Indian Interests

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4524
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Postby putnanja » 13 May 2008 03:15

PM mum on nuclear tests

[quote]New Delhi, May 12: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today felicitated India’s defence scientists but did not mention a word on what the military technology establishment ranks among its biggest achievements — the May 11 and May 13, 1998, nuclear tests.

What will rankle the BJP even more is that the Prime Minister was speaking not to a political audience but to a hall full of scientists and technologists at the headquarters of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) here, on the golden jubilee of the organisation, on a date that coincides with the 10th anniversary of Pokharan II.

The Opposition BJP has already alleged that the UPA government was not giving the nuclear tests pride of place in the way the NDA government did.

And today, in the heart of India’s military science establishment at the headquarters of the DRDO, the Prime Minister chose not to even mention the event.

The immediate conclusion that many people in the audience drew was that the Prime Minister was unwilling to attract international attention to India’s nuclear programme when New Delhi was trying to resolve delicate issues over the India-US civilian nuclear deal.

Shortly after the Prime Minister gave away the awards and gave his speech and left to meet selected DRDO scientists in a separate room, the organisation screened a documentary showcasing its achievements beginning with the nuclear tests.

Singh, however, congratulated a team of scientists led by Avinash Chander — director of the Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory who is India’s latest missile man — on the successful firing of the 3000-km range Agni III missile that was tested last week. The missile is said to be capable of delivering a one-and-a-half tonne nuclear warhead.

But even that could not stymie the murmur that arose in the hall shortly after the Prime Minister’s departure. In his speech, the Prime Minister noted that “during the past 50 years, the DRDO has created an extraordinary range of infrastructure and technologies covering aeronautics, missiles, radars and electronic warfare systems, combat vehicles and armaments, naval systems and special materials and manufacturing processes. The country is proud of your achievements.â€

satya
BRFite
Posts: 718
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 03:09

Postby satya » 13 May 2008 14:31

Gandhi and Gandhi

[quote]Standing with the people is not the same thing as standing for them .

The theatrical fracas over the governor of West Bengal’s decision to voluntarily shut off lights at Raj Bhavan exemplifies some deep infirmities in our politics. To tackle a minor issue first. We can all have fun unpacking the symbolic meaning of shutting off lights at Raj Bhavan. It probably exemplified the darkness of the state more than it expressed solidarity with the people. But whatever his motives in doing so, the governor clearly failed to take on board two lessons that those engaged in a politics of symbolic gesture ought to be aware of. First, public functionaries and private citizens have different degrees of freedom in what they can do. Whatever his personal views, a governor cannot be seen to be criticising his government, unless there is some serious constitutional issue at stake. And whichever way the governor interprets his gesture, there is no doubt that it was a riposte to his own government, one that as governor he is not entitled to make. Mohandas Gandhi himself was very clear that the politics of so-called gandhigiri cannot apply to public office; which is why he chose never to hold one.

Second, Gandhiji also knew that the authority of symbolic gestures depends not upon one-time interventions, but moral authority carefully and dedicatedly crafted over the course of a long time. The force of symbolic gestures can easily be undermined by the suspicion that they are merely a form of grandstanding. The only way to counter that suspicion is to have a consistent record of sacrifice. Or to pick an issue of such moral importance that no one could disagree. The governor’s choice of issue and the manner of articulating it failed on these counts. The CPM’s response has been characteristically supercilious and over the top. But the governor did invite it. Ironically, he shares with his CPM opponents an odd sensibility about politics: one in which symbols matter more than the substance.

But the deeper issue the episode raises is this. In the idioms of Indian politics, there is still far too much space occupied by the politics of good intentions and by an insistence on heartfelt gestures of solidarity. Some of this is warranted: we need a language and gestures to express the idea that someone cares. But often a lot of this politics exemplifies what Hazari Prasad Dwivedi once memorably described as “Jab dil bhara ho, aur dimag khali hoâ€

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 15 May 2008 04:40

To breakout of the Macualyite shackles on the Indian mind we need to understand whats is or the extent of Indian Asia?

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Postby Sanjay M » 17 May 2008 00:45

The Germans are moving to help build up Russian industry:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/16/ ... ermany.php

I think that Russo-German cooperation and harmony are ultimately very positive for Indian interests. And this is because it could help to neutralize the agenda of the Atlanticists (who coincidentally happen to love the jihadis, due to ColdWar reasons).

Thus I feel that India should work to help foster Russo-German amity/cooperation from afar. This is the particular chess maneuver that I would choose for advancing Indian security interests. Strong Russo-German bonds would prevent the Atlanticists from seizing the opportunity for continuing their machiavellian ColdWar agenda. This would in turn diminish the Atlanticists' capacity to keep defending their jihadi ColdWar allies.

Indian business could economically benefit from 3-way partnerships, with German industrial muscle, Russian resource abundance, and Indian IT services mutually reinforcing each other.

It is said that British Intelligence was behind the assassination of Rasputin, because he was urging the Russian rulers to send Russian troops to assist Germany in its conflict with neighbors to the West. Dastardly acts like that show how the Brits have radically changed the course of world history, to boost their own power at the expense of causing terrible misery to others.
Can you imagine how different history could have been, if acts like that had not been carried out? World Wars 1 and 2 might not have occurred.

So my point is to not sit around like animals and fume impotently at the bars on our cage, as we are poked with sticks like the Jaipur bombings.
We have to go to work on those bars, to break them down.

Tilak
BRFite
Posts: 733
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 20:19
Location: Old Lal Masjid @BRFATA (*Renovation*)

Postby Tilak » 17 May 2008 19:42

Tenants rule, owners are absent
15 May 2008, 1245 hrs IST,Tarun Vijay

Dr Do Little issued a strong statement condemning the dastardly act and Mr. Do Nothings shook the media headlines before leaving for their summer vacation. That's how the Jaipur blasts have been dealt with. Like any other blast, like any other calamity inflicted by Osama bin Laden's bravehearts who choose their targets in the thick of night or from among the innocent populace going to temples or markets. This is the level of courage they show in the name of their faith.

The basic malady however remains unattended. Surrounded by failed states and finding it compelling to be soft on terror-shelters in return for votes, a bleeding India tries to see some hope in Gurgaon-Bangalore (IT, call centre) progress barometers which clouds the basic point – is the state willing to take on terrorism full steam.

The half-hearted, fifty-fifty, salt and sweet policy to deal with terror gives us more Afzals and Jaipurs as attacks on Jammu, Akshardham, Varanasi and Parliament continue. A wet paper state is worse than being a soft one which refuses to see issues of infiltration, jihad , Maoism, and growing separatism as part of one big assault against the Indian state and her geographical entity, mind and spirit.

Nations are run by owners, not tenants.
The maliks are those who face storms and sacrifice their lives for 'their' motherland without ever dreaming of a return gift. The children of Mother India, the real ones, consider themselves to be infused with the power and sense of belonging to every inch of our holy land, regard the land as a goddess personified, a living entity and not just a conglomeration of rivers, jungles, peoples and buildings. Then the land, India runs in our veins – we live her, adore her, devote ourselves for her service, the chant Vande Mataram is no longer a meaningless word but creates an aura of patriotism around our actions and thoughts. Every bit of her history and culture and people is reflected in the behaviour and actions of Mother India's children. Like an owner. Then the people are not just voters, they are your own kith and kin and any one anywhere who attacks them or hurts them automatically becomes your sworn enemy too. One doesn't have to ask ‘whom do you belong to' either of the security personnel who sacrificed their lives to save Parliament or of some of the unworthy insiders or the Afzals and their co-conspirators. The choice would be obvious.

But that's expected of owners.

Today we have just tenants who use the motherland as a piece of real estate for their personal ends. Tenants consider themselves as beneficiaries. If the rotten system helps them stay longer, they are not bothered to change it. They don't fight the mischievous neighbour trespassing or breaking a boundary wall. At the most a tenant would report it to the owner – look this is happening to your land – take care if you wish to do so. Only owners would have a commitment and strength to safeguard it, change and improve the system and take hard, unpopular decisions. Tenants can have "statement governance" that smiles when slapped and laughs when hit hard for an award or appreciation from New York, or London. Awards for peace and tolerance.

The warriors of 1857 were owners. The revolutionaries and freedom fighters, the Kargil victors and martyrs were too, the inheritors and the children of Mother India.

How can they, who loot national wealth to keep it in foreign banks, shut their eyes to territorial erosion and constitutional corrosion while continuing with election campaigning for the next round of 'money harvesting', call themselves children of Mother India and hence legitimate owners of this land? Anyone, any faith or caste or creed or belief or an atheist can be an inheritor of this blessed ownership if he does something in his life for the good of society without eyeing a free bungalow in Lutyen's Delhi. But not those for whom serving the nation is a rude synonym for serving their own interests.

Scrapping POTA, silence on infiltration, half-hearted responses to continuing terrorism, committees to influence media and the judiciary to free the lecturer involved in the Parliament attack, a colonial attitude on civilisational matters, hate for Sanskrit and anything that relates with the quintessential characteristics of the land called India only indicates an alienated mindset controlling the polity.

Hence M F Husain must be honoured for painting nudes of goddesses but Danish cartoons should be banned and condemned. Reservations for non-Hindus must be announced from rooftops and Hindu icons can be called mythical, unproven, mere stories and fit for demolition while Hindu refuges are condemned to oblivion and de-listed from security conclaves. Can you believe that the largest Hindu organisations in the world like the RSS or their ideological brothers in Vishwa Hindu Parishad have never been officially invited to the President's banquets and Republic Day celebrations at homes and dinners? But those who have a history of working against India's soul and territorial integrity have always been on the list of invitees since Viceregal times. This Siberian-Gulag mindset of the rulers smacks of an alienated sense of perverted history and a vengeful attitude. Not an Indian lineage surely.

Still we say, we are a democracy and we are progressing well.

If wealth and the infrastructure were the only criteria for a nation's growth and happiness index, why did we drive the British out? They were ruling through Indians, creating ICS-es and Raibahadurs and Sergeants and head clerks from our midst. They were benefiting Indians too while depositing their share of loot loyally in British coffers, including our books, ancient manuscripts and the Kohinoor. What was wrong in that if the present loot and Swiss accounts of politicians coupled with tolerance for terrorists is accepted for the sake of secularism?

Patriotic jawans would like to wipe out the scourge of terrorism. They are denied permission. Even if government policies result in frustration and incidents of suicide among the forces come to the fore, the Supreme Court would like the terrorist, who waged war on India, to be hanged till death. But governors, the tenants, would like him to be pardoned. A doctor who saved hundreds of lives was shown the door by a legislation exclusively targeting him introduced by those who considered yielding to a rogue ally more important than saving the honour of a great citizen. When the Supreme Court tears off a bad law, the minister and Prime Minister stare blankly as if nothing has happened.

It shows a disconnect between the soul of the nation and her body. The muscles remain paralysed.

A failure of nerves, making muscles numbed.

In medical terms it is known as myasthenia gravis (MG), an auto-immune disease that affects the transmission of signals from nerves to muscles, described thus: "The symptoms are troubling, yet subtle. You might notice, for example, occasional double vision, drooping eyelids, or the occasional difficulty to chew or swallow food. You may become hoarse or talk through your nose. It may be hard to smile, and people may tell you that you look depressed, even though you feel fine."

The same way the signals from the nerve centre of the state and power to the muscles of the armed forces is missing. See the latest annual report of the Ministry of Home Affairs. It is silent on how many terrorists and their accomplices have been convicted or the number of illegal Bangladeshi infiltrators deported. It shows that terrorism and murders outnumber such incidents in Jammu and Kashmir. Where is the reaction to this?

It is time to throw off the shackles of a colonial mindset and face the cowards squarely.


The author is the Director, Dr Syamaprasad Mookerjee Research Foundation.

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Postby Sanjay M » 19 May 2008 03:32

BBC News

Inside the secretive Bilderberg Group

How much influence do private networks of the rich and powerful have on government policies and international relations? One group, the Bilderberg, has often attracted speculation that it forms a shadowy global government. As part of the BBC's Who Runs Your World? series, Bill Hayton tries to find out more.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Postby svinayak » 19 May 2008 20:49


sanjaychoudhry
BRFite
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jul 2007 00:39
Location: La La Land

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 20 May 2008 01:40

This was long overdue.

IndiaTales kicks off India operations

IndiaTales Media Pvt Ltd, a new media company with a mission to take Indian folklore and culture to a global audience, on Monday announced the launch of its India operations.

Headquartered in Bangalore and with animation studios in Thiruvananthapuram, the first venture of the company is a full length animated feature film `Manikantan'.

The feature film is based on the story of young Lord Ayappa told through the eyes of a young girl and her pet parrot. Expected to hit theatres in November 2008, the movie is being made at a budget of under 10 million US dollars and will be released simultaneously in Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Tamil and Telugu, a company press release said here.

The original score for the film is written by legendary music director Ilayaraja and has global symphonic performances in this music.

"Our dream is to tell Indian tales to the world", said Nalin Singh, MD of the company. "India has an abundance of great natural characters and does not need to create artificial ones like Superman or Spiderman. We want to bring this (Indian characters) back to life in the reel world and spread it far and wide", he added.


Link

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 23 May 2008 22:43

On characteristics of a despotic society.

How to Read a Society
Theodore Dalrymple


Rye
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 05 Aug 2001 11:31

Postby Rye » 23 May 2008 22:50

Replace Russia with China and France with India, and the situation is analogous to the gullible marxist "intellectuals" in India who are pro-China, or the US experts to Pakistan like Stephen Cohen or the US experts on China.


Dalrymple quote:
Unlike so many gullible intellectuals of the twentieth century who visited communist countries in the spirit of religious pilgrims, Custine understood only too well both the techniques and the meaning of the attempts to deceive him. "Russian hospitality, bristling with formalities . . . is a polite pretext for hampering the movements of the traveller and limiting his license to observe," he concluded. "Thanks to this fastidious politeness, the observer cannot visit a place or look at anything without a guide; never being alone he has trouble judging for himself, which is what they want. To enter Russia, you must deposit your free will as well as your passport at the frontier. . . . Would you like to see . . . a hospital? The doctor in charge will escort you. A fortress? The governor will show it to you, or rather, politely conceal it from you. A school, any kind of public establishment? The director, the inspector, will be forewarned of your visit. . . . A building? The architect will take you over all its parts and will, himself, explain everything you have not asked in order to avoid instructing you on the things you are interested in learning." No wonder, he added, that "the most highly esteemed travellers are those who, the most meekly and for the longest time, allow themselves to be taken in." No visitor to a communist country could fail to recognize the description.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 23 May 2008 23:39

Rye, there are overt and covert despotic states and they have same behavior. And then there are the gullible and credulous fools as Radhakrishnan called one.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 24 May 2008 00:24

Rye, Did you see the ref to the article on paupersim and its debiltating effects of general soceity. I wonder how much effect the Buddhist bhikkus had in the general state of affairs in pre-Islamic India?

Rye
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 05 Aug 2001 11:31

Postby Rye » 24 May 2008 00:29

Dalrymple quote:
If men were not thinking beings who react to their circumstances by taking what they conceive to be advantage of them, this system doubtless would have had the desired effect. But instead, Tocqueville observed the voluntary idleness to which the seemingly humane system of entitlement gave rise—how it destroyed both kindness and gratitude (for what is given bureaucratically is received with resentment), how it encouraged fraud and dissimulation of various kinds, and above all how it dissolved the social bonds that protected people from the worst effects of poverty.


Ramana, I was going to quote the above too, as it raises an interesting connection w.r.t. "entitlement". The islamists have a god-given sense of entitlement provided by the Quran, and the socialist/marxist system encourages the mindset of entitlement without contribution to society...or worse, demanding entitlement from a secular system while refusing to live the rules of the very system that supports such people. The real cleverness of these people is they way they pretend that their totalitarian marxism/socialism is "secular" and other secular ideologies are "fascist".

rocky
BRFite
Posts: 142
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 22:52

Postby rocky » 24 May 2008 01:47

Well, if there is any time to test, now it is. The yahoos in the neighbourhood have gotten access to new enrichment technology and uranium, and this is so in-your-face proliferation of nuclear technology that India would be smart to conduct tests right now. http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssEnergyNews/idUSPEK35813420080523
May 23 (Reuters) - Russia is to build and supply a $1 billion uranium enrichment plant in China, Russia's nuclear chief said on Friday.

The deal will be signed during Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's state visit to Beijing which begins on Friday, said Sergei Kiriyenko, the chief of the Rosatom state nuclear corporation.

The following lists the main energy deals between the two nations.

* May 2007: China Tianwan nuclear Plant started second of its Russian-built reactors of 1.06 gigawatt in eastern Jiangsu province, after the first one of same size started in 2006. Atomstroiexport, building contractor of Russian atomic agency Rosatom, is the supplier and builder. Each plant costs $1.6 billion.

* Nov 2006: Rosneft (ROSN.MM: Quote, Profile, Research) and China's No.2 oil firm Sinopec Group agreed to build a refinery and a fuel retail network during then Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov's visit to Beijing. No details of the deal were disclosed.

* July 2006: CNPC is allocated $500 million worth of shares in Rosneft through its IPO, although it placed an order for up to $3 billion worth of shares.

* June 2006: Sinopec Group acquired at about $3.5 billion Udmurtneft, a 120,000 barrels per day crude production unit of BP's Russian vehicle TNK-BP. Under the deal, Sinopec would then sell 51 percent of the asset to Rosneft. Rosneft would pay for its share out of future Udmurtneft revenues.

Sinopec also holds 25 percent stake in Rosneft's Sakhaline-3 Veninsk Block.

* March 2006: During former Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit to Beijing, CNPC and Rosneft agreed to build a 200,000 bpd refinery and jointly operate 300 or more petrol stations. Port city Tianjin, near Beijing, has been picked as the site of the plant, industry sources told Reuters. Companies also set up a joint venture firm Vostok Energy to explore and produce crude oil in Irkutsk region. (Reporting by Chen Aizhu; editing by James Jukwey) (aizhu.chen@thomsonreuters.com; Reuters Messaging: aizhu.chen.reuters.com@reuters.net; +8610 6627 1211)

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Postby ShauryaT » 24 May 2008 18:16

IDSA's National Security Lecture Series

The Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Fali H Major, PVSM, AVSM,SC,VM,ADC, delivered a lecture on " India's Air Force in the 21st Century: Challenges and Opportunities" on 11 April 2008 at 1500h at IDSA Auditorium. The lecture was part of IDSA's National Security Lecture Series.

Sorry Ramana, could not decide, where else to put this.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Postby svinayak » 28 May 2008 07:39

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -1,00.html
Nehru Never Wins
Monday, Aug. 24, 1942


The shuffling of camel pads pounded softly near a great cream-colored mansion in Allahabad where the white, gold and green flag of the Indian National Congress party flirted with the wind. Here was dignity and beauty. Here, in the mansion built by his father, Jawaharlal Nehru knew that there was refuge from the world.

To this mansion had come many men: the lordly rulers of India, the sycophants, the rebels and the humblest peasants of the field. Here Nehru longed to return from the squalor and the wranglings in Bombay. Then came a knock at the door. Quickly Nehru's Oxford-educated daughter, Indira, ran to open it. She expected radio men setting up a microphone for a broadcast that Nehru was to make to the U.S. But the callers were not radio men. They were British police.

India & the World. It was the ninth time since 1921 that Pandit (Great Scholar) Nehru had gone to jail. Only twice has he been out for more than a year at a time. Yet for ten years he was secretary general of the Congress party, three times its president and, next to the half-naked Mahatma (Great Soul) Gandhi, the most powerful figure in India's political life. As a sensitive liberal and a world statesman, Nehru has outgrown the shadow of his overage Messiah. But Gandhi, self-willed, self-made symbol of the Hindu peasant, has clamped Nehru's feet to India. It was Nehru the disciple, not Nehru the internationalist, who returned once more to jail.

He packed his bag with four crisp white suits, gathered up his books. If there had been time, he would have made his broadcast, a final appeal to America—an appeal for understanding from the world's last great bastion of freedom. But there was not time: The British Raj, intent on crushing the second Gandhi civil-disobedience campaign in World War II, was mad and tough.

How angry the Raj can get, how tough it can be, is an old and bitter story to Nehru. Last week, having jailed Gandhi, Nehru and other Congress leaders (including Nehru's sister, Mrs. Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit), the British claimed an early victory. At least 83 known killed, hundreds of others with broken skulls—this was the price Gandhi's followers paid for protest rioting in disobedience of Gandhi's policy of passive resistance. But though the first flames of riot were quenched, the fire went on underground (see p. 18).

When the monsoon (political) weather ends in September and the dry (war) season sets in, the British case will be tested.

Nehru & the World. In his last interview before returning to his "other home," Nehru told TIME Correspondent Theodore White what he might have explained in a U.S. broadcast. Above him in the reception room of the Allahabad mansion were pictures of his father, Motilal Nehru, a signed photograph of Generalissimo and Madame Chiang Kaishek, a photograph of Sun Yat-sen and Madame Sun. Gone was Nehru's laughter and the jokes he had made with the Chiangs last spring when they conferred on world problems in a villa at New Delhi. Great masses of flowers had been in bloom then. Now the flowers in India were burned out in the summer heat. So was Nehru burned out, his handsome face drawn in lines of fatigue and sorrow.



He has stuck barbs of sarcasm into the classic Tory theory that Britain must dominate India because:
1) it is the bastion of empire and the bulwark of Britain's world power;
2) the economic standard of the British Isles is built on India's wealth;
3) without Britain's strong ruling hand, India's racial and religious groups, unable and untrained to govern themselves, will fly at each other's throats in anarchy, chaos and civil war.


Basically, said Nehru, the Indian crisis is the result of Europe's and America's concept of Asia. "What has astounded me," said Idealist Nehru, "is the total inability of the English-speaking peoples to think of the new world-situation in terms of realism—realism being more than military realism. It is political, psychological, economic realism. . . . Their concept of us is that of a mass people fallen low, a backward people who must be lifted out from the depths by good works. . . .

"I think about it and it seems to me that there is something essential lacking in European civilization, some poison which eats into it and brings about a war every 20 years. For the average Asiatic in this war the prestige of Europe has suffered tremendously. . . . The fall of France showed up the rottenness of Western imperialism and the burden which it imposed on the people of the West. . . . Much later came the fall of Burma and Malay. This, at any rate, was a direct lesson to the British that their empire was going to pieces. But the astounding thing is that it has had little or no effect."


sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4786
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Postby sanjaykumar » 28 May 2008 07:58

"I think about it and it seems to me that there is something essential lacking in European civilization, some poison which eats into it and brings about a war every 20 years. For the average Asiatic in this war the prestige of Europe has suffered tremendously. . . . The fall of France showed up the rottenness of Western imperialism and the burden which it imposed on the people of the West. . . . Much later came the fall of Burma and Malay. This, at any rate, was a direct lesson to the British that their empire was going to pieces. But the astounding thing is that it has had little or no effect."


And I wonder what that paragon of English civilisation had to say about that-'half-nauseating, fully clothed nawab', no doubt.

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Postby Sanku » 28 May 2008 12:01

The man who saw tomorrow

The man who saw tomorrow


Vinayak Damodar Savarkar would have been 125 today. In life, he was a demonised, marginalised 'political Hindu'. Yet, in contemporary India, Savarkar stands vindicated and Savarkarism is more accepted than ever before

In 2004, when the historian Ron Chernow wrote his eponymous biography of Alexander Hamilton, he was partly impelled by the sense that his subject had not been given his due. Hamilton was an American nationalist, a votary of federal institutions, a Republican, an advocate of limited Government and a patron of the industrial society before these terms were coined or at least entirely understood. He was also the first Secretary of the Treasury of the United States and a widely influential figure in the early years of the new republic.

Yet, over the decades, memories of Hamilton's contemporaries overwhelmed his legacy. He was America's forgotten Founding Father, lost in the crevices between George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. Hamilton had opposed slavery even while his great rival Thomas Jefferson had kept slaves; yet, it wasn't Hamilton who was remembered by human rights chroniclers.

What Hamilton lost in life, Hamiltonism won in history. By the 20th century, Hamilton's ideas had triumphed. His initial postulates continue to define American strategic thinking, foreign policy and economic philosophy. Every White House resident in the past 20 years has paid homage to Ronald Reagan; Reagan himself often evoked Hamilton.

It is tempting to see Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, who would have been 125 this morning, as an Indian Alexander Hamilton. By the time he died in 1966, he had shrunk to a limited presence. Surrounded only by a few devoted adherents and members of the Hindu Mahasabha, his writings read mainly by his fellow Maharastrians, his heroic role in the freedom movement had been effaced by official historians.

Savarkar was the intellectual equal of Jawaharlal Nehru. Revisit the writings of the stalwarts of the pre-1947 period and you will encounter few besides these two with a grasp and informed assessment of contemporary world affairs. Yet, in the hard, harsh world of politics and political ideas, Savarkar, by the 1960s, had lost to Nehru's cult and charisma.

There were many reasons why the Left-liberal intelligentsia, most of whom are, in some form or the other, pensioners of the Nehruvian state structure, despised Savarkar. For a start, he was flesh-and-blood refutation of the charge that Hindu nationalism lacked an intellectual tradition. Second, he represented a cogent and coherent position that believed the political choices India and the Congress had made in 1947 (or 1950 or 1952, after the first election) were not necessarily correct.

These were inconvenient truths for Nehruvian fellow travellers, Savarkar the inconvenient man. There was astonishing virulence towards Savarkar. Some, like the perverse and bigoted Mr Mani Shankar Aiyar, even mocked the 10 years that Savarkar spent in Cellular Jail, Port Blair, in horrific conditions, alone in a tiny cell.

The antipathy to Savarkar has to be seen in a larger context. Post-independence, the Congress establishment sought to rewrite history in its own image. It determinedly underplayed the role of the early Indian elites -- the Poona Brahmins, Bombay's Parsi constitutionalists, Calcutta's Bengali and Brahmo activists -- who had dominated public life prior to the Mahatma's mass politics.

As the Congress set out to establish that there was no history and no freedom struggle before Gandhi, and no politics and no consciousness of modern India before Nehru, these pioneer groups became expendable. The Marxist historians who actually wrote the textbooks had their own theories. For instance, not just was Savarkar demonised, even the venerable Bal Gangadhar Tilak was painted in sectarian colours.

Even so, history has a strange way of getting back. Savarkar's idea of the political Hindu, of a polity and of political parties that would be sensitive to the Hindu cultural mainstay of Indian nationhood, that would, while eschewing ritualism and dogma, incorporate robust nationalism into policy-making, is more relevant than it has ever been. Nehruvianism is in retreat and, even though Savarkar has been dead 42 years, Savarkarism has never been more alive.

Written in 1923, Savarkar's slim tract, Hindutva, remains a remarkably contemporary articulation of organic nationalism. Indeed, it anticipates some of the ideas expanded upon by Samuel Huntington in Who Are We? (2004).

Leftist historians often divide Savarkar's life into two -- the supposedly "acceptable" first part, till the mid-1920s; and, his espousal of Hindutva after that. Actually, this division is bogus.

Admittedly, Savarkar's early life was one of a romantic revolutionary. As a student in London, he was in touch with Irish, Turkish and Chinese dissidents and rebels. In 1907, he wrote The War of Independence of 1857. The book was deeply researched and provided an interpretation of documents and events from the Indian perspective.

Admittedly, it is not the last word on the Indian Uprising. In hindsight, Savarkar could be accused of glossing over the differing motivations of the participants of the 1857 war and of being simplistic in believing that there was overwhelming consensus in re-establishing the Delhi throne as a Maratha protectorate -- as had been the case till 1803.

Nevertheless, this was a passionate young man of 24 writing the first non-imperial account of a dramatic struggle. It was passionate and pulsating, being smuggled to India wrapped in dust jackets saying Don Quixote and Pickwick Papers. The British Government arrested Savarkar and sought to send him to India to stand trial. At Marseilles, in a dramatic move, he squeezed out of the porthole and swam to the shore, claiming asylum from the French Government.

It was refused and he was re-arrested on French soil and handed over to the British. This was in breach of international law and among those who protested at Savarkar being denied asylum was Jean Longuet, French lawyer-editor and grandson of Karl Marx.

Savarkar was heavily influenced by Italian thinkers such as Mazzini. He saw Hindutva as an Indian Risorgimeto, conceptualising it as a reawakening of the national spirit and of a pride in, and understanding of, the territorial frontiers of India. He was not a religious sort and did not interpret 'Hindu' solely in terms of worship. He was an early opponent of Dalit exclusion, seeing a Hindu harmonisation process as essential to national unity.

Savarkar was often impatient with the RSS and it is piquant to compare him with MS Golwalkar, 'Guruji' as he is called and the man who made the Sangh the all-India institution that it is today. Savarkar was a thinker, Golwalkar a do-er; Savarkar was the rare Hindu mind who understood statecraft and the importance of state power, Golwalkar sought to change society by working bottom-up from grassroots communities. For Golwalkar (as for Gandhi), the Hindu was ascetic-exemplar; for Savarkar, he was warrior-ideal.

The two streams were not antithetical but clearly complementary. When they finally merged, consciously or otherwise, in the late-1980s, it changed Indian politics and moved the polity irrevocably to the Right. At its best, the BJP is a confluence of Savarkar and Golwalkar.

Savarkar had known it all along. Just before his death, in an emotional piece called "This, My Legacy", he had written: "If we are to live with honour and dignity as a Hindu nation -- and we have the right to do so -- that nation must emerge under the Hindu flag. This, my dream, shall come true -- if not in this generation at least in the next. If it remains an empty dream, I shall prove a fool. If it comes true, I shall prove a prophet. This, my legacy, I bequeath to you."

Savarkar is gone. Let us cherish his legacy, salute the prophet.

surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1421
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Postby surinder » 28 May 2008 22:38

They should make a movie on Savarkar's life.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 28 May 2008 22:46

They have. :D

Keshav
BRFite
Posts: 633
Joined: 20 Sep 2007 08:53
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby Keshav » 28 May 2008 23:06

If anyone is interested in Savarkar history, there is a very amazingly well done site:

http://www.savarkar.org

So far it seems pretty unbiased. Their assertions are sourced and much of their source material is on the site.

surinder wrote:They should make a movie on Savarkar's life.


Image

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303187/

It's pretty recent, too... made in 2001.

Mahendra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4414
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 17:20
Location: Chronicling Bakistan's Tryst with Dysentery

Postby Mahendra » 28 May 2008 23:16

Thanks Keshav

Raju

Postby Raju » 29 May 2008 21:22

"In response to the worst financial collapse in history, forces aligned with the British Empire, allies, assets and dupes throughout Europe and particularly in US are in a drive to provoke a third world war centred around Eurasia particularly targeting the major Asian powers China, Russia and India".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... zyAw&hl=en

"China being particularly targeted for their role in investments and offers to build infrastructure in African continent in return for access to petroleum and natural resources of the African continent".

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 29 May 2008 21:59

Raju, for god's sake, do not post conspiracy junk on the forum.

This is a serious nationalist forum.

Raju

Postby Raju » 29 May 2008 22:23

Do you have a template for conspiracy ? If so kindly put forth the same.

Rye
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 05 Aug 2001 11:31

Postby Rye » 29 May 2008 22:25

The USA would be foolish to lose all of Asia by taking on all of Russia, China, and India -- some elementary common sense would be in order before considering some bit of information as an important data point in the big picture. Connecting non-existent dots can only reveal imaginary images.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 29 May 2008 22:38

Just use common sense.

There are lots of jerks on the net who get high on fooling people - they are the ones who promote these ideas. Do not become a victim.

Raju

Postby Raju » 29 May 2008 22:38

Under a funny sounding headline whatever is said in that report makes a lot of sense.

Instead of taking everything negatively, and then trying to leech out the positives, just run the imagination in the other direction. Look at what if such technology is already there, approach the issue with an open mind.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 29 May 2008 22:43

Raju, A little circumspection is helpful. An open mind is not open season. Please take a look at the item and see if it advances or retards Indian interests. And if its neutral let it pass.

A whole lot of people visit the forum and off the mark stuff wont help the forum credibility.

Thanks, ramana

Raju

Postby Raju » 29 May 2008 22:49

Well it's not kosher now, but I can bet that it will be Kosher within 5 years from now.

the series of calamities (including bomb blasts in India) to strike Asia is in my opinion not mere coincidence. And that report is there because the speaker makes a connection between incidents happening in Tibet, Chengdu, and Myanmar. I am strongly convinced that there is a link to the three incidents to the bomb blasts in India. It is a wider plan to destabilize Asia.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Postby svinayak » 29 May 2008 23:11

abhischekcc wrote:Just use common sense.

There are lots of jerks on the net who get high on fooling people - they are the ones who promote these ideas. Do not become a victim.

La ROuche have been around for some time now. They have clues to behind the scenes planning and future direction of policy making. Read and watch them but do not take it completely true 100%. Use the info to connect with other information available in open source.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 29 May 2008 23:49

I know about La Rouche.

I also know that there are on-off rumours about the coming culling of humans.

I understand the way US economic priorities are set. And I also know how MMS has been instrumental in setting up Indian economic policy to be in sync with Western priorities, and has been doing so since 1971.

Rye
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 05 Aug 2001 11:31

Postby Rye » 29 May 2008 23:51

Acharya wrote:
Read and watch them but do not take it completely true 100%. Use the info to connect with other information available in open source.


That is where the Larouche types fall short -- a lot of what is said is not corroborated by other sources.

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 29 May 2008 23:51

Since we are talking of westernpolicy making - is it only me, or does anyone else notice the great widening rift between the Bush administration and the oil industry?

abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Postby abhischekcc » 29 May 2008 23:56

Talking of conspiracy theories - most CTs, whether left or right - are derived from a book called 'Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time '.

Most of the CTs take their input from this book, but never acknowledge its weight. Most of these guys will try to sound as if the info they are giving you was discovered by them personnaly. BARF

I'll let you have the book after some time.

Rye
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 05 Aug 2001 11:31

Postby Rye » 29 May 2008 23:57

abhishekcc wrote:
Since we are talking of westernpolicy making - is it only me, or does anyone else notice the great widening rift between the Bush administration and the oil industry?


any tips on what events/news items lead you to this conclusion?

OT, but I recently was given another CT book called "Rule by Secrecy" -- the quality of this book can only be measured in ounces of hashish. Gobs of stuff about the Illuminati and Trilateral Commission...all of the rich and powerful groups sharing the same bathtub with the lowly analysts in the CFR for some reason.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17066
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Postby Rahul M » 30 May 2008 02:53

speaking of conspiracy theories, this takes the cake !!

My favourite conspiracy theory !! :D :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Unknown_Men

According to occult lore, the Nine Unknown Men are a two millennia-old secret society founded by the Indian Emperor Asoka c. 270 BCE. According to the legend, upon his conversion to Buddhism after a massacre during one of his wars, the Emperor founded the society of the Nine to preserve and develop knowledge that would be dangerous to humanity if it fell into the wrong hands.


Some modern Indian scientists such as Jagdish Chandra Bose were said to believe in or even to be members of the Nine although documentation on this issue is predictably scant. Believers in the Nine also point to the mysterious Iron pillar of Delhi, which is said to have been constructed at a time before the technology to create it existed in common circulation.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 30 May 2008 02:56

For all you know they might be here!

Keshav
BRFite
Posts: 633
Joined: 20 Sep 2007 08:53
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby Keshav » 30 May 2008 07:09

Sorry for the OT but the "Nine Unknown Men" in some form or another would make a great Indiana Jones type movie if India every stepped up to the plate.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17066
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Postby Rahul M » 30 May 2008 07:41

^^^

exactly my thoughts !!


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests