IAF to Phase out MIG-25's on May 1st

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Re: RELIC PLANE

Postby Jagan » 14 Apr 2006 00:45

Ved wrote: There's one MiG-25 going, to whoever can pay for its transport from Bareilly (can't be ferried). Any takers? Serious enquiries to ACAS Ops (C&D), Air HQ(VB ).
[/quote]

Wow, it must cost a small fortune to carry a foxbat by truck/plane to any place in south india. I bet institutions in Barielly will have an advantage :)

So I assume this is a fifth airframe (other than the four flyable ones we keep hearing about?)

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Postby Jagan » 14 Apr 2006 00:53

Also credit where credit is due!

This chap posted it almost exactly an year ago..
http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pI ... t_id=69073

IAF to retire Foxbat spy planes next yr
SHIV AROOR
Posted online: Monday, April 25, 2005 at 0133 hours IST


PS: He also mentions five foxbats.

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Postby John Snow » 14 Apr 2006 18:55

JC> thanks I could finally down load
refering to the slide number 21 is that a Froude hydraulic dynamometer on the widget?

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Postby Raj Malhotra » 15 Apr 2006 00:06

With India and US acting all indo-amrekee bhai bhai, I wonder whether we can put in a request for Gobal Hawk?

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Farewell, the MiGnificent flying machine

Postby parikh » 16 Apr 2006 08:43

http://indianexpress.com/sunday/story/2537-3.html

These aircraft can map a country the size of Pakistan in a single-digit number of missions. Frankly, we can push our Foxbats for another 2-3 years, but after three life extensions, it’s prudent to retire them now,


These aircraft were and are the envy of the world. After 25 years of yeoman service, it is now time to let them go. They have served us exceptionally. We have innovated and changed, we must move on now


t is to satellites that the IAF will now turn to enhance its capability once the Foxbats retire. The IAF has already proposed declassification of much of the Foxbat’s tenure. “We have taken up a case to declassify certain things, but it is ultimately up to the higher command. We would like to ultimately ring out to the country an object that has remained under a veil of secrecy,




[quote]Letting the Foxbats go has been deeply emotional. Wing Commander Sanjeev Taliyan speaks for the squadron: “From the height at which we fly, you can see the entire Himalayan range at one go. No aircraft has ever been able to achieve for us what the Foxbat has. We will miss flying them.â€

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Postby Jagan » 16 Apr 2006 10:05

parikh, thanks for the link.

I looked up the epaper report..

http://70.86.150.130/indianexpress/Web/ ... 01_004.jpg

http://70.86.150.130/indianexpress/Web/ ... 02_004.jpg

The above image is of a two seater.

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Postby Jagan » 16 Apr 2006 10:08

The most revealing bit of news in the report is that the MiG25s have been taken over by No.35 Squadron and

102 had been numberplated three years ago! .

Most probably No.35 will get the bisons next?

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Postby Harry » 16 Apr 2006 10:56

Did No.35 retain their MiG-21Ms when the MiG-25Rs were transferred to them?

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Postby Jagan » 16 Apr 2006 19:48

Harry wrote:Did No.35 retain their MiG-21Ms when the MiG-25Rs were transferred to them?


I dont know, but they certainly had MiG21s in 99/2000 when they got their colors. The Sqn gave up its canberra flight in the late 90s (97-98), so they must have replaced that flight with the 25s (while still retaining the MiG21 flight).

I am sure we will know more about this transfer in coming days as the coverage increases.

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Postby Jagan » 17 Apr 2006 21:22

Here is the more detailed report by shiv aroor of indian express

http://www.indianexpress.com/iep/printe ... /2491.html

MiGnificent flying machines

shiv aroor
Posted online: Sunday, April 16, 2006 at 0000 hrs IST

The air force station at Bareilly is like any other airbase in the country. Clean, well maintained, neatly pruned hedges, shining insignias and signs all around, even flowers blooming in the summer heat. Everyone here likes it this way — unobtrusive, quiet, sober, the dust and din of Bareilly town well outside the forbidding gates.
Till now, the same forbidding gates have guarded one of the force’s most abiding secrets. The dog squads of the early 1980s have been replaced by much more effective metal cordons, separating 35 Squadron, codenamed Rapiers, from the rest of the picturesque station. For a good 25 years, the base has guarded a few precious machines that no outsider was ever allowed to see.
Obviously, the machines served the force well. And, finally, the IAF decided that the machines have served enough. So two weeks ahead of the May 1 phase-out deadline, the IAF agreed to ‘declassify’ some of its mysteries. It was the privilege of two Express journalists to be the first inside the IAF’s MiG-25 Foxbat spyplane unit.

After a revelatory three-hour tour of the base, the MiG-25 turns out nothing like what the drawing-room legends have thrown it up to be.
It is a great deal more.
The traditional secrecy lingers, but there is no longer any doubt. Ask anyone, including the intensely passionate base commander Air Commodore Shankar Mani, about whether the Foxbats were hurriedly purchased in 1981 to spy on Pakistan and China, and he will tell you: “They were bought for strategic reconnaissance. That should answer your question.â€
Last edited by Jagan on 01 May 2006 22:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Jagan » 01 May 2006 20:53

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060429/edit.htm#6

Faster, higher, out of reach
The nation says farewell to the MiG-25 Foxbat
by Vijay Mohan




A MiG-25 pilot in his high-altitude suit.
Photos courtesy: IAF publication Touching the Sky


For 25 years it was India’s elusive eye in the sky, keeping a constant watch over the enemy deep inside his own territory and yet remaining beyond his reach. It was the awesome MiG-25, capable of flying too fast and too high to care much about enemy radars, fighters and missiles.

After all those secret missions over Pakistan and China, the MiG-25s are now set to retire. They are at the end of their lifespan, and so prohibitively expensive to maintain and operate. The formal de-commissioning ceremony is scheduled to be held at the Bareilly Air Force Station, where these aircraft are based, on May 1. The present MiG-25 squadron members as well as officers and personnel who had served in the squadron earlier, including those who have retired, would be attending the ceremony.

It is no secret that the MiG-25 flew in hostile airspace as a matter of routine, though, of course, there are no public records to validate this. One incident which lends credence to this is a “sonic boomâ€

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Postby Jagan » 01 May 2006 22:28

http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?acti ... s&id=51554

Air Force bids an emotional farewell to MiG25s

Bareilly: An era came to an end in Indian Air Force history on Monday, when one of its most powerful planes, the MiG25, was phased out.

Presiding over the ceremony tinged with emotion, Air Chief Marshal Shashindra Pal Tyagi, the Chief of Air Staff, and other senior IAF commanders bid farewell to the 35th MiG 25 Squadron based at the Bareilly Air Force Base, putting the lid on 25 years of meritorious service in protecting the Indian skies.

Talking about the Blackbirds and the U2s of the US Air Force that had become redundant, Air Chief Marshal Tyagi said that better technology had to and would take the place of the MiG25s.

Better known as strategic reconnaissance aircrafts the MiG25 aircrafts successfully touched the stratosphere of glory during their 25 years of existence.

"It's according to need. There's no longer any need to fly these planes. This plane had the capability of other things too, besides reconnaissance, like electronic intelligence also. There are two types of satellites. One that flies at heights which have powerful cameras and the others which fly at low orbit which do not have very powerful cameras. For high-level reconnaissance, new cameras have come, which even we possess. Like digital cameras, when the plane flies, the photos taken can be seen down below. This is high-level reconnaissance. At the lower level Jaguar and Mig-27 conduct tactical reconnaissance.

In between all this there are Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) also which also takes photos. There is a complex arrangement from top to bottom; there would be scope for photographs, electronic intelligence and signals intelligence. Amidst all these types og intelligence, there's no requirement of MiG25s," said Air Chief Marshal Tyagi.

Wing Commander S.K.Taliyan carried out the last sortie. Wearing the special suit worn while flying the aircraft, he reported to the Chief of Air Staff after handing over the Form 700, which is the servicing booklet of the aircraft (a closing document) to the Commanding Officer of the squadron, amidst the tune of 'Auld Lang Syne'.

The phasing out ceremony began early morning with parade display of the various components of the aircraft like engine and the fuel tank of the aircraft which can contain five ton fuel which is more than the capacity of a Boeing-737.It was an emotional moment for all those who have been associated with aircraft since its inception on August 25,1981, during the tenure of former Air Chief Marshal Idris Hassan Latif.

"It's a very emotional moment for us. After 25 years of glorious service of touching the stratosphere with glory, it is phasing out today. It is a very deep emotional moment for us," said Wing Commander S.K.Taliyan.

There are only 42 pilots in the Indian Air Force to have flown this plane.

The first batch of pilots to be trained were Wing Commander A.J.Singh, Squadron Leaders D. Lazarus, S.L.Sud, J.S. Grewal, besides Flight Lieutenants R.E.Ketkar and Lt B.S.Khalsa.

"When you fly at those altitudes there's a sudden change in environment. Now, you see the sky as blue, when you go to those heights the sky is dark. You can see the stars during the day-light, you can see the curvature of the earth. Then you suddenly feel you don't belong to this earth, you don't want to come down to land. You want to stay there. There's a distinct feeling of aloofness that you don't belong to this earth," said Air Vice Marshal J.S.Grewal (Retd), one of the pilots of the pioneering batch, which trained in the then Soviet Union.

Master Warrant Officer (MWO) Desraj, the technical maintenance person who received training in the USSR and has served with the aircraft ever since said that he had no words to express his feelings. He was emotional on account of the decommissioning as he had seen the aircraft right from the beginning and had served in it.

Six of the eight MiG25s will be flown to the National Defence Academy, the Air Force Academy, AFS Kalaikunda, AFS Hindan, AFS Palam and AFS Jodhpur to be installed and preserved as heritage pieces to inspire future officers during training. Two were lost in accidents.

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Postby karan » 02 May 2006 01:01

Raj Malhotra wrote:With India and US acting all indo-amrekee bhai bhai, I wonder whether we can put in a request for Gobal Hawk?

Raj
Not gonna happen. Global Hawk is for US, AUS onlee. GBR is the closest of all the allies they get all info they need. Israeli's are not given acces to it either. It is the avionics and range of this damn thing that make it so desirable.
I would say lets get some U-2, It takes off from CAR base, banks right into arabian gulf attains its full height, goes over impure land, cuts over Kashmir into Tibet, lands back in CAR. Completes a full loop.

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Postby Manu » 02 May 2006 08:23

Image
A MIG-25 taxies at the Bareilly Air Force Station after its last ceremonial flight on the completion of the plane's total life of 25 years, in Bareilly, India, Monday, May 1, 2006. The aircraft's role in the Indian Air Force was that of Strategic Reconnaissance and as a long-range high-level interceptor. (AP Photo/Mustafa Quraishi)

Image
Image

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Postby Philbert » 02 May 2006 10:30

The most beautiful piece of machine EVER :cry:

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Postby shiv » 02 May 2006 14:51

Jagan wrote:http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=51554


"When you fly at those altitudes there's a sudden change in environment. Now, you see the sky as blue, when you go to those heights the sky is dark. You can see the stars during the day-light, you can see the curvature of the earth. Then you suddenly feel you don't belong to this earth, you don't want to come down to land. You want to stay there. There's a distinct feeling of aloofness that you don't belong to this earth," said Air Vice Marshal J.S.Grewal (Retd), one of the pilots of the pioneering batch, which trained in the then Soviet Union.


Saala! It was a mistake to retire these aircraft before I got a chance to ride in one.

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Postby shiv » 02 May 2006 14:53

Manu wrote:Image
A MIG-25 taxies at the Bareilly Air Force Station after its last ceremonial flight on the completion of the plane's total life of 25 years, in Bareilly, India, Monday, May 1, 2006. The aircraft's role in the Indian Air Force was that of Strategic Reconnaissance and as a long-range high-level interceptor. (AP Photo/Mustafa Quraishi)


Note that the IAF has retired the MiG 25 but not the Ambassador. :roll:

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Postby Ujjal » 02 May 2006 22:24

So long, old superspy in the sky

Air Marshal (retired) Trevor Osman, who commanded the MiG 25 squadron named Trisonics in the 1980s, says the aircraft flew between 20 to 25 sorties a month. Most of the sorties were across the border.


For the 42 pilots who have flown the MiG 25 since its induction into the IAF in 1981, the farewell today was an emotional and solemn affair. The Trisonics squadron — so called because the long-nosed aircraft with the heavy body is capable of flying in the atmosphere as well as in the stratosphere (just below outer space) — will now convert full time to MiG 21 Bisons, an upgrade of the MiG 21’s air defence fighters that are also due to be phased out.

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Postby Ved » 02 May 2006 22:36

Ujjal wrote:So long, old superspy in the sky

The Trisonics squadron — so called because the long-nosed aircraft with the heavy body is capable of flying in the atmosphere as well as in the stratosphere (just below outer space) —


Actually, its more due to the fact that the ac was capable of Mach 3.

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Postby Raja Bose » 03 May 2006 04:39

aahh....tut...tut Dr.Shiv....bloody bad luck I say....well atleast now you can set your sights on rambha! :mrgreen:

shiv wrote:Saala! It was a mistake to retire these aircraft before I got a chance to ride in one.

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Postby Gerard » 03 May 2006 05:26

will now convert full time to MiG 21 Bisons, an upgrade of the MiG 21’s air defence fighters that are also due to be phased out.


Gawd.. from flying a MiG 25 at the edge of space to a Mig 21?

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Postby Ujjal » 03 May 2006 05:56

Expect 'em to push Bison to it's limits 8)

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Postby Jagan » 04 May 2006 09:32


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Postby Raja Bose » 04 May 2006 10:34

Boss,

That 3rd pic takes the cake! :eek: Considering how small other aircraft look besides the Sukhoi, one can get an idea of how big the MiG-25 really is!

Cant wait to revisit Palam AF museum to see this giant. Hope they will make some space in the public area and not hide it away with the other giants.

This is pic is all set to become my wall paper now! 8)


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Postby Harry » 04 May 2006 15:20

Wow! I hope a full report is underway!

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Postby shiv » 06 May 2006 08:02

Raja Bose wrote:Boss,

That 3rd pic takes the cake! :eek: Considering how small other aircraft look besides the Sukhoi, one can get an idea of how big the MiG-25 really is!

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... temId=3189
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... temId=3191
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... temId=3187
[/quote]

Just compare the intake and exhaust sizes with that of the Su 30 and you can see why this plane could reach 90,000 feet and nearly Mach 3.

Imagine flying over Pakland and laughing your guts out as you take pics of everyone's backyard.

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Postby Philip » 07 May 2006 01:31

What is the replacement? If the Foxbats are being retired,then what is to replace them?Why is there silence on this subject?I've asked this q before.
There was also the Russian offer to replace the Mig-25s with new AWACS busting MIG-31s.We have soem other means of obtaining our surveillance from the air,most probably using satellites.Or perhaps could this be a possible replacement?

http://air.xuexue.net/others/eng/m17.htm

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Postby Austin » 07 May 2006 01:49

Just compare the intake and exhaust sizes with that of the Su 30 and you can see why this plane could reach 90,000 feet


On an operational mission , they flew much higher than that :)

What is the replacement? If the Foxbats are being retired,then what is to replace them?Why is there silence on this subject?I've asked this q before.
There was also the Russian offer to replace the Mig-25s with new AWACS busting MIG-31s


The Mig-31 is a good replacement if one can add SLAR , Comprehensive Internal EW capability , Real time Data Link/Sat DataLink , Self Defence AAM and various Reco Pod.

The M-55/M-17 though could fly high , but are very slow a sitting duck for Long Range SAM and Fighters , One can use it only if one attains full Air Superiority over enemy territory.

It has its advantage over longer loiter capability over a given area

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Postby Ajay K » 07 May 2006 02:03

Folks, do the MIG-25s have gold plated cockpit canopy? (Slealth features of F-16, Night hawk and B-2s).

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0 ... nr=67&tbl=

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Postby Gerard » 07 May 2006 02:25

Stealth? The Mig 25 is from another era.
The Mig 25 is made out of stainless steel. The rivet heads stuck out.
It used vacuum tube electronics.
The intakes are huge (and have corresponding large radar signatures). Its two engines (used on cruise missiles) have enormous thermal signatures.

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Postby Ajay K » 07 May 2006 03:04

Gerard, notice the golden color of cockpit canopy. Any clue why it is looking golden in color?

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Postby Philbert » 07 May 2006 05:11

The Cockpit is tinted doesnt mean its a stealth feature BTW the Mig-25 doesnt need stealth features and as Gerard said they wont be too effective either (if it was a stealth feature i mean)

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Postby shiv » 07 May 2006 07:00

Ajay K wrote:Gerard, notice the golden color of cockpit canopy. Any clue why it is looking golden in color?


Maybe because the plane was priceless? :wink:

But seriously - I think tinted glass is typically to keep out harmful solar radiation.

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Postby asprinzl » 07 May 2006 07:12

Gerard wrote:Stealth? The Mig 25 is from another era.
The Mig 25 is made out of stainless steel. The rivet heads stuck out.
It used vacuum tube electronics.
The intakes are huge (and have corresponding large radar signatures). Its two engines (used on cruise missiles) have enormous thermal signatures.


May I add something to that........when this beast takes off you dont want to be anywhere near it. The engine makes such a thundering roar at just about lift off. At Mach three, the heat is to intense that wear and tear is prohibitive. That is why it had to fly so high up there where the air is much thinner and thus much less air resistense that causes heating. I think it also uses a special fuel to fly at such height due to lack of oxygen up there. All these adds up the costs of operations. The SR-71 grows to three feet longer due to expansion from heat generated by air resistense and I am sure the Foxbat must have experienced somewhat similar metamorphisis.

On the ground, the Blackbird would be leaking fuel because the fuel compartments are not sealed well but while flying at mach 3, the heat cause the parts to expand and thus seal up all gaping holes.

Imagine the kind of mind boggling thinking that had gone into designing and developing these two machines. That too way back in the 60s.
Avram

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Postby ritesh » 07 May 2006 14:43

Can SR-71 travel non-stop through the length of former SU @ supersonic speeds & @ suitable atitiude to evade SU SAMs?

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Postby Mihir » 07 May 2006 14:56

Imagine the kind of mind boggling thinking that had gone into designing and developing these two machines. That too way back in the 60s.
Avram


I remember reading an article about the SR-71 by Kelly Johnson in Reader's Digest (1993, I think). He says that they diesgned the aircraft using a slide-rule because the most sophisticated computer they had was as advanced as the pocket calculators we have today.

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Postby Harry » 07 May 2006 15:12

The secretive nature of the Foxbat seems to be exaggerated. They've been open to civilians at least once in the past. The equipment is not super-sensitive, just the kind of missions they fly. Just 49 engineers for the entire span of their lifetime also seems way too low.

BTW This is not a MiG-25R.

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Postby rsingh » 07 May 2006 15:38

The SR-71 grows to three feet longer due to expansion from heat generated by air resistense and I am sure the Foxbat must have experienced somewhat similar metamorphisis.


A bit too much :?:

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Postby Singha » 07 May 2006 19:29

I figure the effect of UV radiation at 100kft could be painful if not protected by some means.

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Postby m_bose » 07 May 2006 21:22

ritesh wrote:Can SR-71 travel non-stop through the length of former SU @ supersonic speeds & @ suitable atitiude to evade SU SAMs?

Some of the early pilots accounts mention flying over the former SU for photo-recon missions (though they don't mention flying length or breadth of SU) mostly at supersonic speeds throughout the mission and yes, most of the pilots accounts do mention SAMs. Later on, they were fitted with side looking radars, eliminating the need for overflying the target.

Note that the blackbird frame was almost entirely built using titanium which was mostly imported from the former SU (since they were the largest producers of titanium) using a variety of front companies.

Titanium is notoriously hard to machine and shape though. Hence, the Soviets opted for steel alloy for the Mig-25's airframe -- apparently the forming method they used for larger sheets of titanium produced rather brittle plates, so they went with good old nickel steel. Titanium was supposedly used in a few heat critical areas though.


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