Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Feb 2019 23:17

Just checked Flight radar, apart from 2 commercial flights near Karachi absolutely nothing else is flying. Why are they still shutting down thier airspace?

Wait a sec PIA 746 Jeddah to Sialkot is now turning towards Karachi, baffling

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 23:18

i read it will open at 6PM tomorrow.

maybe all the brown shalwars need time for a good wash and sun dry tomorrow, to be presentable to visitors

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Feb 2019 23:20

PiA764D Jeddah Failsalabad, again looks to be landing towards Karchi, given the state of trains and roads in Pakistan, all these gulf folks on annual leave will take 2 more days to get to thier destinations, using up more oil reserves

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 28 Feb 2019 23:23

tsarkar wrote:Confirmation that Pakistani F-16 use P&W engine and not GE https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... _15-80.pdf

Sir....what if they were ex jordanian? The amraam definitely was and the wreckage analysis seems to corroborate it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Feb 2019 23:24

ELY078 El AL Hong Kong Tel Aviv now heading over Tibet just north of Kashmir, will be intresting if flies over Afg or Iran rather than turn south to India SA and the Israel.

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Feb 2019 23:27

A Ramjet powered BVR would have lot energy for a chase...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Feb 2019 23:28

Taha Siddiqui (@TahaSSiddiqui) (https://twitter.com/TahaSSiddiqui/statu ... 7200059394

Can our PM Imran Khan also handover Masood Azhar, Hafiz Saeed, Daud Ibrahim and other globally wanted persons living in Pakistan as a #peace gesture?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 28 Feb 2019 23:29

Pakistan received a special envoy sent by Saudi king also the Saudi ambassador paid a visit to MOD where he was given proof of Paki complicity in Pulwama.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:29

Moved a whole bunch of posts from the Indian Air Force: News & Discussion thread into here.

No more discussions - on this topic - in that thread. Thank You.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:31

nam wrote:https://twitter.com/Nambitiger1/status/ ... 7054807040
The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations). May he RIP.
This is as official it gets.

What an amazing tweet. Air Marshal Nambiar is truly a gem!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:32

Century Of Service Between Them, IAF Says Its MiG-21 Just Scored World’s 1st F-16 Kill
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/02 ... -kill.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:36

Reportedly this is Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din, No 19 Sherdils Sqn, Pakistan Air Force.

He is standing in front of a Chinese Su-27 or Su-30 or a Chinese copy of one.

vivekmehta · Post by **vivekmehta** » 28 Feb 2019 23:36

I don't know why most of us are relieved or happy on return of 1 officer.... In our proxy war we have lost 100x of this.... what about there secrifise... It's will be shame if we stop here.... This will mean letting Pak walk away will a black cheque

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:36

vivekmehta wrote:I don't know why most of us are relieved or happy on return of 1 officer.... In our proxy war we have lost 100x of this.... what about there secrifise... It's will be shame if we stop here.... This will mean letting Pak walk away will a black cheque

Because he is valuable and he is *OUR* officer. There is nothing more to be said.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 28 Feb 2019 23:37

Singha wrote: either be with us or against us. and third party wink wink transfers via turkey et al will also count. a lot of used F16s are going to get dumped on market due to JSF and PAF will look to recaptalize its f-16 numbers off that - it needs US permission even to sell old f16 as israel found to its cost lately

Geopolitics and Military and Economic relations are not this straight forward. How do you think the PAF maintains its Mirage aircraft? Who supplies them engines for the JF-17's, and where is their AEW capability coming from? Does the MOD do business with (in some form or the other) any of those suppliers? The real art here is to work your diplomatic and geopolitical might to isolate the Pakistani state as much as possible and to discourage advanced military cooperation between the Pakis and the rest of the World. I think both India's work, and Pakistan's own efforts to that end have led to quite a bit of ground being covered on that front. They are now virtually isolated from most western advanced capability barring a small chance of acquiring used aircraft and then literally begging for upgrades.

They have nearly given up on new F-16's and barring any Russian offer only have the Chinese route to exploit for advanced military wares which come with a debt trap. This is at least in part due to the increased G2G and Mil-Mil partnership between India and the major western military suppliers to Pakistan.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 28 Feb 2019 23:39

India Today reported that Bahawalpur & Muridke were also on the target list but dropped at the last moment due to civilian collateral damage concerns and PAF response times.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 28 Feb 2019 23:40

brarji,
I read about a 2016 fms sale request for additional block 52s and other equipment to pak. Did that go through? Don't think we'd have missed it but still.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 23:43

Aditya_V wrote:PiA764D Jeddah Failsalabad, again looks to be landing towards Karchi, given the state of trains and roads in Pakistan, all these gulf folks on annual leave will take 2 more days to get to thier destinations, using up more oil reserves

a western corridor between quetta to peshwar was opened earlier today evening to permit stranded planes and HNI people to fly out.

as of now its silence of the graveyard.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Feb 2019 23:43

Hard to believe paki govt is releasing the wingco out of goodwill, what if we have the other pilot and we are swapping them ?

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Feb 2019 23:44

I am beginning to suspect serious issues between PAF and PA.

After the first PA presser following Op Balakot I had noted how the army guy threw PAF under the bus. Now we have the following after the shoot down of F16:

PAk Army goes to town that two Indian aircraft were shot down, and this lie gets propagated all the way to the puppet PM statement.

Pak Army goes selfie happy and starts posting photos that later prove conclusively that an F 16 was shot down

So this lasts for several hours before Pak Army acknowledges that only one Indian aircraft was shot down.

So my simple question: Where was PAF when their PM and Army counterparts were solidifying their impression of being pathological liars?

PAF, one would imagine, would know almost in real time that one of their aircraft was shot down. Yet, no peep from them that hey, wait a minute, one of these shot down could be ours...

Ok give them benefit of doubt for sulking about being thrown under the bus initially, but then how about the all knowing overlords of Pak Army? Didn’t their Major General, no less, have the sense of sharing the images with his supposed colleagues in PAF before enthusiastically joining the ranks of Tweeple?

I am telling you, something smells fishy, and it’s not the default smell associated with Pakistan

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 28 Feb 2019 23:45

Prasad wrote:brarji,
I read about a 2016 fms sale request for additional block 52s and other equipment to pak. Did that go through? Don't think we'd have missed it but still.

Nope, the US Congress objected to foreign mil financing being chosen as the means to fund the sale forcing Pakistan to eventually cancel the deal altogether. I was actually surprised at the state of their air-force as I hadn't looked into it for a long time. They have virtually no capability to undertake any sort of credible and sustained aerial offensive operation against the combined ground and air capability of the IAF. The few b50/52 F-16's they have are not armed with the latest missile variants (Aim-120C7 and 9X) and even if they were, there are too few once you account for all the roles they have to fulfill in an offensive-defensive mix. The AEW is inadequate to risk on an offensive operation and the ground support is lacking in terms of capable integrated air defense systems..

vivekmehta · Post by **vivekmehta** » 28 Feb 2019 23:45

Rakesh wrote:
vivekmehta wrote:I don't know why most of us are relieved or happy on return of 1 officer.... In our proxy war we have lost 100x of this.... what about there secrifise... It's will be shame if we stop here.... This will mean letting Pak walk away will a black cheque
Because he is valuable and he is *OUR* officer. There is nothing more to be said.

Guru ji I accept he is ours... But are the guys we lost in last 20 yrs where not ours . We are loosing 20-30 men per month .. including officers ... I don't want to count officer separate ... We r loosing our men on daily basis.... This office is no different.... I will wish him well when he returns... But shame that we have so short memory.... 40.. is to 1. ... That too our own . That's the math for the day....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 23:48

but hasnt it always been in this order?

PA > PAF > PN > PM

PM is the peon who does what the other 3 tell him to do, esp the big dog PA.

PAF was supposed to be "secular" in the old days, maybe to some extent it still is?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Feb 2019 23:54

News X reports with visuals Pakis removing F-16 debris, drop tank and what looked like part of the engine intake onto a lorry.Hasty removal of evidence.They first yried to say that it was part of an Indian fighter.
More conclusively is the debris of the AIM-120 C AMRAAM
missile which fell inside an Indian military establishment, proving that the PAF used an F-16 intruding onto foreign ( Indian) territory in violation of the sale of the same.The numerals of the missile will easily prove that it was sold to Pak which may now receive US stick.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 28 Feb 2019 23:55

Meanwhile something brewing in Balochistan.

Pakistan Army in full withdrawal from Occupied Balochistan - Tarek Fateh https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/1 ... 5818511360

Video :

Baloch fighters carried out attacks against #PakistanArmy in Mand & Sibbi areas of #Balochistan. Large number of military personnel have reportedly been killed - Jahan Baloch https://twitter.com/Baloch_world/status ... 2574771200

khan · Post by **khan** » 28 Feb 2019 23:56

Y I Patel wrote:I am beginning to suspect serious issues between PAF and PA.

After the first PA presser following Op Balakot I had noted how the army guy threw PAF under the bus. Now we have the following after the shoot down of F16:

PAk Army goes to town that two Indian aircraft were shot down, and this lie gets propagated all the way to the puppet PM statement.

Pak Army goes selfie happy and starts posting photos that later prove conclusively that an F 16 was shot down

So this lasts for several hours before Pak Army acknowledges that only one Indian aircraft was shot down.

So my simple question: Where was PAF when their PM and Army counterparts were solidifying their impression of being pathological liars?

PAF, one would imagine, would know almost in real time that one of their aircraft was shot down. Yet, no peep from them that hey, wait a minute, one of these shot down could be ours...

Ok give them benefit of doubt for sulking about being thrown under the bus initially, but then how about the all knowing overlords of Pak Army? Didn’t their Major General, no less, have the sense of sharing the images with his supposed colleagues in PAF before enthusiastically joining the ranks of Tweeple?

I am telling you, something smells fishy, and it’s not the default smell associated with Pakistan

Their Navy & Airforce are known to have status and resources far below that of their Army, and their Army are known to be pompous incompetents. There is probably interagency disfunction far beyond human imagination going on there.

I don’t think there is any need for conspiracy theories.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Feb 2019 23:57

Singha wrote:but hasnt it always been in this order?

PA > PAF > PN > PM

PM is the peon who does what the other 3 tell him to do, esp the big dog PA.

PAF was supposed to be "secular" in the old days, maybe to some extent it still is?

That’s what they and their clients would have us believe. The reality, of course, is that 24 turned tail when challenged by 8.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:57

vivekmehta wrote:Guru ji I accept he is ours... But are the guys we lost in last 20 yrs where not ours . We are loosing 20-30 men per month .. including officers ... I don't want to count officer separate ... We r loosing our men on daily basis.... This officer is no different.... I will wish him well when he returns... But shame that we have so short memory.... 40.. is to 1. ... That too our own . That's the math for the day....

Because he is ALIVE. What part of that exactly are you not understanding? The 20 - 30 men you are referring to have laid down the lives. They are NOT coming back.

He needs to be returned back to India - in one piece. He needs to be re-united with his wife, his son, his parents (his father is a retired Air Marshal) and his larger family. He is our citizen. He is our brother.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Feb 2019 23:59

Ambassador G.Partha who negotiated the release of Sqd.Ldr.Nachiketa is on TV right now explaining how he obtained his release.He said that under the Geneva Convention the Red Cross would be the agency responsible for prisoner exchanges.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Mar 2019 00:00

Singha wrote:but hasnt it always been in this order?

PA > PAF > PN > PM

PM is the peon who does what the other 3 tell him to do, esp the big dog PA.

PAF was supposed to be "secular" in the old days, maybe to some extent it still is?

No longer true about the PAF. There is serious radicalization going on in the non-commissioned officers (and even in the officer corps) of the PAF. Senior PAF officers are concerned enough, that it became a public issue. The PA is completely radicalized. Not much is known about the PN.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Mar 2019 00:01

vivekmehta wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Because he is valuable and he is *OUR* officer. There is nothing more to be said.
Guru ji I accept he is ours... But are the guys we lost in last 20 yrs where not ours . We are loosing 20-30 men per month .. including officers ... I don't want to count officer separate ... We r loosing our men on daily basis.... This office is no different.... I will wish him well when he returns... But shame that we have so short memory.... 40.. is to 1. ... That too our own . That's the math for the day....

Sir, calm down. That's not the way how conflict and retaliation works.

1. enemy attacks through proxies
2. we successfully retaliate disproportionately. Note that we are done here. mission accomplished. From this point on we take defensive posture with clear red line.

now. it is up to enemy to make next move. So in this case
3. they attacked

Two scenarios.
a. They cross the line by inflicting severe damage
b. we successfully prevent the damage

if scenario a) then we attack again
if scenario b) then we go back to our defensive posture

Here we are observing scenario b). And hence it is welcome that they are releasing our pow as per geneva convention.

keep repeating this each time enemy do a proxy war, and test enemy resolve. Lets see who blinks first. This is called war of attrition. And that's how it works.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 01 Mar 2019 00:07

Singha wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:PiA764D Jeddah Failsalabad, again looks to be landing towards Karchi, given the state of trains and roads in Pakistan, all these gulf folks on annual leave will take 2 more days to get to thier destinations, using up more oil reserves
a western corridor between quetta to peshwar was opened earlier today evening to permit stranded planes and HNI people to fly out.

as of now its silence of the graveyard.

That Saab 2000 which flew that route in the after noon could be reconning that flight path before giving the go ahead to open it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Mar 2019 00:10

One of the PAF F-16 pilot has told informally in phone conversation that they hit 350 Indian ground troops, looks like that failed. So confirms another of the Pakis- that they strike was meant to hit depopulated areas.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 00:12

PM Modi: ‘Abhi abhi pilot project pura hua hai, abhi real karna hai’
Wing Commander Abhinandan's release: PM Modi's remark comes minutes after Pakistan PM Imran Khan announced Abhinandan will be repatriated tomorrow.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... e-5605376/

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Mar 2019 00:15

Rakesh wrote:
Singha wrote:but hasnt it always been in this order?

PA > PAF > PN > PM

PM is the peon who does what the other 3 tell him to do, esp the big dog PA.

PAF was supposed to be "secular" in the old days, maybe to some extent it still is?
No longer true about the PAF. There is serious radicalization going on in the non-commissioned officers (and even in the officer corps) of the PAF. Senior PAF officers are concerned enough, that it became a public issue. The PA is completely radicalized. Not much is known about the PN.

correct, this was highlighted during attempt on mushy's life during his term as el presidente, which had mid ranking paf officers among the planners. Air Cmde parvez Khokhar of tejas fame also mentioned the increased radicalization of paf personnel during an air show interaction.
Also the attack on PN p3c orions also supposed to have been done with insider support.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 00:18

all iz well then. everyone is on same playing field

khan · Post by **khan** » 01 Mar 2019 00:19

Singha wrote:PM Modi: ‘Abhi abhi pilot project pura hua hai, abhi real karna hai’
Wing Commander Abhinandan's release: PM Modi's remark comes minutes after Pakistan PM Imran Khan announced Abhinandan will be repatriated tomorrow.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... e-5605376/

It would be nice if Modi goes mad dog now. Everyone will advise the Pakistanis to “exercise restraint”.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Mar 2019 00:20

Aditya_V wrote:One of the PAF F-16 pilot has told informally in phone conversation that they hit 350 Indian ground troops, looks like that failed. So confirms another of the Pakis- that they strike was meant to hit depopulated areas.

didn't quite get this, told whom ? They hit 350 troops ? Most importantly, source ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 00:23

is #sialkot still in indian hands ?

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 01 Mar 2019 00:25

Snehashis wrote:Meanwhile something brewing in Balochistan.

Pakistan Army in full withdrawal from Occupied Balochistan - Tarek Fateh https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/1 ... 5818511360

Video :

Baloch fighters carried out attacks against #PakistanArmy in Mand & Sibbi areas of #Balochistan. Large number of military personnel have reportedly been killed - Jahan Baloch https://twitter.com/Baloch_world/status ... 2574771200

The great magician Feynman once said that the easiest person to fool is yourself. Need to be skeptical of all news especially the ones you want to believed to be true.