The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 31 Oct 2009 07:36

http://themostfeared.blogspot.com/2009/ ... craft.html

Any comment gurus.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Oct 2009 10:06

err, why is the chinese project being posted here ?

anyway, nice fan-art.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Oct 2009 10:22

Pardon me but the fore section resembles th head of a toad and scaly rendering of fuselage reminds me of a lizard.

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 31 Oct 2009 23:26

negi wrote:Pardon me but the fore section resembles th head of a toad and scaly rendering of fuselage reminds me of a lizard.

hmmm..the chinese are great , they made a dragon give birth to a toad,

i think it was a result of cross breeding with the pakistanis

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2009 00:32

With access to top notch software, free blogs and posters what else can we expect?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 01 Nov 2009 00:40

NRao wrote:With access to top notch software, free blogs and posters what else can we expect?

To be frank, I'm also modeling MCA using F-22 pics (not exactly F-22). I think it will be ready soon.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 01 Nov 2009 00:45

^^Eagerly waiting for the pictures. Post them when they are ready.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2009 01:42

KrishG wrote:
NRao wrote:With access to top notch software, free blogs and posters what else can we expect?
To be frank, I'm also modeling MCA using F-22 pics (not exactly F-22). I think it will be ready soon.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. (I also do things on my own too.)

Just post it in the right thread - avoid posting it in the PAK-FA thread. BR has been diluted enough, IMHO.

vijyeta · Post by **vijyeta** » 01 Nov 2009 01:43

negi wrote:Pardon me but the fore section resembles th head of a toad and scaly rendering of fuselage reminds me of a lizard.

If it does not fly well, they will cook it.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Nov 2009 02:36

KrishG,
Are you modelling this on a computer? If so what software do you use and what would you recommend?
I draw a lot, but its mostly been 2D (or trying to convert 2D to look like 3D). I would love to get into 3D drawings / modelling.

Is there any software you would recommend?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 01 Nov 2009 03:19

Gagan wrote:KrishG,
Are you modelling this on a computer? If so what software do you use and what would you recommend?
I draw a lot, but its mostly been 2D (or trying to convert 2D to look like 3D). I would love to get into 3D drawings / modelling.

Is there any software you would recommend?

Moved this discussion here :

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=4860

I'll answer you there!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2009 04:06

KrishG wrote:
Gagan wrote:KrishG,
Are you modelling this on a computer? If so what software do you use and what would you recommend?
I draw a lot, but its mostly been 2D (or trying to convert 2D to look like 3D). I would love to get into 3D drawings / modelling.

Is there any software you would recommend?
Moved this discussion here :

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=4860

I'll answer you there!

modeling thread:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=3&t=4926

Thanks KG.

Admins, is it possible to delete some of these OT posts?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Nov 2009 22:18

No noise from PAK-FA. Is it really this quite, well concealed?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 16 Nov 2009 22:39

X-POSTING FROM LCA THREAD.

SaiK wrote: ..and btw, ot: why did the artists made pakfa look raptoriskie in the models?

IMVVHO, it should be safe to assume that PAK-FA would have some resemblance to raptor. It would to be too risky for Russians to take a completely radical approach.
There are some design elements that are proven for raptor and the laws of physics will not differ for pak-fa.
Eg: Take some basic stealth design features of F-22:
1>Continuous curves.
2>Diamond inlets.
3>Planform alignment.
4>Saw-toothed edges.
5>"W" shapes instead of straight lines.
6>flat engine nozzles.

Of course, my guess is that pak-fa would also have many design features unique to it, but if all the above listed design features are incorporated (which IMO they will), pak-fa is bound to look "at least a little" like raptor.

ADDED LATER: That is why, to a layman's eye, F-35 may look nothing but a small, fat and pregnant version of raptor.

Avi J · Post by **Avi J** » 23 Nov 2009 01:01

http://www.zhukvesti.ru/articles/detail/3290/

The link above its dated 20.11.2009 and is from zhukovsky news a journal detailing news from zhukovsky air base near moscow it claims that pakfa will fly before new year

my personal view is even if it flies it might or might not be revealed to the press because sukhoi is very guarded after the april accident on the su-35 BM 004 prototype they would want to make sure that all goes well with pakfa before opening the press for dissection

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 02 Dec 2009 08:29

http://defense-archive.teldan.com/Artic ... sID=450098

Sukhoi has delivered the second prototype of the fifth-gen T-50 Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces (PAK FA) tactical fighter to the Russian Air Force and static tests have commenced.

Is it that true...!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2009 08:45

should be . sukhoi != china. they usually do what they say.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 08 Dec 2009 20:07

Russia to start 5th generation fighter tests in 2010 - deputy PM

The trials will begin in 2010,"

Once more....!!

wesley · Post by **wesley** » 10 Dec 2009 08:43

sumshyam wrote:Russia to start 5th generation fighter tests in 2010 - deputy PM

The trials will begin in 2010,"
Once more....!!

The delay was also related by Jane's a few weeks ago. Apparently, Jane's was able to obtain the inside story from a Russian engineer working on the project (wonder if they paid him in vodka). According to the Jane's article, first flight has been delayed to early 2010, but there was still talk about having a roll-out ceremony in December (so that the directors at Sukhoi could claim some form of "success" and keep their jobs).

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Dec 2009 10:01

negi wrote:Pardon me but the fore section resembles th head of a toad and scaly rendering of fuselage reminds me of a lizard.

Yup it's one really ugly looking fighter. Does remind me of a lizard just looking at the forward section.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Dec 2009 10:02

vijyeta wrote:
negi wrote:Pardon me but the fore section resembles th head of a toad and scaly rendering of fuselage reminds me of a lizard.
If it does not fly well, they will cook it.

wesley · Post by **wesley** » 11 Dec 2009 17:25

It's being reported that Russia and India are on the verge of signing "several agreements" surrounding the PAK-FA program.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... riant.html

According to this report, the first Indian prototype for the PAK-FA is due to fly in 2016-17. As most of us are aware, the first Russian prototype is due to fly early in 2010 (in March, according to the latest intelligence from Jane's).

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 11 Dec 2009 18:01

wesley wrote:According to this report, the first Indian prototype for the PAK-FA is due to fly in 2016-17. As most of us are aware, the first Russian prototype is due to fly early in 2010 (in March, according to the latest intelligence from Jane's)

Thats bad news because 2017 is a loooong time away. Good news because it means our PAK FA is significantly different from the Russian one and hence our scientists will hopefully get to learn a lot more that way.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 11 Dec 2009 18:19

Dmurphy wrote: Good news because it means our PAK FA is significantly different from the Russian one and hence our scientists will hopefully get to learn a lot more that way.

for this to happen.....the details of designing procedure and corresponding experiments need to be shared......!

Do Russians are share it with us..?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 11 Dec 2009 20:22

sumshyam wrote:
Dmurphy wrote: Good news because it means our PAK FA is significantly different from the Russian one and hence our scientists will hopefully get to learn a lot more that way.
for this to happen.....the details of designing procedure and corresponding experiments need to be shared......!

Do Russians are share it with us..?

India is holding 50% of the IP for this project. It is a common belief that intial downpayment to join the developmental work of Pak-fa by India is nothing but to gain access to the tech. Nevertheless, Indian version is quite different ( i guess its like F-35 and russian one is like F-22) so it takes quite a time to bring up the Indian one.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Dec 2009 20:31

i guess its like F-35 and russian one is like F-22

not that different ! FGFA is a 2 seat version with some India specific mods. more like su-35 and mki.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 11 Dec 2009 21:24

Kanson wrote: India is holding 50% of the IP for this project. It is a common belief that intial downpayment to join the developmental work of Pak-fa by India is nothing but to gain access to the tech. Nevertheless, Indian version is quite different ( i guess its like F-35 and russian one is like F-22) so it takes quite a time to bring up the Indian one.

I surely hope not. If so, then we have got one crap deal.

Rahul M wrote:
i guess its like F-35 and russian one is like F-22
not that different ! FGFA is a 2 seat version with some India specific mods. more like su-35 and mki.

I presumed that too. From whatever details and interviews I could get from the net, my understanding is that FGFA would be a twin seater PAK-FA with Indian avionics. However, if that is the case, then how come it will take 6 more years for FGFA to achieve its first flight?
Considering the time difference, one could assume that there would be some other considerable changes in the FGFA. Though why would India want that at the cost of more time is something that we would know only after 2016 (optimistically speaking).

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 11 Dec 2009 22:05

Today I downloaded a photo of a person holding an aircraft model...which i think is either Russian or Chinese model of next generation...can mods make an arrangement to upload that..!!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 11 Dec 2009 22:12

Do you mean this?
http://www.airforceworld.com/fighter/gf ... k_fa_1.jpg
If this is the pic, then it is an old one (allegedly of pak-fa).

If not, you could upload it to imageshack or photobucket. Then you can post the link here. Otherwise, you can also post the link of the source from which you downloaded your pic.

adarshp · Post by **adarshp** » 11 Dec 2009 22:18

I read somewhere that there are structural differences between the two versions as well. For one, the wing will be different based on how India is planning to use the aircraft. Why the wing is different was not disclosed, but I had assumed that we maybe planning to use it as a deep strike platform and the wing would be modified to make way for additional fuel. Again, I think we will need to wait till next year to see more details emerge after the inital flight of the PAK-FA takes place and more details about the platform emerge, making way for reasonable assumptions about modifications that make sense.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 11 Dec 2009 22:21

Gaur wrote:Do you mean this?
http://www.airforceworld.com/fighter/gf ... k_fa_1.jpg
If this is the pic, then it is an old one (allegedly of pak-fa).

ya...that only...!!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Dec 2009 22:36

gaur, one reason for the gap between PAKFA and FGFA (if true) could be that India is in no hurry for it, IAF can afford to take its time to finalize what it wants on the FGFA, it might want to check how things stack up on the russian side before deciding on exact packages.
similar to how the mki was finalized, that took quite some time too.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 11 Dec 2009 22:59

^^
That seems likely. It should also be considered that the PAK-FA prototype to fly next year is supposed to be far cry from the final version (as it is with prototypes).
It would supposedly use Su-35 avionics and 117s engine . And though many of Su-35 avionics have been designed keeping pak-fa in mind, 117S does not come even near to the proposed pak-fa engine.
And considering that it is confirmed that PAK-FA engine is facing some problems, it would be safe to assume that it would take some time before pak-fa will fly near to its visioned state. And contrary to pak-fa, FGFA is in no hurry to showcase its first flight to the world. So perhaps when it will fly in 2016, it would be closer to the final version with proper engines and avionics. If so, then 6 years is not too much of a time difference and at that time the progress of FGFA should not be lagging too much behind to that of PAK-FA.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2009 23:16

.........................................

The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

—Feb. 12, 2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Department of Defense news briefing

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 19 Dec 2009 19:45

Russia, India to advance FGFA fighter programme with new agreements n

"We cannot go into the specifics of where we are, but both parties are happy now. In a few weeks, we will sign a few more agreements that will allow an even deeper partnership.

Commenting on reports that Indian scientists and engineers may be unhappy with the level of access they have been given on the PAK-FA programme, he said that there was "no major issue".
"

isn't it the old news with new title....?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 22 Dec 2009 06:14

rahul,

Whether it is by design or happenstance, the rendering accompaning the FGFA article, shows that as single engined fighter. Whereas nowhere i have seen a single engine version for PAF-KA. You may be interested to take a look.

http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mi ... ments.html

Is it first time here people hear about single engined version ?

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Dec 2009 07:04

That is because of the fact that different news reports and public releases via media use either the Sukhoi's twin engine prototype or the Mig's one engine prototype for PAK-FA/FGFA , and then initial reports of India wanting a single engine aircraft add to the confusion.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Dec 2009 08:17

Kanson wrote:rahul,

Whether it is by design or happenstance, the rendering accompaning the FGFA article, shows that as single engined fighter. Whereas nowhere i have seen a single engine version for PAF-KA. You may be interested to take a look.

http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mi ... ments.html

Is it first time here people hear about single engined version ?

That is the Vityaz-2000 single engined 5th gen fighter, in response to the US F-35

Check this link out

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 22 Dec 2009 08:43

here is a link....seems to be scan of some paper or Magazine....!

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 22 Dec 2009 18:54

Negi saab, that's the point. When there are so many alleged recent pics on PAK-FA, the magazine chooses to highlight the single engine concept for the FGFA. Many-a-times, Domain-b don't flutter like other defense reporting.

@Gagan: Thanks for the pics. Someday India, i hope, will have its own collection of live example of different flying concepts including one on the likes of Vityaz-2000.