F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

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k prasad
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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby k prasad » 25 May 2009 17:29

dorai wrote:Just a notice that the Rafale T/W is not correct on the English wikipedia.

Rafale C has 4750Kg of internal fuel as this photo shows (Dassault's web confirm):

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6766/kerorafale.jpg
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/def ... s.html?L=1

With the empty weight 9500Kg the AB T/W on Rafale C is 1,08 not 1.13 as the wiki says. That is before adding pilot and weapons. The Rafale M has a ratio of 1.03.

I don't want to debate this but just issue a warning about wiki info (should not need to tell anyone this...) and many people are too lazy to check the sources. The page editors also ignore multiple official sources on max speed being M1.8 and instead use a rare source for M2.0. I don't know what else is made to look better than reality...


Thanks a ton for that Dorai.... just a clarification... are you referring to the MRCA page on wiki or the Rafale page??

If you are talking about teh MRCA page, then, unfortunately, I am one of those lazy editors on the page. Thanks for the link. If its the Rafale page, I'm keeping off that, since it is a french bastion, and any changes lead to adverse reactions (there is a lot more politics in wiki than people realize - try editing the 1971 war page for a taste. :-P)

I think the 1.13 is gotten from 75 kN * 2 engines = 150 kN / 9.8 = 15306 kgf.

15306 kgf/[(9060kg + 4700 kg intl fuel) = 13760 kg] = 1.13 TWR.

If the empty weight is 9500 kg, then the TWR goes down to 1.09. Unfortunately, the rafale link says 10 k class. I'm not sure about the source of the 9060 data, but I believe that has come from an official Dassault or Armee D'Air source. However, if there are any changes, will update them asap.

As for speed, the Dassault link says M1.8+, and I have changed the info accordingly to add the '+'

i have corrected the data... do let me know if there are any further changes to be made.

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby dorai » 18 Jun 2009 01:09

Raven radar equipped Gripen to fly by year-end

By: David Donald
June 15, 2009
Aircraft

In late March Saab announced a teaming agreement with Selex Galileo to develop the ES-05 Raven active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the Gripen Next Generation fighter program. Selex Galileo is also the lead in the Euroradar consortium developing the Captor radar for the Eurofighter, while Saab Microwave Systems (formerly Ericsson) builds the mechanically scanned PS-05/A radar currently installed in the Gripen.

The Raven builds on the programs of both companies, including the antenna technology developed for Selex Galileo’s Vixen AESA family and ongoing PS-05/A development work. The radar has around 1,000 transmit/receive modules, mounted on an angled swashplate.

Swashplate technology allows the radar to be repositioned so that it scan a wider volume of sky than if it was fixed. Saab quotes a scan angle of 100 degrees from the centerline, allowing ES-05 to see targets behind the so-called “3-9 line.” The angled positioning of the antenna also helps to reduce frontal radar cross section.

A developmental version of the Raven is due to fly before the end of this year in the Gripen Demo aircraft. The Demo is a one-off test aircraft intended to de-risk the key technologies for the Gripen NG, including increased fuel capacity achieved through repositioning the main undercarriage, new avionics, additional stores pylons and the General Electric F414G engine.



http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-ne ... -year-end/

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Andrew DeCristofaro » 18 Jun 2009 01:20

k prasad wrote:
dorai wrote:Just a notice that the Rafale T/W is not correct on the English wikipedia.

Rafale C has 4750Kg of internal fuel as this photo shows (Dassault's web confirm):

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6766/kerorafale.jpg
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/def ... s.html?L=1

With the empty weight 9500Kg the AB T/W on Rafale C is 1,08 not 1.13 as the wiki says. That is before adding pilot and weapons. The Rafale M has a ratio of 1.03.

I don't want to debate this but just issue a warning about wiki info (should not need to tell anyone this...) and many people are too lazy to check the sources. The page editors also ignore multiple official sources on max speed being M1.8 and instead use a rare source for M2.0. I don't know what else is made to look better than reality...


Thanks a ton for that Dorai.... just a clarification... are you referring to the MRCA page on wiki or the Rafale page??

If you are talking about teh MRCA page, then, unfortunately, I am one of those lazy editors on the page. Thanks for the link. If its the Rafale page, I'm keeping off that, since it is a french bastion, and any changes lead to adverse reactions (there is a lot more politics in wiki than people realize - try editing the 1971 war page for a taste. :-P)

I think the 1.13 is gotten from 75 kN * 2 engines = 150 kN / 9.8 = 15306 kgf.

15306 kgf/[(9060kg + 4700 kg intl fuel) = 13760 kg] = 1.13 TWR.

If the empty weight is 9500 kg, then the TWR goes down to 1.09. Unfortunately, the rafale link says 10 k class. I'm not sure about the source of the 9060 data, but I believe that has come from an official Dassault or Armee D'Air source. However, if there are any changes, will update them asap.

As for speed, the Dassault link says M1.8+, and I have changed the info accordingly to add the '+'

i have corrected the data... do let me know if there are any further changes to be made.


although rafale's engines produce least power but rafale has got better thrust to weight ratio than f18 and f16

and less powerful engines means more saving in fuel costs

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby NRao » 24 Jul 2009 06:48

Indirectly impacts MRCA:

How robot drones revolutionized the face of warfare

(discussion/s in other appropriate thread/s please.)


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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby NRao » 26 Jul 2009 18:04


Drevin
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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Drevin » 26 Jul 2009 20:08

Looks more readable now. thanks. :P

Also one fact not true from that article: The End-User Agreement doesn't seem to have been signed by us.

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Som Mukhopadhyay » 29 Jul 2009 14:08

Rafale M Drawing

Image

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Drevin » 29 Jul 2009 20:41

wow nice details on the engine inlet. thanks.

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby dorai » 02 Aug 2009 22:10

South African Gripens get Thales recon pod.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=TOP

With that the Recon-pods on Gripen is:

Saab-Terma MRPS SPK-39 (Swedish-Danish)
http://products.saabgroup.com/PDBWebNew ... uctId=1208

Rafael Recce.Lite (Israeli)
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/area. ... &docID=915

Thales DJRP (British)
http://www.thalesgroup.com/Portfolio/Ae ... /?pid=1568

(And Rafael's Litening III with a Rover videolink but it's most of all a targeting pod imo)

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Cain Marko » 02 Aug 2009 23:58

Dunno if this has been discussed before, but the SAAB offer for the dutch cost about 4.8 billion Euros for 85 gripen NGs. This included training, support and so on (no weapons though). April 2008 prices.
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:U22iQd7IEDgJ:www.jsfnieuws.nl/wp-content/Saab_OfferGripenNG_170409.pdf+Gripen+NG+EW&hl=en&gl=us

I was looking at the EW suite and was really impressed by this little bird. Packs quite the punch. Has everything from Digital RWR, ELS, Jammers, MAWS, LWS, towed decoy, you name it.

Very, very comprehensive package overall (integrated IRST too with a swashplate AESA). Incredible range too (3500km ferry with just one EFT) and meaningful supercruise to boot. Sweet.

CM

dorai
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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby dorai » 09 Aug 2009 09:43

Put the non-French in bold. Those with two countries imply a foreign location but French-owned.

http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_detai ... ult_Rafale

Dassault Rafale
Twin turbofan multi mission fighter.

This page lists the major suppliers to the Dassault Rafale aircraft program.

Manufacturer
Dassault Aviation (France)

Suppliers

Materials / Composites
Hexcel Composites (USA) Carbon Fibre: Carbon fibers, structural adhesives, honeycombs, prepregs, sandwich panels and reinforcement fabrics

Materials / Lubricants
Orelube Corporation (USA) Synthetic Lubricants: Boelube

Components / Electrical Components
Labinal (France) Wire Harnesses: Electrical wiring systems

Components / Fasteners
Avibank Mfg. Inc. (USA) Pins, bolts, fasteners & accessories

Components / Mechanical Components
Eaton Aerospace Phelps Valve (USA) Pumps, valves, level sensors, pressure switches, refuel/defuel manifolds, and couplings

Components / Sensors, Transducers & Detectors
Goodrich Sensors & Integrated Systems (USA) Sensors/Transducers: Pitot probe; ice detectors; air data total air temperature sensors

Airframe Systems / Airframe Assemblies
Saint-Gobain Sully (France) Transparent Canopies: Blister windscreen/canopy, gold coated to reduce radar reflection

Airframe Systems / Crew Seating
Martin Baker Aircraft (United Kingdom) Ejector Seats: Mk 16 zero/zero ejection seat

Airframe Systems / Environmental Systems
Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH (Germany) Cabin Pressure Control Systems:
Technofan (France) Air Conditioning Equipment: Cockpit air conditioning system

Airframe Systems / Landing Assemblies
Messier-Bugatti (France) Carbon Brakes: ; Brake-by-Wire Systems:
Messier-Dowty (France) Aircraft Landing Gear: Main landing gear & nose landing gear

Airframe Systems / Oxygen Systems & Equipment
Air Liquide (France) Oxygen Generation Systems: OBOGS

Airframe Systems / Safety & Security Systems
Ducommun Technologies, Inc. (USA) Warning Systems/Equipment: Master caution and warning assemblies
L'Hotellier (France/USA) Fire Fighting/Detection Systems: Fire detection and extinction

Airframe Systems / Weapons Systems
Thales Airborne Systems (France) Surveillance/Air Defense Radar: RBE-2 active electronically scanned array radar
Thales North America Inc. (France/USA) Electronic Warfare Systems: SPECTRA integrated electronic warfare system operating in electromagnetic, laser and infra-red domains

Avionics / Flight and Data Management
Moog Controls (UK) Automatic Flight Control Systems: Primary flight controls

Avionics / Imaging and Visual Systems
Thales Optronics (Bury St Edmunds) Limited (France/UK) Airborne Reconnaissance Infrared: Front sector optronic system

Power Systems / Auxiliary Power
Microturbo S.A. (France) Auxiliary Power Units: Rubis 305 APU

Power Systems / Electrical Power Systems
ECE (France) Power Distribution Equipment: Primary onboard electrical distribution system

Power Systems / Engine Components
Aerotech Herman Nelson, Inc. (Canada) Engine Preheaters: Portable heaters

Power Systems / Engines
SNECMA Moteurs (France) Turbofan Engines: M88-2 engines including low-emissions combustor, single-crystal turbine blades and powder metallurgy disks

Power Systems / Fuel Systems
Le Bozec Filtration et Systemes (France) Fuel Filters:
RUAG Aerospace (Switzerland) Fuel Tanks & Systems: Under wing fuel tanks

Power Systems / Power Transmission
Hispano Suiza (France/Spain) Mechanical Transmissions: Engine power transmissions and hydromechanics

Production / Production Equipment
LASELEC SA (France) Marking Equipment: Cable & wire laser marking equipment

Production / Tools
Le Creneau Industriel (France) Machine Tools: CNC machine tools

Testing / Test Equipment
EADS Test & Services (France) Automated Test Equipment: Automatic test equipment & ground test system


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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby NRao » 09 Aug 2009 19:59


avinash.rd
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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby avinash.rd » 08 Sep 2009 14:20

NRao wrote:Please observe the following guidelines:

I am starting this thread on a trial basis.

PLEASE POST ONLY TECHINCAL - Sourced - ARTCILES

NO DISCUSSIONS AT ALL PLEASE

PLEASE DO NOT post a news article without the proper heading and the URL. Your HTML coding must enable the news link to open in a new browser/window. Also kindly refrain from posting links to other forums which are discussing a news story, as that does not count as news.

PLEASE DO NOT post an entire article unless there is no archiving available on the news site. In the absence of a link, kindly post the entire article providing the title, the source, the author (optional), and the date. This initial heading must be displayed in bold font.

PLEASE DO NOT paste excerpts from the news link in the news thread, as that violates copyright laws. Also kindly refrain from any comments and/or discussion on the news articles posted in the news folder.

PLEASE DO NOT add smilies, other animated graphics and pictures in the news folder.

Thanking You in advance for your cooperation.


Are we not discussing about EF2000 in this thread?

NRao
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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby NRao » 08 Sep 2009 17:57

Are we not discussing about EF2000 in this thread?


NO Discussions - of ANY sorts. Discussions should be held in the MRCA thread.

You are welcome to post technical articles related to ANY MRCA entrant.

(The EF was not a contender when we started this thread.)

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Dmurphy » 10 Sep 2009 09:49

Second Generation AESA for Gripen
"What we are offering is a second generation AESA (advanced extended search array radar) that incorporates a swishplate that enables it to rotate and considerably enhances its capabilities over the existing radar," Gripen International's India director Eddy de la Motte told reporters Wednesday.

"The radar will come with its software source code."

Austin
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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby Austin » 12 Sep 2009 08:46

Xposting keypubs
Interesting data to Chew ?

Internal fuel capacity of world 4th ~ 5th Gen fighters

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby VishalJ » 04 Oct 2009 15:17

Hope i'm posting this in the right thread
USAF Lockheed Martin F-16CJ Fighting Falcon (HIGH RES)
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6678990

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby NRao » 04 Oct 2009 15:27

Vishal,

welcome.

This thread is for technical articles, but I guess hi-res photos are welcome. However, when you post such photos please make sure that they add value to this thread and please provide at least basic information - eg: when and where it/they was/were taken, etc.

Thanks.

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource Only

Postby VishalJ » 04 Oct 2009 15:33

Hi the hyperlink will give you every conceivable photo detail upon clicking.

Also, at the very bottom of that page it will also give u the option of viewing the EXIF data, leaving no detail unpublished, Guess u didnt click on it :-o

Cheers - Vishal

PS : Sorry i dont know all the rules of this forum just yet, apologies.
Also as a request, can you or a moderator unlock the Aero India 09 thread ?

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource O

Postby NRao » 15 Aug 2013 22:21

UP.

An OLD thread, that attempted to provide a single resource for technical information related to the MMRCAs. One should find topics on AESA, etc. Add to it if need be.

Thanks.

First and last RULE: NO DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD

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Re: F-16, F-18, Grip, MiG-35 and Rafale Technical Resource O

Postby SaiK » 04 Dec 2015 01:23

http://www.iaf.org.il/5642-35655-en/IAF.aspx
Right thread? No time to read it completely


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