Indian Military Helicopters

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raghava
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby raghava » 24 Mar 2021 23:52

Rahul M wrote:From HVT himself !
https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/13744 ... 72322?s=19
LCH naming...
Suggestions https://t.co/RljhkebFoX

Go wild ! (On twitter, so that he can read it) :D


"Kailash" - with all its insinuations to the Chinese

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby arshyam » 26 Mar 2021 22:20

Bhairav/Bhairava?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 26 Mar 2021 23:45

Guys please add the names as replies on that Twitter thread. Putting them here is of no use.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby MeshaVishwas » 05 Apr 2021 23:39

Informative video by HAL. 200+ kg payload at 20,000+ feet! (hot and high conditions, I suppose). 1,70,000+ flight hours! 8)

And I think a very rare shot of Rudra firing off a Mistral ATAM?


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Apr 2021 06:47

Cross-posting from 'Naval Aviation' thread:

Full story behind paywall:

Naval Helicopters: Critical trials ahead for indigenous ALH

With a plan to manufacture naval utility helicopters under a strategic partnership model in the doldrums, all eyes are on a critical trial of an indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter being modified for ship-borne operations of the Navy.

A crucial trial of the folding tail boom – the aft section of the chopper – is planned by next month to demonstrate that the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) can easily fit into hangars and heli-decks of frontline warships, people familiar with the development told ET. The first ALH with a modified tail section as per the navy’s specifications is ready

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2021 04:50

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/138 ... 52864?s=20 ---> HAL Dhruv with an Emergency Floatation System (EFS). Designed to minimise the chances that a helicopter which is involved in either a controlled ditching or a water impact sinks or capsizes as a result. Usually, inflation is provided by gas stored in pressurized cylinders which are carried onboard. The need for rapid inflation is met by the inclusion of helium in the gas but it is usually blended with other gases.

https://twitter.com/prashantricoche/sta ... 09091?s=20 ---> Done by ADRDE (Aerial Delivery Research and Development Establishment), Agra.

Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby SSridhar » 20 Apr 2021 07:43

Rakesh, the first URL in the above is incorrect.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2021 08:40

SSridhar wrote:Rakesh, the first URL in the above is incorrect.

Oops! Thank You SSridhar-ji. I have fixed the link.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby mody » 24 Apr 2021 18:13

We have a huge requirement of helicopters and yet no orders have been signed. If not actual orders at least LOI's should be issued so that HAL can start producing the units and also raise finances.
We have to leverage the size of our requirement.
LOI can be placed on HAL for all of the following:
LCH - 36 for IAF and 114 for IA with option for additional units
LUH - 387 Units, split between IAF and IA as required
ALH/NUH - 81 + option for additional 30 units (can happen only after IN approves the ALH MK3, with the folding boom and folding blades)
Besides this there is also the requirement for trainer aircrafts.
HTT-40 has already received the IOC and is expected to start LSP.
HTT-40 -70 + option for additional 36 units
There is reportedly a requirement for 36-40 units of IJT-36 Sitara as well, if the spin trials pan out.
Add an order for another 2 squadrons worth of Tejas MK1A, (along with additional 36 Rafael, this is the most logical and desired solution to arrest the decline in numbers for IAF).

Adding all of the above along with the recent order for 73 Tejas MK1A+10 Trainers, the total projected orders for HAL would be about 1.5 Lakh crores or about $20 Billion. With this kind of projected orders, with formal LOI issued, the stock price can gain significantly. Given the buoyant stock markets, it would not be too difficult for HAL to raise say about 2,500 crores from the market, by issuing additional shares. Sure this would dilute GOI's stake in HAL, but the expected share price increase would mean that value of the holding will likely remain the same or may even increase.
The funds thus generated by HAL can help it start off the production process and also upgrade the existing facilities if required. Most importantly it would not require GOI to immediately release funds to HAL, which seems to be major constraint at the moment.

A projected order book of $20 billion would put HAL in the top 5 aerospace companies in the world.
HAL should also be mandated to offload as much work as possible to the pvt. sector and work mainly as an integrator.
The production numbers required would be huge. 70-76 helicopters per annum, 24 fighter aircrafts per annum, 24 trainers per annum, plus all the upgradation work that might come about for the Su-30MKI and possibly the IOC and FOC Tejas aircrafts. This production rate would be required for anywhere between 6-10 years.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 26 Apr 2021 18:33

DRDO develops Single Crystal Blades for helicopter engine application

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetai ... ID=1714134

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 27 Apr 2021 20:52

Answer in link below....

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 92640?s=20 ---> Spot the obvious difference in this Dhruv helicopter.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 27 Apr 2021 21:41

ashishvikas wrote:DRDO develops Single Crystal Blades for helicopter engine application

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetai ... ID=1714134

https://twitter.com/DRDO_India/status/1 ... 81411?s=20 ---> DRDO has developed single crystal blades technology and has supplied 60 number of these blades to HAL as part of their indigenous helicopter development program for helicopter engine application. The supply of remaining 4 sets will be completed in due course. #AtmanirbharBharat.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 27 Apr 2021 21:42

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 80485?s=20 ---> DRDO has supplied single crystal blades to HAL for the indigenous helicopter engine program HTSE-1200. The engine will replace the current Shakthi engine powering the ALH, LCH & LUH helicopters.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 95300?s=20 ---> The turbine blades were made by Defence Metallurgical Research Lab (DMRL) and 4 more such sets will be delivered in due time. DMRL has also developed single crystal blades made from Nickel alloys for the indigenous jet engine program.

Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Atmavik » 05 May 2021 11:40


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby jamwal » 08 Jul 2021 16:49

https://resonantnews.com/2021/07/07/why ... ndian-navy
Worth reading in full.

Why ALH Dhruv Is Still The Best Bet for Indian Navy?
Image

1. All Up Weight (AUW):

While Indian Navy initally stated a 3.0 ton AUW (total weight of the helicopter when fully loaded) to replace its ageing Chetak (also a 3.0 tn chopper) fleet in the RFI in 2008, this was subsequently increased to 5 ton, most probbaly to allow more foreign contenders (esp. Airbus Panther) in the NUH. Airbus Panther, which is the top contender among the foreign manufacturers, has the AUW of 4.5 ton (higher than the other foreign contenders for NUH). In comparison, the ALH Dhruv Mk3 (5.5 ton category chopper) with a superior engine than Mk1 (Turbomeca Shakti engine) & capable composite airframe has the AUW of 5.75 ton. Even if the Navy remains firm on their AUW limit of 5 ton, the ALH Mk3 can easily meet the AUW requirement by removing systems which are not deemed necessary under the NUH guidelines, (such as sonar, surveillance radar, conventional V/UHF systems (digital intercommunication systems), rear main tank etc.) while adding 2 segmented/tail boom blade folding measures, weather radars, slewing Sling Load, software defined radio, weather radar, which are considered essentialunder the same NUH NSQRs. Further, the ALH Mk3 will still retain the flexibility to add 1.25ton extra weight if any operational requirements so necessitate.


Image

ALH Mk3 has a clear advantage of range and endurance over the rest of the foreign contenders if ALH is allowed to use its full capacity of 5.75 ton (which allows it to carry more fuel, thereby extending its range). Though the glass ceiling of 5 ton (changed from what was originally 3 ton in the Navy’s RFI in 2008) is clearly not a deck limitation. But even if the Navy’s 5 ton limit is taken as the threshold limit for the NUH, ALH MK3 still has a better range than all of its foreign competitors


The 2 Segment 4 Blade folding was demonstrated in HAL Light Utility Helicopter and the time taken in blade folding was about 6 minutes, well within the requirements of NUH and was seen as an effective option for ALH Mk3 to meet the stowed requirements of NUH.
The Tail boom folding was demonstrated on 7 Nov 2020 in ALH Mk3 DMDW prototype and earlier in a mock up model in Aero India 2019. The Tail boom folding in combination with existing 2 blade folding achieved stowage dimension of 13.5m length, 3.5m width, 4.1m height & meets the NUH specifications.


Sub-Surface Targeting is listed as one of essential requirement as per the NUH, apart from ALH, only Panther has demonstrated maritime radar and lightweight torpedo carrying capability, while the rest contenders don’t even meet this requirements.

Also, ALH has a larger cabin volume than the most other NUH contenders and has the capacity to accommodate 12 crews as compared to 10 in Panther, 8 in Ka-226T, 8 in H135M.



HAL, the owner of design IP in ALH is capable of handling any type of unilateral upgrades, additional requirement of change in specifications, integration of new weapons, sensors etc. with considerably less effort, and more importantly,without much involvement of foreign OEMs. Being an HAL product, the obsolescence issues during entire product life cycle can be effectively addressed by HAL.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 10 Jul 2021 16:06

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/forces ... 284444.cms

. “The first six of these LUHs are now likely to be inducted in December 2022. There are still some technical issues with these LUHs, including problems with tail rotor systems in high-altitude areas,” he added.


Lobbying for Ka226 flyaway import @6m$/ helo and ka 226 local production @11m$ /helo.

For the first first time HAL LUH has tail rotor problem.

Cancel Ka226 for it is costlier than Dhruv which can be bought for immediate requirement till LUH full production starts.

Arms lobby has no qualms that why go for costly imports when indian product is available.
Last edited by sankum on 10 Jul 2021 21:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sanjayc » 10 Jul 2021 20:35

^^ $11 million cost per LUH is including land acquisition for setting up the factory, labor, technology transfer, cost of machinery, etc. Does 6 million for Ka226 include all this cost? Mischievous comparison. Pls even if LUH is expensive, most of the money will stay in India and create jobs, and not be deposited in Russia in dollars like in case of Ka226

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakkaji » 11 Jul 2021 00:59

The way I read it in the article, the $11M figure is for the local production of the KA226 in India, compared to $6M for the units that will be directly imported from Russia. The cost of land acquisition etc is for a new factory for the Indo-Russian Helicopters Ltd, a joint venture of Rosonoboexport and HAL, to manufacture the KA226T in India.

The LUH will be manufactured by HAL at its new Tumkur facility. Price quoted for the LUH by HAl is not mentioned in the news story by Rajat Pandit. Although I cannot believe it can be more than that of the ALH. So the IA/ IAF must have a good indication of its price by now.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby LakshmanPST » 11 Jul 2021 07:49

Why can't Army order LUH on emergency basis rather than ordering Ka226...?
I mean who takes these decisions...?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Jul 2021 09:50

And the media house who has a chance of making money from Ka 226 deal will report they have no hope of making any money?? Some of the media is to communicate indirectly with arms dealers and build up the case for imports, posters here like US keeping area 51 secrets but GOI with various pressures must disclose all its programs and plans? That too a clearly dishonest media?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 11 Jul 2021 16:42

Some chatter on the net about Nigeria wanting to buy the LCH (partly due to US sanctions against Russia).. Denel is apparently in the running. Probably rumors.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rony » 11 Jul 2021 16:49

https://twitter.com/DefenseNigeria/stat ... 0677669888 - So just confirmed the Nigerian army is aquiring Squadron of the LCH copters from India. What's the history of India's LCH program? Any prior combat experience or foreign export sales. It's confusing.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 11 Jul 2021 19:55

Air Marshal P K Roy
Armed forces planning to approach govt to procure min inescapable no of already selected Russian Kamov-226T in a flyaway condition.
Need to replace obsolete1960s vintage single-engine Cheetah/Chetak has become an “existential operational necessity” now.


Harsh Vardhan Thakur
"Planning to approach..?"
Yes sir. As far as I know, no one in the services wants to import the chopper quoted.

Of course armed forces need LUH as correctly stated in the article. LUH program is spearheaded by Army as well as Air Force, with the services pilots flying regularly.


VatsRohit
All these articles with anonymous sources within the Services are nothing but an attempt to use their name to lobby for a certain product. Everytime domestic product is about to reach maturity & induction stage, you'll see plethora of such articles.


https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14142 ... 72224?s=19

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vips » 12 Jul 2021 08:15

This is a very serious effort by the Natasha Lobby to make India import the Ka 226 and they have claimed that the cheetahs and chetaks have very low availability rate of 40% for air lift operations along our borders.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prem Kumar » 12 Jul 2021 14:53

ashishvikas wrote:Air Marshal P K Roy
Armed forces planning to approach govt to procure min inescapable no of already selected Russian Kamov-226T in a flyaway condition.
Need to replace obsolete1960s vintage single-engine Cheetah/Chetak has become an “existential operational necessity” now.


Its enraging to see retired Air Marshals take this line of argument.

How many trials in the Himalayan heights has the Ka-226T cleared?

The LUH achieved IOC in Feb 2020 after clearing high-altitude trials. Any import at this stage is downright criminal.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 12 Jul 2021 19:28

The Air Marshals are planning to approach. It doesn't say that they have actually approached the government for emergency purchase of the damm thing.

If they do then yes your argument would be justified. But in the absence of any real evidence.

Let's wait and watch.
Last edited by Pratyush on 12 Jul 2021 21:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prem Kumar » 12 Jul 2021 19:50

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say treason.

The article was by that douche Rajat Pandit. But the person who tweeted it and justified the purchase was a retired air marshal. His justification is not on solid grounds.

At any rate, a retired Air Marshal isn't going to petition the Govt in any official capacity. Its the mindset of people like him that I am calling into question.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby arvin » 12 Jul 2021 19:57

Russia should have tied up with some tractor maker to manufacture the Barn copter. Could have easily found buyer for farm use. Maybe ferry farmers to Delhi border?.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 12 Jul 2021 21:41

Apology for the mis quote.

Corrected the original post

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 12 Jul 2021 23:49

HVT:
after #LCH announcement today...
Next in line!

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14146 ... 84259?s=20

Image

Questions:
Do we need russian light helis?
Can HAL LUH replace kamov ka 226?


HVT:
#LUH only
Rest is theatrics


https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14146 ... 18756?s=19

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 13 Jul 2021 11:02

Indian Multi Role Helicopter - The #IndianNavy has decided to come onboard for India’s most ambitious indigenous #helicopter development plan, giving a boost to the project that intends to save a Rs 2 lakh crore import bill for military platforms in the coming years.

https://twitter.com/ETDefence/status/14 ... 88385?s=20

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 358072.cms

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 13 Jul 2021 11:35

2 lakh crores!!!

That's a huge amount. Only slightly less than 30 billion USD at current exchange rates.

Nice. Now get the thing in the air ASAP.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prem Kumar » 13 Jul 2021 11:53

About LCH induction:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/hal-set-to-deliver-first-batch-of-3-light-combat-helicopters-to-iaf/article35265426.ece

So much ado about 3 LCHs that HAL built due to its own initiative.

The deal for the 15 LCH was expected to have been signed in the first quarter of 2021 but has been delayed due to the second wave of the pandemic.


The above is qtiyapa of the highest order. Paper-pushing has been delayed due to Corona - wah!

Because HAL hasn't gotten the orders yet, they will deliver 15 LCHs by next year only: 9 this year and 6 next year. This after the below happened

Last August, amid the ongoing standoff with China in Eastern Ladakh, two LCH were deployed for operations at high altitude in Leh at short notice to support IAF missions, validating their capability.


The Chinese must be quivering in their boots at our pace of induction

If we are into silver-lining and such

Presently, the Army has 90 Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) and 75 Rudra, weaponised ALH, helicopters in service

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 13 Jul 2021 12:54

Indian army Dhruv order is so far for107nos of which 6 have crashed and replacement order of 6 will be placed which is for Rs 270 Cr. $6m / Helo

78 Rudra Helo of which 1 has crashed.

Present fleet 101 + 77 = 178 nos. Of these order 12 nos still to be delivered by HAL. 166 nos fleet.

23 nos more Dhruv order to be placed in last year news report. Total fleet after 7 crashes will be 201nos.

IAF 60 Dhruv (3 crashed) + 16 Rudra= 73 helo
20 more to be ordered for fleet of 93.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 13 Jul 2021 12:57

IN 123 nos NMRH will be a naval version of IMRH is a good news which is split in 3 versions.
66 ASW
33 Commando
24 Utility

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby mody » 13 Jul 2021 15:10

sankum wrote:IN 123 nos NMRH will be a naval version of IMRH is a good news which is split in 3 versions.
66 ASW
33 Commando
24 Utility


There will probably also be an AEW version to supplement and eventually replace the Ka-31.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kit » 13 Jul 2021 16:33

Out of curiosity., isnt the light helicopter on the negative import list ? or is that "emergency" as well

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Barath » 13 Jul 2021 19:55

https://theprint.in/defence/india-notif ... ed/669094/

"which included light helicopters with single engines"

Which means Kamov 226T import (the first batch) is perfectly allowed. Of course you still have other issues (cost and indigenization)

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 754482.ece

$6m flyaway for each Ka226T Russian imports. $11 m for made in India Ka226T;

[Phase 0 is import 60]

Phase 1, 3.3% indigenisation would be achieved for 35 helicopters,

in Phase 2 it would go up to 15% indigenisation for 25 helicopter,

35% indigenisation for 30 helicopters in Phase 3 and

eventually to 62.4% indigenisation in Phase 4 for the last 50 helicopters.


The helicopter is powered by a French engine and would have 74% Russian content and 26% European content. IIRC, the indigenization % above only applies to the Russian bit.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jul 2021 04:11

Since we a have a thread on almost every local helicopter out there, I am closing this thread and not creating a new one. The only one that does not have a dedicated thread is the HAL Dhruv. However any related Dhruv news can be posted in other relevant threads.

Foreign helo acquisitions can be posted into the service they are expected to join.

Indian Multi-Role Helicopter
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7842

Light Utility Helicopter
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7841

Light Combat Helicopter
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7815


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