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IAF to Phase out MIG-25's on May 1st

Philbert
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IAF to Phase out MIG-25's on May 1st

Postby Philbert » 05 Apr 2006 21:37

IAF spyplanes to be phased out on MAY 1st


WHOS GOING TO REPLACE THIS IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES?

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Postby Jagan » 05 Apr 2006 21:51

Oh goody! one to the Air Force Academy please.... will give me a chance to cover it personally...

Philbert
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Postby Philbert » 05 Apr 2006 22:22

hey jagan do you know if the IAF has any plans of buying anything similar to the Mig-25 say for eg the Mig-31 because after the phasing out they are going to leave a huge void in our recon capability :-?

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Postby gauravs » 05 Apr 2006 22:35

Why not sell them to Indian air enthusiasts????
After taking out the avionics and weapon systems, ofcourse.

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Postby D_Prem » 05 Apr 2006 22:48

I was very fond of this fighter. Kinda sad that its retiring, but then I guess its about time.

Anyways, hope to see them at the AF museum someday.

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Postby rsingh » 05 Apr 2006 22:57

Don't think IAF is phasing them out without replacement.
Anyway here is something to refresh memories
http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/mig25.html

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Postby SaiK » 05 Apr 2006 23:12

perhaps we should refurb and upgrade the mig25s.

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Postby Surya » 06 Apr 2006 00:34

Satellites, UAVs

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Postby VickersB » 06 Apr 2006 00:48

sob, sob, will miss the thundering foxbats over pindi
RIP

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Postby Neeraj B » 06 Apr 2006 01:03

Will surely miss the trisonics. Mig 25 really served its purpose and even more. Not only was it a great recce platform, but also it was a great teaser. A lot of pilots used to "tease" the PAF, and regularly hit 2.8 Mach (Quoting an ex Mig-25 pilot friend of mine). To go past 3 Mach they needed operational clearance and would be reprimanded if they did so.

Satellites are good. What the hec, Google earth does a good job ;-). However Satellites are not good for electronic surveillance. Mig 25 was the best. When the PAF used to see the Mig (on their radars), they used to switch on their SAM batteries. This enabled to find the exact location of such batteries.

I vote for atleast 2 Squadrons of Mig 31. One Sqd for recce and the other sqd to act as a Mini AWACS. I feel it is a force multiplier.

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Postby Rich » 06 Apr 2006 01:39

:( I am actually quite dissapointed by this development. Even with satellite surveillance, I think it is still necessary to maintain at least a minimal level of high altitude aerial surveillance capability.

What if the GOI needs an assessment of a developing situation in Pakistan urgently. Can a spy satellite be tasked to over-fly the target area in less time than the IAF can get a Foxbat over the same area?

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Postby SaiK » 06 Apr 2006 01:46

is it worth to consider the the blackjacks instead? with their latest and improvised drdo integrated versions, of delivery extended brahmos and other air launched long range agnis/pritvis.

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Postby Neeraj B » 06 Apr 2006 01:58

Rich wrote:What if the GOI needs an assessment of a developing situation in Pakistan urgently. Can a spy satellite be tasked to over-fly the target area in less time than the IAF can get a Foxbat over the same area?


Just to let you know, it is not a simple task to go on a Recce mission. based on what I have been told, it is almost a 2 day mission. First the Pilots get orders to fly out to another base. They get briefed there. Then they fly out (after some wait). They never fly out missions out of Bareli. Even the pilots are not aware of the missions in advance. Hence after the de briefing they have to rest for sometime at the new base.

Is it possible to convert the old aircrafts into Pilotless Aircrafts. These aircrafts can fly into the enemy teritory and relay the pics to satellites in real time (Can be Geo-Stationary Sats, which are not good for taking images, but surely can receive signals).

**Disclaimer :- Based on my discussions and interpertations.

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Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2006 02:17

To go past 3 Mach they needed operational clearance and would be reprimanded if they did so.


The Mig-25 cant to a sustain Mach 3 ( like SR-71 ) except for short burst , If the Mig-25 hit Mach 3 and above , their engine would need an immediate replacement .

I would think spares were too hard to come by and it wasnt economical to operate it , hence IAF took a wise decision of phasing out.

In this age its better to invest in Stealthy High Altitude UAV then to rely on a Mach 2.8 fighter with all the risk & embarassment involved if its shot down.

Perhaps IAF will keep one or two of this birds ready ( for operational needs ) on short notice , I dont belive the Men In Blue when they say that they will phase out the Mig-25.

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Postby Cybaru » 06 Apr 2006 03:02

At one point there was active talk of getting new M55 which could fly at 75,000 feet but was subsonic plane and could carry a payload of about 2000 pounds or something like that. The russians wanted 150 odd million for a joint venture.

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Postby Cybaru » 06 Apr 2006 03:06

Here is a pic of that m-55 mystic ..

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/ ... oClock.jpg

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Postby Singha » 06 Apr 2006 06:59

without SR-71/Mig25 type speed and height or stealth, a unarmed UAV/plane will be tackled easily by S-300 class systems. Forget the losers, think of tactical recce over Tibet. our Trisonics must have flown lots of missions over Tibet and Nepal, using the clear conditions to peer deep in red territory.

Israel doesnt have high flyers like Globalhawk, nobody except unkil has this 65000ft ceiling product. Israel can easily purchased Ghawk via US grant if they need to. singapore is getting a few.

what do we do ? I guess new large recon pod mounted on Mirage2000 and Su30 on center pylon is only feasible option. in clean config, they maybe able to climb upto 55000ft and stay there.

The same platform used for DRDO-AEW must be utilized for a JSTARS type GMTI platform with AAR for long loiter. Army needs it urgently to gain information superiority.

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Postby rocky » 06 Apr 2006 07:16

Cybaru wrote:Here is a pic of that m-55 mystic ..

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/ ... oClock.jpg
Ouch! Gonna be interesting landing that thing.

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Postby ldev » 06 Apr 2006 08:13

I believe that they have overflown countries other than Pakistan. Some of these missions had to be cleared at a political level given the sensitivity involved should one of them come down over those countries. None of them ever did. But one pilot did say how his canopy cracked while flying over one of those unnamed countries at 75,000 feet plus. Fortunately he made it back safely.

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Postby Singha » 06 Apr 2006 08:54

its a high risk high reward game this overflight business. if it works you succeed in rubbing the enemys nose and certainly they cant go public with it for loss of face reasons, if it crashes its a major -ve psyops issue.

Ideally we need on-demand tactical iminit upto a depth of around 150km inside the frontline hopefully via side looking cameras. deeper than it has to be frequent revisits by multiple sats in the same or nearby orbital plane.

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Postby B Singh » 06 Apr 2006 09:03

I think we need to maintain a decent aerial recon capability. How about Mig-31 ? Can it do the job if we require it ?

Of course, we could request US to sell us some mothballed SR-71's :)

Anyways, commies must be jumping with joy. India's defence to be weakened on Labour Day.

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Postby Mandeep » 06 Apr 2006 09:04

Rest in Peace the 25s. They've served us well.

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Postby Aditya_M » 06 Apr 2006 09:05

Goodbye, to one of the most awesome aircraft we've ever had the pleasure of seeing in our inventory. Will miss them.

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Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2006 09:15

Man I feel in this thread as if I am attending some ones funeral :lol:

Ladies, Please dont cry phased out or not Mig-25 is here to stay :)

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Postby Ved » 06 Apr 2006 10:22

nbagga wrote: .....and the other sqd to act as a Mini AWACS. I feel it is a force multiplier.


Hows that?

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Postby kantak » 06 Apr 2006 10:50

It would be a good idea if the IAF could preserve a few og the mig -25's .They have been a great asset fot the IAF

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Postby Abhisham » 06 Apr 2006 11:06

The Mig-25's have floogged too many hours on their airframe, it about time they are retired from service, as it is a few frames were down due to maintainence issues. But it would be sad to see a beautiful aircraft go from IAF service.
Mig had recently offered India buy back offer for the Mig-25 and provision of the Mig-31 instead. Is it a rumor? or has this deal been looked seriously into? From as much as i have read Mig-31 is an expensive platform that is both maintainence and fuel hungry. The latest derivative being the Mig-31FE (Mig-31BM) for export from russia. Features Zaslon-M radar with a digital cockpit and some more improved features. It would be great addition for patrolling vast areas not covered by AWACS.

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Postby ritesh » 06 Apr 2006 11:48

What will be the cost of Mig 31 IF IAF gets it? Also if i am not wrong, Mig 31 can carry some/few AAM.

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Postby krishnan » 06 Apr 2006 11:53

UAV and sats are the way to go

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Postby AdiRam » 06 Apr 2006 13:36

I think for one more time as a farewell they should create sonic booms over Pak-territory, but this time with the entire fleet 8)

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Postby Aditya G » 06 Apr 2006 14:32

The Canberras are still around, so we are not loosing manned recce yet.

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Postby Philbert » 06 Apr 2006 14:41

Aditya G wrote:The Canberras are still around, so we are not loosing manned recce yet.


yea thats true but if the Canberras go over border for recon they are at greater risk than the Foxbats

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Postby Sumeet » 06 Apr 2006 20:29

Mandeep,
i am not able to send a reply to your mail.

each time i reply, the mail returns to my account saying:
"Remote host said: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable
Giving up on 65.54.244.8."

I will try sometime later today. Just wanted to let you know.

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Postby Cybaru » 06 Apr 2006 20:41

How far do we need to go in Spookystan to really spy em on ??

With a decent SLAR in place, any intrusion needs to be withing 100 Kms or the border to almost get a full scan. Damn, the country is perfectly contoured to be spyed upon. Great length wise and not wide enough to be a hide anything useful.

M-55 type platforms might be okay to see quite deep into their territory on a routine basis without needing to cross any international borders but still being able to see/scan as deep as 120-130 Kms into enemy territory on demand. It might be possible to run a few scans daily from afghan side as well.

For that ocassional deep recce requirements where one really needs to see more than 120 Kms in the country, a phalcon and two MKI combo might be enough for a few minutes of intrusion. Phalcon to direct/control the MKI away from any emerging threats and wingman to shoot anyone off just in case threats arrive without evasive action being possible.

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Postby JaiS » 06 Apr 2006 22:02

One more boom please. :(

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Postby Shankar » 06 Apr 2006 22:48

with the imminent induction of phalcons the mig 25s have lost the primary reason for incorporation into iaf -namely realtime photo recon of pakistan border and air defense around cities .The first job will done much better by the phalcon expected by next year end and the second by high resolution satelite constellation quickly being put up from radar sat to ocean sat to cartsats we will not loose any real time intel advantage .The phasing out process itself will take some time and the aircrafts will not be sold in scrap yard for sure it will stay in reserve for few more years (may be configured for a decisive deep penetration quick acting strategic strike ??)

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Postby Neeraj B » 06 Apr 2006 23:52

Shankar wrote:with the imminent induction of phalcons the mig 25s have lost the primary reason for incorporation into iaf -namely realtime photo recon of pakistan border and air defense around cities .The first job will done much better by the phalcon expected by next year end and the second by high resolution satelite constellation quickly being put up from radar sat to ocean sat to cartsats we will not loose any real time intel advantage .The phasing out process itself will take some time and the aircrafts will not be sold in scrap yard for sure it will stay in reserve for few more years (may be configured for a decisive deep penetration quick acting strategic strike ??)


Shankar, MIG 25s were not inducted for Air Defense around Cities and definitely not for real time images. They were inducted for stretigic recon, that includes, but is not limited to, taking images, electronic recon and locating enemy SAM batteries.

Phalcons will not provide us with real time images. Or electronic survillance deep in enemy teritory. Our (limited) constillation of sats can provide imagery (again, how much real time it is we don't know).

We would definitely need some deep penetration platform. Options are UAV (Global Hawk), Mig 31, M-55, SR-71. I don't think the "conventional" UAVs from isreal will do the trick.
So out of the possible platforms, Mig 31 suites the best (other are not even on the plate, so forget it). As I mentioned earlier. Get two Squardons. 1 for recon and the other for Interception/Mini AWACs/Force Multiplier

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A QUERY

Postby member_8197 » 07 Apr 2006 01:35

I would like to know if the Indian Air Force gives away its old aircraft to educational institutions who are ready to not only provide a resting space but will also look after them honourably.

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Re: A QUERY

Postby Jagan » 07 Apr 2006 01:40

Dominic Crasto wrote:I would like to know if the Indian Air Force gives away its old aircraft to educational institutions who are ready to not only provide a resting space but will also look after them honourably.


The IAF does do that from time to time. Couple of years ago, an Mi-8 was given to PEC, Chandigarh. Even before that, a Kiran was given away to an Engineering College in Coimbatore.

There are Gnats and Hunters on display at various schools and colleges around the country.

But if you are looking at a Foxbat, then forget it... there are only four and the IAF will surely reserve them for their own Institutions / Formations.

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Postby JCage » 07 Apr 2006 01:51

Shankar wrote:with the imminent induction of phalcons the mig 25s have lost the primary reason for incorporation into iaf -namely realtime photo recon of pakistan border and air defense around cities .The first job will done much better by the phalcon expected by next year end and the second by high resolution satelite constellation quickly being put up from radar sat to ocean sat to cartsats we will not loose any real time intel advantage .The phasing out process itself will take some time and the aircrafts will not be sold in scrap yard for sure it will stay in reserve for few more years (may be configured for a decisive deep penetration quick acting strategic strike ??)


:rotfl:

Air defense?

Decisive deep penetration quick strike?

Please limit your imagination.


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