Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Postby Deans » 17 May 2022 18:51

John wrote:
Anyway overall I believe amount of defenders in Mariupol were vastly overestimated perhaps Ukraine didn’t have defenses prepared or Russia over committed its forces 10-15 BTGs to take whats turning out to be less than 2000 defenders (currently about 300 Azov are there and couple hundred marines were captured, so if we thriple that to account for dead and those who escaped).

There were 2 full brigades of perhaps Ukraine's most committed forces defending Mariupol and later Azovstal.
These were the 36 Marine Brigade and the National guard brigade, built around the Azov force.
Also, police, conscripted citizen militia and foreign volunteers (officially designated by Ukraine as a foreign legion).

We can quibble about the size of the defending force. In my view it was not very different from the size of the attacking force - which in theory is not sufficient to prevail in urban combat. In Fallujah, a US division, a UK brigade and Iraqi forces together fought around 3500-4000 insurgents.

Wherever there was urban combat, the Russians prevailed, which is why the defenders retreated to the Azovstal complex. If the Russians had assaulted that complex, it would have been Stalingrad tractor factory ver 2.0 Far more sensible to lay siege.

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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Postby Deans » 17 May 2022 18:55

Cyrano wrote: Overall RA mil int seems to be working very well.

Russian military intel has now started getting its act together. Russian channels regularly show clips of Western equipment entering Ukraine and stocks of captured AGTW's and other weapons.

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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Postby Cyrano » 17 May 2022 19:04

Baikul ji,
Extremist ideologues have 2 defining traits: cruelty and cowardice, the first manifests to hide the second. True for Pakis (what they did to BD people before the 1971 war - and how quickly they folded), if you look closely you'll see its true for Azov/right sector etc and their ilk in Ukraine as well. Their hiding in Azovstal entrails is folding, not fighting. Present surrender is because they know death like a rat is the only alternative.

Western spin on this will have us :rotfl: for ages.

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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Postby Baikul » 17 May 2022 19:14

habal wrote:new york times & other west media insist on calling the mariupol azovite 'surrender' as evacuation. ... ZneuEdaeSg

Lol, it’s a surrender plain and simple.

Cyrano wrote:….

Western spin on this will have us :rotfl: for ages.

And that’s my chief takeaway from this event Cyrano ji- Russian propagandu sucks. India needs to learn how to play the game.

Had Russian forces been surrendering in Mariupol, we’d have a million feet of footage by now, and a million lines in print about how significant the event was. Instead all we have is stodgy coverage, almost as if it’s a non event.

Whereas it’s huge.

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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Postby Rakesh » 17 May 2022 19:18

Cyrano wrote:Rakesh ji,
Agree with what you're saying, but there is a more subtle polarisation happening here.

Agree with your post Cyrano-ji. Well put.

ks_sachin wrote:Rakesh,

A good summary.

Sirjee, the summary was not meant to include every poster contributing in this thread. Just my view of a large number of them. You were never in either of those two groups. Apologies if you took it that way. I should have been more clearer. My fault.

I don't believe you - or any else - expected this thread to take divergent viewpoints in the manner it has. I am going to have to lock this thread and create two new ones. This discussion is important to have, so thank you for starting this thread.

ks_sachin wrote:That is why Brar_w was good. He knew enough to cut through some of the fanciful notions that people had/have - across a number of threads.

There was no need for him to leave. But posting in BRF is each individual's choice. Moderators cannot force people to contribute. I hope he will come back, but the decision is his.

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