Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

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sudeepj
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby sudeepj » 09 May 2010 23:10

That the behaviour of different State Police organizations with the poor is pretty bad in India, is not exactly news. Bribes, grease money, brutality and sometimes outright criminal acts is something that poor citizens and sometimes even the better off folks have to bear with everyday. For e.g. there was the case of the Delhi policeman who was part of a bank robbery gang in Rajasthan and countless others.

Whats different in this photograph is the policeman pointing his weapon at the two guys. That points to a level of casual brutality that one sees and expects from US police or COIN organizations, not Indian. Perhaps this is an undesirable side effect of training with US COIN forces, and we are slowly seeing these undesirable brutal tactics percolate into our own forces.

You can see that theres a suit (probably a higher level officer) standing about 10 meters away from the two guys on the ground. In this situation, the two guys should have been frisked and then the policemen should have stood at ease. If they havent been frisked, if one of them is carrying, say a soosai bum, its not as if pointing an Insas at him would stop him from detonating it. If they have been frisked, the source of threat is not from the prone guys anymore! So the weapon pointing is simply an exercise in intimidation.

These kind of brutal US SWAT type tactics will help in preventing the death of the odd policeman or soldier, but create 10 more insurgents or insurgent sympathizers. One must also keep in mind the ubiquity of cameras and video recorders these days (theres one in every cell phone, and India has 500 million cellphones). If pictures of such brutality leak out, they can undo the years worth of progress in the COIN effort in days. Insurgents are skilled users of propaganda materials and the insurgency is as much in the information space as on the ground. Such carelessness can delegitimize COIN efforts both in the Indian as well as international public opinion.

I hope that the suit in the photo is questioned about the tactics of his force and is cautioned to be more careful in future.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rohitvats » 09 May 2010 23:24

sudeepj wrote:
<SNIP>

Whats different in this photograph is the policeman pointing his weapon at the two guys. That points to a level of casual brutality that one sees and expects from US police or COIN organizations, not Indian. Perhaps this is an undesirable side effect of training with US COIN forces, and we are slowly seeing these undesirable brutal tactics percolate into our own forces.

<SNIP>



:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby sudeepj » 10 May 2010 00:00

rohitvats wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
<SNIP>
Whats different in this photograph is the policeman pointing his weapon at the two guys. That points to a level of casual brutality that one sees and expects from US police or COIN organizations, not Indian. Perhaps this is an undesirable side effect of training with US COIN forces, and we are slowly seeing these undesirable brutal tactics percolate into our own forces.
<SNIP>



:roll: :roll: :roll:


From your reaction, I guess you will roll your eyes when staring down a gun barrel? I am impressed by your bahaduri.. :-)

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Brando » 10 May 2010 00:23

Craig Alpert wrote:Russian warship Moskva at Kochi


That is one butt-ugly ship! :wink:

Look at those stacks of P-500 Bazalt SSM aka Sandbox Ship to surface cruise missiles; can take out a decent city with 16 of those! Not to forget 8 VLS tubes with 12 Osa and 40 Gecko SAMs. With today's vogue stealth design aesthetic, ship designers would be hard pressed to pack in the same kind of punch that these old Soviet ships had while providing a low Radar/infrared/acoustic/visual silhouette.

Would be nice to see if the P15A destroyers of the Indian navy pack something similar to the P-500 or P-700 Granit type of Land-attack cruise missiles.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rohitvats » 10 May 2010 00:49

sudeepj wrote:
rohitvats wrote:<SNIP>
Whats different in this photograph is the policeman pointing his weapon at the two guys. That points to a level of casual brutality that one sees and expects from US police or COIN organizations, not Indian. Perhaps this is an undesirable side effect of training with US COIN forces, and we are slowly seeing these undesirable brutal tactics percolate into our own forces.
<SNIP>



:roll: :roll: :roll:


From your reaction, I guess you will roll your eyes when staring down a gun barrel? I am impressed by your bahaduri.. :-)


What has my post got to do with staring down the business end of a gun barrel? Have I commented any where on the possibilities of the event in the pic? Did you notice <SNIP> before and after the section of post that I've quoted?What do you think that means?

So, you think it is the American influence which trigerred that behaviour from Security Forces in the pic? And what is the basis of your opinion? How about answering these simple questions:

Who has trained in India with US Forces? And how many times? And where? Is it the IA which has cross trained with US Forces or were other Security forces also involved? If it is the IA which has only cross trained, then how come troops in the reference pic are using US methods? Are these from IA? Or were these troops trained by the very section of IA which cross trained with US Forces?

Unless, you know answer to these questions, your argument is nothing but hot air and off the cuff statement.

We've not been able to percolate the exp of IA to CPO engaged in anit-naxal ops and you're talking about the US Methods. As if, we need to learn from them and that too in CI Ops.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby nachiket » 10 May 2010 01:43

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Journalistic standards in India leave a lot to be desired, however, freedom of the press is one of our strengths. It allows us to see all aspects.



Not when the "Free" press seems hell-bent on misrepresenting the facts.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby sudeepj » 10 May 2010 02:05

rohitvats wrote:
From your reaction, I guess you will roll your eyes when staring down a gun barrel? I am impressed by your bahaduri.. :-)


What has my post got to do with staring down the business end of a gun barrel? Have I commented any where on the possibilities of the event in the pic? Did you notice <SNIP> before and after the section of post that I've quoted?What do you think that means?


The little that there was in your post could have been interpreted in any way. Unfortunately, I am not very fluent in the language of SNIP and smiley, so my apologies if I misunderstood your intent.

So, you think it is the American influence which trigerred that behaviour from Security Forces in the pic? And what is the basis of your opinion? How about answering these simple questions:


Did you notice the 'Perhaps' before the idea that its American influence?

We've not been able to percolate the exp of IA to CPO engaged in anit-naxal ops and you're talking about the US Methods. As if, we need to learn from them and that too in CI Ops.


No, we dont need to learn from Americans, that is the idea I was putting forward. The squad level tactics of having a suspect covered by weapons pointed at him/her at all times, handcuffing suspects in public before talking to them, subduing people by making them lie prone and placing a boot or a knee on their neck to prevent movement are all US style tactics of dealing with insurgencies in foreign lands. The picture in question suggests that at least a part of these American style tactics were being followed. In my opinion, these tactics are excessive and will be counter productive in the long run.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 10 May 2010 06:30

sudeepj wrote:You can see that theres a suit (probably a higher level officer) standing about 10 meters away from the two guys on the ground. In this situation, the two guys should have been frisked and then the policemen should have stood at ease. If they havent been frisked, if one of them is carrying, say a soosai bum, its not as if pointing an Insas at him would stop him from detonating it. If they have been frisked, the source of threat is not from the prone guys anymore! So the weapon pointing is simply an exercise in intimidation.


sudeepj, I don't disagree with your view or your right to hold it, but attaching that viewpoint to this still photo is a bogey that must be demolished the way it deserves to be demolished. There are serious problems that arise from making up a whole Ramayana from a still photograph. I suppose you do own a camera that takes stills. A daylight photograph can be obtained in a still that has been exposed for 1/50th of a second or less (usually much less), which technically means at least 50 photographs per second.

All I want to know is that when you have a scene that depicts 1/50 of a second or less of an event, how are you able to surmise what happened before that 1/50 second still and what should happen after? Surely the inferences you are drawing can be drawn without any photograph, if the "evidence" for your views is a visual scene depicting 0.02% (or less) of a ten second event, or less than 0.01% of an event that may have lasted one minute? Why not make your post in the absence of a photo so nobody can point out what is a glaring and laughable hole in your story?

And with respect may I point out that you are talking of a scene from Hollywood where people are asked to stand still (perhaps leaning against a wall) for frisking. Could you please tell me what would happen if a suspect refused to allow frisking but collapsed on to the ground, started crying and begging for mercy?

Finally could you point out exactly where the INSAS and soosai bum came from in your story? If it is a metaphorical INSAS and soosai, what connection does your story have with the photograph? The photo is an obvious strawman that you are using to concoct a fable. No??

It's one thing to romantically state that every photo tells a story. The only question is whether it tells the true story or not. One can cook up a number of different stories from the same still, just like one can cook up a number of scenarios of making love to a beautiful model or actress from one Playboy centerspread of the type I kept pinned up in my room for 5 years. Now what if I started telling the stories I concocted in my mind about that lady? Could I be arrested for indecent assault on the basis of those stories?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby AdityaM » 10 May 2010 11:40

Keep discussion out of this thread.
It clearly says: "Miscellaneous Pictures".
a lot of words but not a single picture on this page yet
post count+1

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Jaeger » 10 May 2010 11:44

Shiv, that's a good point. However, I still think there's a lacuna in the media's self-regulatory mechanism. I don't think the Indian media cares... actually strike that - I think the media PREFERS to use images that create a stereotype of state brutality.
Using your point, there could have been a long story behind that image, but the editor has chosen to use THAT specific image to represent the events that unfolded. Why?

Last OT post.

chandanus
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby chandanus » 10 May 2010 12:14

MODS...this thread contains very less pictures and contains to much discussions...please look into this ...

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Gaur » 10 May 2010 14:14

OK...finally some pictures in pictures thread. :mrgreen:
Image
Image
IMHO, this is one ugly camo. And before everyone starts jumping on me, let me state that I know that looks do not matter and it may very well be that this camo would better suit IA's needs (specially in non desert areas). I say this only from an aesthetic POV.
Phew, you have gotta be careful around here. :mrgreen:

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby kancha » 10 May 2010 14:31

Who are these guys posing in front of the tank?
Call me paranoid, but these pix seem to be sort of personal photos and by that virtue alone, not something that should be in the public domain. Where did you come across these?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Gaur » 10 May 2010 14:35

^^
The black berets are obviously from armoured regiment. The person posing is wearing grey beret. I have not seen that before.
As for the source:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?89961-Indian-Armed-Forces/page272

Added Later: IIRC, grey berets are worn by Army Aviation Corps.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby ticky » 10 May 2010 14:59

Grey berets in pic are IMA GCs. look at their shoulder tabs

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby chiru » 10 May 2010 15:46

that TETRIS CAMO looks odd but im sure its really close to a dgital camo and would be hard to spot it from long distances

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby pmund » 10 May 2010 18:16

Ah, the grey beret :)

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 10 May 2010 18:50

haraam - deleted and posted in newbie therad
Last edited by shiv on 11 May 2010 06:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Anshul » 10 May 2010 19:09

Digital Camo notwithstanding....the T-90 looks hand painted.Rohit is this accomplished by the scores of new recruits with paint brush and paint...or do we have a special paint shop for the tanks.

I have seen a fair bit of MT/EME guys paint up their lambrettas,priyas and lunas in the same colour as the shaktimans and stallions.They use up their spare time like that.Specially the "Thambis" :wink:

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 10 May 2010 19:09

Jaeger wrote:Shiv, that's a good point. However, I still think there's a lacuna in the media's self-regulatory mechanism. I don't think the Indian media cares... actually strike that - I think the media PREFERS to use images that create a stereotype of state brutality.
Using your point, there could have been a long story behind that image, but the editor has chosen to use THAT specific image to represent the events that unfolded. Why?

Last OT post.


My response here
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5443&p=870132#p870132

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby madhusudhan_r » 18 May 2010 13:34

Found this Jaguar pic during my stay in AFSB . what is it carrying in its center line hard point :?:

Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Pratik_S » 19 May 2010 09:05

madhusudhan_r wrote:Found this Jaguar pic during my stay in AFSB . what is it carrying in its center line hard point :?:


Its the ALQ-101 ECM pod.
Here another image:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2261/210 ... ff13cc.jpg

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby tsarkar » 19 May 2010 12:33

No, it’s the indigenously developed Tusker ECM pod. Its got nothing in common with US systems. Its been around for a long time.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rakall » 19 May 2010 16:29

smpratik wrote:
madhusudhan_r wrote:Found this Jaguar pic during my stay in AFSB . what is it carrying in its center line hard point :?:


Its the ALQ-101 ECM pod.
Here another image:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2261/210 ... ff13cc.jpg



It is the "Tusker" pod.. Please see below limks

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_418.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/tusker.jpg

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Pratik_S » 19 May 2010 17:07

Ok my bad, they both look similar.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby praaateek » 21 May 2010 14:11

Saw these two tanks (most likely Arjun) in south Delhi on monday nigh....seemed they coming from some trials or somthing...full of mud , lid open..but yeah waz amazing sight to see them in real.

Image

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Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Austin » 21 May 2010 14:22

Looks to me more like Vijayanta tank

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rohitvats » 21 May 2010 14:32

Austin wrote:Looks to me more like Vijayanta tank


That is correct. And that too on a civilian carrier.

There is one lying here in Bangalore - has been recently painted fresh. IMO, this is going to be placed as a monument somewhere...Remember what d_berwal sahab said - Vijayantas and T-55 being replaced with T-90. Seems, IA is donating these for placement across the country.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 21 May 2010 14:51

rohitvats wrote:
Austin wrote:Looks to me more like Vijayanta tank


That is correct. And that too on a civilian carrier.

There is one lying here in Bangalore - has been recently painted fresh. IMO, this is going to be placed as a monument somewhere...Remember what d_berwal sahab said - Vijayantas and T-55 being replaced with T-90. Seems, IA is donating these for placement across the country.


For your viewing pleasure saar. Sorry about the amputated barrel

Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby viveks » 21 May 2010 15:33

Man dont waste thread space until ur absolutely sure. Bacha says to mumma...maaa look ....'Optimus Prime' (transformers)...ahahahah!!!

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rohitvats » 21 May 2010 15:34

shiv wrote:
<SNIP>

For your viewing pleasure saar. Sorry about the amputated barrel

<SNIP>



Now now now, if there ever was a true blue jingo.... :mrgreen: :P :mrgreen:

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby praaateek » 21 May 2010 15:44

I doubt it waz vijayanta...because it waz much larger and bulkier..than it...

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Jagan » 21 May 2010 17:23

praaateek wrote:I doubt it waz vijayanta...because it waz much larger and bulkier..than it...



vijayanta :mrgreen:

but dont fret, catching a tank on the move in a city is always a pretty great catch...

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 21 May 2010 18:17

rohitvats wrote:
shiv wrote:
<SNIP>

For your viewing pleasure saar. Sorry about the amputated barrel

<SNIP>



Now now now, if there ever was a true blue jingo.... :mrgreen: :P :mrgreen:



I will get a better pic when it gets mounted on that platform they are building right in front of it. The other interesting thing in the pic (for me) is that you can just see the first green and second tee off area of the ASC golf course behind the building in the pic.

This tank will be on display just a few hundred meters down the road from the Paki Patton abandoned in Patton nagar after the battle of Asal Uttar in 1965. (Photo exists on BR)

I was trying to get a better pic of the barrel from another angle when a civilian worker informed me "Woh bandook hai. Usme se goli nikalta hai" (That is a gun which fires a shell). I could not resist teasing him by saying "Yeh to Tank hai na? Tank se kaise goli niklega? Tank se to paani aana hai na? (This is a Tank. How can you get shells from a tank? You can only get water) The poor guy must have thought I was nuts - but his pals had a good laugh.

sorry OT

The bengaluru Patton from Asal Uttar
Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby madhusudhan_r » 21 May 2010 21:00

which is this pod on a mig-27 :?:
Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Austin » 21 May 2010 21:04

Probably Lightening Pod , the Mig-27 post upgrade were suppose to get Lightening integration.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military - Manipur Polic

Postby kaangeya » 22 May 2010 00:07

Manipur is a dangerous place with drug runners and thugs of all kinds. This is probably a swoop on informers and coerced civilian sympathisers (who are thoroughly in the grip of Stockholm's.

You can never be too careful. The thugs may be inside the shack, and these may be lookouts, the thugs may have given the slip and these civilians may be putting up a show to simply keep the cops pinned down. Whatever it is quick action should be taken. I am reassured to see well armed police teams. A show of force is absolutely necessary. I know that we have enough to destroy any rebel or criminal gang many times over. But once in a while the forces must prove that they can do so.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Sid » 22 May 2010 01:03

kaangeya wrote:Manipur is a dangerous place with drug runners and thugs of all kinds. This is probably a swoop on informers and coerced civilian sympathisers (who are thoroughly in the grip of Stockholm's.

You can never be too careful. The thugs may be inside the shack, and these may be lookouts, the thugs may have given the slip and these civilians may be putting up a show to simply keep the cops pinned down. Whatever it is quick action should be taken. I am reassured to see well armed police teams. A show of force is absolutely necessary. I know that we have enough to destroy any rebel or criminal gang many times over. But once in a while the forces must prove that they can do so.


oh hoo... 486 processor in my brain almost died trying to link your comment to a pic posted weeks ago :D

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Bolasani » 22 May 2010 23:11

I caught these birds today morning during the practice session. Full sized images here.

1. Image

2. Image

3. Image

4. Image

5. Image

6. Image

7. Image

Could somebody please identify the birds in images numbers 3 and 6.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Jagan » 22 May 2010 23:32

Excellent pics. Seems you and Sanjay Simha were hanging aroundat the same time. He sent in this picture of the same dornier.
Image

Me thinks this is the newest produced example out there.. never noted before.

The LCH with Dhruv pics though blurry is a great catch. as is the IAF grey dhruv... havent seen many pics of them


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