New IAF world record

Vishnu
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New IAF world record

Postby Vishnu » 02 Nov 2004 18:29

PRESS INFORMATION BUREAU (DEFENCE WING), GOVERNMENT OF INDA

IAF CHEETAH SETS WORLD RECORD
New Delhi: 02 November 2004

An IAF Cheetal Helicopter set a new world record at 0845 hrs today on 02 Nov 04 by landing at a Density Altitude of 25,150 ft at Saserkangri near Leh. Earlier, a Bell 407 helicopter held the world record in landing at the highest altitude, 22,180 ft, Pressure Altitude (24,971 ft Density Altitude) achieved on Jul 28, 2004. This morning at 0845 hrs, a Cheetal helicopter, bettered this record in style. Flown by Gp Capt AS Butola and Sqn Ldr S Sharma, the helicopter landed at Saserkangri at an altitude of 23,220 ft (7070 mts) Pressure Altitude (25,150 ft / 7670 mts Density Altitude). The feat was witnessed and validated by Wg Cdr Upadhayay (Retd), Chief Test Pilot, Rotary Wing, HAL and Wg Cdr Uni Pillay (Retd), flying in an IAF Dhruv helicopter. The motivation behind this attempt was the fact that a Cheetah helicopter of the IAF had landed at a record density altitude of 23, 240 ft just a few months ago – not in the quest of a record, but to rescue causalities from a mountaineering expedition, in extremely challenging conditions. This rescue was accomplished in a Cheetah helicopter powered by the old Artouste-3C, of 847 Horse power. The Cheetal features a Cheetah airframe and the more powerful TM-333-2B2, 1000 Hp Engine, which is fitted on the Advanced Light Helicopter. The combination of a light airframe and a more powerful engine has resulted in a leaner and more capable machine, permitting a higher payload – a critical requirement when operating at the extreme altitudes of the glacier where every gram matters matter. The IAF has been associated in putting this machine through its trials and is all set to procure them for operational service in the IAF. The synergy between the IAF and the Indian Aviation Industry has churned out this winner.

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Postby Jagan » 02 Nov 2004 18:35

Anyone please explain this pressure altitude vs normal altitude thingy?

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Postby JTull » 02 Nov 2004 18:52

If the Dhruv was there all along with the observer team, why doesn't it get the record? That would have been something for the domestic industry!!

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Postby Jagan » 02 Nov 2004 18:54

JTull wrote:If the Dhruv was there all along with the observer team, why doesn't it get the record? That would have been something for the domestic industry!!


1. It may have been observing from a lower altitude.
2. the Dhruv must have been orbiting or moving around the site. Landing and take off requires more power reserves than flying around.

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Postby A Sharma » 02 Nov 2004 18:56


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Postby Arun_S » 02 Nov 2004 19:53

JTull wrote:If the Dhruv was there all along with the observer team, why doesn't it get the record? That would have been something for the domestic industry!!


No. I can bet my Rupiya that Dhruv was flying at a higher altitude. Choppers get additional lift when it is has forward speed (for the same reason as fixed wing plane). Hovering altitude is always lower because of limited lift (not to mention lift loss due to circulation). That is the reason Mi-17 is used for supplied drop in Siachen, but only Cheetha can land on the forward post.

Jagan: Lift is a function of Density, that is indirectly related to air pressure but is also dependent on temprature(we all know the Gas Law, thus can understand that pressure vr density is constant for given temprature, but for given pressure, lower volume is inversly proportional to temp). Thus same pressure but at different temprature will result in different lift.

BTW these days in Leh the temp is really low.
Last edited by Arun_S on 02 Nov 2004 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby shiv » 02 Nov 2004 19:59

Well done IAF and Cheetal.

Yes I think Arun is right - flying forwards generates lift as the rotating blades act as a "rotary wing". Hovering and takeoff/landing are another matter.

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Postby Jagan » 02 Nov 2004 20:07

Incidentally the World Helicopter Altitude record is held by a Cheetah and stands at 40,000 feet.

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Postby Kumar » 02 Nov 2004 21:45

Jagan wrote:Anyone please explain this pressure altitude vs normal altitude thingy?


Altitude is measured by measuring the ambient pressure. For this to work a standard model for the atmosphere is needed which gives the variation of pressure with altitude.

A pressure altitude is the altitude derived from the stndard atmosphere model, given the measured ambient pressure. Similarly for density altitude.

Note that atmosphere is dynamic and on a given time and place it can vary significantly from the standard atmosphere. Therefore the pressure/density altitudes can be quite different from the actual altitude.

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Postby SaiK » 02 Nov 2004 22:39

Earlier, a Bell 407 helicopter held the world record in landing at the highest altitude, 22,180 ft, Pressure Altitude (24,971 ft Density Altitude) achieved on Jul 28, 2004.


Where was this and who did this?

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Postby Arun_S » 02 Nov 2004 23:33

BTW if you notice the BR AF section for 114HU, Gp Capt AS Butola was AF 114HU's Commnading Officer from 1999 to 2001.

114HU just finished celebrating the event with a party. Co-pilot Sqn Ldr S Sharma is from 114HU based in Leh. The landing site was pre-survayed by current CO of 114HU. And I guess the record may be broken again soon because the engine has enough gas to land ~1000 ft higher.

As for the altitude, Pressure altitude is measured by the barometer-altimeter, that is then corrected for temprature to arrive at Density Altitude. All Aircraft parmaters/correction factors are based on Density Altitude.

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Postby Ved » 03 Nov 2004 07:02

shiv wrote:Well done IAF and Cheetal.


That reminds me .... back in 93, a case came to light where an article in a French magazine lauded the heroic rescue of the author, a mountaineer, and his fried, who had broken his spine during a fall while mountaineering in India. They were marooned on a narrow ledge but managed to get an SOS out on their HF set. A Cheetah from Bareilly responded, when the weather was really bad. There was just enough place to hover with one ski on the ledge, in gusty and white-out conditions - but they got the casualties on board and got them to Bareilly. On being summonned by the CAS and asked why they hadnt reported such a feat (after the IAF AA in France reported the article, more than a year later) the Captain confessed that as they were operating well below minima, they didnt want to be rapped on the knuckles for it and so wisely kept their mouths shut! However, the grateful mountaineer subsequently recounted the entire incident in a French magazine. The IAF was magnanimous enough to give the duo a VM, I think, or a Shaurya Chakra.

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Postby Arun_S » 03 Nov 2004 08:29

Ved sir: ******************

The mountaineers were British climbers. I saw the pictures taken by the mountaineers during rescue and they are hair rising to say the least; One Cheetah ski on the ledge and other in the air, the whirling rotor just a foot away from the solid mountain cliff.

I can't but resist telling the fauji story though: IAF HQ magnanimously awarded a Vayu Sena Medal only to the Squadron Leader who was senior in rank but was co-pilot and not the Flt Lt who was the Captain of the aircraft in that daring mission. Later to avoid embarrassment Air HQ awarded VM to both the pilots. :)
Last edited by Arun_S on 07 Dec 2004 07:08, edited 1 time in total.

George J

Postby George J » 03 Nov 2004 10:07

***

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Postby Arun_S » 03 Nov 2004 10:43

Talking of Leh, I flew in on IAF IL76, and got the privilages to sit next to flight navigator on the plexi glass nose cone of the plane, what grand view flying over the mountain.

Those pix in full resolution are 5 M pixle. Lots of good photos from Ladakh. will write another article on Ladakh and visit to Penangso Lake facing Chinese post (on Indian land) some day with those pix.
Last edited by Arun_S on 07 Dec 2004 07:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Abhisham » 03 Nov 2004 11:50

Both the IL-76 and An-32 fly to thois and leh airbase daily from Chandigardh. My ticket was a bit lower 900 rupees :D as i was on dependent pass. Penangso lake is beautiful and if you want any pictures to go with your article i would be glad to contribute. I have spent quite a substantial period of time in that area.

Abhi

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Postby Jagan » 03 Nov 2004 12:52

George J wrote:
BTW where are the pics? Can we get them for BR?


I second that. Pics or the story would do great. we are having too many fighter stories and too few transport and chopper articles.

And was it 111HU?

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Postby shiv » 03 Nov 2004 13:04

Arun_S wrote:Ved sir: Let me refresh your memory ****
The mountaineers were British climbers. I saw the pictures taken by the mountaineers during rescue and they are hair rising to say the least; One Cheetah ski on the ledge and other in the air, the whirling rotor just a foot away from the solid mountain cliff.

I can't but resist telling the fauji story though: IAF HQ magnanimously awarded a Vayu Sena Medal only to the Squadron Leader who was senior in rank but was co-pilot and not the Flt Lt who was the Captain of the aircraft in that daring mission. Later to avoid embarrassment Air HQ awarded VM to both the pilots. :)


Arum the next time we meet you can be sure I will have you kidnapped and thrown in a 400% dark dungeon until you cough up photos. Don't even imagine for one second that we are going to wait for some Leh article from you. That can come later.

No 5 megapixel excuses in these broadband times. Even Mumbaikars from the heart of yindooland are not shying away from putting up megabyte videos.

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Postby Tijo » 03 Nov 2004 13:04

I want pics.. I want pics.. I want pics.. I want pics..

Arun_S wrote:Ved sir: Let me refresh your memory ****
The mountaineers were British climbers. I saw the pictures taken by the mountaineers during rescue and they are hair rising to say the least; One Cheetah ski on the ledge and other in the air, the whirling rotor just a foot away from the solid mountain cliff.

I can't but resist telling the fauji story though: IAF HQ magnanimously awarded a Vayu Sena Medal only to the Squadron Leader who was senior in rank but was co-pilot and not the Flt Lt who was the Captain of the aircraft in that daring mission. Later to avoid embarrassment Air HQ awarded VM to both the pilots. :)

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Postby Manne » 03 Nov 2004 13:07

Ample sense. :)

This is criminal I say, keeping all those pics hidden from our jingo eyes just to be used in a new article. Shame shame. :P

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Postby Kapil » 03 Nov 2004 15:37

shiv wrote:Arum the next time we meet you can be sure I will have you kidnapped and thrown in a 400% dark dungeon until you cough up photos. Don't even imagine for one second that we are going to wait for some Leh article from you. That can come later.

No 5 megapixel excuses in these broadband times. Even Mumbaikars from the heart of yindooland are not shying away from putting up megabyte videos.


Hey,what do you mean old boy? Don't treat us like that!!!

Arun-Man,your next assignment has just been handed over to you :P

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Postby Ved » 03 Nov 2004 18:45

Arun_S wrote:Ved sir: Let me refresh your memory**** :)


How come YOU kept it in the dark?! Look on the bright side, I got so many things right - the ac type, the type of pickup, and (eventually!) the number of medals!

Rustom

Re: New IAF world record

Postby Rustom » 04 Nov 2004 00:23

Vishnu Som wrote:PRESS INFORMATION BUREAU (DEFENCE WING), GOVERNMENT OF INDA

IAF CHEETAH SETS WORLD RECORD
New Delhi: 02 November 2004

An IAF Cheetal Helicopter set a new world record at 0845 hrs today on 02 Nov 04 by landing at a Density Altitude of 25,150 ft at Saserkangri near Leh. Earlier, a Bell 407 helicopter held the world record in landing at the highest altitude, 22,180 ft, Pressure Altitude (24,971 ft Density Altitude) achieved on Jul 28, 2004. This morning at 0845 hrs, a Cheetal helicopter, bettered this record in style. Flown by Gp Capt AS Butola and Sqn Ldr S Sharma, the helicopter landed at Saserkangri at an altitude of 23,220 ft (7070 mts) Pressure Altitude (25,150 ft / 7670 mts Density Altitude). The feat was witnessed and validated by Wg Cdr Upadhayay (Retd), Chief Test Pilot, Rotary Wing, HAL and Wg Cdr Uni Pillay (Retd), flying in an IAF Dhruv helicopter. The motivation behind this attempt was the fact that a Cheetah helicopter of the IAF had landed at a record density altitude of 23, 240 ft just a few months ago – not in the quest of a record, but to rescue causalities from a mountaineering expedition, in extremely challenging conditions. This rescue was accomplished in a Cheetah helicopter powered by the old Artouste-3C, of 847 Horse power. The Cheetal features a Cheetah airframe and the more powerful TM-333-2B2, 1000 Hp Engine, which is fitted on the Advanced Light Helicopter. The combination of a light airframe and a more powerful engine has resulted in a leaner and more capable machine, permitting a higher payload – a critical requirement when operating at the extreme altitudes of the glacier where every gram matters matter. The IAF has cbeen associated in putting this machine through its trials and is all set to procure them for operational service in the IAF. The synergy between the IAF and the Indian Aviation Industry has churned out this winner.

WOOHOO GO INDIA!! IMO, this is no small feat & is one hell of an accomplishment. I hope that the pilots get all the credit that they desserve. Congratulations to them & I hope that they pop in here sometime.

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Postby S Bajwa » 04 Nov 2004 01:00

Congratulations.

Great Work... Let them follow.

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Postby Arun_S » 04 Nov 2004 03:03

Looks like I have to pushover Siachen into mountaines of Baltistan :twisted: to hide from corcive demands of BRF jingo's.

Some pics have photo's of serving personell that makes it difficult to put on web, and some pics are so beautiful that I can make $10^6 selling them. Personal time is the problem. However I will try soon to watermark and make an album.

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Postby svinayak » 04 Nov 2004 04:43

Manne wrote:Ample sense. :)

This is criminal I say, keeping all those pics hidden from our jingo eyes just to be used in a new article. Shame shame. :P


Lot of BRF people already had the previledge of seeing the pics thanks to AS more than a year back. 8)

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Postby Manne » 04 Nov 2004 09:07

I have either missed it or forgotten about it. However, it appears to me that not all the *sexy* pics were put up.

Arun_S, mannechi yahoo com would be the place if you needed any help putting in watermark etc.

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Postby Arun_S » 07 Nov 2004 03:49

Manne: Thanks. I will take the offer when I get a breather.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 491700.htm

About the achievements of the Indian Air Force, he said that the IAF has recently broken the world record of high-altitude flying by landing a `Cheetal' helicopter, which is basically a `Cheetah' chopper with a new engine, at 25,000 feet in the Laddakh region.

Buoyed by the success, the IAF has proposed to convert its `Siachen Pioneers' squadron of Cheetah helicopters to Cheetal choppers and placed an order with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd for 12 new aircraft.

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Three cheers

Postby SaurabhL » 08 Nov 2004 11:06

Three cheers to the IAF on their latest achievement.

Regards,
Saurabh S.Lele

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Postby enaiel » 10 Nov 2004 02:42

The Dhruv did break a record too!

http://www.hal-india.com/cheetal.asp

While the Cheetal was executing its epoch making landing – one Indian Air Force Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) ‘Dhruv’(J 4041) set another record by flying at a density altitude of 27,000 feet or 8230 metres above mean sea level in the same region ! The mission was flown by HAL’s Chief Test Pilot Wg.Cdr.C.D Upadhyay – a retired veteran of IAF and a winner of Vir Chakra. He was accompanied by his co-pilot – another test pilot Wg.Cdr.Unni Pillai. This is the highest altitude ever attained by an intermediate class helicopter. Its a rare tribute to Indian endeavour made possible by the rich contribution of HAL designers, engineers, technicians and Indian Air Force pilots who have carried out these missions with total dedication. An excellent team effort to touch the sky with glory !!

JTull wrote:If the Dhruv was there all along with the observer team, why doesn't it get the record? That would have been something for the domestic industry!!

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Postby JTull » 10 Nov 2004 03:23

Thanks enaiel. Indeed a great achievement which should be toasted by all Indians.

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Postby Kartik » 10 Nov 2004 03:27

awesome ! :D

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Postby Sohum » 01 Dec 2004 02:07



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