Indian Interests

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Rahul M » 23 Jul 2008 12:10

Acharya, what are you saying ?? :eek:
everybody who has read up a bit on India's armed freedom fighters knows about him.
He is another of those super human type freedom fighter, whom pre independence India seemed to produce by the dozen, with many hair raising escapes to his credit.
Sarat Chandra Chattopadhay's 'Pather Dabi's' main character is supposed to be loosely based on him.

hope that helps.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Singha » 23 Jul 2008 12:14

I knew he was a freedom fighter but not the background in the wiki link. sounds like a very dynamic
person:

ollowing the attempt to assassinate Lord Hardinge, Rash Behari was forced to go into hiding. He was hunted by the colonial police due to his active participation in the failed bomb throwing attempt directed at the Governor General and Viceroy Lord Charles Hardinge in Delhi (the bomb was actually thrown by Basanta Kumar Biswas, a disciple of Amarendra Chatterjee). He returned to Dehra Dun by the night train and joined the office the next day as though nothing had happened. Further, he organised a meeting of loyal citizens of Dehradun to condemn the dastardly attack on the Viceroy. :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Yayavar » 23 Jul 2008 12:18

Acharya wrote:heard of
[quote="Acharya"]Anybody heard of him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rash_Behari_Bose

[quote]

Yes! Beyond what you have posted I remember one trivia that to escape the British he took Japanese citizenship through marriage.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby svinayak » 23 Jul 2008 12:57

Relax, It was a genuine question

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Remedy: Distributed Attack

Postby Sanjay M » 30 Jul 2008 03:11

Should India have multiple centre-right conservative parties, instead of just the one BJP?

At first glance, one might be inclined to say that this is the wrong way to go, because it would make conservatives more divided and bickering. But on the other hand, I think having multiple conservative parties would make it more difficult for the Left (and especially their media henchmen) to target one single party, or single set of leaders, as they currently do now against Advani, Modi, etc.

By not providing the Left with a single large target to rail at, it then would make their politics of caricature and scapegoating much more difficult. They would always be forced to reinvent new caricatures for each new face that they encountered, which would increase the risk of exposing their game. It would also confuse their simple-minded vote-banks, who would have more difficulty figuring out whom to

What would then prevent the multiple Hindu conservative parties from falling into bickering? Well, the fact that they actually have an underlying over-arching ideology that binds them to a common cause. This is what would keep them relatively coordinated with each other, even while they all existed under different names locally.

Think of the internet, and how it was designed to be resilient against catastrophic attack as a distributed network.

You can even see that modern jihadism has managed to pull this off, with umpteen number of jihadi groups operating under different names, so that it's hard for the society to keep track of them all. They are still able to coordinate their fight against us, because they are all bound together by Islamic fanaticism.

The Left are ideologically weak and brittle, and would thus have more difficulty imitating such tactics, because they are more dependent on personality cults (witness the Nehru-Gandhi phenomenon). And so if they were to try and divide themselves into many different groups, then each of these would end up going its own way, with each being loyal to its local personality cult leader, and caring little about the others.

The fact that the Hindu Right has a stronger ideology and more robust belief system in comparison to the rentable mercenary Left, means that the Hindus are much better positioned to fight a distributed guerrilla campaign against a large and lumbering Left that cannot stay unified without a large unifying collective.

Comments?

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Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies - 2

Postby Rahul M » 30 Jul 2008 04:25

interesting idea. stereotyping would become more difficult if there are more than one party.
although the question remains, is there enough political space for another right party w/o becoming a BJP clone ?

but this is awfully OT. I'm moving this to the indian interests thread.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Sanjay M » 30 Jul 2008 05:17

Oops, in that last sentence of paragraph 3, I meant to say:
"It would also confuse their simple-minded vote-banks, who would have more difficulty figuring out whom to presumptively scorn."

But anyway, I was not suggesting merely one or two extra centre-right parties, but many more of them. And each would be without some overtly identifying Hindu label.

Ostentatious labels are not necessary if the underlying ideological bonds are strong enough. As a matter of fact, if the ideological bonds are weak, then no amount of party branding (eg. Bharatiya-i-Hind, etc) is going to compensate for that weakness.

Maybe we should even use opposite kinds of party names. Hell, look at that commie newspaper The Hindu. They seem to get a really good ride for their Leftist ideology, by parading it under that banner name.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby R Vaidya » 30 Jul 2008 13:17

Invading China during the Olympics


http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1180369

Rvaidya

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2008 09:52

X-posted...

Has anybody read this paper ? How is it ?

http://www.jstor.org/pss/313159

Macaulay and the Indian Penal Code of 1862: The Myth of the Inherent Superiority and Modernity of the English Legal System Compared to India's Legal System in the Nineteenth Century

David Skuy

Modern Asian Studies, Vol. 32, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 513-557 (article consists of 45 pages)

Published by: Cambridge University Press


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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 12 Aug 2008 10:40

Wiki on East India company. I never read in one place the history of this entity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_East_India_Company

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby svinayak » 12 Aug 2008 11:53


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XI

Postby vila » 12 Aug 2008 12:48

The difference between India/Pakistan is not same as US/Iraq or Russia/Georgia. About taking action against Bangladesh without going out for a full scale war will endanger the life of 1.2 crore hindus living there.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XI

Postby chandrabhan » 12 Aug 2008 13:26

I dont understand why it always becomes an impediment taking action for national interest for us being a majority hindu country. Are we the custodian of Hindus globally? If that is the case then let the state policy be clear on this.In that case is it justifiable for India to action against Muslims? I feel that is ludicrous, Religion has got nothing to do with nationalism. I have muslim friends fighting for India - in Cyber rooms, in corporate rooms as well as on the borders.
Why don't we pick up the illegals staying in this country - 1.5 crores at the last count and shove them back to Bangladesh. India, sadly has been very badly let down by it's own sons. There is no use blaming the governement, politicos. You get the kind of government you deserve.
My apologies for diverting from the topic of the forum. Moderators can choose to delete it incase they feel it is out of place.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Philip » 12 Aug 2008 15:17

Another great betrayal by Uncle Sam,to add to its other great betrayals in history.
Why India should never depend upon its so-called friends who seduce our weak-kneed leaders to their insidous causes and when in trouble,dump their allies!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 500362.ece
We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians
As Russia forces its neighbour to retreat from South Ossetia, the people of Gori tell our correspondent of betrayal by the West
(David Mdzinarishvili/REUTERS)
A mother and child in the ravaged Georgian city of Gori, where at least 17 people were killed at the weekend when Russian jets bombed apartment blocks

Tony Halpin
Roots of Georgia-Russia conflict | Putin sends US message

As a Russian jet bombed fields around his village, Djimali Avago, a Georgian farmer, asked me: “Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?”

A similar sense of betrayal coursed through the conversations of many Georgians here yesterday as their troops retreated under shellfire and the Russian Army pressed forward to take full control of South Ossetia.

Smoke rose as Russian artillery fire exploded less than half a mile from the bridge marking South Ossetia’s border with Georgia. A group of Georgian soldiers hastily abandoned their lorry after its wheels were shot out and ran across the border.


Times Archive, 1924: The revolt in Georgia
The movement against the Bolshevists is considered to be more than a mere rising. It is considered to be a war of independence

Letter: Georgia and the Soviets
Letter: The fate of Georgia

Moscow attacks as Georgian forces sue for peace
Attempt to seize control was a gamble too far

Comment: Nato should still embrace Georgia

Pictures: Caucasus war
Georgian troops looked disheartened as they regrouped around tank lines about 2km from the border. Many said that they had been fighting in Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, until the early hours when they were suddenly ordered to withdraw from the breakaway region.

“They told us to come out – I don’t know why – but some of our guys are still out there in the fields,” one soldier told The Times. “I want to go back. If we lose South Ossetia now, it won’t be for ever because we will never surrender our land.”

President Saakashvili of Georgia has ordered a complete ceasefire and offered talks to the Russians. Despite this, the sound of gunfire and shelling could be clearly heard along the border zone last night.

Terrified civilians have fled in their thousands, convinced that Russia will not stop at the border but sweep into Georgia. Some fear that the Kremlin is intent on establishing a buffer zone to guard South Ossetia against future incursions.

Gori, normally a bustling city of 50,000 people, is largely deserted after Russian airstrikes at the weekend. Scores of people were abandoning their homes and loading possessions into vehicles or carrying what they could on foot. “There is a lot of panic. Many people have left and I am thinking of joining them. My bags are already packed,” Georgi, a 56-year-old resident of Tirdznisi, said. “We are afraid that the Russians will come here and kill us. People would not go if we had a strong army but they don’t believe in our army any more.”

Iago Jokhadze abandoned his village of Ergneti, close to Tskhinvali, after it was bombed by Russian jets yesterday. Fighting back tears, he said: “I have left everything, I don’t even have another shirt. If the Russians stay, then I can never return. We’re afraid of what the Russians can do.”

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 13 Aug 2008 09:22

X-posted from the Great Game thread.

---------------
I present: India From Regional to World power- Ashok Kapur

Its a google book.
---------------------

Please read atleast the introduction to get an idea of what were the barriers to growth of Indian national interests.

Philip I need your comments!

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby shaardula » 13 Aug 2008 09:43

ramana wrote:X-posted...

Has anybody read this paper ? How is it ?

http://www.jstor.org/pss/313159

Macaulay and the Indian Penal Code of 1862: The Myth of the Inherent Superiority and Modernity of the English Legal System Compared to India's Legal System in the Nineteenth Century

David Skuy

Modern Asian Studies, Vol. 32, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 513-557 (article consists of 45 pages)

Published by: Cambridge University Press



not working id: so here goes...

http://rapidshare.com/files/136944676/313159.pdf.html

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby sanjaykumar » 13 Aug 2008 10:22

I have not been able to read that url, but Britain devised certain nautical laws that were similar to Indan seafaring legal systems but several centuries later as the former developed into a maritime nation.

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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 17 June 2008

Postby svinayak » 13 Aug 2008 18:37

I knew you would bring the Kandahar event. You need to go beyond that now since the stakes are higher now. Political parties and corruption are a reality and peop;e have to work around it.
Pretty soon the people will have no more alternate solution and time will run out to fix the direction where the country is going.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Tanaji » 13 Aug 2008 19:29

The people get the govt they deserve.


Pardon me for being cynical, but while the above is true, these days it has become a classic and convenient excuse for the NDA and UPA to hide their shortcomings, corruptions and utter and pathetic lack of national interest. When questioned on any topic, their apologists in the media, and places like NDTV talking heads invariably say "what to do saar, we are representatives onlee... people get the govt they deserve."


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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby svinayak » 14 Aug 2008 11:28

ramana wrote:X-posted...

Has anybody read this paper ? How is it ?

http://www.jstor.org/pss/313159

Macaulay and the Indian Penal Code of 1862: The Myth of the Inherent Superiority and Modernity of the English Legal System Compared to India's Legal System in the Nineteenth Century

David Skuy

Modern Asian Studies, Vol. 32, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 513-557 (article consists of 45 pages)

Published by: Cambridge University Press



I began this paper by asking why historians accept that English law was superior to India's; or stated another way, why Britain was assumed to have a modern system and India's indigenous legal sys- tems to be primitive in comparison. Historians are keen to study the ramifications of the introduction of British law to India; and a con- sensus of opinion seems to exist that the imposition of British law eventually destroyed India's indigenous legal systems.160 That con- sensus, however, ignores two more fundamental questions: did Eng- land have a modern legal system, and exactly what does English law mean? We have seen that England's criminal law was certainly not modern in any real sense prior to the last third of the nineteenth century; and the English reform movement completely determined the procedure and substance of the Indian Penal Code; therefore, when the British introduced their criminal justice system to India in 1862, India received a set of legal principles within a particular form that reflected the needs of English society after the 183os. How can we determine the effect the introduction of English criminal law had on India unless we understand the state of English criminal law at the time of its introduction and the history behind it.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby svinayak » 14 Aug 2008 11:30

Tanaji wrote:
The people get the govt they deserve.


Pardon me for being cynical, but while the above is true, these days it has become a classic and convenient excuse for the NDA and UPA to hide their shortcomings, corruptions and utter and pathetic lack of national interest. When questioned on any topic, their apologists in the media, and places like NDTV talking heads invariably say "what to do saar, we are representatives onlee... people get the govt they deserve."

I have put some thinking on this. Only way is for the ordinary people who care to join these parties and change them.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Pulikeshi » 14 Aug 2008 12:19

ramana wrote:X-posted...
Has anybody read this paper ? How is it ?


Ramana,

That paper argues that indeed English Law itself was not modern and perhaps not even superior to Hindu or Muslim law at the time it was introduced into India, prior to the first war of Independence. The conclusion of this paper are indeed spot on. However, no one has looked in depth into Hindu or Muslim Law at that time and made a comparison to English Penal or Civil law of the time - AFAIK.

What is interesting is that several details about Hindu law were well know already before that war. However, they were more structurally adopted for example and implemented as part of Indian law post the war. Also, we are talking criminal versus civil law in the article.

Read for example: Hindu Law - As administered in the courts of British India

See for example chapter I - page 3:
The last source of Hindu law, which is, however, the original basis on which all decided cases rest, is to be found in the ancient authorities, which must be consulted upon any point not yet illustrated by judicial decision. These authorities are the Smrithis-i.e., recollections handed down by the Rishis or sages of antiquity, the Code of Menu, the works of Yajnavalkya, Narada and others. Practically the commentaries on these works are the starting point of Hindu law, the chief of which are the Mitakshara, by Vijnanesvara, and the Dayabhaga, by Jimutavahana.


Now most of India at that time followed Mitakshara, written by Vijnanesvara a law giver in the Western Chalukya court in the 12 century. The Dayabhaga, written by Jimutavahana was only in vogue in Bengal and Assam. Of course Colebrooke translated these works into English.
Albeit, I have not been able to find those works as yet.

Here is where some of my arguments for rewriting the Smrithi comes in. We have not updated these texts since the 12th century. The body of Dharmic law once amended should form the basis for reforming Hindu Civil law at least, and should be one of the factors for fixing the Indian Common Criminal law itself.

Chapter I - Page 5:
It must be observed that Hindus can change the school of law by which they are governed as readily as they can change religion


This is patently untrue. Hindus could indeed change the school of law only under special circumstances, such as migration to another territory, excommunication from ones own school, etc.
Of course with the coming of Common Law for the penal code, Hindu Law became restricted to Civil law for Hindus at best and even there it did not remain a stable substrate. Much work has to be done to breath life into it again. However, there are no law givers left - only Common Law educated lawyers.

A lot needs to be done on this front, but so little time and so many things to do :((

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby RajeshA » 14 Aug 2008 15:26

Posting it here for the lack of a more suitable thread perhaps "Idea of India" or something similar..

In India, idealism falters in the face of power by Anand Giridharadas: IHT

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 14 Aug 2008 20:19

Pullekishi thanks for the comments. My grandfather wrote book on Hindu Law of Adoption and won a gold medal from Uty of Madras around 1905. Will get the family copy and read it next time am in desh.

Yes the smritis need to be relooked with modern eyes.


From above paper

We have seen that England's criminal law was certainly not modern in any real sense prior to the last third of the nineteenth century; and the English reform movement completely determined the procedure and substance of the Indian Penal Code; therefore, when the British introduced their criminal justice system to India in 1862, India received a set of legal principles within a particular form that reflected the needs of English society after the 183os. How can we determine the effect the introduction of English criminal law had on India unless we understand the state of English criminal law at the time of its introduction and the history behind it.


There was this story about how Australian PM Rudd's ancestors were convicts deported to Australia and there was a description of the crimes and the ages and punishments. It seems most of them were children who committed economic crimes and were to be hanged or deported. In modern days such sentences are considered barbaric. And this was English law in late 18th/early 19th century.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Bharati » 14 Aug 2008 22:36

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.as ... nter_img=5
SC notices to Centre, DMK on free colour TV sop

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Pulikeshi » 15 Aug 2008 00:14

ramana wrote:Pullekishi thanks for the comments. My grandfather wrote book on Hindu Law of Adoption and won a gold medal from Uty of Madras around 1905. Will get the family copy and read it next time am in desh.


If there is a way to share the work, please do. It is important to preserve and continue such works.

Couple more points on this paper, which I read a while ago... but had some nagging questions on.

In my view, the missing element is the English criminal law reform movement in the nineteenth century. We have seen how Indian law reform mirrored developments in England: court reforms in the 182os and 183os in India occurred while the Peel Acts were passed; Macaulay wrote a criminal code for India while a Royal Commission wrote one for England; Macaulay submitted his Code to Parliament the same year Parliament passed the 1837 Acts; the Indian Law Commission reviewed Macaulay's Code in 1847-48 just as the second Royal Commission finished its draft criminal code; and a few months before the Indian Penal Code became law, the British Parlia- ment passed the 1861 Acts. In substantive and procedural terms, the Indian Penal Code reflected developments in English law. So to answer the question of why there was such a long delay in enacting the Indian Penal Code, one need only examine developments in England. Moreover, the delay in passing the Indian Penal Code is not really that long if one considers those developments. I have argued that Macaulay began to write a code for India because England's legal institutions had begun to reform English criminal law, and not because of the state of Indian law. Only when the Bloody Code began to disappear was English jurisprudence sophisticated enough to stimulate a penal code like Macaulay's. Only by the 185os was England in a position to enact its own criminal code, so the delay to this point in the passage of Macaulay's Code should come as no surprise.

Therefore, we are left with only a decade during which it is reason- able to assume Britain could have passed the Indian Penal Code, and perhaps only during this period is it fair to say that the Rebellion ended British indifference.


I though there was a "Indian" commission that Macaulay headed to re-write the criminal code for India. The statement above seems to indicate that Macaulay himself wrote the Indian Criminal Code. :shock: :?:

Also, why was England only in a position to enact this law in 1850s?
Fundamentally, was there collaboration between the "Indian" commission and the Royal Commission?
Does that explain the delay?

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 15 Aug 2008 00:21

My late brother used to say even the US Criminal Procedure code was developed in late 1860s and a commission went round the world and found the Indian one to be the most comprehensive and tailored it to their needs. Apparently immigrant Indian lawyers of the 1970s, found it quite easy to adjust as they were already familair with the structure.

Also recall it was the Victorian era that English law was reformed. then there was Charles Dickens highlighting the problems. The prosperity of the early 1800s due to the lead from Industrial Revolution allowed England to make those reforms. It wasnt possible before that.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Prem » 16 Aug 2008 09:51

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMWostFw ... re=related
Sanskrit is not dead..yet!

A must watch . :)

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 18 Aug 2008 21:08

Deccan Chroncile , 18 August 2008

Ignorance, arrogance retard India’s battle against terror
By Arun Kumar Singh

A day after the nation celebrated Independence Day last week, the Gujarat police announced it had cracked the July 26 bomb blasts case with the arrest of 10 Simi activists from Uttar Pradesh. This was a welcome development, as was the decision to set up an anti-terrorist academy in Gandhinagar. But one cannot but be bewildered by a series of recent events:

* The narrow escape of Surat, where 29 unexploded bombs were found;

* The disastrous incidents in Jammu and Kashmir in the past six weeks, after a new governor was installed;

* The statement on August 12 by the national security adviser that since 2004, about 800 terror modules had been unearthed (given a rough thumb rule of five undiscovered modules for every one unearthed, some 4,000 sleeper cells are still unaccounted for);

* In Uttar Pradesh, counterfeit rupee notes worth thousands of crores found in SBI branches;

* At the Beijing Olympics, a nation of one billion-plus finally got its first individual gold medal since the modern Games started in 1896;

* Inauguration of the same Olympic Games was attended by Sonia Gandhi, making this her second visit to China in a year despite ongoing Chinese incursions along the border;

* Pakistan, despite its ongoing war on terror along the Afghan border, and its preoccupation with impeaching President Pervez Musharraf, found time to violate the four-year-old ceasefire on the Line of Control almost on a weekly basis;

* Russia, alarmed by the eastward expansion of Nato, sent its armed forces into Georgia;

* India remained focused on the progress of the nuclear deal with the US despite various American spokespersons saying there were no inconsistencies between the 123 Agreement, the Hyde Act and the 1954 US Atomic Energy Act.

I have been astounded by some recent statements by so-called experts and retired government bureaucrats. Here are a few samples: A retired bureaucrat told me that "changing borders or creating new nations was no longer possible, and the 1971 creation of Bangladesh was an aberration." He was stumped when I reminded him about the breakup of the Soviet Union into 15 states, and Yugoslavia into another four. But with typical arrogance, borne out of spending years in the "corridors of power", he stated these too were "aberrations".

He got rather upset when I mentioned East Timor, because he was not even aware of this new nation which had been carved out of Indonesia!

There was another retired bureaucrat who said that despite the recent bomb blasts, "India had nothing to learn from the United States, the UK, China, Russia or Spain, because we were too big, too complex... And in any case, we had taught these nations how to build computerised terrorist data banks. Yes, there will be terror attacks, but we have the resilience to withstand these." He had no answer when I told him: "No human being likes to get blown up or see his family killed or maimed, and it’s only a matter of time before the people of India demand accountability from politicians, bureaucrats and policemen in this undeclared war on terror. After all, following the 1962 war with China, the Army Chief and a corps commander were sacked, and defence minister Krishna Menon was shifted to another ministry."

Let me give you the example of the US, which officially declared war on terror after 9/11.

The US set up the department of homeland security and passed the USA Patriot Act in 2001. Yes, there were some complaints against this draconian but effective law.

So in July 2005, a few cosmetic changes were made. In addition, the homeland security department added a few new sections to deal with "privacy, civil rights, civil liberties." This law now has 25 sections covering every conceivable field, electronically connected by instant data link — these include data banks, airports, seaports, roadways, inland waterways, nuclear, medical, narcotics, immigration, customs, emergencies, US Coast Guard, transportation, border management, intelligence, and emergency management, among others. In India, as in any democracy, the war on terror requires democratically-elected politicians to be advised by bureaucrats, police, intelligence and paramilitary units; the armed forces are only called in as a last resort. The problem is that amongst the "advisers" we have a disastrously lethal combination of ignorance, arrogance, non-accountability and unwillingness to either learn from others or from our own past mistakes.

The concept of "real-time electronic-based situational awareness, from the top to the field operative" is simply unknown to most of these people. It must be realised that the "policeman on the beat" can only deter petty criminals and not fanatic, suicidal jihadis. The proposed police reforms were framed in the pre-global terrorism era, and its results are there for all to see in Jammu and Kashmir, the 13 Naxalite-infested states, the seven Northeast states, and by the recent terrorist strikes. Added to this is the situation on our borders with China and Pakistan, and the estimated 20 million illegal Bangladeshi migrants — all of which present a clear security threat to this nation. By now, even the most broadminded and secular Indian will agree that we have a fifth column operating in India. Given the present state of affairs, it is imperative that the government officially declares that India is in a state of prolonged war with faceless and stateless terrorists, and that a policy of "zero tolerance" would be adopted to counter them. Once a state of war is declared, certain ruthless wartime measures can be taken, some restrictions can be placed, new ordinances and laws passed, a new wartime integral organisation can be instituted, forces raised and equipped under an unified command, fast-track courts set up and accountability introduced.

The time has come to forget votebank politics and do something different, because the people of India are not sacrificial goats.

Vice-Admiral Arun Kumar Singh retired as Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Eastern Naval Command, Visakhapatnam



Even on BR the hubris of retired officials was questioned often.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby vsudhir » 19 Aug 2008 01:48

Arvind Subramanian: The growth future - India and China (Biz std)

Worthwhile read comparing institutional factors aiding/slowing the growth story in the Asian giants.

Contrast that with the Indian experience. While there are many exceptions, and at the considerable risk of over-generalising, the Indian state despite rapid economic growth has deteriorated over time. Whether it is providing basic law and order, or ensuring sanctity of contract, or delivering public services, the stench of decline is hard to ignore. For example, on a crude measure of government effectiveness on which I compiled data across time, India’s performance declined sharply: in the early 1960s, India was in the top 5th percentile of countries in the sample, slipping to the middle of the pack in recent years (http://www.petersoninstitute.org/public ... n0407b.pdf). The education example discussed earlier is an exception to the growth-institutions dynamic, made possible only because of private alternatives to state supply. For the core public sector functions, where such an alternative does not exist, the growth-institutions dynamic has been weak or non-existent.

So, growth in India has come with a more entrepreneurial private sector but accompanied by deteriorating state capacity. China has a vastly superior state capacity but an indigenous private sector that is still finding its feet. Which combination augurs better for the future?


This I found disturbing but essentially true.

There is a fundamental asymmetry between state and markets. It is easier to create markets than it is to create state capacity or to prevent its deterioration. Creating markets is a lot about letting go, establishing a reasonable policy framework, and allowing the natural hustling instinct to take over. In other words, hustling is the natural state. Building state capacity, on the other hand, is quite different. It involves overcoming collective action problems, mediating conflict, creating accountability mechanisms where outputs are multiple and fuzzy and links between inputs and outputs murky, and contending with the deep imprints of history. In Weber’s memorable words, building public institutions is like the “slow boring of hard boards”.

In that light, China’s task of improving its private sector seems easier to accomplish than India’s task of arresting institutional decline. So, while China and India can probably both count on more years of high growth, the odds still favour China pulling off that feat than India. That, and not just the meagre medal tally, should be what India mulls over as the curtain descends on the Beijing Olympics.

Philip
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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Philip » 20 Aug 2008 16:46

This should be the national stand.The Russian threat to Poland as it is on the verge of signing an agreement that permits US ABM systems on Polish soil.An excellent national doctrine.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 541613.ece

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the Russian armed forces' deputy chief of staff, issued the extraordinary threat in an interview with Interfax, a Russian news agency.

“Poland, by deploying [the system] is exposing itself to a strike - 100 per cent,” he was quoted as saying, before explaining that Russian military doctrine sanctioned the use of nuclear weapons “against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them”.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 24 Aug 2008 07:05

sometime back someone had asked me why the Indian elite is against the bomb. i had said that they were traumatized by Hiroshima and Nirad C. Chaudari had explained it well

Here is link to his paper but full one needs payment.

from JSTOR

Subhas Chandra Bose- His Legacy and Legend

ramana
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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 24 Aug 2008 07:16

About linguistics and politics.

Amar Shaheed Bhagat Singhji

The problem of Punjab's language and script

And you thought he was only a revolutionary!

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Adrija » 24 Aug 2008 19:25

Bhai log, came across this

http://www.claysanskritlibrary.org/index.php

Does anyone know of the people behind this? Any of Wendy's children, or her influence? Just wanted to check before spending monies on these guys....

TIA

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby IVikas » 25 Aug 2008 10:29

^^Adrija, Wendy Doniger's name is there on the people page (under Translators)
http://www.claysanskritlibrary.org/people.php

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby Adrija » 25 Aug 2008 11:39

Thanks IVikas.... guess I missed it. What a pity, would have been a really good thing if done properly :cry: . Incidentally, the review of the translated Buddhacarita (Asvagosha) by these guys was positively gushing in Time magazine (that's how I first came across Clay).

Actually there are a lot of Sanskrit and hindi literature I know of which is just crying out for translation and a wider audience e.g., "Sanskriti ke chaaar adhyay", "Yughandar" in Hindi. I am sure there is equally nationalistic stuff in Bengali and Marathi at least... very important for us to understand our past trhough our own perspective and not by what the gora has written/ twisted.....

Maybe we could sponsor a translation of regional literature into English- by Indians for Indians-to break the hold of Wendy, Romi, Irfan and gang on our past?

ramana
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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby ramana » 25 Aug 2008 22:15

Is it possible to setup a translation outsource group for such literature? I mean there are many Sanskrit scholars who can do the needful and have it peer reviewed by others who are Sanskrit scholars and English majors to ensure language doesnt come out dorky.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby putnanja » 25 Aug 2008 23:09

When some of these westerners who are not very well versed in hindu customs/traditions translate sanskrit works, some of the subtleties in the works get lost or mistranslated as they are not aware of it. And given their funding/reach, they become the official text books in universities worldwide instead of translated works by Indians which are available in local languages.

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Re: Indian Interests - 7

Postby RamaY » 27 Aug 2008 05:27

Dont know where to discuss this..

Orissa: Bandh-related violence claims 9

It is interesting how the Orissa issue is turning out...

The swami-ji is against religious conversions, especially by Christian missionaries in the guise of economic help.

Suddenly (allegedly) Naxalites attack the ashram and kill the swami and 4 others. But the media doesn’t ask why Naxalites kill a swami for fighting against religious conversions. They neither say clearly, Naxals are protecting EJ interests.

So we have Jehadi’s to fight for Islam and Naxals for EJs. Does this mean GOI, Media, and NGOs condone violence as a mean to protect and enhance a community’s interest?

Or is their opinion is that the police and army in India are to protect only Hindu interests, so minorities can have their own extra-constitutional methods and forces???

What is this nonsense????


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