Indian Railways Thread

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Sachin » 03 Mar 2015 09:28

Suraj wrote: They could only do this effectively once the trackage and signalling could support such throughput without slow trains holding up fast ones.

Then we should really see what the Chinese have done. No harm in copying a good working system. Because this issue of too many trains on too less a track is the problem which IR is also facing. In many areas the trunk routes are saturated. With the existing signalling systems, new trains cannot be introduced. Slow moving passenger/commuters share the same track (and the time slots with minor differences) with Express and Superfast trains. The divisional controllers sitting at the Div H.Q have to do the jugglery and instruct Station Masters en-route to pull over some trains, and allow some others to proceed etc. These are all done using telephones.

Even without planning for Shinkansen type bullet trains, IR can make a lot of improvement (which also has a psychological impact) if the speed levels are increased marginally - but all across the board. So DEMUs,MEMUs for local commuter/passenger trains, and more "train sets" based trains for a few special trains (Intercity Express, Shatabdi etc.) for a start. This itself may improve IRs image.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Suraj » 03 Mar 2015 10:11

Here's a secret about the Shinkansens: they 'only' average ~200km/h . Tokyo-Osaka is 515km, which I've done multiple times, takes just under 2.5hrs by the Nozomi, which is the fastest of the 3 services on the Tokaido Shinkansen line between Tokyo and Osaka. That's ~210km/h. The Nozomi stops at Tokyo, Shinagawa (south Tokyo), Yokohama, Nagoya, Kyoto and finally Osaka. Yokohama-Nagoya is a >300km long high speed run, and Nagoya-Kyoto is >100km, but the rest are stop and start.

It actually takes just effective but not extremely costly route throughput and signal upgradation to get average speed up to 120-130km/h . Getting average speed above 150km/h takes some serious effort, but even without that, we can transform the face of long distance train travel by faster average speeds. 120km/h average itself is a whole 50% higher than the fastest trains in India, meaning each journey is 2/3rds of the original time, for the very fastest trains. For the rest of the trundlers, it's much higher. 2/3rds of current duration for Chennai Rajdhani makes is an 18hr trip. A lot of people would use it if a 140km/h average speed permits 16hr trips to Delhi, I think.

The Chinese didn't do anything fancy. They double, triple or quad tracked sections, electrified them, and invested in signalling. That's enough for many long stretches simply because there's no longer any track jugglery to do to keep slower and faster trains running together. The result was they could run a range of services on common tracks, except for the highest end HSRs built recently. We can do the same - just getting to 200-225km/h peak and sustained speeds around 160km/h, yielding average speeds of 120-140km/h is plenty enough to transform the face of IR in the immediate future.

IR can also cut down train lengths once there's better throughput. The long 25-car trains area tradeoff, because they cannot handle signaling of so many more trains of different speeds on a double-tracked line with dated signaling. Shorter trains also accelerate and decelerate faster. Of course, the Shinkansens do have 16-car trains, but they're not locomotive driven. Instead, all Shinkansens are EMUs. Even the German ICE3 is an EMU. Only the French TGV is a locomotive driven train, and that was because the original TGV prototype was gas turbine driven. They changed the design to electric after the 1973 oil price shock.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Singha » 03 Mar 2015 10:33

there is another angle to it. faster the train better the quality of the rail, sleepers and bridges need to be. Theo sir had posted comments on this. maybe upto around 150kmph peak speed its not that hard to glue up the current infra, but beyond that its very costly and needs very detailed engineering. in the wake of cheen HSR crash, he had analyzed photos of the crash and pointed out places where the chinese had cut corners in construction and compared to pix of the TGV system which was mm perfect and aerospace grade work.

the 1000s of old bridges and culverts in the IR will surely need to be fixed if we are going to have 1000s of trains marching around at 100kmph avg+ without "slow sections" to handle these weak infra. there are ancient bridges crossing major rivers also where trains inevitably slow down.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Kashi » 03 Mar 2015 10:36

Suraj wrote:Here's a secret about the Shinkansens: they 'only' average ~200km/h . Tokyo-Osaka is 515km, which I've done multiple times, takes just under 2.5hrs by the Nozomi, which is the fastest of the 3 services on the Tokaido Shinkansen line between Tokyo and Osaka. That's ~210km/h.


I believe that's also due to noise regulations in place and the fact that the Tokaido route has relatively sharper curves, about 2.5 km. But starting this spring, they'll be allowing the new N700A series trains to take the curves at higher speeds and also the maximum permissible speed has been upped from 255kmph to 270 kmph on the curves.

Of course the Chuo Shinkansen will be a different beast altogether :)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Hitesh » 03 Mar 2015 21:34

Would India not be better off by building a more efficient air transport and road network than plopping hundreds of billions of dollars into railroad networks? Air and road network offers the flexibility and turnaround rates that Indian railroads cannot offer. With railroads, you are a slave to the fixed routes and schedules. With air transport and road networks, you are not a slave to fixed routes and schedules. You can adjust whenever the situation calls for it.

Moreover, by investing more into the air and road network, India can utilized its "Make in India" philosophy by building manufacturers of planes equivalent to 320s or 737s, manufacturers equivalent to Caterpillars and etc.,

I have a hard time seeing how high speed railroads can function in a 21st century modern scape and make any money given the intense competitions from bus companies and airline companies.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby panduranghari » 03 Mar 2015 21:45

Isn't rail the cheapest and quickest form of mass transport? Isn't that the reason why Buffet is POURING money into buying US rail assets. Something adds up.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Rahul M » 03 Mar 2015 21:48

I would rather not become dependent on fossil fuel fired system. mass passenger transport should remain with railways.
that said, there's space for all three. rail cant cover every nook and crany.

with aircraft you are anyway tied to schedules, you cant just fly your jet to your destination unless you are ambani.

railways are also cheaper in the long run and scalable.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Virupaksha » 03 Mar 2015 22:07

rail is even today cheaper for goods. Infact imagine this, even with passenger traffic given precedence over goods in signalling, it is the goods which subsidizes the passenger traffic heavily.

The real difficulty is this - cost. A trip in a new york metro is around 150Rs (2.25$) and the service there is not even good, a comparative in mumbai is around 20rs. With only variation being salaries, a trip of 1000km on indian railways for reserved sleeper is around 400Rs(7$), general is around 100Rs(2$), the same thing on buses will be around 800-1000Rs minimum with ac ones around 2000Rs.
A redbus in US generally costs around 2400$ and one has to stand on the road on footpath, weathering it out. The security in grey hounds is a joke.

Passenger to passenger or cost to cost, trains in india leave far behind road and air transportation. The number one gripe of 90% travellers in India is there are not enough trains/seats, service comes after they are able to get on train. Infact 95% are happy with speeds. I would venture that most of the unhappy guys are the ac guys.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Hitesh » 03 Mar 2015 22:23

There are research and development that calls for fossil fuel free jet engines and bus and VTOL capability. If that happens, costs will come down dramatically as the emerging technology will do away with expensive long runways and expensive airport terminals and airline prices could become a fixed cost because the fossil fuels and their inherent price volatility would be eliminated from the price/cost, not to mention that airlines get to locations faster and more efficient with the expansion of air traffic control systems.

Furthermore, there are firms trying to develop and translate the concept of flying cars into a workable practical product. Once that happens, railroads and even airlines would quickly become dinosaurs.

The reason why I am bring this up because to get the high speed railroad, you have to sink in hundreds of billions dollars and it will take at least 30 years to see the full return of those monies back. In that 30 year timeframe, I have no doubt that new technology would come up and render those high speed railroads obsolete and irrelevant and India would be stuck with the huge losses.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Suraj » 03 Mar 2015 22:31

Please stop discussing hydrocarbon-free planes and flying cars here. This is the railway thread, not the futurama thread.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Rahul M » 03 Mar 2015 22:36

hitesh, no one is arguing for hi-speed rail in this thread. the consensus is we should learn to walk first i.e semi-HSR. get avg speed to 120-130 kmph range from current ~ 70kmph for express trains.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby negi » 03 Mar 2015 22:41

Even before average speed a lot of trains are made to stop at stations just because the local MLA placed in a request to rail mantri to have a train stop at a station in his constituency . Ram Vilas Paswan , Lalloo and all such jokers treated Railway dept. as if they got it in dowry.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Suraj » 03 Mar 2015 22:58

Once the major lines are triple or quad tracked and signalling upgraded, they can offer various tiers of services, ranging from Express to Mail to MLA/MP Dowry Service.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby hanumadu » 03 Mar 2015 23:05

Suraj wrote:Once the major lines are triple or quad tracked and signalling upgraded, they can offer various tiers of services, ranging from Express to Mail to MLA/MP Dowry Service.


Won't adding more tracks require land to be obtained? And of course more bridges, over passes and under passes? More than the cost and time for construction, acquiring the necessary land would be cumbersome and time consuming.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby SaiK » 03 Mar 2015 23:15

doubling, tripling or quadrupling tracks are expensive when you consider them made for one type to another. why spend billions for 130kmph wala, when you can straight away do it as 200kmph walas? [provided we have the railway services planned for this - system controls, coach designs, collision prevention systems, etc.] it is massive investment, and we don't want to move from one design to another in a jiffy, because that is simply not possible. there is no point in track upgrades when you don't have your service system ready to use it.

we have to see if the existing upgrade makes sense\? how much of money we need to improve existing system? can we invest in entirely new system that would last for another 200 odd years? etc.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Suraj » 03 Mar 2015 23:45

hanumadu wrote:Won't adding more tracks require land to be obtained? And of course more bridges, over passes and under passes? More than the cost and time for construction, acquiring the necessary land would be cumbersome and time consuming.

My recollection from a past post or reference material is that the right of way acquired with future expansion in mind, but that actual construction of the additional lines did not happen then, for cost reasons. It's possible they'll still have to upgrade the bridges and culverts anyway, but I *think* the land part is not a major concern. Closer rail watchers can rip this post apart though :)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby panduranghari » 04 Mar 2015 01:06

Suraj wrote:Once the major lines are triple or quad tracked and signalling upgraded, they can offer various tiers of services, ranging from Express to Mail to MLA/MP Dowry Service.


:rotfl: true that.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Suraj » 04 Mar 2015 04:27

Kotak Securities has a nice summary of the railway budget capex plan:
Railways: On a long, sure track to growth
The Railway budget continued to focus on the long-term health and turnaround of the Indian Railways. In a departure from the earlier budget’s trend of announcing new routes, this budget focused on a more efficient utilisation of existing routes through new tracks and gauge conversions. While FY16’s investment plan is 52% higher than FY15’s, implementation of the plan will be the real test for the government.

Record Plan outlay; gross budgetary support of R400 bn: The Plan outlay for FY16 has been budgeted at R1.0 trillion—52% higher than the outlay of R658 billion for FY15 (revised estimates). This is proposed to be financed by (i) Gross budgetary support of R400 bn (FY15RE was at R301 bn), (ii) internal resources (R178 bn), (iii) market borrowings (R177 bn), (iv) PPP investment (R57 bn) and (v) safety fund (R16 bn). In addition, the ministry also introduced a new financing route based on institutional investments (possibly bilateral/multilateral funding) of R171 bn.

This will be aimed at accelerating the completion of capacity-augmentation projects.

Sharp improvement in operating ratio: The operating ratio has been budgeted to be brought down to 88.5% from 91.8% in FY15 (FY14 was at 93.6%) . This is projected to be achieved through a 13.6% increase in goods earnings and 16.7% increase in passenger earnings over FY15.

Along with strong earnings projection, the operating ratio is estimated to move lower on muted expenditure growth of 11.2%. Fuel cost is estimated to be almost flat compared with FY15, which is likely to help in keeping expenses under check.

Focus on efficient use of routes: Unlike the past few years, the investment plan is clearly in favour of (i) gauge conversion, (ii) doubling of lines, (iii) new lines and (iv) traffic facilities. Allocations for doubling of tracks and traffic facilities are up 335% and 147%, respectively, over FY15. But for gauge conversion, the rise is only 62%. The focus has not been on new train routes but on increasing the efficiency of existing routes. The railway minister highlighted that out of 1,200 sections on the high-density network, 40% is operating above 100% capacity and 12% is operating at 80-100% capacity.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby negi » 04 Mar 2015 09:57

Suraj wrote:My recollection from a past post or reference material is that the right of way acquired with future expansion in mind, but that actual construction of the additional lines did not happen then, for cost reasons. It's possible they'll still have to upgrade the bridges and culverts anyway, but I *think* the land part is not a major concern. Closer rail watchers can rip this post apart though :)

You do not need to be a rail watcher , moment gobermund allocates say a 100km by 25 meter patch for rail , on ground the actual used patch will be 100km by say 15 meter 5 is a buffer for installing electric poles and rest 5 for safety , however if this section passes via a village or a small town people start encroaching upon that 5 meter patch.

Classic example is NH4 there is about 390 km of NH4 which goes from Bangalore right upto Hubli , there are sections near Tumkur and Chitradurga where people have built shops and dhabas right next to the highway , today it might seem like a nice thing to highway bound folks for taking a quick snack but in future these places will cause huge headache if highway has to be broadened.

Land acquisition alone is not enough it needs to be secured. Unless that is done phased infrastructure projects will not take off.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Prasad » 04 Mar 2015 11:58

More on why new trains are just not what we need right now but increasing capacity - http://24coaches.com/why-were-there-no- ... ay-budget/

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby SBajwa » 05 Mar 2015 21:07

You do not need to be a rail watcher , moment gobermund allocates say a 100km by 25 meter patch for rail , on ground the actual used patch will be 100km by say 15 meter 5 is a buffer for installing electric poles and rest 5 for safety , however if this section passes via a village or a small town people start encroaching upon that 5 meter patch.


Thinking about the future generations! If the Land Acquisition bill is passed then GOI needs to make sure that

Estimating for golden quadrangle if GOI decides to acquire an Acre next to current line.

1. Delhi to Mumbai (1 Acre/4000 SQ metres by 1500 kms) Average of 1 crore each acre means 1500 crores
2. Delhi to Calcutta (same for 1500 kms) 1500 crores.
3. Mumbai to Chennai (1500 kms) 1500 crores.
4. Chennai to Calcutta (1700 kms) 1700 crores.

Land for 6200 crores for Golden Quadrangle. Let's keep 8000 crores for this land.

In this acquired acre next to the current land., Railways should use whatever they want and plant trees on the rest so that people are stopped from encroaching.

will something like this work for India?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby hanumadu » 11 Mar 2015 17:57

cross post:

pankajs wrote:
EconomicTimes ‏@EconomicTimes 18m18 minutes ago

#LIC to invest Rs 1.5 lakh crore in #IndianRailways over next 5 years http://ow.ly/Kbsd9


LIC - 1.5 lakh crore
union Budget support - 3 lakh crore (This year it is 50000 crore)
Railways internal funds - 1.2 lakh crore

That's 5.7 lakh crore out of the 8.7 lakh crore estimated in the road map presented in this years budget.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby a_bharat » 11 Mar 2015 18:11

SBajwa wrote:
You do not need to be a rail watcher , moment gobermund allocates say a 100km by 25 meter patch for rail , on ground the actual used patch will be 100km by say 15 meter 5 is a buffer for installing electric poles and rest 5 for safety , however if this section passes via a village or a small town people start encroaching upon that 5 meter patch.


Thinking about the future generations! If the Land Acquisition bill is passed then GOI needs to make sure that

Estimating for golden quadrangle if GOI decides to acquire an Acre next to current line.

1. Delhi to Mumbai (1 Acre/4000 SQ metres by 1500 kms) Average of 1 crore each acre means 1500 crores
2. Delhi to Calcutta (same for 1500 kms) 1500 crores.
3. Mumbai to Chennai (1500 kms) 1500 crores.
4. Chennai to Calcutta (1700 kms) 1700 crores.

Land for 6200 crores for Golden Quadrangle. Let's keep 8000 crores for this land.

In this acquired acre next to the current land., Railways should use whatever they want and plant trees on the rest so that people are stopped from encroaching.

will something like this work for India?


25m x 1000m is approx 6.2 acres per km. So you need 50000 crores (@ 1cr/acre) to get a 25m patch along golden quad using the above numbers. But 1 cr/acre is too high in most rural areas even at 4x compensation. I think it will be more like 30L per acre on the average (rural + urban).

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby ldev » 14 Mar 2015 22:08

India leaning toward Japan's bullet train tech

March 5, 2015 12:00 am JST
SATOSHI IWAKI, Nikkei staff writer

NEW DELHI -- Japan's shinkansen bullet train technology is the leading candidate for a planned 500km railway linking the western city of Mumbai and the state of Gujarat to the north, the first step in India's extensive high-speed rail project.

The Indian and Japanese governments initiated a joint feasibility study in late 2013, and a final report is to be released in July 2015.

The Japan International Cooperation Agency, which is participating in the study, told participants at a Feb. 28 high-speed rail seminar in New Delhi that the report will likely recommend that Japan's bullet train technology is the most appropriate option.

A top official in India's Ministry of Railways told The Nikkei that Japan's technology is the world's best and that India hopes to work on this project with Japan.

The Japanese contingent at the seminar included Issei Kitagawa, state vice-minister of transport; Yuji Fukasawa, executive vice president at East Japan Railway, which hopes to win orders for the project as part of a consortium of Japanese companies; Tadaharu Ohashi, a counselor at Kawasaki Heavy Industries; and top Hitachi officials.

With construction likely to start as early as 2017, India and Japan will quickly work out the necessary details, such as fundraising, as soon as the study is complete. Plans include combining official development assistance from JICA with an infrastructure fund set up by Japan's transport ministry.

What Modi wants

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who has been working to revive manufacturing with the "Make in India" initiative, will probably require that rolling stock be built locally. How much Japanese companies will cede to India's demands will be a point of interest.

The railway linking Mumbai and Ahmedabad will cost 700-800 billion rupees ($11.3 billion to $12.9 billion), including 12 stations to be built along the route, the Indian government said. The train will have a top speed of 320kph, slashing travel time to around two and a half hours from about eight hours now.


India plans to build nine railways linking the major cities of Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkata, which has been dubbed the Diamond Quadrilateral project.

Since the Mumbai-Ahmedabad railway requires tunneling beneath a river, India favors Japanese drilling technology, which was used in such projects as the Seikan Tunnel linking Japan's main island with the northern island of Hokkaido. India also focused on Japan's safety record, with no passenger deaths in 50 years of operation, and know-how allowing trains to run at intervals of several minutes.

France, Spain and China also have shown interest in India's high-speed rail plans, and competition over the other routes will likely remain fierce.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby vipins » 15 Mar 2015 00:06

clean my coach by Central Railways
On board housekeeping service (OBHS) is provided to facilitate cleaning of coaches during run of train itself. The OBHS includes scheduled cleaning of coaches twice in a day and unscheduled cleaning at any time on demand of passenger.

Passengers may demand cleaning staff by entering PNR in the form given above. Passengers may also send their requests as SMS to 58888 by typing CLEAN < Space >< 10-digit PNR number >. The software named OBSERVE (On Board Services) will forward the request to mobile phone of the cleaner present in the particular train directly. The Railway Administration will also simultaneously receive an intimation of such requests for follow up. The train cleaner through this website and SMS system is presently available for a few selected trains given in the list (OBSERVE TRAINS).



Thumbs up for ‘clean my coach’

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Prem » 16 Mar 2015 07:59

ldev wrote:India leaning toward Japan's bullet train tech Since the Mumbai-Ahmedabad railway requires tunneling beneath a river, India favors Japanese drilling technology, which was used in such projects as the Seikan Tunnel linking Japan's main island with the northern island of Hokkaido. India also focused on Japan's safety record, with no passenger deaths in 50 years of operation, and know-how allowing trains to run at intervals of several minutes.


Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2015 09:24

trailing edge train tech from japan around 250kmph cruising could be cheaper and easier to maintain than the f22 std. they went past that level decades ago.

one has to factor in the cost of tracks, bridges and signaling rises as the speed increases, not just the cost of the train itself.

people may snigger at the antique shinkansens but if they come cheap and are reliable and turn a profit, why snigger?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Pratyush » 16 Mar 2015 17:04

The old trains may not be cheap, as the industrial skills needed to make them would have been superseded by the new tech. Even if, the skills needed to maintain them is still available.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby ldev » 16 Mar 2015 19:52

>>one has to factor in the cost of tracks, bridges and signaling rises as the speed increases, not just the cost of the train itself.

Absolutely, this is what the Railway Minister said in the Lok Sabha today:

Construction of one kilometer of high speed railway track will cost Rs. 100-140 crore and the country will need a total of Rs. 80,000 crore to lay the entire high speed train corridor, Lok Sabha was informed today.

Railway Minister Suresh Prabhu said the cost of laying one km of high speed track was 10 to 14 times higher than the construction of a normal railway track.
Link

On a less serious note, Rajnath Singh in Tokyo, taking a ride on the Shinkansen:

Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Supratik » 16 Mar 2015 21:03

RFQ for two engine plants are going out. These are going to be PPP projects with the likes of GE, Bombardier, etc. Next should hopefully go for coaches to upgrade the premier services.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2015 21:12

Maybe get some tech for 200kmph from japan and make in india for widespread use as tracks are brought up to par. Better than a single ckd white elephant that will never break even.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Supratik » 16 Mar 2015 21:23

No big country has gone for HSR except China. There must be a reason why even US has not gone for it. May be it makes less economic sense for them when people can simply fly or drive on expressways. It should be taken up with extreme precaution.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby pankajs » 16 Mar 2015 21:31

The HSR plans should be held in abeyance and the first focus should be on getting the current system fixed.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby krisna » 17 Mar 2015 00:54

Heard that Delhi and lucknow stations have got Wifi free for 30 minutes. Ond can check train timing etc.
But commuters. Not exactly pleased due to slowness or not working.
Some appreciative that something's are changing
And to expand to many more railway stations

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Pratyush » 17 Mar 2015 09:26

Supratik wrote:RFQ for two engine plants are going out. These are going to be PPP projects with the likes of GE, Bombardier, etc. Next should hopefully go for coaches to upgrade the premier services.


The diesel plant was supposed to be green field facility in Bihar with installed capacity of 800 units P.A. But this was before NiKu put on the suicide vest. Will he in his current avatar, allow for the acquisition of land in order to build the plant.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Suraj » 17 Mar 2015 10:03

The Bihar plant is more particular for the kind of locomotives they plan to build:
Railways Ministry Approves Rs 2400Cr FDI In Bihar Locomotive Projects
As per the proposed plan, two locomotive factories would be established in Madhepura and Marhora which are in Bihar. Total investments in each of these factories would be Rs 1200 crore, which means total investments would be worth Rs 2400 crore. These two projects would be under public-private partnership with Railways having 26% and foreign investors having 76% stake.

Factory in Madhepura will manufacture 800 electric locomotives over a period of 11 years. Each of such engine would be 12,000 Horse Power strength. Out of 800, it has been proposed that 5 would be imported and 795 would be manufactured in-house.

Marhora factory will manufacture 4500 Horse Power and 6000 Horse Power diesel locomotives, using modern technology. Over a period of 10 years, this plant is expected to produce 1000 diesel engines for Indian Railways. 700 locomotives of 4500 HP and 300 locomotives of 6000 HP would be manufactured.

Those are tremendously powerful engines. The most powerful electric locomotives currently in use by IR are the 6350hp WAP7/WAG9 engines. The most powerful diesels are the 5500hp WDG5 . This is a pretty big jump from that, especially the focus on incredibly high power electric locos, which will probably run on the dedicated freight corridors. At 12000hp, they would be the most powerful electric locomotives in the world after the China Railways HDX2, which outputs 12800hp . They too followed the FDI approach, JVing with Alstom and Bombardier.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Singha » 17 Mar 2015 10:11

all new locos in IR should be mandated to have air conditioning, better seating and a toilet behind the cabin. there is space and plenty enough electric power in any loco to run a small 0.5t AC. this should have been done long long ago.

when speeds increase it pays to keep the operator as comfortable and alert as possible. the higher tech cockpit avionics will also be more reliable in a controlled sealed cabin.

the cabin should also have vibration and noise insulation means and a air filter to remove diesel residues and dust.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Gyan » 17 Mar 2015 13:05

As per the proposed plan, two locomotive factories would be established in Madhepura and Marhora which are in Bihar. Total investments in each of these factories would be Rs 1200 crore, which means total investments would be worth Rs 2400 crore. These two projects would be under public-private partnership with Railways having 26% and foreign investors having 76% stake.

Factory in Madhepura will manufacture 800 electric locomotives over a period of 11 years. Each of such engine would be 12,000 Horse Power strength. Out of 800, it has been proposed that 5 would be imported and 795 would be manufactured in-house.

Marhora factory will manufacture 4500 Horse Power and 6000 Horse Power diesel locomotives, using modern technology. Over a period of 10 years, this plant is expected to produce 1000 diesel engines for Indian Railways. 700 locomotives of 4500 HP and 300 locomotives of 6000 HP would be manufactured.


Am I to believe as a sole buyer, Railways cannot negotiate management control and needs to handover 74% into foreign hands? This deal is a handover from UPA era when they wanted to hand over all the Railway engine manufacturing to foreign interests. It is better to make JV with 26% to Govt of India 26% to foreign interests and 26% to strategic Indian Pvt sector partner with 22% of general public.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby pankajs » 17 Mar 2015 13:15

The deal is inline with Modi's vision of inviting FDI up to 100%. Suraj saars comments on this point lays it out quite well.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread

Postby Sachin » 17 Mar 2015 13:56

Singha wrote:all new locos in IR should be mandated to have air conditioning, better seating and a toilet behind the cabin. there is space and plenty enough electric power in any loco to run a small 0.5t AC. this should have been done long long ago

It seems some over-smart babu found out that giving the bare minimum comfort for an engine driver would make him doze of on the job. So ensure that he works in a very uncomfortable cabin. In the old ALCO locos (WDM, WDM2 etc) the drivers used to sit on a "bar stool" kind of seat, with not even a back rest! And this when their duty turns were like 6 hours on the loco (total work hours 8 hours at least). These things have to be corrected.

Gyan wrote:Am I to believe as a sole buyer, Railways cannot negotiate management control and needs to handover 74% into foreign hands?

Not sure if my memory is right. I remember reading that the new plan is that when such factories gets going (with private and international partner-ships), they also would work on exporting their end products. That means, IR would not be their sole customer. If I get it right companies like Bombardier makes coaches for many different railways, with perhaps minor variations. The coach factory to come up at Palakkad, Kerala also I guess had similar challenges. State was expecting a majority state owned factory only making coaches for IR, where as Modi & Co stated that, it cannot be 100% state owned, private parties would have a strong say and coaches would be internationally exportable as well. I guess Kerala folks were expecting a typical PSU, which has tremendous potential for local "leader of the peebles" ;).


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