Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Bishwa » 14 Feb 2002 21:53

dsandhu,
The photo is of Anantnag in south kashmir.
That should be victor force area. This chap is the Kilo Commander

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby dsandhu » 15 Feb 2002 21:36

Bishwa
Thanks for the clarifications. These days I am mixing the victor and kilo up. Time to refreh my J & K Geography :roll:

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Pennathur » 15 Feb 2002 21:47

I don't remember the name. He is the officer (was Colonel then) who along with MEA spokesman Jassal IFS (sorry don't remeber this name too) used to brief the press every evening (covered on TV) during the Kargil war in 1999.<p>Our armed forces is no place for the uniformed-men-in-dress-only. See here - a spokesman; very articulate - yesterday wielded a pen and today kicks a**. Jai Jawan!!

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby dsandhu » 15 Feb 2002 22:19

Do you mean Brig. Bikram Singh?

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Riza Zaman » 15 Feb 2002 23:13

Was he the one (Bikram Singh) badly wounded in J&K?

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Y I Patel » 20 Feb 2002 01:19

Nakul<p>Congratulations on a fantastic site! You have a goldmine of information on searving and retired brass, in all three services. Truly awsome effort, hope you keep it up.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Guest » 20 Feb 2002 05:24

Thanks Vikram, I am working on a new section involving Armed Forces personnel who have made it BIG after retirement eg Politics, Ambassadors.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Sree » 20 Feb 2002 12:59

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Riza Zaman:
Was he the one (Bikram Singh) badly wounded in J&K?<hr></blockquote><p>I wouldn't recognise Brig Bikram Singh, but the second medal ribbon in the Tribune photo certainly looks as though it might be the Wound Medal / Ahat Medal (single blood-red stripe against a white background). I'm squinting at a rather small image, and my knowledge of the newer medals is pretty thin, so I could be wrong!

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Babui » 20 Feb 2002 17:39

This is interesting. I had no idea the IA gave out the equivalent of "Purple Hearts". Are we having 'medal inflation' in the army ?

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby dsandhu » 20 Feb 2002 19:47

Babui<p> The wound medal is a good thing because this is one of the few medals you get without any of the giri's ( chamcha or babu). It was started in the 1980's but is back dated regarding the awards. You can get the wound medal both during war and CI operations. Its like a red cross flag. The middle strip is red surrounded on either side by white strips.<p>JAI JAWAN

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Jagan » 20 Feb 2002 21:35

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Babui:
This is interesting. I had no idea the IA gave out the equivalent of "Purple Hearts". Are we having 'medal inflation' in the army ?<hr></blockquote><p>I Would not put the Wound medal in that category. Its essential and is in most cases more respected than the "Service Medals" like PVSM etc.. the only catch is it cannot be added to the list of decorations at the end of one's name. so we never have an idea as to who has and who doesn't till we actually see one.<p>Incidentally let me share one of my approaches to strike up conversations with uniformed strangers. If these chaps have either the wound medal (Easily recognisable with its red stripe against the white background) or the Videsh Seva Medal (Blue ribbon with six? thin white stripes running verticle) I simply ask them where they were wounded ..or which country they visited...see thier reaction at some civilian recognising their medal..thier eyes usually light up and they just open up in thier conversation.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Babui » 20 Feb 2002 22:23

dsandhu and Jagan - I guess my deeper concern is how the Wound Medal is awarded. Based on books I've read (specially during the Vietnam War), the Purple Heart became almost a joke. It was awarded for the most minor cuts and thus became much cheapened (mind you - I've met vets who wear it with pride).
My fear is that the Wound Medal will become a joke like the Purple Heart - specially in a war situation. Remember, how medals were being handed out during the IPKF campaign - sometimes for deeds that were not done. Actually, it happened in '65 and '71 too.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Jagan » 20 Feb 2002 23:12


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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Sree » 21 Feb 2002 12:21

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Babui:
Based on books I've read (specially during the Vietnam War), the Purple Heart became almost a joke. It was awarded for the most minor cuts and thus became much cheapened ... My fear is that the Wound Medal will become a joke like the Purple Heart<hr></blockquote><p>First of all, I think we have to accept that any system of reward and recognition has flaws. (Think of the evaluation systems in force in any of the educational establishments or employers we work for!)<p>Having said that, I think India's system for awarding decorations (I will come to the Wound Medal particularly in a moment) is superior to some -- and I think it is certainly superior to that of the US armed forces. The Americans hand out all kinds of medals for all kinds of actions -- described, during WW2 by some of their allies, as "one medal for travelling from Point A to Point B, and another for travelling back from Point B to Point A", or words to that effect. And their system is just as susceptible to interference by the Congressman from the soldier's home district, or to influence by godfathers in headquarters, as any other.<p>As a result American servicemen who had straightforward but undistinguished service records during WW2 often emerged with two or three rows of decorations -- while it was perfectly possible for a British serviceman with a much more spectacular record to emerge with one row (eg one of DSC / MC / DFC plus campaign medal plus victory medal). This actually caused some resentment and frictions between the Americans and the British, during and immediately after WW2.<p>During the Viet Nam war, it was not unusual for US servicemen to return from a two- or three-year tour with something like 40 (!!) decorations.<p>So yes, some American decorations are cheap. This is not to take away anything from the "serious" American decorations, such as the Medal of Honour, for which there are stringent requirements and procedures that have to be completed.<p>Finally, about our Wound Medal -- most armed services recognise wounds, one way or another. The Americans have the Purple Heart; the British used to have what they called the Wound Stripe; the Germans used to have a Wound Badge (which assumed different colours for multiple wounds). The Indian Wound Medal is as good a way of recognising blood spilt as any other; and there are some real criteria that have to be satisfied -- don't quote me on this, but I think they are along the lines of, The wound must be sustained as a direct result of enemy action; and The awardee must have been admitted to a Field Hospital or been evacuated because of the wound. I don't think someone who cuts his finger on a can-opener in a tent would receive it.<p>And as Jagan says it almost always gives you a marvellous opening ... !

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby ASPuar » 21 Feb 2002 12:49

I dont think the officer who's picture mr. sandhu posted is a general. ive sen him on TV i think hes the northern command spokesman. Hes a full colonel. Cant remember his name.<p>Postnote: My fault, I didnt see his headgear insignia. Hes a general officer, or at least a brigadier. Yeah i think its Vikram Singh, though hemay have been promoted.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby dsandhu » 21 Feb 2002 17:45

Babui
I am not sure how the wound medal is awarded or even if one gets a second or third one like the Purple Heart., but even other security forces like BSF, IPBF, CRPF can get them too for wounds sustained during internal security.<p>In the early 90's I talked with a number of Jawans from Garhwal Rifles and Punjab Regiment and these NCO's and other ranks were all in the favour of the wound medal and as Jagan has written their eyes lit up if you pointed to the wound medal of a jawans chest.<p>The british used to have medal like good conduct etc for just NCO's and other ranks, we followed the british awards but the dhotiwalas and the babus eliminated the medals for these poor souls and only created medal like the VSM for the Sahibs.<p>You are quite right about the ways some of these medal are awarded even the gallantry ones ir to Maj. Sherikent of GR in 1962 who won a MVC for "gallantry" without being involved in any action or the Subedar of 2 Rajputs who won the VRC even when he abandoned the platoon position where the rest of his men died.<p>ASPAUR<p>Bikram Singh was promoted to a Brig soon after the Kargil war and he was a RR Sector commander. His jeep was ambushed and he was baldly wounded.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby member_3924 » 23 Feb 2002 01:34

What happened to Lt Gen Kapil Vij, who was shifted from the 2nd strike corps? There has been no further news of him? Any idea where he has been posted to?

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Vick » 04 Mar 2002 22:59

New defence set-up in place

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Articleshow.asp?art_id=2796868

Vikram, can you give more info on the importance of these appointments? Thanks.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Y I Patel » 05 Mar 2002 00:20

The IDS posts are in place, but we still don't know how they will interact with existing A/AF/N posts. Still, some very interesting developments have taken place.

There are five DCDS posts: Ops, Intel, DOT, FORTAN, and Strat Command. Two AF,two navy, and one army lt gen equivalents have been appointed. This is big - the expectation was that army would be a predominant rather than an equal partner, but it has turned out to be the latter. On the other hand, AF has lost its monopoly over strat comd, since the post will rotate. Navy has made out like a bandit - for a service that has long been ignored in strategic calculations, having equal representation at the top table must be a heady development. Given the professional and progressive attitude of IN, this is an upgradation richly deserved.

There are big unanswered questions, such as the relationship between DCIDS ops and DGMO/equivalents. Will DCIDS (ops) preside over the ops officers from individual services? Lt Gen Chahal's appt to DGMO may indicate this to be the case, since his app certainly lowered the DGMO post from one occupied by a PSO to one occupied by a freshly promoted LtGen. Also, how will the VCOAS, VCAS, and VCNS responsibilities be affected by the newly raised posts? If anyone knows, please enlighten.

Finally, for the record, some of the officers who seem to have been involved with the planning and implementation of IDS are: LtGen Pankaj Joshi, VAdm Madanjit Singh, LtGen BM Kapur, and MajGen SC Chopra. Of course, many more were involved. But these are the ones who got identified.

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Re: Rising Star: Maj. Gen. Dalbir Singh AVSM, VrC, VSM

Postby Naidu » 05 Mar 2002 18:50

I guess this thread is evolving into the one tracking the progress of CDS structure. So here's the news of one more piece in the jigsaw puzzle:

Defence Intelligence Agency becomes operational

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/050302/dLNAT60.asp

It is a PTI report, so other news sources might carry this report as well. Some interesting facts:

- The first Director General is Lt. Gen. Kamal Davar; his deputy is Air Marshal S. C. Malhan. The DG reports to the CDS and the Defence Minister.

- The Defence forces will be allowed to raise and maintain their own intelligence network(s) (not just during 'times of conflict' as currently). Previously they were dependent on the civilian intelligence orgs for input. Also, they will be allowed to monitor terrorist orgs within the country.

- This will be a integrated org with the intel
units of the IA, IAF and IN reporting to them. They will also be processing satellite and other raw inputs.


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