The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

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Austin
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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Austin » 27 Dec 2009 16:46

sumshyam wrote:
Austin wrote: PAK-DA :wink:


Can we not negotiate with them for participation in PAK-DA...I think we also need a stretegic bomber..Just asking out of query...!

:idea: :idea:


Depends if our policy makers in MOD/IAF think or feel the need to have a concept of strategic bombing , so far IAF never spoke of the need to have strategic bombing , they are happy with Su-30 type heavy fighter/bomber

Come to think about it its only US and Russia maintain such a modern and effective fleet of tactical and transcontinental bomber.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Austin » 28 Dec 2009 09:54

some news on PAK-FA ( from so called insiders ) posted at keypubs , pasting it here for the benefit of others.

Otaku

"I'm able to say that the aircraft [undertook] taxi trials on 23rd of December. However, this is not the flying prototype, you could call it the T-50-01, and it is a ground-based tech/engineering model (like a lab).This is accurate information- but I am not able to tell you anymore-but all goes well...[security is very tight blah,blah,blah...] The aircraft's appearance is very similar to the Raptor, but longer [in length] and lower [in profile]..."END.

This corresponds well with another 'insider' who claims there will be no first flight (@ KnAAPO) before February, at the earliest. As for appearance, the description "like the F-22 but more streamlined" and "like a squashed frog" are being reported as Sukhoi sourced & accurate by the more credible sectors of the Russian press.


hexpop

The taxi trials were performed by prototype called "Комплексный Натурный Стенд", which may be translated as "comprehensive real testbed". There are also a flyable prototype T-50-1 and a static strength test prototype T-50-0. According to another information T-50 is smaller than Su-27, will have 10 internal weapon stations, have thrust to weight ration of 1,4, the wing has lots of devices. PAK-FA is called to be definitely superior to F-22.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 28 Dec 2009 13:04

Austin wrote:Otaku
The aircraft's appearance is very similar to the Raptor, but longer [in length] and lower [in profile]...End.


what does It mean....?

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Austin » 28 Dec 2009 13:24

The aircraft's appearance is very similar to the Raptor, but longer [in length] and lower [in profile]...End.

what does It mean....?


Probably means a frog like flatter structure and a lower profile like the Mig-29 ( sorry but i am hazarding a guess )

Clicky

Prespective T-50/PAK-FA

Mig-29

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 28 Dec 2009 14:36

No progression on the new front, but what we know is good news. Let them take their time. Ruskies need to get it right the first time around and they can do it.

Another speculative "photo":

Image

As compared to:

Image

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby negi » 28 Dec 2009 15:31

The so called lower profile can be attributed to canted tail fins and may due to the shorter landing gear as there wont be any need for carrying external payload under the fuselage allowing for a lower ground clearance .

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 28 Dec 2009 16:17

NRao wrote:Another speculative "photo":
Image


I will say the BEAST is beautiful...!

negi wrote:The so called lower profile can be attributed to canted tail fins and may due to the shorter landing gear as there wont be any need for carrying external payload under the fuselage allowing for a lower ground clearance .


ohk.....Initially I was thinking it in terms of lower cross-section or lower performance....because that is the profile of an aircraft..!

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 28 Dec 2009 17:46

another 'credible insider' source claims (now concensus) that there is a strong resemblance to the F-22, the V tail is the same angle though 'shorter', there are 2 main w/bays in tandem (but no small ones [?]), for the carriage of 4 missiles - elsewhere has been claimed 8/10 internally carried (maybe he meant 4 large missiles? or 4 in each...or credibility demolished?), I guess time will tell, I'd expect ~10 internally.

Extensive use of composites, particularly in the [upper] fuselage and wings & other compartments...special surface materials/treatments...absence of surface 'suspensions/gaps'...


Courtesy Otaku
Key-publishing Forum

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 28 Dec 2009 18:49


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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 28 Dec 2009 20:24

negi wrote:The so called lower profile can be attributed to canted tail fins and may due to the shorter landing gear as there wont be any need for carrying external payload under the fuselage allowing for a lower ground clearance .


AND they have tucked (IF that picture is close to the actual) the intakes between the body. (In the Su and MiG the intakes hang below the body.)

So, they have built three air crafts. Feb, 2010 first anticipated flight (of 02). Good. That is not too far. Having to wait since 2007, that is manageable.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Dec 2009 20:29

negi wrote:The so called lower profile can be attributed to canted tail fins and may due to the shorter landing gear as there wont be any need for carrying external payload under the fuselage allowing for a lower ground clearance .

And possibly smaller fins than those displayed in that image. That image btw, seems a bit odd in terms of the intake design.

Btw, is it just me or does the fulcrum look far better and pleasing to the eyes. Can't help it, I do like smooth curves!

CM.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 28 Dec 2009 20:44

CM,

I would not trust that "PAK-FA" "photo" too much. At best it could be "fairly close".

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby bodhi » 28 Dec 2009 23:51

IIRC, the canopy tends to be the main reason for a higher RCS. So that would mean that the Indian version would have a higher RCS. How can we avoid that?

Also, wasnt the Indian version planned to be bigger than the Russian one with 2 engines? if this one carries 10 missiles internally which is roughly close to a Su 30, i expect this to be a rather large aircraft. With an RCS similar to the F-22, if not better, imagine what a smaller aircraft would be like...it would be almost invisible (just my imaginations running wild)

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Avi J » 29 Dec 2009 00:18

the photo is actually a very poor image although the artist tried to depict a pic based on the technical parameters his sheer ignorance of about russia gave it in the kind of grass shown on the picture is not to be found in russia as far as i know not in moscow region for sure and certainly not in the fareast
goes on to show the picture is made by an somebody who is just an internet freak and certainly not russian

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Kartik » 29 Dec 2009 00:29

Cain Marko wrote:
negi wrote:Btw, is it just me or does the fulcrum look far better and pleasing to the eyes. Can't help it, I do like smooth curves!

CM.


oh no doubt about it..the Fulcrum is one of the best looking aircraft of all time..IMO, 3 of the best looking fighters in a long long time were 3rd gen fighters- the Fulcrum, the F-16 Falcon and the Mirage-2000. the 4th generation fighters, the Gripen, Rafale and Typhoon are very pleasing to the eye as well..however, with the advent of stealth, the 5th gen fighters are just so-so when it comes to looks. Paralay's speculative T-50 images show the PAK-FA to be quite an attractive fighter even with the chine.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby negi » 29 Dec 2009 00:34

Yep could not agree more and perhaps bias towards Mig-29 is also due to the fact that it was our first love (at least mine) as far as fighter AC were concerned. :wink:

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Dmurphy » 29 Dec 2009 09:15

BTW, the taxi trials are on. So the first flight shouldn't too far and with that the first authetic images.

article

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 29 Dec 2009 11:32

BR should buy a micro sat to get better scoop of such events. :twisted:

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby arya » 29 Dec 2009 12:46

invi wrote:the photo is actually a very poor image although the artist tried to depict a pic based on the technical parameters his sheer ignorance of about russia gave it in the kind of grass shown on the picture is not to be found in russia as far as i know not in moscow region for sure and certainly not in the fareast
goes on to show the picture is made by an somebody who is just an internet freak and certainly not russian

8) JASOOS KARAMCHAND OR VYOMKESH BAKSHI?

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby soumik » 29 Dec 2009 13:46

cross posting from Keypubs forum

МОСКВА, 28 декабря. /ПРАЙМ-ТАСС/. Первый полет боевого самолета пятого поколения состоится в самое ближайшее время, сообщил сегодня журналистам президент ОАК Алексей Федоров.

По его словам, сейчас очень активно идет подготовка к первому полету. "Я могу подтвердить, что самолет уже начал пробежки", - отметил он. В ближайшее время состоится первый полет. По словам А.Федорова, этот самолет – принципиально новая машина. "Поэтому четко прогнозировать дату я бы не стал", - сказал он.

Также А.Федоров отметил, что "рассматриваются несколько вариантов места первого полета – либо Комсомольск-на-Амуре, либо другое место".

http://www.prime-tass.ru/news/0/%7B3...205140D%7D.uif

Translation:

The first flight of the Fifth-Generation warplane will take place in the very near future, the president of OAK Aleksay Fyodorov reported to journalists today (28/12/09).

According to his words, currently very active preparations are being made for the first flight. "I can confirm that the aircraft has already started to undertake taxi-trials...and in the near-future will have it's first flight".
According to [the words of] A. Fyodorov, the aircraft is in principle a new machine, "that is why I'm not able to accurately predict a date".

He also said "[we're] also evaluating several locations for the first flight- either KnAAPO, or another place".


By the way that is a beautiful german flanker you got there. i'm guessing it was one of the planes transferred to the west german airforce on reunification in 1991.
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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 29 Dec 2009 20:03

People are talking about variable jet inlet with restart-up shutters for PAK-FA....!

Though I am studying some patents on it...but would need some enlightenment..!

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 29 Dec 2009 20:12

Who are these "people"?

soumik,

I am sure you meant Fulcrum.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 29 Dec 2009 21:06

NRao wrote:Who are these "people"?


I mean I read a post at keypublishing forum...can't they be called people?

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 29 Dec 2009 23:26

soumik wrote:cross posting from Keypubs forum

МОСКВА, 28 декабря. /ПРАЙМ-ТАСС/. Первый полет боевого самолета пятого поколения состоится в самое ближайшее время, сообщил сегодня журналистам президент ОАК Алексей Федоров.

........................................................

Также А.Федоров отметил, что "рассматриваются несколько вариантов места первого полета – либо Комсомольск-на-Амуре, либо другое место".

http://www.prime-tass.ru/news/0/%7B3...205140D%7D.uif

Translation:

......................................

He also said "[we're] also evaluating several locations for the first flight- either KnAAPO, or another place".



"several locations" - first flight must be a few weeks away then.

However, that should give India a great chance to pitch for Jaislmer and Chennai.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2009 00:41

NRao wrote:"several locations" - first flight must be a few weeks away then.

However, that should give India a great chance to pitch for Jaislmer and Chennai.


Well not atleast for PAK-FA as its a 100 % Russian Project

For FGFA it may be possible to flight test much of it in India.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Vinito » 30 Dec 2009 01:12

Austin wrote:some news on PAK-FA ( from so called insiders ) posted at keypubs , pasting it here for the benefit of others.

Otaku

"I'm able to say that the aircraft [undertook] taxi trials on 23rd of December. However, this is not the flying prototype, you could call it the T-50-01, and it is a ground-based tech/engineering model (like a lab).This is accurate information- but I am not able to tell you anymore-but all goes well...[security is very tight blah,blah,blah...] The aircraft's appearance is very similar to the Raptor, but longer [in length] and lower [in profile]..."END.

This corresponds well with another 'insider' who claims there will be no first flight (@ KnAAPO) before February, at the earliest. As for appearance, the description "like the F-22 but more streamlined" and "like a squashed frog" are being reported as Sukhoi sourced & accurate by the more credible sectors of the Russian press.


hexpop

The taxi trials were performed by prototype called "Комплексный Натурный Стенд", which may be translated as "comprehensive real testbed". There are also a flyable prototype T-50-1 and a static strength test prototype T-50-0. According to another information T-50 is smaller than Su-27, will have 10 internal weapon stations, have thrust to weight ration of 1,4, the wing has lots of devices. PAK-FA is called to be definitely superior to F-22.


10 internal stations? that sounds a bit of an exaggeration

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Asit P » 30 Dec 2009 03:39

Vinito wrote:10 internal stations? that sounds a bit of an exaggeration


Wait for few more weeks, the wheat will get separated from the chaff. Till then we can continue speculating :wink:

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Anurag » 30 Dec 2009 04:43

In the mean time, enjoy the speculative PAK-FA video! 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix0Izx-6Ycw
Last edited by Anurag on 30 Dec 2009 23:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 30 Dec 2009 08:09

Anurag wrote:In the mean time, enjoy the speculative PAK-FA video! 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix0Izx-6Ycw


That is the Chinese version (from Aviation Week).

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Gagan » 30 Dec 2009 08:12

Anurag, the youtube video didn't render correctly on your post, you can make it appear correctly by typing only the part after the "=" sign within the youtube markings.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby parshuram » 30 Dec 2009 09:59

This is from Igorr 's Blog -:

link

Nice summary and scans in russians ...

High Lights

) Can hope for 10-15% PAKFA advantage over F-22 due to two decades of tech. development.
2) F-22 detects Su35 from the distance of 150-180 km but can open fire from 110 km, while becomes visible for Su-35's radar by itself and on R-77 range of attack.


3) OLS-35 probably detects Raptor on 100 km distance.
4) PAKFA's AESA radar has probably 1526 modules with overall power 18 KWt. Range for a big air target – 400. TWS/A = 60/16.
5) Active antennas in the wings and tail are probable.
6) OLS with 360 deg.
7) Backward attacking missiles.
8) Has up to 12 Air-to-air missiles (if compact) in internal placement.
9) Two internal bays for WLRAAMs and LRAAMs up to 700 kg each. + 2 bays for short range missiles.
10) While Raptor can have up to 8 missiles in the internal bays.
11) WLRAAM 'Izdelie 810' is MiG-31 R-33 derivative. 400 km.
12) LRAAM 'Izdelie-180PD' is air-breath R-77 derivative. 250 km.
13) 'Izdelie-180' – solid-fuel R-77 derivative 110-140 km. With active and passive radar, homing on jammer.
14) Short range AAM – 'Izdelie-300' or K-MD IR matrix, double range of homing.
15) Kh-58UShKE
16) Kh-35
17) 500 kg guided and unguided bombs and cassette munition.
18) Intrafuselage cathapults UVKU-50L – up to 300 kg, UVKU-50U – up to 700 kg.
19) Internal bays total weight 2.000 kg
20) With + external hardpoints – 6.000 kg.
21) GSh-30 30 mm autocannon.
22) According to the plans – 430 planes must be built for RuAF.
23) Probably price $80 mil.
24) Will replace 339 Su-27 and 300 MiG-31

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Gaur » 30 Dec 2009 10:29

^^
Yes, that article has been discussed (even with igorr) back when it was published.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Anurag » 31 Dec 2009 00:59

NRao wrote:
Anurag wrote:In the mean time, enjoy the speculative PAK-FA video! 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix0Izx-6Ycw


That is the Chinese version (from Aviation Week).


Are both the aircrafts shown in there the Chinese version?

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 31 Dec 2009 01:27

Anurag wrote:
Are both the aircrafts shown in there the Chinese version?


Nope.

PLAAF to Fly 5th Generation Fighter

Cannot find pic - I had posted it earlier. Found one, check the international thread.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Anurag » 31 Dec 2009 01:38

NRao wrote:
Anurag wrote:
Are both the aircrafts shown in there the Chinese version?


Nope.

PLAAF to Fly 5th Generation Fighter

Cannot find pic - I had posted it earlier. Found one, check the international thread.


Ok, but neither of the two aircrafts in the video are the intended PAK-FA for India or Russia then?

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby NRao » 31 Dec 2009 01:45

^^^^

Figment of someone's imagination.

Great figment tho'.

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby Anurag » 31 Dec 2009 01:47

LOL. Indeed! :rotfl:

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby sumshyam » 03 Jan 2010 00:00

It may be called an off track post....but I searched PAK_FA on google-track and found something that don't make sense to me....i.e. top 10 countries where PAK-FA is being searched is as follows...!
1. Yugoslavia
2. India
3. Greece
4. Slovakia
5. Norway
6. Croatia
7. Czech Republic
8. Russian Federation
9. Indonesia
10. Poland

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby atma » 03 Jan 2010 14:58

I thought yugoslavia ceased to be a country towards the later part of the last century, even before the internet became widely used. :?: :roll:

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Re: The Indo Russian PAK-FA Project

Postby atma » 03 Jan 2010 15:05

Ahh! they mean regions. A lot of interest from Croatia and Slovakia. Note there are no former Yugo cities in the top ten. I wonder why there is so much interest from the bucolic contryside and quaint beach towns of Croatia rather than from Zagreb. :)


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