Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

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Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby Sachin » 22 Dec 2000 12:10

The notorious Samba Spy scandal which rocked the nation during the 1970s, have finally put to rest.<P>This case had led to the torture and dismissal of many Officers, JCOs and ORs. Some of the officers had taken the case upto the civil courts. The Delhi High-court has now turned down the findings of the General Court Marshal. The full report :-<BR> <A HREF="http://www.timesofindia.com/today/22home3.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.timesofindia.com/today/22home3.htm</A> <P>Capt. Rathore had also published a book narrating is harrowing experinces, and it was out there on the net too. I forgot the link, though.<P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby JCage » 22 Dec 2000 15:24

I salute their courage and determination against all odds.<BR>Such a travesty of justice should never be allowed to occur again.<P>cheers,<BR>nitin

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby abhischekcc » 22 Dec 2000 16:45

Hmmm.<BR>Showed that report to my pop.<BR>Says all of them were convicted for the right reason.<BR>Only the degree of involvment may have varied.<BR>But all were indeed spies of Pakiland.<BR>Sorry, to have disturbed you in your liberal spirits but sometimes the authorities are right.

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby Sachin » 22 Dec 2000 20:01

abhishekcc<BR>These stories will always remain as mysteries for us the common people. May be people inside the Army and Intelligence will know more about it, but we have to rely on news reports. It all depends on who to believe...<P>A private TV channel had telecasted a report about this case (nearly 4 years back). Two statements still stays in my memory:-<BR>A soldier lives and dies for his honour... - Capt.Rathore<BR>As far as I am concerned...the Major is dead..only Rana lives..- Maj.Rana.<P>Both of them seemed to be very broken man.<P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby JCage » 22 Dec 2000 21:53

Abhishek,<BR>I suggest that you go through the entire "history" of the case instead of just asking around.The samba spy case is indeed a travesty of justice.IMHO,this case and that of the gentleman who was accused of "leaking" the atv secrets is the same...power without safeguards is not a pretty picture.<P>regards,<BR>nitin

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby Sachin » 23 Dec 2000 13:29

abhishekcc<BR>Also did your father work in a military unit, which was involved in this episode? Then may be your father could throw more light on this. But if he was not involved, may be he would be only having the news which the Army H.Q would have let out. That would have come through the official channels. <P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby abhischekcc » 23 Dec 2000 20:38

My father retired from the army about two years back. And anyway if you know how things in the govt. in India work , the whole system leaks information.<BR>No , he did not work in any dept. involved in the investigations , he was in the infantry, anyway, not MI.<BR>OK, I did go over board with saying that all ppl were involved, but most were.<BR>Esp. the JCO , Sarwan Singh . I heard a lot of praise for him for his espionage capabilities from a lot of officers who knew about him or knew him. It is said he had an unbelievable photographic memory, if he saw a person once he could recognise him even years later . And he could also see through disguises very easily. He was infact as close to a master spy as you can get without the glamour of 007.<BR>He was a double agent, he worked for both India and Pakiland.<BR>Somewhere , someone decided that to pull the plug on him. The reason could be anything, maybe to promote his own career, maybe out of anger, maybe out of any other reason, and maybe even out of patriotism.<BR>Double agents as you know are nothing new.<BR>But once the cover was blown, it was every man for himself. MI officers and other officers as well , were trying to hide that fact that they knew about what was going on.<BR>Now, if double agents were an accepted fact then there would have been no problem, but they are not accepted as a normal way of conducting espionage in India. So , when one person's cover was blown , he could easily take others with.<BR>The samba spying case is a story of a massive cover up, rather than anything else.<BR>A lot of officers were plain unlucky to not have ducked at the right time , it is true.<BR>But a lot , probably most of those involved were guilty of some crime at least.<BR>They may not have been guilty of what they were accused of but they did do something which is officially considered illegal.<BR>Although in the normal way of intelligence , what they did is considered OK.<P>Espionage is a pretty grey area .<P>While the pain of the innocent is understandable , what I don't understand is the tears for those who were guilty of spying for Pakistan .<BR>Once , when my pop was posted in Jammu, he showed me a Paki document marked 'Top-Secret' , just two days after it was created in Pakiland. Of course I did not get to read what was written on it.<BR>He just showed it to me to show how much they leak info.<BR>I asked him - do we leak as much.<BR>And he said - oh yes, same blood, same character.<BR>That is how much each side has penetrated the other.<P>You might say I am cynical, I am not. This is how things are.<P>Seen in the light of this , you might think that the way Vajpayee and co. kept the N-bomb tests a secret was brilliant, and it was.<BR>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby abhischekcc » 23 Dec 2000 20:46

No , i have not read any books you suggest, and probably never will.<BR>In my opinion , most journalists are fools who will sell their soul to the highest bidder.<BR>We know of one lady who works for a well known Indian news channel, who told the time of the attack on Tiger Hill <B>on TV</B>. The paki so-and-so were waiting for our boys. All were killed.<BR>And this lady got an award for excellence in journalism.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by abhischekcc (edited 23-12-2000).]

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby JCage » 23 Dec 2000 22:23

"But once the cover was blown, it was every man for himself. MI officers and other officers as well , were trying to hide that fact that they knew about what was going on."<P>These 2 sentences tell everything...common all over the world especially in india.<P>The samba spying case is a story of a massive cover up, rather than anything else.<BR>A lot of officers were plain unlucky to not have ducked at the right time , it is true.<BR>But a lot , probably most of those involved were guilty of some crime at least.<BR>They may not have been guilty of what they were accused of but they did do something which is officially considered illegal.<P>Even if "ONE" innocent officer suffers,it *is* a travesty of justice.<BR>If one goes by your post,what these people were doing was "accepted"...why were these chaps the fall guys then?<BR>The army needs to admit its mistake and move on...give these men their honour back.<P>Have you heard of the case of IIRC capt.B.K. subbarao..and the atv?<P>regards,<BR>nitin<P>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby Sachin » 24 Dec 2000 12:30

nitin<BR>What is it about ATV and Subbarao. This thread may be archived, so that we remember one of the bad incidents in the Army. <P>------------------<BR>Sachin P.K<BR>-------------------------<BR><A HREF="http://sachin_pk.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Sachin's Camp on the Web</A><BR>-------------------------<BR>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby JCage » 24 Dec 2000 18:17

The Subbarao case is also an example of the vast power wielded by the "security personnel" read intelligence-bureucrat nexus when it comes to protecting their turf and their interests. The SAMBA case and this one are very similar,people being accused of spying and no evidence being put forth...capt.subbarao however has been luckier in that he had been acquitted first...before those gentlemen in the samba spy case.<BR>IIRC,Indira Gandhi started the atv project...she entrusted the design of the reactor to the BARC.These chaps however simply couldnt come up with a design.At this point of time B.K.Subbarao, a capt . in the Navy rejected a design which WAS submitted...this was particularly justifiable as he was a phd from iit,powai and he was part of a team sent by the navy to "interface" with BARC.Things rapidly became worse...3 more designs were submitted by BARC,each worse than the other and the capt. sticking to his job,rejected them all.<BR>The "bosses" at barc had their knives out for this guy as the continuous rejections meant that the next tranche of funds wouldnt come for the atv project(to BARC).<BR>Subbarao was really frustrated and finally let out that the designs were ridiculous and even a team of naval students trained by him could do a better job in thermocol!I.Gandhi gave him the job of the reactor design......<P>Sometime later,Capt.Subbarao was scheduled to leave for the U.S. ,when he was picked up from Sahar airport by intelligence officials...all his suitcase was found to contain was his p.h.d.<BR>thesis- a public document.Hew as charged with being an american spy and leaking the secrets of the ATV to them...<BR>Over the next year,he was tortured and repeatedly "asked" to confess.<BR>The capt. stuck to his guns and did something quite remarkable....he took up the defense for his case himself,in doing so he became an "expert" in law.Ultimately,after our usual " process of law"-years in fact,the GOI was forced to admit,it had *NO* direct evidence against Capt.subbarao and he was acquitted...what came out in the trial was that BARC HEAD HONCHOS called in their pals in the GOI intelligence setup(RAW/IB IIRC) TO ARRANGE a party for the Capt. before he left..needless to say,all those chaps would be provided immunity...despite the efforts of the court.<BR>He still hasnt got his due..<P>A typical example of how things work in our country.<P>regards,<BR>nitin<P>please see this link: <A HREF="http://www.motherindia.net/politics/006.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.motherindia.net/politics/006.htm</A> <P>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby JCage » 24 Dec 2000 18:29

These are further links about the subbarao case:<BR>This link even elaborates on how the courts were a witness to the charade carried out by the GOI in the name of the official secrets act:<BR>Justice Ahmadi,one of the judges who repeatedly denied subbarao his rights later on became the CJI.<P>QUOTE:<P>"Subbarao was kept in torturous police custody for three months while the police searched for ways to invent a false case against him. On August 9,1988 the Attorney-General of India, K. Parasaran, issued a sanction under sub- section (2) of Section 26 of the Atomic Energy Act 1962 to start prosecution against Subbarao. He was transferred from police custody to judicial custody. For 20 months, Subbarao was shifted between three central prisons of Maharashtra at Bombay, Thane and Nasik."<P><BR>"To add insult to injury, even a Supreme Court Judge, Justice A.M.Ahmadi (later Chief Justice of India) was taken in by the false affidavit filed by the special prosecutors (Mrs. Manjula Rao and Mr. B.R.Handa) and the police, on behalf of the State of Maharashtra. When a conscientious judge of the Bombay High Court tried to render some justice to Subbarao and granted him temporary medical bail, Justice Ahmadi acted high-handedly, not only cancelling the bail but also passing strictures against the High Court judge. Justice Ahmadi also repeatedly refused permission to Subbarao to appear-in-person before the Supreme Court. The unfortunate part was that even after it became clear that the case got bolstered from the false affidavit filed before the Supreme Court, there was no zeal in Justice Ahmadi to remedy the miscarriage of justice caused by his orders. As a result, an innocent, respectable and highly talented man spent 20 months in jail.<P><BR>The court case dragged on for FIVE years. It was placed before three Magistrates, five Sessions judges, 21 High Court judges and 13 Supreme Court judges. In the meantime, Subbarao had spent time in the jail studying law and appeared-in-person in the Sessions Court, Bombay High Court and the Supreme Court where the case reached for a second time. Finally, in October 1991, the Bombay High Court passed Subbarao's acquittal orders. The appeal against the acquittal was dismissed by the Supreme Court in 1993.<P><BR>The case ended in the Supreme Court on a bitter note for Subbarao. He was awarded Rs. 25,000 as "costs for his mental suffering and financial loss" but all those who had caused him the anguish and mastered his prosecution, went scot-free."<BR> <A HREF="http://www.freespeech.org/manushi/108/subbprof.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.freespeech.org/manushi/108/subbprof.html</A> <P>this man is STILL trying for justice......<P>Another link with a concise explanation: <A HREF="http://www.motherindia.net/politics/009.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.motherindia.net/politics/009.htm</A> <P>Capt.Subbarao's appeal to the president: <A HREF="http://www.motherindia.net/politics/010.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.motherindia.net/politics/010.htm</A> <P>regards,<BR>nitin<BR>

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby abhischekcc » 24 Dec 2000 20:02

When I said these things were 'accepted' , it does not make them legal.<BR>It is not possible that with such a big case as Samba there was not a real cause somewhere.<BR>Conversly, with so many people being accused, and so indiscriminately, it is impossible that some of them were not innocent.<BR>But the human story is besides the point.<BR>We cannot judge everything that happens in the world from the point of view of individual suffering ( or gain) alone.<BR>The nation is above the individual.<P>Unfortunately, what the nation gained from all this , even I cannot say with surety.<BR>Except one that the MI officers had became more circumspect in the years immediately following the case.<P>Though, presumably this has suffered in the recent years.<P>There are very few pure victims or pure oppressors/b@stards in this case. Most of the people are a combination of both.<P>Any injustice that happens remains an injustice, no matter what the underlying circumstances.<BR>If these officers were treated unfairly then it surely deserves to be found out who there tormentor is and make him/them pay for it.<BR>But I doubt that they are entirely innocent.<BR>Even if they were sitting in the offrs mess at the alleged time, it doesn't mean that they may not have indulged in spying for Pakiland at some other time.

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby JCage » 24 Dec 2000 22:11

Abhishek,<BR>when legal means are resorted,imho they should hold weight...when the evidence itself leaks like a sieve....what then??<BR>The nation is above the individual...true,these gentlemen wouldnt have joined the army otherwise...but,it is often used as a means to cover up the truth.<BR>In all aspects of indian society,there is an entrenched hierarchy;woe betides the person/s who dares to cross these people.<BR>The OSA is archaic and needs to be scrapped..<P>regards,<BR>nitin

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Re: Samba Spy Case - Justice at Last

Postby Shahid Zaki » 26 Dec 2000 07:41

I believe CAPT. RATHOR and bunch of other officers were UNJUSTLY accused of espionage in the SAMBA case. <P>AS ALWAYS WE MANAGE TO GET THE INNOCENTS BEHIND THE BARS.<P>MOCKERY OF JUSTICE.


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