numbering 5000 sent across 4 places to celebrate Holi .

https://twitter.com/bababanaras/status/ ... 30240?s=19
There is no 180 mm mortar in service in Indian Army. Our largest mortars are very few Finnish/Israeli Tampella 160 mm and Thomson Brandt 120 mm.

This kind of posts expose the knowledge or lack of it of such twitter posters.

A simple google search would have revealed this fact

Babaji mentioned in a post dated Jan 26,2019 that 40 S-23 artillery guns moved to LoC from Nasik. Looks like Baba knows what he is talking about.

https://twitter.com/bababanaras/status/ ... 25088?s=19

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Mar 2019 20:52

Manjgu, you may hear sonic booms tonight .

https://twitter.com/bababanaras/status/ ... 30209?s=19

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 20 Mar 2019 20:54

Babaji's republic day messages and others' responses very interesting... remember this precedes Pulwama, and an action in March is called out.

Regarding the S-23s it might be their "last hurrah" before being laid to rest due to age or outage of ammo.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 20 Mar 2019 21:04

Baba is talking about operation MOVING POTHOLE ..

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 20 Mar 2019 21:09

Singha wrote:foreboding silence is always more terrifying than fiery speeches.

The cheenis would know this too, after Doklam.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Mar 2019 21:10

Operation Ginger

Baba keeps talking about this op.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Mar 2019 21:14

well today there was heavy movement of choppers... flying in 3's !! never saw that before. and only a occasional fighter in the afternoon..though there was a constant whine ... all day long.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 20 Mar 2019 21:19

Per baba, DRDO's Swati WLR is playing an important role at LOC in neutralizing Paki's mortar positions. Happy to see that many DRDO products are proving their mettle in actual service. I am sure, pain points will be taken note by services & passed along to DRDO for resolution & further improvement. Lots of small steps like these help us along our path of having as much indigenous products as possible.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 20 Mar 2019 21:22

Singha wrote:^^ perhaps 180 should read 81mm or 120mm because these are the mortars we have.

i have never seen this S-23 180mm since the mid 80s when i started watching TV. someone older than my gen has to answer.

We also retired the Vijayanta/Vickers/T55 tanks.. Yet, we know they are embedded with infantry units at the LOC as 'I-tanks'/Infantry tanks and take pot shots at enemy bunkers. Still remember the.. 'Yes sir.. tank ka lag gaya.. tank ka lag gaya..'

If infantry units on the LOC can have Vijayantas for shock and awe, why not one or two S-23s? Better use it than have it rot away in some cantonement.. I bet the ammo is a lot cheaper as well. Even life expired ammo can be used by the jugadu infantry man.

But yeah.. 5000 180mm sounds like a lot..

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 20 Mar 2019 21:29

sudeepj wrote: <snip...>

But yeah.. 5000 180mm sounds like a lot..

Possibly clearing the storage for naya maal.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Mar 2019 21:31

IK is meeting three service Chiefs. Tomorrow is Holi . Rang me bhang planning ?

https://twitter.com/schaheid/status/110 ... 56033?s=19

nam · Post by **nam** » 20 Mar 2019 21:39

With PAF attacking IA position on 27th, it would have broken the 2003 cease caliber limits of 155MM.

So IA is free from that "bandan". It is free to pound PA position with the entire kitchen sink.

Question is how "big" the kitchen sink is and whose head has it been falling

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 20 Mar 2019 21:41

Chinmayanand wrote:Operation Ginger

Baba keeps talking about this op.

I remember that article was Chindu's attempt to show NDA UPA equal equal, also PSwami did his bit to further that narrative..

The blithering idiots don't know the difference between operations conducted on the down low by the IA to avenge fallen comrades and operations that send a clear 'Soil ur shalwars' variety msg signed straight by the PM.,

I remember those dark days when the IA spokesperson would report the death of soldiers due to BAT action, and would say that the IA would respond 'At a time and place of its choosing' and 'appropriate response' would be given.. And the Track thoo types would drone on about 'Uninterrupted and uninterruptible talks'.. Those words put me straight into days of depression.

But now.. those same words from the IA mean something else.. these words mean business, they mean guaranteed pain for the enemy.. the only face saver for the enemy would be cut internet and mobile services and lie through their teeth and mush.. Deny everything..

The likes of the past UPA should be never allowed ever to come close to a governing position..

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 20 Mar 2019 21:43

Who is IK sir ?

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 20 Mar 2019 21:44

Chinmayanand wrote:IK is meeting three service Chiefs. Tomorrow is Holi . Rang me bhang planning ?

https://twitter.com/schaheid/status/110 ... 56033?s=19

As if IK has any say in what is going to happen..

This twitter user got his chaddi uttrao'd many times by Indian / gora def journos and for his dumba$$ claims about the Feb 27 aerial conflict..

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 20 Mar 2019 21:44

suryag wrote:Who is IK sir ?

You must be joking, saar?

Immy if I must really spell it out..

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Mar 2019 21:45

suryag wrote:Who is IK sir ?

Imran Khan

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 20 Mar 2019 22:01

Ohhh shoots kaptaan? Why is he meeting the chiefs to serve them tea ?

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 20 Mar 2019 22:22

^ He met them fairly recently after Balakot (National Security Council).

Imran has more nuke threats during the crisis than conducted service chiefs meetings.
(Upholding local customs and traditions?)

Making another nuke threat won't cut it, their awaam will question Imran's empty words, India remains the same.

Heavy Indian action in three dimensions remains order of day.

Might not actually launch nukes, not good enough reason yet.

No money for large fight.

Giving up Dawood / Syed Salahuddin will look like a defeat, unless adroitly spun with full cooperation of armed forces.

Will give them some peace, to get overseas funds and fight again another day. ( A paki classic)

Dawood is still useful, paki might give Salahuddin, and claim Kashmir groups are no longer supported.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 20 Mar 2019 22:35

3 Chiefs will grumble that India is pounding them.

IK will speak to them from personal experience and explain how to use cigar cases together with KY gel so no pain is felt. https://theprint.in/pageturner/excerpt/ ... lia/82385/

Pakis are in a hard place. Publicize the pounding and lose face in the awaam, or grin and bear it while losing men, materiel, officers and possibly land.

I wonder what's our end game here, do we just punish them for a few weeks, redraw the LoC locally to get the better & more defensible posts and then call it a day with the hope that they have learnt their lesson? Ideally we should be using any advantage we have to attach electrodes to the ba!!s of the Pakfauj, and render a shock to them whenever they do anything naughty. We need a lot of pre-paid punishment cards for the pakis which can be used in the future. For instance if they misbehave we leak the details of one encounter where they lost X people and Y posts. We need as many levers as we can get to train them into good behaviour.

Shivaji · Post by **Shivaji** » 20 Mar 2019 22:36

dinesh_kimar wrote:
Dawood is still useful, paki might give Salahuddin, and claim Kashmir groups are no longer supported.

As if on cue, below link states that we have demanded Dawood and Salahuddin.

From 16-March.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s&from=mdr

Dream on....

What is the chance that Pakis will hand these over stating that evidence shared by India was credible and we hand these over to India as these are on international list?

If they do not, Pakistan day is not going to be held....loss of face.

There is still some possibility to save face by handing over....

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 20 Mar 2019 22:47

Singha wrote:^^ probably he did not mean mortars at all but AMR. i dont think it will be unknown to the wider world if 5000 mortars are fired in one barrage.

a informant who cannot be identified was saying the R73 type missiles with cooled IIR seekers & glass front have a lifespan of 3 takeoff-landing cycles ?
also a "lock on" activation means some liquid nitrogen is released to cool the seeker and then its use it or lose it.
ie atleast the seeker head needs refurbishing after 3 cycles?

since electronics on civil a.c are just fine with daily takeoff cycles, what is the problem - is it seekers or the warhead & solid fuel motor grain becomes unreliable?

it also means the fabled 16 hellfire load of apache/reaper are just for show unless a war starts....hot peace they will likely cart 2 onlee to preserve life. that means apache == LCH

I actually did some work (wound ultra high pressure bottles) on this for my employer but eventually we didn’t see much money so company backed off. Coolers for missiles do not have liquids for two reasons- missile maneuvers which could cause liqid to block or come out of the valve. Second reason is phase change from liquid to gas for nitrogen is very slow, that’s why Dr’s can keep LN in a flask for a month to burn warts. Gas coolers are super fast with predetermined cooling time and insensitive to manuevering.

The cooler is just compressed gas bottle at very high pressure, near liquification and valve is usually actuated with a micro explosives. These bottle coolers are replaced after every use, no restrictions or relations with seeker life.

My guess is the life depends on mechanical stresses alone.

UAVs and thermal cameras use compressors similar to AC or refrigerator for long life > 10k hours.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 20 Mar 2019 23:11

don't know where else to post. The video covers many abstract things thus digesting it at one go might be difficult.

khan · Post by **khan** » 20 Mar 2019 23:19

yensoy wrote:Pakis are in a hard place. Publicize the pounding and lose face in the awaam, or grin and bear it while losing men, materiel, officers and possibly land.

I wonder what's our end game here, do we just punish them for a few weeks, redraw the LoC locally to get the better & more defensible posts and then call it a day with the hope that they have learnt their lesson?

IMO, this is the short term end-game. Establish a new normal where India pounds them at will and sends in the IAF to molest their assets at will.

Long term, the goal is to beat Pakistan down into submission. No one knows what the exact methods to beat them into submission will be and or what form the Pakistani submission will take - if it comes. It could be something face-saving or it could be total humiliation - it all depends on how things play out.

Conflict is not some IT project where you have a goal and everyone involved is incentivized to reach that goal.

This “Powell doctrine” stuff where there are clear military objectives, is only achievable where there is a huge force asymmetry.

Because the US has been the main aggressor for the last 30 years, and have had such an overwhelming edge over their opponents, there is an unrealistic expectation that there will be some clean military theory or strategy behind what is happening.

India just needs to hit them, try to control the escalation, improvise and keep moving forward by creating more “new normals” that empathize Indian strength.

What has been accomplished in the last month have been HUGE steps forward.

disha · Post by **disha** » 20 Mar 2019 23:24

Katare wrote: I actually did some work (wound ultra high pressure bottles) on this for my employer but eventually we didn’t see much money so company backed off. Coolers for missiles do not have liquids for two reasons- missile maneuvers which could cause liqid to block or come out of the valve. Second reason is phase change from liquid to gas for nitrogen is very slow, that’s why Dr’s can keep LN in a flask for a month to burn warts. Gas coolers are super fast with predetermined cooling time and insensitive to manuevering.

The cooler is just compressed gas bottle at very high pressure, near liquification and valve is usually actuated with a micro explosives. These bottle coolers are replaced after every use, no restrictions or relations with seeker life.

Thanks Katare'ji for throwing some light. I also suspected that carrying cryogenic (liquid) nitrogen canisters in a missile would be difficult. Your post reminds me of the 12g nitrogen gas cartridges (some 8-10 cm in length) and that can be used to cool down the seeker head. I think there will be limited amount of cartridges to dispense nitrogen (or limited quantity) and hence after "arming 3 times" it has to be returned to base for refurbishing the N2. Also putting the seeker through cold cycles may require it to be re-checked and all the shake and bake it goes through when attached in mission mode requires a recertification of missile.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Mar 2019 23:24

By asking for unobtainable actions to establish peace, we get the opportunity to keep things on a boil.

Chunkian earth-e-shaster these yindoo brumin buniyas are, I tell ya! They are assaulting Pakistan's jaguar vein and Pakistanis can't even complain or admit the assault.

Shivaji wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:
Dawood is still useful, paki might give Salahuddin, and claim Kashmir groups are no longer supported.
As if on cue, below link states that we have demanded Dawood and Salahuddin.

From 16-March.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s&from=mdr

Dream on....

What is the chance that Pakis will hand these over stating that evidence shared by India was credible and we hand these over to India as these are on international list?

If they do not, Pakistan day is not going to be held....loss of face.

There is still some possibility to save face by handing over....

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 20 Mar 2019 23:27

khan wrote:
yensoy wrote:Pakis are in a hard place. Publicize the pounding and lose face in the awaam, or grin and bear it while losing men, materiel, officers and possibly land.

I wonder what's our end game here, do we just punish them for a few weeks, redraw the LoC locally to get the better & more defensible posts and then call it a day with the hope that they have learnt their lesson?
IMO, this is the short term end-game. Establish a new normal where India pounds them at will and sends in the IAF to molest their assets at will.

Long term, the goal is to beat Pakistan down into submission. No one knows what the exact methods to beat them into submission will be and or what form the Pakistani submission will take - if it comes. It could be something face-saving or it could be total humiliation - it all depends on how things play out.

Conflict is not some IT project where you have a goal and everyone involved is incentivized to reach that goal.

This “Powell doctrine” stuff where there are clear military objectives, is only achievable where there is a huge force asymmetry.

Because the US has been the main aggressor for the last 30 years, and have had such an overwhelming edge over their opponents, there is an unrealistic expectation that there will be some clean military theory or strategy behind what is happening.

India just needs to hit them, try to control the escalation, improvise and keep moving forward by creating more “new normals” that empathize Indian strength.

What has been accomplished in the last month have been HUGE steps forward.

Take the fight from your land to theirs - Pakis are automatically on the back foot

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 20 Mar 2019 23:48

Chinmayanand wrote:
suryag wrote:Who is IK sir ?
Imran Khan

His full name is Imran Khan Niazi and his uncle aak niazi surrendered Dhaka in 1971

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 21 Mar 2019 00:00

SBajwa wrote:
Chinmayanand wrote:
Imran Khan
His full name is Imran Khan Niazi and his uncle aak niazi surrendered Dhaka in 1971

Good propaganda material, but they are from different branches of Niazi clan.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 21 Mar 2019 00:07

^ I understand that though they are from same tribe, not actually related.

Both are tigers, eh?

If Imran thinks that tall good looking pathans will put the short dark yindoo masses to order, naturally dominating genetic superiority will win the day, then he needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

AAK Niazi used to issue daily threats until he surrendered. I think in the end, he didn't even believe his own words !

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2019 00:14

They called themselves tigers but are really alley cats in painted stripes.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Mar 2019 00:14

dinesh_kimar wrote:If Imran thinks that tall good looking pathans will put the short dark yindoo masses to order, naturally dominating genetic superiority will win the day, then he needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

Tall "good looking pathans" are walking around with cigar cases. Just saying...

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 21 Mar 2019 00:29

Karan M wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:If Imran thinks that tall good looking pathans will put the short dark yindoo masses to order, naturally dominating genetic superiority will win the day, then he needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
Tall "good looking pathans" are walking around with cigar cases. Just saying...

Anyone remember the sandwich sheikh story from the US invasion of Afg - Pathan involved there too

Shivaji · Post by **Shivaji** » 21 Mar 2019 00:55

Pakistanis openly speaking against army? Do not remember this being said so openly by a main political leader.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 2538293248
"Big statement from Bilawal Bhuttoo Zardari exposing nefereous designs of Pakistan Army and sham action. Bilawal says, I don't believe Pak Govt has acted against banned terror groups. They have been put in protective custody so that Indian planes don't strike and kill them. Huge!"

Even on Twitter, tweets of Aam Abduls have toned down due to no news from Pakis except re-conciliatory noises against big figures from our side...from likes of Baba, very good tamatar thread by Eztainutlacatl ~ळाळुक. With some many "Chowkidar" handles, liberals, leftists and Pakis are greatly riled.
‏

abhishekbit · Post by **abhishekbit** » 21 Mar 2019 01:11

Now Pakistani handles too confirm that all is not well across the border. Pakistan is hiding about recent losses from Awaam.

Pakistan will again use its right to self defense - PM Imran Khan says after a meeting with heads of the Armed Forces.

What's going on?

https://twitter.com/schaheid/status/1108441004179443718

Another Pakistani Twitter handle says:

EXTREME High Level meeting in PM Office, shows that anything can happen anytime. Something is surely cooking up. COAS , CAS , CNS along with CJCSC meets PM Khan.

https://twitter.com/PDCMDOfficial/statu ... 2198462464

Baba was perhaps right about 50+ figure.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Mar 2019 01:28

Meanwhile in Dubai

https://www.news18.com/news/world/forme ... 69885.html

Former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf Hospitalised After 'Reaction' From Rare Disease

The infectious microorganism, a gram-negative antibiotic-resistant strain of Fistularium jihadii, is practically unknown in the civilized world but commonly endemic to Madrassa toilets and Pakistan Army facilities

New Delhi: Former Pakistan president General Pervez Musharraf has reportedly been shifted to a hospital in Dubai after suffering a reaction from a rare disease.

According to a report in the Dawn newspaper, Musharraf’s party said the former military ruler was already undergoing treatment for the disease but was rushed to the hospital on Saturday after his condition worsened.

The statement was made by All Pakistan Muslim League (APML) Secretary-General Mehrene Adam Malik, the report said.

APML Overseas President Afzaal Siddiqui is also said to have told DawnNewsTV that Musharraf had suffered a reaction from amyloidosis, a rare condition for which the former president was receiving treatment.

Musharraf's illness had surfaced last October and at that time, as per reports, the General was treated in London.

Note: Dubai.

Far away from retribution. The JeM and their friendly orifice-rs at all levels of TSPA/ISI are BADLY jalaaoed by Balakot and looking for someone on whom to put the blame. Who better than Mushy? If he hadn't tightened the jihadi tap after 2004 (their story goes), the JeM could have pressed home the advantage and seized Kashmir at that time itself. Instead we were able to build fences, buy SPICE 2K etc. with disastrous results for the Kashmir jihad.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Mar 2019 01:32

HAND GRENADES? Buggers are thinking trench warfare or frontal assault on hilltops? Hope the money is used in a worthy cause, no need to announce, thank u: ATGMs. BRAHMOS. Ambassador cars with radar sets. Minefield-clearing "snakes". Robotic SWAT teams for house-to-house in Moobad ruins and Mirpur. Earthmovers for LaHore parking lots.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Mar 2019 01:36

Rudradev wrote:Meanwhile in Dubai
https://www.news18.com/news/world/forme ... 69885.html
Former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf Hospitalised After 'Reaction' From Rare Disease

Foot-in-Mouth is not so rare, is it?
UBCN Analysis:
A few days back, Mush opened his mouth and said PA runs JEM, and they tried to ~~assassinate~~ pest-e-sha'eed him. It is one thing for Nawaz Sharif to admit that Northern Flight Infantry was "wiped out" (4000 dead), but quite another for a fomer CEO/ COAS to say this. Fatal, IMO.