Single largest intra day fall in last 10 months immediately after rail budget "on profit booking"?kvraghav wrote:Piklu, you know about profit booking? which usually follows a rally
HSR is a 10 years sustained agenda on economic front without going into other issues even including FDI vendor financing.Supratik wrote: I am not very high on HSR as I feel the existing system should get priority to develop to international std. However, if it can be done with minimum public finances I don't see any problem.
In my experience, on key routes (in fact on most routes), if you are looking to book less than 2 weeks before your travel date, no chance of getting a ticket in any class of travel (during peak season make that 1 month).Rahul Mehta wrote:Any data on occupancy rate in railways ?
We always hear that getting tickets is like winning lottery. Then what % seats in 3AC , 2AC, 2AC-CC classes remain vacant?
This needs to be looked into seriously from revenue PoV.
Are you serious ? ANY large scale capacity addition is a long term exercise. Which basically means that things can change. What sort of argument is that ?Picklu wrote: HSR is a 10 years sustained agenda on economic front without going into other issues even including FDI vendor financing.
Lot can change in the next 10 years which will include multiple state and central election. Which is why I am not so keen on it. As the honourable minister himself said there are projects hanging for last 30 years.
Isnt that rather presumptive ? Without any idea what so ever of the numbers, how is it remotely possible to do a RoI analysis ? A HSR has numerous benefits in a country like India.And then what is the ROI for this HSR? There has to be huge subsidy to make it viable which the vendor will simply take away without any benefit like local manufacture without royalty etc.
On that logic, we should not even make airports right ? Or anything like that ?There will be a very small segment of beneficiary of HSR due to high price even after massive subsidy. Do you think it is right to spend so much subsidy for such a small beneficiary population just for the sake of H&D?
I am not sure what your problem with the "usual" is, is it that usual is pointless ? Or because other have talked about it and failedPicklu wrote:So, if the main plank of HSR goes away, what remains in this budget? Usual - safety, PPP, cleanliness, station upgrade etc etc. Same has been talked about lot in the past and nothing happened.
No there is no such data. This is merely your view. Quite unfounded frankly.What the share market and the shrewd businessmen are seeing is that the main economic viability part of IR is being left alone
As I asked you on the other thread, I really wonder which rail budget have you been talking off. Because in this rail budget1. No discussion on dedicated freight corridor or enlargement of the scope
Surely you are joking Mr Picklu?2. No discussion on improving IR financially
Interesting bait and switch. On one hand you say **nothing** has been done on the other **no detailed proposals** -- so you admit you are incorrect in trying to project your pet peeves, and have nothing to them than to say "not enough detail for me" -- I am truly disappointed they did not send you the detailed PPT.
3. No proposal to time bound auto increment of tariff similar to petrol, diesel etc to cut off the existing subsidy burden (some platitudes have been given like keeping the subsidy to 23 paisa per passenger km but no concrete proposal as in how)
Really given your long litany of woes about lack of details, I am surprised you have the chutpaz to claim that this lacks vision, when your entire set of complaints are "they are just talking about stuff"public communication event about the vision of the govt. This budget has been uninspiring on that account.
First, the bullet train dream. Bullet trains, travelling faster than 250 kmph, are, well, a seductive concept, but the fact is that only two lines in the world—one in Paris and the other in Japan—actually break even. Bullet trains that China has invested in run up staggering losses. The upfront investment is too high, and there is a limit to what passengers will pay for their tickets, so recovering costs may take decades, if they are recovered at all. The railway minister himself admitted in his speech that the investment would be “`60,000 crore for introducing one bullet train alone”. `60,000 crore! And this when, “(The Railways’) surplus, after paying obligatory dividend and lease charges, was…`602 crore in the current financial year.” But, of course, as Gowda put it, “it is the wish and dream of every Indian that India runs a bullet train as early as possible.”
Ok, now for the bullet trains’ slower cousins—the high-speed trains (160-200 kmph). Gowda wants to introduce them in nine sectors. Fair enough. But he misses the most economical and smartest way to do it.
Let’s go back to the basics. The Indian Railways makes its profits from transporting freight, and these profits are used to subsidise the passenger business. Yet, freight trains get stepmotherly treatment from the Railways. They are not timetable trains and spend possibly 50% of their travel time hanging around for the lines to clear. No wonder 70% of freight traffic has shifted to roads, even though road transport is more expensive and less environment-friendly. Hence the concept of Dedicated Freight Corridors (DFCs), railway lines only for freight trains, connecting important commercial centres of India. This is the most crucial project that the Indian Railways are working on right now, yet Gowda mentioned it only once in his speech.
Two of the six corridors planned—the Western DFC (Delhi-Mumbai) and the Eastern DFC (Ludhiana-Kolkata)—are targeted to be commissioned by March 2017. The ports in the Western region covering Maharashtra and Gujarat will be efficiently linked to the northern hinterland, and coal would move rapidly to the power plants in the north, and steel to the industries. The DFCs will have a massive impact on the Railways’ profitability, and the entire Indian economy. The average speed of freight trains will go up from 25 kmph to 70 kmph which will reduce the transit time from the present levels. At the same time, DFCs will allow higher axle loads per carriage and much longer trains. And the beauty of it is that the project will pay for itself because of the obvious advantages it would offer.
So what does all this have to do with high-speed trains? As pointed out by the National Transport Development Policy Committee (NTDPC), whose report I mentioned in my 7 July piece, with the construction and commissioning of DFCs, freight trains would get substantially diverted to the new freight corridors. This would present an opportunity to increase the maximum permissible speed of passenger trains on the existing corridors to 160-200 kmph (at present the maximum permissible speed for passenger trains is 150 kmph for a few trains and the average commercial speed is in the range of 70 kmph). This would, in turn, enable operation of overnight inter-city services in the distance range of 1,000-1,500 km, as also help connect cities within distance of 500-700 km with high-speed day services.
Increasing speeds to 160-200 kmph would need inputs by way of removal of speed restrictions, yard remodelling, fencing, improved signalling, easing of sharp curves and so on. The most opportune time would be to commence the exercise and implement the scheme when any section of the DFC gets commissioned, relieving the pressure of operating freight trains on an existing congested section.
For instance, as the NTDPC has calculated, with trains travelling at these speeds, one would be able to travel from Delhi to Mumbai in 11.5 hours instead of the current 16 (Rajdhani Express), Chennai to Delhi in 18 hours instead of the current 28 (Rajdhani), and from Mumbai to Ahmedabad in four hours (as opposed to the three hours envisaged for the first proposed bullet train).
Until the DFCs are complete (and they are, as I said, the most vital railway project for the economy), passenger trains travelling at this speed will slow down freight traffic and other passenger trains even more, and congest the network even further. This is the smartest way to build the high-speed rail network. Focus on the DFCs and piggyback the high-speed passenger trains on them. Of course, this means we will have to wait a bit, but in the long term, this will be the best for the railways and the economy.
.......................
Gowda is willing to allow foreign direct investment (FDI) upto 100% in railways, other than operations. But which foreign firm will invest in an entity which has no credible accounting standards? The accounting system of the Indian Railways is organised to cater to government budget and control functions and does not follow accounting norms as prescribed in the Companies Act. The financial results of the Indian Railways, as presented to Parliament and for public information, include a Statement of Revenue Receipts and Expenditure (Profit and Loss account) and a Balance Sheet, but the contents of these documents depart substantially from the disclosure standards that are expected of going concern entities.
In other words, the Indian Railways’ accounts are not available in a format that is readily interpretable by lenders and investors. The present system of accounting does not give a true and fair financial picture. For example, the balance sheet does not show depreciation provisions and as a result it is impossible to ascertain the net block. Similarly, there is a no clear separation between revenue and capital, or between ‘top of the line’ and ‘below the line’, and the data is presented in a way in which one cannot ascertain labour productivity or employee cost.
This actually funny! Neither the government nor the Railway Board has any clue how the organisation would fare if its accounts were presented as per the Indian GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) followed by companies incorporated under the Companies Act.
Till date, every bit of superior execution had a plan that was communicated well in advance as a vision. For example, 24x7 electricity was promised and to achieve that distribution lines were duplicated for different sector. And 24x7 power guarantee was pretty revolutionary as well as measurable target vs platitudes like "world class" etc etc.Gus wrote:the difference will be on execution and that we will have to wait and see.
Any open source news item corroborating the same in case of WB? Genuinely want to know as I have not read anything in english media or ABP/EiSamay.Supratik wrote:I believe the LA has progressed well in WB inspite of the hysterical lady.
From thisSupratik wrote:http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/new ... 949187.ece
* This year >> dedicated freight corridor along the 534 km stretch from Son Nagar in Bihar to the terminal point at Dankuni near Kolkata
* part of the proposed 1,839 km rail corridor from Ludhiana in Punjab to Dankuni in West Bengal.
* Dedicated Freight Corridor Corporation of India (DFCC) builds northern part of the corridor & eastern part will be developed through public-private partnership.
* DFCC is a special purpose vehicle floated by Indian Railways.
INVESTMENT GROWTH
* According to Singh, Indian Railways is expecting Rs. 1 lakh crore investment in Railway projects through PPP route between 2012-17.
* During the 11th Plan period, the Railways received a mere Rs. 3,000 crore investment through PPP route.
* Singh added that the Government has chalked out six unique models to relax the norms
RamaYji, check the date. UPA, as usual, was brilliant in execution, though other than HSR had similar wordings in their budget as well.RamaY wrote:From thisSupratik wrote:http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/new ... 949187.ece
* This year >> dedicated freight corridor along the 534 km stretch from Son Nagar in Bihar to the terminal point at Dankuni near Kolkata
* part of the proposed 1,839 km rail corridor from Ludhiana in Punjab to Dankuni in West Bengal.
* Dedicated Freight Corridor Corporation of India (DFCC) builds northern part of the corridor & eastern part will be developed through public-private partnership.
* DFCC is a special purpose vehicle floated by Indian Railways.
INVESTMENT GROWTH
* According to Singh, Indian Railways is expecting Rs. 1 lakh crore investment in Railway projects through PPP route between 2012-17.
* During the 11th Plan period, the Railways received a mere Rs. 3,000 crore investment through PPP route.
* Singh added that the Government has chalked out six unique models to relax the norms
for the nation.What is difficult to understand is your assertion that if X talks about safety and Y talks about safety X == Y.Picklu wrote:Sanku,
No, not "they are just talking about stuff"
but "they are just talking about same old stuff that every past rail minister talked about but did not really work"
and that is called lack of vision. What is so difficult to understand?
Picklu ji, you are basically making up stuff to justify the original untenable diatribe of yours. All this stuff about arbitrarily making random statements likePicklu wrote:Till date, every bit of superior execution had a plan that was communicated well in advance as a vision. For example, 24x7 electricity was promised and to achieve that distribution lines were duplicated for different sector.Gus wrote:the difference will be on execution and that we will have to wait and see.
There is no such random statement or assertion.Sanku wrote:
What is difficult to understand is your assertion that if X talks about safety and Y talks about safety X == Y.
And this assertion based on yet another random statement of your own.
Sanku wrote: Picklu ji, You have held the criticism of BJP and NaMo non stop for quite some time. Why pretend this has anything to with the budget ?
If your complaint is that the rail minister did not give you the detailed 300 page reports for each of the visions mentioned in the budget. Please keep goingPicklu wrote: Either you communicate the plan why the outcome from Y will be different from intention of X OR have blind faith in the execution power of Y.
but kindly dont masquerade the statement of "oh he did not tell me how the bolts will be tightened so he has no vision and also he does not know how to tighten bolts" type of essentially poor logical construction.Your absolve the budget is about 1/1000000000 times as meaningful as that Amartya "Nalanda" Sen of "I can allow him to be a secular PM" -- your statements are random, confused, and of poor logical consistency and highly incorrect in terms of various statements on infra basics and assertions on budget details.I do believe Y is a better executioner than X, does not absolve the budget from being KLPD though.
Why dont we start with your attack on the NaMo govts plans to kick out the illegal Bangladeshi scum and trying to make it sound it was an attack on all Bengalis ?Picklu wrote:Sanku wrote: Picklu ji, You have held the criticism of BJP and NaMo non stop for quite some time. Why pretend this has anything to with the budget ?
Proof? Attack the postor with falsehood, eh?
Again, there was no attack on the NaMo govt but practical problems with possible solution was pointed out. No where NaMoji or BJP was attacked. You need to improve your reading skill.Sanku wrote: Why dont we start with your attack on the NaMo govts plans to kick out the illegal Bangladeshi scum and trying to make it sound it was an attack on all Bengalis ?
Yes you never attack NaMo and BJP directly, but only, constantly and always provide blanket "everything is useless" about pretty much every initiative by them. Clever, but not that clever.Picklu wrote:Again, there was no attack on the NaMo govt but practical problems with possible solution was pointed out. No where NaMoji or BJP was attacked. You need to improve your reading skill.Sanku wrote: Why dont we start with your attack on the NaMo govts plans to kick out the illegal Bangladeshi scum and trying to make it sound it was an attack on all Bengalis ?
Don't need to. Have given the example of Golden Quadrangle multiple times before but then you ignore that as that does not help you to label me anti NaMo or Anti BJP.Sanku wrote: Meanwhile I stongly suggest that you look definition of words like, vision, implementation, details etc. And once you are done, maybe you can look up the basics of any long term infra dev project to understand the basics of what is being talked about.
Well then; expect to have the half baked statements get called out.Picklu wrote:Don't need to. Have given the example of Golden Quadrangle multiple times before but then you ignore that as that does not help you to prove me anti Namo or Anti BJP.Sanku wrote: Meanwhile I stongly suggest that you look definition of words like, vision, implementation, details etc. And once you are done, maybe you can look up the basics of any long term infra dev project to understand the basics of what is being talked about.
Since I do not enjoy having a rap sheet 3 mile long, I will be over and out even though I did not indulge in any personal attack or innuendo or out of topic discussion unlike the other poster is so eager to do without providing any cogent information on the current budget.Theo_Fidel wrote:Thread derail on the Indian Railways thread. Oh! The humanity.....
But, but this is one derailment that can only bring smiles and not tears. The masala was missing from the dhaga.Theo_Fidel wrote:Thread derail on the Indian Railways thread. Oh! The humanity.....
for the new line work between Palani and Erode in TN (91kms) . This is what I call strategic vision you do known what for that 100 cr is right ???Javee wrote:Hah, at least HSR got 100 crores, our esteemed railway minister has allocated 1 lakh rupees
On a lighter note,
http://www.thehindu.com/features/metrop ... 177498.ece
Amit, not judging the minister or PM or Govt or BJP, judging THIS (2014-15) budget - an important distinction. I am sure better budgets will come later once NaMoji is more in control. But this budget appears to be a missed opportunity. The reason for that are many and all mostly valid but still, sigh......amit wrote:In defence of the Rail Minister I would say he shouldn't be judged by the first budget as shouldn't FM later today.