Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

LakshmanPST
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby LakshmanPST » 28 Jul 2019 17:14

Russia sells Su35s to China, nobody cares...
US gives some support package for F16s to Pak, everybody losing their minds...

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jul 2019 17:32

LakshmanPST wrote:Russia sells Su35s to China, nobody cares...
US gives some support package for F16s to Pak, everybody losing their minds...


Yes they do because those are donations(Baksheesh) vs. sale with their own cash money.

IF porkis had to pay for weapons and running the country they would be bankrupt for now. And why is "massa" pagan gang want to ignore usual stab in the back BIF funding and just compare it with others and justify that it is okay to do that ?

Massa is a declining power and we survived the blunt in 71 and we are stronger now. Let them choose porkies it suits them as they deserve milking and similar stab in the back.

As far as desh is considered this is good because it shows massas true colors to all, peeling off the skin as they say in massa lingo.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Jul 2019 17:51

The lobby Russia sells were being unfair to USA, the truth is we should not be happy whether Russia or USA sells to Pakis or China, but given our options we can do nothing about supplies to China. Nobody is our real friend, we just need to invest in our domestic production till we become important enough.

There is a group of Indians always sympathetic and finding excuses for other countries rather just batting for India.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 28 Jul 2019 17:52

Folks call out US perfidy and someone IS suffering from mirchi lagi woh bhi Andhra waali.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby John » 28 Jul 2019 18:09

Yes they do because those are donations(Baksheesh) vs. sale with their own cash money.

It's one thing to sell weapons other thingto fully transfer tech to China under the table and help china with multiple programs. The amount under the table deals russia has done with china far exceeds the actual reported deals. Ironically if wasn't for those deals Russia (like S-300 tech transfer) would have never been able to fund S-400 so it has helped us, but don't be surprised when China cranks out S-400 in large nos from its factories in next decade.
Last edited by John on 28 Jul 2019 18:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jul 2019 18:13

John wrote:It's one thing to sell weapons other thingto fully transfer tech to China under the table and help china with multiple programs. The amount under the table deals russia has done with china far exceeds the actual reported deals.



Doesn't matter still it is paid vs. funded. Grow up.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby John » 28 Jul 2019 18:15

krishna_krishna wrote:
John wrote:It's one thing to sell weapons other thingto fully transfer tech to China under the table and help china with multiple programs. The amount under the table deals russia has done with china far exceeds the actual reported deals.



Doesn't matter still it is paid vs. funded. Grow up.

May be you should grow up when you are using that as an argument. What are you some angsty teenager? :rotfl:

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Jul 2019 18:20

Prem Kumar wrote:What we should do is have the MEA strongly condemn F-16 support/spares from the U.S and accuse USA of supporting terror. For proof, we need to show them AMRAAM pieces and how it was used against India.

If Trump opens his gutter-mouth about S-400 or Kashmir, we should just tell them to stop supporting terror against a so-called "friendly ally India"

With Jaishankar, I hoped we would go on the offensive. Instead, what we get is a $1B bakshish to USA in the form of a crappy NASAM purchase. Looks like Modi wants to be everyone's friend and won't react unless provoked strongly.

Modi led GOI has also approved purchase of some 24 helis for Navy for $2.4 Billion and we are not likely to ramp down anytime soon.

You are absolutely correct on the last bit. Modi *does* want to be everyone's friend including China's! As far as taking $hit is concerned well India has taken it from a piddi like Maldives under its previous president without a wimper of protest form Modi led BJP government at the controls. This is not a bug it is a feature!

Why I keep hammering this point in multiple posts and in multiple ways is that folks need to accept the ground realities and not get surprised and disillusioned.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby krishna_krishna » 28 Jul 2019 18:30

John wrote:
krishna_krishna wrote:

Doesn't matter still it is paid vs. funded. Grow up.

May be you should grow up when you are using that as an argument. What are you some angsty teenager? :rotfl:


you see bhut jolokia is a very spicy Indian pepper (Considered to be spiciest in the world by ranking orgs in the oou ass)and it has very distinct effect, nothing much to discuss.
Last edited by krishna_krishna on 28 Jul 2019 21:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 28 Jul 2019 18:39

John wrote:The amount under the table deals russia has done with china far exceeds the actual reported deals.


I don't really think that's relevant here, because when it comes to underhanded deals and underhanded tactics AGAINST INDIA, it's well known who leads the pack.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 28 Jul 2019 20:10

So what got your chuddies in the twist exactly about the F16 deal? Please explain.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 28 Jul 2019 20:29

It was interesting to see some indulge in whataboutery when members were discussing the F-16 deal. Wonder why their chaddis went into a twist when Amreeka was criticised- and rightly so.

RakeshJi said it right.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Jul 2019 05:09

stop hiding behind like a coward behind someone elses statement and speak directly. What is it exactly about the deal that got you upset?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 29 Jul 2019 06:11

Well it didn't take long for the true colours to come out.

Sahi bole the RakeshJi, you were absolutely right RakeshJi.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jul 2019 10:39

shyamd wrote:stop hiding behind like a coward behind someone elses statement and speak directly. What is it exactly about the deal that got you upset?


Why is it required, most probably due to extra flying PAF F-16 need to be overhauled to be flight worthy, otherwise they are vulnerable and hence Jihadis will hold back, now the Jihadi airforce will be back to the same capability as on 27 Feb morning.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Jul 2019 12:16

^^ And is IAF scared of the Feb 27 capability? I have not seen any statement ever talk about fear of F16. In fact I’ve hear and read the complete opposite.

It’s universally known Indian armed forces enjoy overwhelming superiority in a conventional war.

You need to understand that this recent US deal with Pak has not upset any balance in any way. IAF continues to enjoy superiority.

Also understand our geography - most of our air conflict will be WVR. These F16s will barely last them 1 week if GOI wanted to destroy in conflict. Availability rates are 65-70%. They don’t have the numbers to sustain beyond a point

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jul 2019 12:28

Saar, US is not scared of Iran or Bashar regime, but they will not allow us to sell arms to these regimes.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby LakshmanPST » 29 Jul 2019 13:02

No one's Chaddi went into a twist...
I'm not supporting USA... I'm just pointing out that USA selling/funding stuff to Pak is not a big deal and they have been doing it for the last 70 years...

USA is known for its duplicity when it comes to terrorism... Every country in the world knows this, but no one will question it... There's simply nothing we can do about it... That duplicity is irrespective of which parties are in power in both India & USA...
-
The way some ppl were reacting, it looked like they expected USA to magically transform overnight & become our ally, and were surprised that it didn't happen... So, I simply pointed out that even Russia (which is perceived to be a relatively better friend of India compared to USA) sells far advanced stuff to China...
-
My intention was not to indulge in whatabouterry, but to give a perspective to the F-16 service deal...

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jul 2019 13:15

That is more rational explanation - that we can do nothing about it and accept it, I agree. But there is a tendency in the Indian public which I see reflected in BRF many times that US is some Utopian society without corruption and discrimination and that it is always India's fault. Sometimes this goes to fanboyism over US equipment while deriding are equipment- that is not warranted and needs to be accepted too.

Indian Media is playing up the part where Paki F-16 launched 5 AMRAAMS at 1 Su-30MKI out of NEZ and have been running down the R-77. That is in addition to 1 missing Mig 21Bison - Wing Commander ABhinandan's wing man.

6 misses for the slammer- no one talks about the failure and violation of peacetime ROE by Pakistan, and what a blow it was for them- a Well planned best case scenario ambush by 4 F-16's against 1 Su 30 flopped. Thats why even though the IAF came on the LOC a few time in March 19- even videos taken inside POK of IAF aircraft were there, the PAF refused to come for the fight.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Jul 2019 15:02

Aditya_V, Still dodging the question and you continue to just make baseless statements. The relationship is far more complex than you think.

LakshmanPST, it is true that our interests in Afghanistan is slightly different to the US but the current move has happened with our consent. We live in a new world where we have agreed an arrangement with the Khans

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Jul 2019 16:09

I am not dodging any questions and stating 5 Amraams missed on 1 SU-30 has been put out by many former IAF officers.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Arun.prabhu » 29 Jul 2019 16:58

I read the article. It's extending the end use monitoring equipment. The contract size is 125 mil USD. About 2 million per plane. I think of it as American spies in Pakistani bases who'll pass on intel if there is war.

As for PAF admitting the F-16 loss, while I admire your pugnacity, Uncle Sam, though he be Pakistan's sugar daddy and Pakistan be sugar daddy's cheapass whore, needs the cheap ass whore in Afghanistan. It's not going to happen for another decade or so.

Aditya_V wrote:Days after Imran Khan's visit, US approves sales to support Pak's F-16 fighter jets

Looks like Im the dim is getting away without accepting F-16 loss, - GOI is loosing the PR battle by not showing the various Amraam debris, H-4 Debris and intelligence officers cannot electronically smuggle 1 video of downed F-16, pilots etc. There would have been many videos taken that day but Pak had an internet blackout and filtered the videos realeased but surely in the months after that we should have been to reach videos shot in those devices.. In fact even the videos of aircraft falling begin 2 separate aircraft and different videos have not been put out.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Jul 2019 20:34

Bajwa and ISI Chief was told to do 2 things by US @ Pentagon:
1) Get Taliban to order permanent ceasefire
2) Get Taliban to talk to Afghan govt (which TSPA has been resisting)

Incidentally (2) is what GOI has asked for.

The support package was a sweetener. He’s also been told there will be dire consequences if he doesn’t achieve both. I’m sure TSPA will do the usual conman activity

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Jul 2019 22:00

Guys I am disappointed that you all indulged in name calling and sniping at each other. In my bad mood days would ban all of you on this page for a week.
Consider all of you are on notice.
Don't do that again.
BRF is platform to discuss Indian interests.
Sniping at each other and name calling takes it away from that requirement.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 29 Jul 2019 22:26

shyamd wrote:Aditya_V, Still dodging the question and you continue to just make baseless statements. The relationship is far more complex than you think.

LakshmanPST, it is true that our interests in Afghanistan is slightly different to the US but the current move has happened with our consent. We live in a new world where we have agreed an arrangement with the Khans


You have been given a warning for engaging in needless put downs of other members who are skeptical of US actions. Please don't be pointlessly aggressive.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 29 Jul 2019 22:39

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You know: I haven't been following this thread or even BRF in general, lately, because of the overtly unprofessional discourse, the insults, the smearing of meanings to intentionally misconstrue or mislead or mis-characterize, etc. Here in Canada, we get so little summer, I wouldn't want this rain cloud raining on my mood. My attitude toward BRF has become: Why bother?

In particular, the pathologically flippant attitude and expressions thereof, the casual racism and it would seem, institutional closed-mindedness; not to mention the preponderance of "time passers" who don't read anything that isn't pointed-out on BRF; and only engage here to prove to others they are correct/right and others are wrong... These sorts of folks are fixed in their opinions and frankly, not worth the effort to change their minds/thinking. Especially because, they're not in authority by any measure. Trying to convince these sorts of anything, is entirely fruitless not to mention pointless.

If on the other hand; Bharat Rakshaks could engage in discussion with the common courtesy that would keep one regularly employed in a going-concern; then we might collectively get somewhere. If OTOH the "discourse" here is exchanged in such a manner that it resembles a food fight in an under-supervised high-school cafeteria somewhere in urban America. [Are there even "food fights" in Indian schools? I can't imagine it; it would seem to be dharmically shameful, but what would I know?]

Now, having read ramana's last post in this thread: I know I haven't been missing anything lo these few sunny and warm weeks now.............

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby kit » 29 Jul 2019 23:23

Arun.prabhu wrote:I read the article. It's extending the end use monitoring equipment. The contract size is 125 mil USD. About 2 million per plane. I think of it as American spies in Pakistani bases who'll pass on intel if there is war.

As for PAF admitting the F-16 loss, while I admire your pugnacity, Uncle Sam, though he be Pakistan's sugar daddy and Pakistan be sugar daddy's cheapass whore, needs the cheap ass whore in Afghanistan. It's not going to happen for another decade or so.

Aditya_V wrote:Days after Imran Khan's visit, US approves sales to support Pak's F-16 fighter jets

Looks like Im the dim is getting away without accepting F-16 loss, - GOI is loosing the PR battle by not showing the various Amraam debris, H-4 Debris and intelligence officers cannot electronically smuggle 1 video of downed F-16, pilots etc. There would have been many videos taken that day but Pak had an internet blackout and filtered the videos realeased but surely in the months after that we should have been to reach videos shot in those devices.. In fact even the videos of aircraft falling begin 2 separate aircraft and different videos have not been put out.


how exactly is the end user agreement going to prevent the PAF F16s flying against India ?.. never thought for even one sec they are going against the Taliban air farce :x

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Jul 2019 01:20

kit it appears the US claimed they were unaware that Paki used the F-16 at Nowshera as there was no proof of it being shot down.
It fell on Pak side and was carted away.
So this End User Agreement gives them verification of where the planes are being flown.
Something like a trackers is being put on those birds.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 30 Jul 2019 04:11

Karan M wrote:You have been given a warning for engaging in needless put downs of other members who are skeptical of US actions. Please don't be pointlessly aggressive.

The “put down” you quoted in the private message is actually part of English dictionary: Link

Apologies if it hurt your sentiments but asking a direct question is not aggressive and it was asked direct because the poster dodged answering it the first time (there was a point to it). Let’s not derail the thread.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 30 Jul 2019 05:06

But, it is interesting to note that the deal is coming upon the request of Immy.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2019 13:23

shyamd wrote:
Karan M wrote:You have been given a warning for engaging in needless put downs of other members who are skeptical of US actions. Please don't be pointlessly aggressive.

The “put down” you quoted in the private message is actually part of English dictionary: Link

Apologies if it hurt your sentiments but asking a direct question is not aggressive and it was asked direct because the poster dodged answering it the first time (there was a point to it). Let’s not derail the thread.


Making insulting comments about other posters and attempting to justify them by stating that these insults exist in the English phrase book, speaks volumes about your lack of discernment and juvenile behavior.

Don't try to act over-smart by making claims that this behavior "hurt" a moderators sentiments and then inform him graciously about not derailing the thread, which was sidetracked by your insults in the first place.

You are being given a second warning and being banned for 2 weeks.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jul 2019 14:44

I think what surprised the IAF (unfortunately) is that PAF treated all previous agreements as paper and decided to Ambush our Su30MKI within our border, that set the ball rolling and WIng Co got his F-16 kill but his downing, capture brought an end to the engagements. Pakis by agreeing to release Wing Co and stretching the process for 3 days made sure things deescalated by got their twitter victories.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 30 Jul 2019 15:10

They have given away their ace in the hole, the marginally greater range of the AMRAAM, and prompted an IAF modernization binge.

$1 Billion of contracts and counting, SPICE, RVV-AE/R73E (rumors insist newer variants), $200 Mn order for Alamos from Russia (not Ukraine, implying newer active variants), Shturm for the Mi-35s and spares.

CAS Dhanoa has now also asked Russia to share Su-30 modernization proposals.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby vishvak » 30 Jul 2019 20:00

prompted an IAF modernization binge

Thankfully IAF has focus set on important things like above, and including balakot air strikes, and avoided giving out anything more than necessary minimum info- thereby completely not indulging in throwing stones in mud (arguing with pakis) or worse jumping in to wrestle with any disinformation etcetera to see who is hit with how much mud i.e. avoided bad<worse<worse-than-that situation.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 31 Jul 2019 22:45

All posts moved to the General Indian Military News & Discussion thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7178&start=240

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 31 Jul 2019 22:46

sudeepj wrote:Thank you for doing the mod work! :-)

Welcome.

@ work and unable to reply at the moment. But I will soon.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 31 Jul 2019 23:20

Aditya_V wrote:Indian Media is playing up the part where Paki F-16 launched 5 AMRAAMS at 1 Su-30MKI out of NEZ and have been running down the R-77. That is in addition to 1 missing Mig 21Bison - Wing Commander ABhinandan's wing man.

Yeah, the R77 bashing was on cue and some on brf have been happy to be a part of that as well. What is hilarious is that one of the first things the IAF did after balakot is buy tons of R Series missiles from Russia.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Bart S » 31 Jul 2019 23:23

Cain Marko wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Indian Media is playing up the part where Paki F-16 launched 5 AMRAAMS at 1 Su-30MKI out of NEZ and have been running down the R-77. That is in addition to 1 missing Mig 21Bison - Wing Commander ABhinandan's wing man.

Yeah, the R77 bashing was on cue and some on brf have been happy to be a part of that as well. What is hilarious is that one of the first things the IAF did after balakot is buy tons of R Series missiles from Russia.


What other choice did they have? It's not that funny if you think about it, with Russia's refusal to integrate other weapons that the IAF wants.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 31 Jul 2019 23:24

Karan M wrote:
$1 Billion of contracts and counting, SPICE, RVV-AE/R73E (rumors insist newer variants), $200 Mn order for Alamos from Russia (not Ukraine, implying newer active variants), Shturm for the Mi-35s and spares.

CAS Dhanoa has now also asked Russia to share Su-30 modernization proposals.


I would be utterly surprised if the new purchases are not distinctly ahead of the c5, whatever version of the r series is being bought. I think the next encounter is going to be truly one-sided. The MKIs will probly light up the sky with a disproportionate response.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 31 Jul 2019 23:33

Bart S wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Yeah, the R77 bashing was on cue and some on brf have been happy to be a part of that as well. What is hilarious is that one of the first things the IAF did after balakot is buy tons of R Series missiles from Russia.


What other choice did they have? It's not that funny if you think about it, with Russia's refusal to integrate other weapons that the IAF wants.

Can you show some sources where there is clarity that Russia won't allow 3rd party weapons integration? Afaik India has total access to the bars, one of the few things we got from the mki deal. The brahmos integration ultimately was done at home, there was no oem support, which was an irritant, but there is enough desi know-how to manage it. Btw, one didn't hear of any russki complaint that India had flouted some IPR clause by integrating the bmos. and integration of lighter missiles would be a lot easier. Mki was the choice platform for Astra tests.

Western missiles like meteor come at a price and integration is even pricier. Perhaps it was simply faster and cheaper to go Russian.


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