Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Shivaji · Post by **Shivaji** » 28 Feb 2019 18:24

One possible course of action can be repealing article 35A.

External enemy is subdued for now. CRPF / BSF / ITBP already in place. Border is already being guarded. Popular sentiments are already aligned with government.

If Pakis make a noise or untoward incident, that can be our chance to take to round 2.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Feb 2019 18:24

so what is interesting is how did the 2nd amraam miss?
fired in haste? at too close range? without a proper lock?

or we have good defences and they got lucky

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:25

Salute sir, hope everything goes well at the handoff tomorrow. People who are hyperventilating (on and off BRF) about Wg Cdr Abhinandan's return, please see the poise with which his father responded.

Indian pilot Abhinandan's family serving India for generations - PTI via TNIE, Published: 28th February 2019 05:28 PM | Last Updated: 28th February 2019 05:28 PM

CHENNAI: The father of Indian pilot Abhinandan Varthaman, captured by Pakistan after air combat, on Thursday said he was proud of his son's bravery and thanked the people for their support and good wishes.

In a statement, Abhinandan's father S Varthaman, who was an Air Marshall, referred to a purported video of his son after his capture, and said he spoke like a "true soldier" despite being in captivity and that he was praying he would not get tortured in the neighbouring country and return home "safe and sound".

In the evening India erupted in joy when Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan announced that Abhinandan will be released on Friday as a "gesture of peace".

The family of Abhinandan has an excellent track record of serving the Indian Air Force for generations since the Second World War and his father besides being an ace pilot was a consultant for Mani Ratnam's film "Kaatru Veliyidai".

Pakistan held Abhinandan Wednesday after fighter jets of both nations engaged in an air battle following an unsuccessful attempt to target Indian military installations in retaliatory strikes.

"Thank you, my friends, for your concern and wishes. I thank God for his blessings, Abhi is alive, not injured, sound in mind, just look at the way he talked so bravely a true soldier we are so proud of him," his father said.

"I am sure all your hands and blessings are on his head prayers for his safe return. I pray that he does not get tortured and comes home safe and sound in body and mind," the veteran IAF personnel, whose father was also an air warrior, further said.

He thanked the people for being with the family in this hour of need.

"We draw our strengths from your support and energy," he added.

Meanwhile, well-wishers and political leaders continued to express solidarity with the family of the IAF pilot.

Tamil Nadu Fisheries Minister D Jayakumar was among those who met the family at their suburban residence in Chennai.

Jayakumar lauded the captive IAF officer's parents for their courage adding it was unforgettable.

"Abhinandan's father Varthaman Air Marshall (retired) served the nation during the Kargil war," he said adding the captive officer's grandfather Simhakutty too had served the nation during the second world war in the Air Force.

Local MLA S R Raaja, Lok Sabha MP K N Ramachandran, VIPs, and officials including those from the police visited Varthaman's residence.

For the veteran Air Marshall, who is a recipient of honours including a Param Vishisht Seva Medal, an uncanny similarity between reel and real life now appears to be playing out in his own life.

Just like the 2017 Tamil film "Kaatru Veliyidai," for which Varthaman was a consultant, his son has unfortunately landed in Pakistan's custody.

In the movie, hero Karthi -who essayed the role of an IAF officer- lands in Pakistan after his jet was shot down.

A silver lining is that the hero was reunited later with his family in the movie.

Hashtags like #BringBackAbhinandan, #AbhinandanMyHero, #MeraJawanSabseMajboot trended on microblogging site Twitter seeking Abhinandan's early return.

Actor Karthi tweeted saying, "I'm very fortunate to have met a few of our fighter pilots in #IAF.

It's a true honour to know them and they are men of a different league. I sincerely pray for the safe return of our warriors."

According to a defence release issued in 2011, when Varthaman took charge as the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Eastern Air Command, he was among a few select pilots to hold the distinction of having flown 40 types of aircraft with over 4000 flying hours.

During the Kargil conflict, he was the Chief Operations Officer of Gwalior and he was in command of an operational air base in the western sector at the time of Operation Parakram following the December 13, 2001, terrorist attack on Parliament.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Feb 2019 18:27

From this tweet ---> https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/statu ... 2581704704

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:27

parshuram wrote:
arshyam wrote: And you know this how?
I am quoting retired AF officals over media Sir . No i am not claiming that i am right here

Fair enough. Could you please post a link?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:30

Just to show that not just BRF, but the GoI is serious about this:

IT Ministry asks YouTube to remove video links of IAF pilot - TNIE

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:32

Pakistan makes spoof calls to Rajasthan's Bikaner seeking info on Indian Army - UNI via TNIE

JAIPUR: Residents of Rajasthan's Bikaner were receiving spoof calls from Pakistan seeking information about the Indian Army alongside the international border, amid escalating tensions between New Delhi and Islamabad, sources said.

As per the sources, the calls are being made via internet.

IGP Bikaner Range BL Meena said that police in four districts of the range, Bikaner, Sriganganagar, Churu, Hanumangarh have been advised to be on alert.

People have been cautioned against such calls and advised not to respond.

Meanwhile, residents of Bajju village have spotted a drone which flew in air for 15 minutes. Villagers informed the security agencies following which probe was initiated.

In Bikaner's Khajuwala, a red-coloured balloon was spotted on the border which was visible for eight minutes.

Villagers have intimated the police about it.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 28 Feb 2019 18:35

Thanks, Austin, these two photos are very clear. The earlier India Today photo was very distorted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0fdUG7W0AEu6rD.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0fdVvWWkAAMAlg.jpg

Remarkable that the exact part with serial number was preserved.

We can give a dossier to US on whether US arms is used for War on Terror or War for Terror.

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:36

parshuram wrote:Thanks @brar_w

@Jtull .. Yes My concern as well . Reports same 20 of their jets came inside 10 KM of our border . Our 2 bisons enagaged em {sorry to say ... but look like by chance only}... Where were MKI's .? They are armed with BVR missiles ... should have fired it if they were on patrol

They did not come 10KM inside our border. They broke through the 10KM inside POK treaty limit and they were engaged there.

If PAF jets were engaged inside our territory, the debris will not in POK.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Feb 2019 18:37

Sovereignty Should Be Respected, China Tells Pakistan

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/soverei ... topstories

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:40

Another image floating on the twitter... Not sure what to make out of it.

This says it was ex-Jordian. There is eye-witness video of 3 pilots bailing out.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 28 Feb 2019 18:41

The first name of Air Marshal S Varthaman (Rtd), the father of WingCo Abhinandan Varthaman is "Simhakutty" which literally means "Lion Cub". Must be a long lineage of warriors to have that name.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Feb 2019 18:42

Dileep wrote:The first name of Air Marshal S Varthaman (Rtd), the father of WingCo Abhinandan Varthaman is "Simhakutty" which literally means "Lion Cub". Must be a long lineage of warriors to have that name.

They are a family of soldiers from WW times.

khan · Post by **khan** » 28 Feb 2019 18:42

Austin wrote:Sovereignty Should Be Respected, China Tells Pakistan

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/soverei ... topstories

Very troubling sentence here:

Yesterday, Ms Swaraj had told her counterparts from China and Russia that "India does not wish to see further escalation of the situation. India will continue to act with responsibility and restraint."

Fizzled out?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Feb 2019 18:46

If everything goes on as it is then it looks like a fizzle out. But always trust TSP to come up with some brilliant plan which will explode on their face.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 18:48

A tour-de-force by Jaggi. Worth posting in full, please share the article far and wide and use the MKG quotes within to counter SM propaganda. I am sorry to report that I am already hearing calls for backoff from our side (professionally employed middle-class folk), with an implication that we are the aggressor, since Im-the-dim has offerred to return the Wg Cdr, as though he had any choice. Sometimes I wonder how are we even a free country, if we don't show a resolve against threats for more than a day.

#SayNoToCowardice: Why Gandhi Has Nothing To Offer While Dealing With Jihadi Terror by R Jagannathan, Swarajya

The hashtag #SayNoToWar was one of those trending yesterday (27 February), no doubt promoted by those who would like to divide and weaken the will of the nation in the wake of the Pakistani counter to our pre-emptive strike against a Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist training camp in Balakot, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

You can also read this article in Hindi- #SayNoToCowardice- जिहादी आतंकवाद से लड़ने में गांधी का संदर्भ तर्कहीन

Crocodile tears were also shed for Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, whose MiG-21 landed in Pakistani territory after being crippled. The same group suddenly shifted to whining about Abhinandan’s capture, when the man himself is shown in a video as behaving with dignity and pride. His ancient MiG-21 downed a more modern Pakistan F-16 before it went down in Pakistani territory. Instead of saluting his valour, we are encouraging breast-beating of the most abhorrent type.

The hashtag #SayNoToWar was cleverly chosen, for few people in their right minds will say the opposite, that they want war. It was a blatant attempt to paint those rooting for India as warmongers. The obvious counters to the misleadingly labelled #SayNoToWar include the following: #SayNoToJihad, #SayNoToDhimmitude, or, simply, #SayNoToCowardice. When you are attacked repeatedly by terrorists, and you have been largely restrained and have refused to retaliate for three decades, not doing anything anymore is cowardice, plain and simple. Turning the other cheek is an insult to the hundreds of Indian armed forces personnel, who lost their lives defending our country. Whining in the name of Wing Commander Abhinandan amounts to the same. He will be brought back with honour once this crisis blows over.

The efforts to denigrate India’s pre-emptive strike on the Jaish terror training camp on 26 February saw yet others playing the Pakistani game. They railed against 'keyboard warriors’ and 'warmonger’ TV channels, as if there aren’t 'keyboard peaceniks’ to match those alleged keyboard warriors and warmongers. The same people who dislike the appellation 'Urban Naxal’, or otherwise keep criticising the Indian armed forces, are happy to dismiss those supporting our armed forces in their difficult fight against terrorists by sticking this pejorative label on them.

Another tweet by a journalist exhorted everyone, “Let’s think what Mahatma Gandhi would have said…#SayNoToWar.”

This is silly. Quite apart from the fact that Gandhi himself was never consistent in his pacifism – he won a medal for service to the British in South Africa’s second Boer war – the real point is whether India needs to use only Gandhi as a reference point in everything it does to protect itself from jihadis. Why not quote Shivaji, Netaji Bose, Khudiram Bose, Bhagat Singh and Chandrashekhar Azad in this context? When the enemy is at the door, do you play martial music or sing bhajans?

But it is part of the 'secular’ effort to rubbish nationalists and genuine patriots by quoting Bhagat Singh for his interest in Leninism and Communism, and Netaji for his socialist credentials rather than his nationalist Azad Hind Fauj. No one will mention that Gandhi opposed both of them. These heroes will never be cited for their refusal to accept non-violence as a creed. There is no better way to destroy India’s will to resist jihadi violence than by using Gandhi when he is not relevant here; there is no better way to kill the Indian spirit than to refuse to quote those who took the violent route to achieve freedom.

As for Gandhi, he will never be quoted by the secularists on the three things he consistently believed in: cow protection, Ram Rajya, and non-conversion.

Coming back to non-violence, it isn’t as if even Gandhi advocated it in all situations. Here are two quotes from him that tell us the opposite.

Gandhi said: “I would risk violence a thousand times rather than risk the emasculation of a whole race.”

If India has so far given the jihadis a free run in the name of acting with restraint, we are essentially living out Gandhi’s fears about the “emasculation of a whole race”.

Gandhi also said: “I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence... I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour. But I believe that non-violence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment. Forgiveness adorns a soldier... But abstinence is forgiveness only when there is the power to punish; it is meaningless when it pretends to proceed from a helpless creature...”.

Despite Gandhi’s loud preference for non-violence, if you read the whole text he clearly says that it is only those who can punish who can afford to forgive, not those quivering helplessly in the face of jihadi terror. In the last three decades, when Pakistan adopted the strategy of sending low-cost jihadis to bleed India with a thousand cuts, no phrase described India better than the one Gandhi gave it – of being “a helpless witness to her own dishonour”.

But despite these concessions Gandhi made for permitting some violence in order to avoid cowardice, we need to make a broader point that Gandhi was wrong. Passivity, non-violence and turning the other cheek are about personal morality. You can choose to face death and violence stoically by personally choosing non-violence as your creed. What you cannot do is inflict this choice on an entire nation, reducing it to a blabbering mass of dhimmitude.

Gandhigiri is, in any case, the wrong weapon to use against jihadi terror. It failed Gandhi himself. He backed the Khilafat movement to the hilt, but those who accepted his leadership when the fight was for a failed Caliphate, dumped him when it failed. From the ashes of Khilafat rose the new jihad for a separation and Partition in 1947. We should not fall for it again.

Gandhi was morally and ethically wrong to make his personal predilections the default choice of the nation. We need to discard this in order to rise as a nation.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 28 Feb 2019 18:51

Out of curiosity, will the wing co be subject to any CoI as he continued to chase the bandits and got shot down in enemy territory?

Arun.prabhu · Post by **Arun.prabhu** » 28 Feb 2019 18:54

500 Aim-120c-5 were sold to PAF in 2006. Part of the contract id (/P00028) is missing from the identifier. I think that identifies the particular contract. I didn’t doubt our government but this Is confirmation beyond reasonable doubt for neutral observers.

Can’t verify the serial number, but perhaps someone else can.

A_Gupta wrote:From this tweet ---> https://twitter.com/sneheshphilip/statu ... 2581704704

Sathish_A · Post by **Sathish_A** » 28 Feb 2019 18:57

Decoding the contract number on AMRAAM

http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Co ... actID=3193

Raytheon Co. Missile Systems, Tucson, Ariz., was awarded on 28 December 2005, a $50,739,270 firm fixed price contract modification to provide for 102 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile Air Vehicles under the foreign military sales program for the following countries: Czech Republic, Hungary, Jordan, Malaysia, and Canada. Total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete in July 2008. Headquarters Medium Range Missile Systems Group, Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is the contracting activity (FA8675-05-C-0070/P00016)

Pakis buying Jordan used F-16, probably with all the ammo

https://www.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 422239.ece

Arun.prabhu · Post by **Arun.prabhu** » 28 Feb 2019 19:02

/p00016 was for Malaysia, Jordan, Czech Republic, Hungary and a few others. /p00028 was for Pakistan.

Sathish_A wrote:Decoding the contract number on AMRAAM

http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Co ... actID=3193

Raytheon Co. Missile Systems, Tucson, Ariz., was awarded on 28 December 2005, a $50,739,270 firm fixed price contract modification to provide for 102 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile Air Vehicles under the foreign military sales program for the following countries: Czech Republic, Hungary, Jordan, Malaysia, and Canada. Total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete in July 2008. Headquarters Medium Range Missile Systems Group, Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is the contracting activity (FA8675-05-C-0070/P00016
Pakis buying Jordan used F-16, probably with all the ammo

https://www.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 422239.ece

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:02

khan wrote:
Austin wrote:Sovereignty Should Be Respected, China Tells Pakistan

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/soverei ... topstories
Very troubling sentence here:
Yesterday, Ms Swaraj had told her counterparts from China and Russia that "India does not wish to see further escalation of the situation. India will continue to act with responsibility and restraint."
Fizzled out?

Sir, that statement was made before the Pakis escalated yesterday. This was made late on the 26th if I am not wrong.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:02

Shiv Aroor
‏
Verified account

@ShivAroor
20m20 minutes ago
More
Crazy Cold War scene playing out — IAF sources now say:

PAF F-16D involved in intrusion fired @Raytheon AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM at IAF MiG-21 Bison (Casing found on Indian side of LoC)

Abhinandan’s Bison let loose R-73 before being hit

2 PAF pilots seen punching out of F-16D

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:03

Livefist
‏
Verified account

@livefist
5m5 minutes ago
More
In 15 minutes, the Indian Air Force could put out details — so far released only unofficially — that the PAF-IAF air confrontation over LoC Nowshera yesterday involved an exchange between AMRAAM-armed F-16s and R-73 armed MiG-21 Bisons.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:05

Saurav Jha
‏
Verified account

@SJha1618
5h5 hours ago
More
I really can't see the Americans wanting any more air actions to take place, where F-16 Block 50/52s start getting shot out of the sky by Indian operated 'Russian equipment' . That'll be bad 'optics' after all. Various More American Than American types may also be worried.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 28 Feb 2019 19:05

Confirmation that Pakistani F-16 use P&W engine and not GE https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... _15-80.pdf

khan · Post by **khan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:07

Dilbu wrote:If everything goes on as it is then it looks like a fizzle out. But always trust TSP to come up with some brilliant plan which will explode on their face.

This might be grasping at straws, but that tri-Service briefing could change the narrative by:

(1) Sticking to only explaining prior historical events.
(2) Making the point that returning the pilot is not a big deal. They are just following the rules.
(3) Refusing to engage on next moves.

If Pakistan wants to de-escalate & save face, they can hand over some terrorists.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 28 Feb 2019 19:09

I agree with JayS that in the photo of piece of wreckage, the ribs are part of internal curvature not external. Doesn't seems like the casing of GE turbine. Would parts get so mangled during crash to become inside out? Hard to say that piece of wreckage belongs to Eff-Solah. We need to trust our GoI & IAF sources. I believe they would not say something in haste and blatantly lie like our neighbors. So if they say that a TSP F-16 was brought down...so it was!

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 28 Feb 2019 19:11

tsarkar wrote:Confirmation that Pakistani F-16 use P&W engine and not GE https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... _15-80.pdf

And what about the lot purchased from Jordan ?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 19:12

Press conf going to start soon, please tune in if you are near a TV. Apparently going to be a tri-service conference.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Feb 2019 19:12

It was an indeed an AIM-120C-5 based on Contract FA8675-05-C-0070 printed on the missile. Intended for RSAF and Singapore AF, but how did it end up with the PAF?

http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Co ... actID=3350

Raytheon Co., Tucson, Ariz., is being awarded a $65,772,806 firm-fixed-price contract modification. This action will exercise an option to purchase 123 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAMM) Air Vehicles (AAVs) Air Intercept Missile (AIM)-120C-5 missiles among them: 9 for the USAF and 114 FMS; 51 warranties and foreign military service software configuration management. This effort supports foreign military sales to Singapore and Saudi Arabia. At this time, total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete November 2008. Headquarters Medium Range Missile Systems Group, Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is the contracting activity. (FA8675-05-C-0070/P00026)

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 28 Feb 2019 19:13

press conf in open area! means no images, no projector

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Feb 2019 19:14

They would have got it along with Jordon jets. Which lets me think, AMRAAM probably are programmed with work with specific jets. Jordian jets with Jordaian AMRAAM.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:15

what belongs to RSAF also belongs to PAF no? what are all those Karachi-Jeddah flights for eh?

khan · Post by **khan** » 28 Feb 2019 19:16

abhijitm wrote:press conf in open area! means no images, no projector

Is there a link where cord cutters can see this?

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 28 Feb 2019 19:16

Lalmohan wrote:what belongs to RSAF also belongs to PAF no? what are all those Karachi-Jeddah flights for eh?

+1

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 28 Feb 2019 19:17

why civilian is introducing army officers?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 28 Feb 2019 19:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmutmzNRIx8

Live briefing

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Feb 2019 19:19

IAF officially confirms Mig-21Bison shot PAF F-16 in Aerial Combat , IAF lost one Mig-21

PAF F-16 loss was a twin seater.

PAF targeted military installation but IAF intercept saved the day , PAF bomb fell in Military compound but no damage done.

AMRAAM parts found east of Rajouri

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2019 19:21

AMRAAM usage by PAF confirmed. Source: Air Force spokesperson at the press conf.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 28 Feb 2019 19:21

Austin any new photos like the MiG-21 HUD shot of Pakistani Atlantique? I am out of India and not having access to any TV channels. Ofcourse if Abhinandan shot down the F-16, then the data would be lost with his aircraft.