Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

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Re: Taking the liberty to answer

Postby Airavat » 17 Sep 2007 04:33

parshu wrote:
ParGha wrote:SBajwa,

What was the ethnic make up of the Mughal troops garrisoning Punjab at the end of Mughal Era? Punjabi Muslims were not generally recruited into the Mughal Army


may I take a shot at answering?

1. Large number of rajputs, mostly converts....the cricketer Vikram Rathore and the Khalistani Jagjit Singh Chohan are examples of surviving Rajput Punjabis on our side


Parshu,

Bajwa's description of the Mughal forces is more accurate since ParGha asked about the composition at the end of the Mughal era in Punjab. Rajputs had ceased to be a major part of the Mughal armies as early as Aurangzeb's time.

As for Punjabi Muslims claiming Rajput ancestry, this claim is doubtful, mostly used for self-glorification. Even Jinnah, who we all know was a Shia Bohra, once tried to claim that his ancestors were "Rajputs".

Punjab has a large population of Jutts, Gujjars, Ranghars, etc....during British rule many of these started claiming Rajput ancestry for self-glorification.

As you noted there are very few Rajputs in our Punjab, the same is true for Brahmins. If "large numbers" of the PMs claim Rajput ancestry why don't an equally large number claim Brahmin ancestry? For the simple reason that Rajputs represented heroism, royalty, an ancient lineage, and it was "cool" in those days to claim descent from them.

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Postby Shyam_K » 17 Sep 2007 05:22

All this discussion of Rajputs and other "martial races" makes me wonder why most people know only about the nothern "martial races " and are not aware of the "martial races" of southern india.

Nairs for instance have been a martial class from early indian history, creating one of the oldest martial arts (Kalaripayattu), making up the armys of the Chera kingdom, including forming suicide squads against invading Cholas. The oldest continously serving unit of the Indian army is the 9th Battalion of the Madras Regiment, which directly traces its origin to the Travancore Nair Brigade, with over 300 years of service.

Similarly Thevars formed the original core of the Madras regiment.

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Postby Airavat » 18 Sep 2007 02:24

Rahul M wrote:Airavat, others could you give me a link/source where I can find some drawings/descriptions of ancient Indian cities like pataliputra ??
I'm talking mostly about the architechture and construction style that could be found in those cities around the time of Chandragupta.
I know such details are hard to come by but I really need this.

even educated guessworks would be much appreciated.

TIA.


Rahul,

Check out this depiction of an ancient Prasada (palace):

Image

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Postby Lalmohan » 18 Sep 2007 11:40

with all the advances in CGI in movies - Troy, Lord of the Rings, et al., it is about time we had an authentic Indian historical military movie on an epic scale... (not just DD Mahabharata!)

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Postby ParGha » 18 Sep 2007 18:39

Shyam_K wrote:All this discussion of Rajputs and other "martial races" makes me wonder why most people know only about the nothern "martial races " and are not aware of the "martial races" of southern india.


Shyam_K,

If the British Raj had been threatened by the Dutch Fleet lurking around Ceylon or Indonesia, then you can bet we would all be quite keenly aware of the "Maritime Races" of (mainly southern) India! As it turned out, it was the Russian Cossacks who threatened India, hence the prominence of these records. Indians can just let temples, palaces, royal dynasties of Bali, Thailand and Cambodia speak for the martial and martime powers of our countrymen from the South.

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Postby Lkawamoto » 18 Sep 2007 19:07

Shyam_K wrote:All this discussion of Rajputs and other "martial races" makes me wonder why most people know only about the nothern "martial races " and are not aware of the "martial races" of southern india.

Nairs for instance have been a martial class from early indian history, creating one of the oldest martial arts (Kalaripayattu), making up the armys of the Chera kingdom, including forming suicide squads against invading Cholas. The oldest continously serving unit of the Indian army is the 9th Battalion of the Madras Regiment, which directly traces its origin to the Travancore Nair Brigade, with over 300 years of service.

Similarly Thevars formed the original core of the Madras regiment.


whoever made up this term "martial race".

i think there could be a martial class based on lifestyle, codes of conduct, etc

but there is no proven gene or blood type of bone structure that defines a "martial race"

the samurai's of japan are an example of martial class, (not martial race),
they became samurai by their training and exploits, not by their genes and lineage (even though samurai's son was more likely to be samurai). at one period the samurai were without work and had to resort to begging and other menial jobs

it is true that some indian empires extended to cambodia and malaysia, this was due to a king extending his territory, not simply because his domain was inhabited by martial race of "nairs"

fights, battles, and warfare is conducted by training, not simply those who are born into martial races. for example, gurkha, mahar, maratha regiments have been as effective as punjab regiment (although there is much amalgamation in recruits today)

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Postby abhischekcc » 18 Sep 2007 19:18

The term martial race was invented by the British.

It was used for people who thought that dieing for the British was the height of civilised behaviour.

It is a honorific term for 'sucker'.

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Postby Rahul M » 19 Sep 2007 16:40

airavat, thanks a lot for that pic. could you provide any comments about the pic, esp which age it depicts, or better still, whose. and where was the stone work found ??


I also have a few specific questions :

were shoes/slippers worn by the common man in the maurya age, if so, how did it differ from
those of noblity ??
any idea of dresses ??

TIA.

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Postby Nirantar » 20 Sep 2007 00:59

I hope I have not dropped in out of the way. But can somebody please direct me to the web-links stating the first hand and detailed account of various ancient (400 BC-1900AD) battles?

My 2 ikke: The detailed narration of Battle of Panipat-3, the guy who witnessed it. Perhaps, the few bits have already been posted by some member.

http://ia301230.us.archive.org//load_dj ... nipat.djvu

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Postby ramana » 20 Sep 2007 01:12

RahulM, Most of your questions are answered by the book 'Ancient Indian Costume' by Roshan Alkazi, published by NBT New Delhi. However its out of print and have been unable to get hold of it. I even sent some famous Delhites looking for it!

On IF there is a thread on tis topic called India Dress style.

Page three of Indian dress Styles on India Forum

The website www.4to40.com has some of the excerpts from Mrs. Alkazi's book. BTW she is wife of the famous painter Alkazi of New Delhi.

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Postby ramana » 20 Sep 2007 01:39

Nirantar, Good find. Wonder what Airavat thinks of it.

Try this site.

http://2020ok.com/4895.htm

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Postby Rahul M » 20 Sep 2007 01:52

thanks a lot ramana.

I think you guys owe me an explanation why I'm suddenly asking all these small details about ancient India !!

well, let's say that frustrated by the lack of a sense of belonging to the wonder that is India among people of my gen and also younger ones, I felt like doing something about it.

our gen has already turned into a wannabe yank nutcase; if we are to avoid the same for the next gen, who I presume are at even graver risk than we were (due to the larger penetration of net and sat TV that is happening) they need to be provided some alternative world view.

that is to say some psy-ops relevant medium which can be understood and liked by kids,
and hopefully also by some adults.
in such a role, what can be better than a comics which would deliver the messages in a subtle yet effective way ??

Along with a friend of mine, who happens to be pretty deft with the brush, I've started out
a comics set in the early Mauryan era. I intend to keep the historical facts as correct as
possible, which is why I've been asking so many questions !

wish me luck, fellow BRFites !!

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Postby ramana » 20 Sep 2007 01:58

Good. More power to you. After the initial books get a good graphics station and start producing digital movies for downloads of the books.

The Mauryan era is my favourite for it is the first historical empire of India which still has its impacts on modern India- political, adminsitrative and economy. If you see Alkazi's book you can see glimpses of the jewellery that has continued since then. Recall the silver waistband in Omkara!

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Postby Rahul M » 20 Sep 2007 02:35

my dad being in the wbcs, some of his cronies are history guys and He has managed to get hold of an excellent out of print copy of hindu and buddhist architecture by a brit, published in the 40's.
it seems since then nobody in indep India has thought of giving artist's impressions of the grand palaces and courts of the Mauryan era.
our depiction in a comic book is probably going to be the first such thing !!
says something about our historians and departments. ASI finds time to crow about ram setu, but even the search function in their site does not work.
I think it should be made mandatory for such organisations to maintain archives of all their publications. that way at least some of the money spent by them would be put to good use.

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Postby ramana » 20 Sep 2007 02:46

Whats the title of the book and who is the author? Wonder if the ACK series had used some of the maerial?

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Postby Nirantar » 20 Sep 2007 03:10

Thanks Ramana.

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Postby Airavat » 20 Sep 2007 03:46

Nirantar wrote:I hope I have not dropped in out of the way. But can somebody please direct me to the web-links stating the first hand and detailed account of various ancient (400 BC-1900AD) battles?

My 2 ikke: The detailed narration of Battle of Panipat-3, the guy who witnessed it. Perhaps, the few bits have already been posted by some member.

http://ia301230.us.archive.org//load_dj ... nipat.djvu


This is the best original source for the Third Battle of Panipat. The author, Kashiraj Shiv Rao Pandit, was a Maharashtrian Brahmin in the service of the Nawab of Awadh. Because of this unique circumstance he could get information on both sides more accurately than was possible for any other person. Moreover Kashiraj was also used as a mediator between his master and the Bhau.

Kashiraj wrote his work in 1780 and a few mistakes creep into his narration:

1) The two armies stood facing each other on a north-south axis and not east-west as Kashiraj writes.

2) The Abdali army plundered the Maratha camp the next day of the battle and not that same night. This was due to Ahmad Shah's fear that the retreating Marathas would regroup and attack his soldiers while they were busy plundering.

3) Najib khan did not make a flank attack on the Bhau, but advanced towards Jankoji and pushed him into the center at the end of the battle.

But the biggest deficiency in Kashiraj's narration is that he did not have access to the correspondence between the Bhau and the Peshwa, or between the Bhau and Govind Ballal.

So Kashiraj merely repeats the gossip that the Bhau was arrogant, that he insulted Malhar Holkar and Suraj Mal, and that the Peshwa had "promised" the Bhau that he was coming up from the south so that the two Maratha armies could squeeze Abdali between them.

The original letters printed in VK Rajwade's Sadhanen and GS Sardesai's Selections from the Peshwa Daftar, show that neither of these was true.

But as a description of the battle itself the work is priceless.

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Postby Airavat » 20 Sep 2007 05:12

Rahul M wrote:airavat, thanks a lot for that pic. could you provide any comments about the pic, esp which age it depicts, or better still, whose. and where was the stone work found ??


I also have a few specific questions :

were shoes/slippers worn by the common man in the maurya age, if so, how did it differ from
those of noblity ??
any idea of dresses ??

TIA.


Shoes:

Shoes in the Maurya age were made of leather, painted in various colors, had several inner linings, and were adorned with the skins of various animals. Shoes made of wool were also known!

There were also boots pointed with horns of rams and goats, sewn with scorpions tails or peacock feathers.

Boots, shoes, and slippers were sometimes given extra thickness to increase the height of the wearer.

Footwwear of the wealthy was further adorned with gold, silver, pearls, crystal, etc.

Shoes and slippers of the common folk were made of wood, or from the leaves of the date-palm, or even from certain grasses!


As Raman said the best info can be gleaned from offline books.

For a visual depiction see the cave paintings and sculptures of Ajanta, which are roughly speaking from that age.

Also the 90s television serial "Chanakya" made an honest attempt to reproduce the dress, ornaments, architecture, towns and forts of that age.

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Postby Rahul M » 20 Sep 2007 12:57

really thanks a lot to both you and ramana !!

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Postby Rahul M » 21 Sep 2007 03:13

ramana, the book is:

Indian Architecture (Hindu & Buddhist Periods) by Percy Brown (ex-principal govt art college cal and curator of Victoria museum at the time).

publisher D.B Taraporevala & Sons.

has some 374 illustrations including some depictions of ancient Indian cities adapted from reliefs. especially the one of kusinagara is a must see for any indian.

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Postby bala » 21 Sep 2007 03:59

It was hidden in a house in Udaipurwa village for melting..

Archaeologists discover 4,000-year-old copper hoard

[quote]Lucknow: Archaeologists have discovered a copper hoard believed to be nearly 4,000-years-old near a village in Auraiya district of Uttar Pradesh, raising hopes of its radiocarbon dating and understanding the culture and chronology of that period.

“The hoard, weighing about 25 kilograms and consisting of various types of artifacts, including a barbed spearhead, an anthropomorphic figure, flat shouldered axes, chisels and rings, was discovered quite accidentally,â€

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Postby SBajwa » 22 Sep 2007 00:26

Something about Rajputs in Punjab.

After the martyrdom of Raja Pithora (Prithviraj Chauhan) many of his generals and cousins didn't returned back to Ajmer (or delhi) rather stayed all over Punjab. There are many villages in village who trace their lineage all the way to these generals.

The very very famous such general of Raja Pithora that was ashamed and didn't risk going back to Ajmer and stayed in Punjab close to Shaikhupura (which was at that time named Virkgarh i.e. fort of the Virk Jutts).

This general converted to Islam and thus got Zamindari of the many villages around the city he created "Rai Bhoi di Talwandi"

Rai Bhoi di Talwandi is the city where later Sri Guru Nanak dev ji were born and now this City is called "Nankana Sahib".

Once of the descendants of Rai Bhoi (Hindu Rajput who converted to Islam) was instrumental in realizing the spirituality of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji and supported Sri Guru Nanak dev ji in his spiritual endeavours and singing Bhajans.

Another... Rajput area that comes to mind is the Patiala and Bhatinda area!! Bhatinda city was created by the Bhatti Rajputs and their fort still exists. They fought against Ghouri too.

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Postby Airavat » 22 Sep 2007 03:48

Very limited numbers.

The point is if large numbers of "Rajputs" were converted in West Punjab, there would be an equally large number of converts on this side (up to Delhi). But there are not...

It is more accurate to believe that in the first sweep of Islamic invasions large numbers of warrior Rajputs were slaughtered en masse, leaving very few to be converted in the lands up to Delhi.

Rajput resistance hardened in the region of Rajasthan-MP-UP and prevented further slaughter of population or conversions. Within this area the only converts from Rajputs are the Qaimkhanis...very limited numbers.

Now if the Punjabi Muslims were really "Rajputs" converted by sufis :lol: this claim would have been noted by the Mughal Empire. Check out these Mughal documents listing castes present in the Punjab of those times.

Punjab castes

Punjab castes2

The word Rajput is used only for Hindu clans located in the foothills of Himachal Pradesh. And here interestingly, the "Bhattis" you mentioned as Rajputs are actually classed as Jats! In Rajasthan the word is pronounced "Bhaati" and here they are considered a true Rajput clan.

It would be safe to call Punjabi Muslims converts of dubious origins.

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Postby Paul » 22 Sep 2007 05:27


ramana
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Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2007 05:50

RahulM, thats a rare and valuable book. Treasure it. Internet prices are ~ $160


Airavat good analysis. How come there were Rajputs in West Punjab?

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Postby rocky » 22 Sep 2007 07:24

What about the Janjuas and the Raos and the Ranas?

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Postby Nayak » 22 Sep 2007 07:30

Image

Image

Image

A cadet of the Indian Army presents a traditional army creation during a fashion show ahead of the 4th World Military Games in the southern Indian city of Hyderabad

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Postby SBajwa » 22 Sep 2007 22:19

Airavat!! I am talking about Indian Punjab. West Punjab does not have any Jutts or Rajputs since they are all Arabic and/or Persian and/or Turkish progeny (mixture of their rapists).

Actully you can find Bhattis who call themselves as Jatts (Jaspal Bhatti) and Bhattis who call themselves Rajputs. Majority of Bhattis in Punjab are definetely Jutts but the fort of Bhatinda was made by the Bhatti Rajputs.

Minhas, Janjua, Parmar, Parihar are other Rajputs that you can find all over Punjab.

Actually!! do you know that Ranghars in Punjab were excluded to live in their own villages and even today you find village named like that i.e. "Rangar Nanglan" is a village in Punjab (Gurdaspur) ., these Ranghars were ******** children of Nawabs and Zamindars and abducted women., most of the naPakistanis are like this.

Virk jutts trace their lineage to a Rajput king named Virk Vardhan.. and the now naPakistani city of Shaikupura was originally called Virkgarh.
Similary... you can find villages/cities all over Punjab where names have been changed to reflect islamiat.

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Postby Airavat » 23 Sep 2007 04:17

Image

Chhatrasal Bundela


Bundelkhand Kesri Maharaja Chhatrasal (1649-1731) alongwith Shivaji and Guru Govind Singh forms a trinity of rebels who rose against Aurangzeb's bigotry and tyranny in the 18th century.

Neglect at the hands of history and the meek and unassertive nature of the Hindi speaking people are probably the two reasons why so few in India know so little about this great warrior, statesman, ruler, patron of art and literature and poet of distinction.


The break-up of the Chandella territory in 15th Century and their usurpation by Muslim invaders and Gonds was interrupted by the ascendancy of a more prolific power—these were the Bundela Rajputs. So complete was the Bundela victory over the Muslims and Gonds, and such was their growth in population, that the land of Jejakbhukti has since been known as Bundelkhand.

Relations of the Bundela Rajputs with the Mughal Empire were stormy—some of their kings joined the Mughals in the hope of making gains, but as often, many others fought bloody wars with them.

By the early decades of the 18th Century the Marathas had become dominant even in North India---for this turn of events Aurangzeb alone bears the responsibility. Aurangzeb had begun demolishing temples in Mughal territory early in his reign; he issued a general order on the provincial governors to demolish temples and put down the Hindu religion in 1669. Accordingly one Gada Beg was sent with 400 cavalry to destroy all temples around Ujjain in 1670---the local Rajputs of that city however killed Gada Beg and 121 of his men. Ujjain was located in the important province of Malwa, which connected the Deccan to the Mughal capitals of Agra and Delhi. In that same year Fidai Khan, the governor of Gwalior attempted to demolish the temple of Orchha but was defeated by the Bundela Rajputs under Dharmangad, the younger brother of Chhatrasal.


Chhatrasal's battles

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Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2007 05:52

Sandeep, I don't like your terming those people born of forced encounter between Hindu women and Muslims by that word. What fault is it of the child? The criminal is the abducting father.

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Postby SBajwa » 23 Sep 2007 09:35

Ramanna!!!!

Hindu or muslim or sikh or christan wombs when forcibly impgrenated and kept to raise cihildren as prostitutes or soldiers is not only wrong but against any humanity.

I do not care as long as children realize that their father was criminal and their home is India and not Arabia, Afghan or Turkey.

I agree that it is a point of contention!! but we must realize the issues!and the issue boils down to one and and the last thing.

1... Arabian... bellicosity, hegiomony, arrogance and dictatorship.

or

1. ... Patience Sabr (patience) as we have shown and . truth(satyamev jayte).and Self righetous (Dharma).

India and indian people have suffered more than enough!! in my rules!! if Arabian culture, religion and beliefs are destroyed from the ethose of Indians it will be a start!! because arabian belief have not contributed towards human growth in 21st century what soever at all.

I do not hate any muslims as long as they are pointing towards Arabia in their homes and not bothering me or like minded people when they go to buy vegetables!


my point to bring forward about ranghar is to tell people that Jawaharlal nehur university and Romilla thapar are wrong!! as these people along with Keraa and West Bengal (despite all the problems) are stilll trying to decieve the majority of India!! which is that in India Dharma has always won and win will in next million centuries!! dharma meaning "righteousness"

Ranghars are the peopole who are born out of Indian unprotected wombs by arabian, afghan, turkish aggression and there is nothing wrong with it as long as they realize it and bring up their children to being non-middle east and Indian.

Middle east, Arabian and Iranians are not only dung!! but we must be so forceful that they these peoplle realize that they are dung ( and indeed a pakistani, arabian, iranian or turkish is a dung of the best quality in world) !!!

Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia are our enemy and sooner they are dead the better we wil all be... That should be our motoo!! because from our history we must learn to never believe Iranians (who kicked out their their own people for islam) and Arabians (who only undertand the language of good shoe beating).

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Postby SBajwa » 23 Sep 2007 09:39

Ramanna!!

when I say "Hindu" wombs!! I am as much saying "Sikh" wombs! because sikh means "shishya" and student when he learned relalized the problem!!


Sihk, Hindu, christian or muslim girls when are forcibly impgrenated it becomes the fight against righteousness vs. wrongness! there is no hindu, islam, christianity or sikhi about it.

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Postby SwamyG » 24 Sep 2007 03:53

Admins, Just did not know the most appropriate forum for this, as it is about a historical battle I post it here, but please move where ever you deem it fit:
Indian patriots vow to block Britons on mutiny tourist trail

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Postby ParGha » 24 Sep 2007 21:19

ramana wrote:The Mauryan era is my favourite for it is the first historical empire of India which still has its impacts on modern India- political, adminsitrative and economy.


The Mauryans were not the first historical empire of India, they quite demonstrably laid their foundations of empire on the ruins of other empires emerging from Magadha. Ajatashtru has the dubious distincion of having first attained imperium long historically pre-dating the Mauryans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajatashatru

Empire being popularly defined as: Generally, they may define an empire as a state that extends dominion over populations distinct culturally and ethnically from the culture/ethnicity at the center of power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire

Of course, there is ahistoric (for lack of a better word) accounts of empires based in Magadha area as far back as Jarasandha (whom Pandavs had to kill to gain imperium), so there is good reason to believe that imperial tradition was strong in that area. {Please let us not go back to Bharata as India's first emperor, I just wanted to speculate on possible roots on imperial traditions in India. Please!}

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Postby Sanjay » 24 Sep 2007 22:10

I am delighted that this thread has attracted so much attention.

Following up on early discussions on the Battle of Hydaspes, it is of interest that Plutarch puts the size of Alexander's army at some 135,000 and that of Paurava at some 20-30,000. Other accounts of the battle exclude the significant number of West Asian mercenaries that were brought into Alexander's invasion force. The question that arises, of course, is how accurate is Plutarch ?

Has anyone read that intriguing book by Itidar Alam Khan ? It makes some interesting reading for anyone interested in the history of gunpowder weapons in India.

For example, using the term kaman-i-rad as a guideline, he suggests that the casting of siege guns was known even to Rana Kumbha who supplied two to an ally.

He also postulates that heavy arquebuses were issued to both the Zamorin's army in Calicut and the army of Gujarat.

He is however, very skeptical about the accounts of guns and gun carriages being found among the spoils of war during one of the major conflicts between Vijayanagar and its Islamic neighbours.

Akbar's siege of Chittor attracts mention for both the 1000 Kalpi musketeers - many apparently Muslims - who served to the end with Jaimal's 8000 troops and the use of an explosive cannon shell fired by the defenders against Akbar's army.

Two things become clear: firearms - both artillery and musket-type weapons - were known to Indian armies before the coming of the Mughals and were used by both Hindu and Muslim powers.

I know that Airavat has done some stellar work on the matchlock armed peasant armies that became a major source of mercenaries - the Purbiyas among them - but can somebody please provide some information on the earliest use of muskets and artillery by non Muslim powers in India ?

In addition, there is little doubt that Muslim armies in India, virtually from the inception of Muslim kingdoms, employed Hindu troops in some numbers. What were relations like within such forces ?

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Postby ParGha » 24 Sep 2007 22:56

Sanjay wrote:In addition, there is little doubt that Muslim armies in India, virtually from the inception of Muslim kingdoms, employed Hindu troops in some numbers. What were relations like within such forces ?


The nature of Hindu military service in Muslim-led armies comes about in many layers: from pure individual mercenaries to large subordinate allied forces. On one end of the scale you had a handful of Mohyals fighting for Imam Hussein all the way back in Battle of Karbala; on the other hand you had the entire northern wing of the Maratha Confederacy nominally fighting for the Mughal Emperor (by then more like mayor of Delhi). Naturally one cannot make generalized statements on the nature of such relations because it varied from time-to-time and place-to-place.

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Postby Babui » 25 Sep 2007 00:40

On one end of the scale you had a handful of Mohyals fighting for Imam Hussein all the way back in Battle of Karbala;
ParGha - can you elaborate? Who are Mohyals? (Hindus?!)

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Postby Sanjay » 25 Sep 2007 01:15

Thanks a lot for that. However, I was being a little vague in my question.

For example a large proportion of Sher Shah Sur's infantry musketeers were Bhaksariya Hindus (unless I am much mistaken) and the Bijapur Sultanate also used a substantial Hindu infantry component. It is in such armies that I am curious about the Hindu-Muslim relationship.

Another question - does anyone have any information on the employment of matchlock muskets by Shivaji's Maratha army ?

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Postby svinayak » 25 Sep 2007 01:16

Babui wrote:
On one end of the scale you had a handful of Mohyals fighting for Imam Hussein all the way back in Battle of Karbala;
ParGha - can you elaborate? Who are Mohyals? (Hindus?!)


There is somebody in this forum who can explain this furthers. Mohyals are the Punjabi Brahmins.
The Bakshis of the Mughal Army were from this community.

They fought in the battle of Karbala.

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Postby ramana » 25 Sep 2007 01:28

Sanjay,
Take a look at this thread on India Forum


It was started in 2003. Its eight pages long.

Pre-Modern Warfare in India and elsewhere


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