Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

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vivek_ahuja
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby vivek_ahuja » 19 Oct 2008 02:51

Jagan wrote:Vivek, Nice pics - but is there any reason why the print quality sucks? Would you be able to scan better res images ?


Jagan,

there are a few reasons that I can think of regarding print quality:

a) These images have been drastically resized for posting on this thread. The original images are pretty large and some are nearly wallpaper sizes. They obviously show things more clearly.

b) The original images themselves are pretty old and had not been properly maintained prior to my taking over. I was just as disappointed by the condition of the images as you are.

I have the large sized images scanned so I could send them across if you think they can be added somewhere on BR Army History section. Is there any other way the quality could be improved that I should try before sending them to you?

-Vivek

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Jagan » 19 Oct 2008 02:58

Vivek, mail sent. email me one of the Raw Scans and I will see if things can be improved.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Jagan » 19 Oct 2008 02:59

Kancha has contributed these pictures recently

Image

a few more here

Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby maz » 27 Oct 2008 03:44


Aditya G
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Aditya G » 27 Oct 2008 12:18

Hi, whats the story behind Sri Lanka pics .... and hows your Op Pawan book coming along?

Jagan wrote:Kancha has contributed these pictures recently

Image

a few more here

Image

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby JaiS » 27 Oct 2008 19:20

India Infantry Day

Caption : Member of an Indian army band is reflected on a brass stick as he stands in attention during a ceremony to mark Infantry Day at a war memorial on the outskirts of Amritsar, India, Oct. 27, 2008. The day is observed in commemoration of Indian Army?s infantrymen who first air landed in the Kashmir Valley and overpowered the Pakistani invaders on October 27, 1947. (AP Photo/Altaf Qadri)

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Aditya G » 27 Oct 2008 19:53

INDIAN OCEAN (Oct. 20, 2008) Cmdr. Darryl Walker, left, executive officer of the "Cougars" of Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron (VAQ) 139, speaks with Lt. Vikram Kottaju, an Indian Air Force Sea Harrier pilot, about flight deck operations aboard the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76). (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Gary Prill/Released)

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 0P-086.jpg

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Naidu » 27 Oct 2008 20:11

Aditya G wrote:INDIAN OCEAN (Oct. 20, 2008) Cmdr. Darryl Walker, left, executive officer of the "Cougars" of Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron (VAQ) 139, speaks with Lt. Vikram Kottaju, an Indian Air Force Sea Harrier pilot, about flight deck operations aboard the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76). (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Gary Prill/Released)

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 0P-086.jpg


The caption needs correcting. The USN officer is on the right and the IN officer on the left.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shyamd » 31 Oct 2008 22:06

Some random photo's from Flickr

Image

Image
Image
Image

2 Para's ?
Image
Image
Image
--------------------------
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Indian soldiers take positions at the scene of a gun battle in Jammu, India, Wednesday, Aug. 27, 2008.Islamic rebels believed to be holding seven hostages traded gunfire with police and soldiers in Indian Kashmir on Wednesday, leaving at least four people dead and raising fears the militants were looking to exploit unrest that has roiled the Himalayan region for two months.(AP Photo/Channi Anand)

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Image
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Jammu and Kashmir Special Operation Group (SOG) soldier take position during a gun battle with militants in Chinore, outskirts of the Northern Indian city of Jammu, the winter capital of Kashmir, on 27 August 2008. Suspected militants are hostage six people, including four children in a house while militants clashed with troops, killing three civilians and one soldier. Two militants were also killed the rebels slipped into India across the border from Pakistan on Tuesday, army officials said.
Image
----------------

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Aditya G » 31 Oct 2008 23:42

Does the JKP SOG still exist by the same name? I thought the same was disbanded when the present state govt came to power?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 03 Nov 2008 07:38

Naidu wrote:
Aditya G wrote:INDIAN OCEAN (Oct. 20, 2008) Cmdr. Darryl Walker, left, executive officer of the "Cougars" of Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron (VAQ) 139, speaks with Lt. Vikram Kottaju, an Indian Air Force Sea Harrier pilot, about flight deck operations aboard the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76). (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Gary Prill/Released)

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 0P-086.jpg


The caption needs correcting. The USN officer is on the right and the IN officer on the left.


This picture highlights a point that was thrashed out in the "Women in Combat" threads. Just look at the size difference that one can get between human and human. How do you design a cockpit that suits the chap on the right as well as a petite Indian woman - when you consider that the Indian on the left is surely taller than 90% of Indian women?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Sid » 03 Nov 2008 13:32

shiv wrote:This picture highlights a point that was thrashed out in the "Women in Combat" threads. Just look at the size difference that one can get between human and human. How do you design a cockpit that suits the chap on the right as well as a petite Indian woman - when you consider that the Indian on the left is surely taller than 90% of Indian women?


If i am not wrong, all cockpits have height adjustment facility in its cockpit seats (even our nimble Mig 21 has this facility).

Its obvious that you can't adjust height of all, hence you have maximum/minimum height limitations in all fighters.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 03 Nov 2008 16:49

Sid wrote:If i am not wrong, all cockpits have height adjustment facility in its cockpit seats (even our nimble Mig 21 has this facility).

Its obvious that you can't adjust height of all, hence you have maximum/minimum height limitations in all fighters.


Absolutely no doubt about this - but less easy to change are the horizontal distances of some switches and the circumference of the control column (and thereby the control of switches/buttons.wheels), and the acceleration ("kick") of the ejection seat which will accelerate with greater spine crushing rates with a smaller/lighter person.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Sid » 03 Nov 2008 18:30

shiv wrote:
Sid wrote:If i am not wrong, all cockpits have height adjustment facility in its cockpit seats (even our nimble Mig 21 has this facility).

Its obvious that you can't adjust height of all, hence you have maximum/minimum height limitations in all fighters.


Absolutely no doubt about this - but less easy to change are the horizontal distances of some switches and the circumference of the control column (and thereby the control of switches/buttons.wheels), and the acceleration ("kick") of the ejection seat which will accelerate with greater spine crushing rates with a smaller/lighter person.


AFAIK back injuries during ejections happen due to a) malfunction in canopy release b) wrong siting posture during ejection c) low altitude ejections (which is solved in zero-zero ejection seats). The G-Load during ejections can be sustained by a fit pilot (irrespective of his/her weight).

As for your observations on pilot height etc. please read following study which also takes into consideration equipments worn by pilot (specially Case Study D).

http://www.isam-india.org/journals/view ... &yearid=23

In the Indian Air Force (IAF), the MiG 21 T-77 is the only fighter aircraft that has a semi-closed ejection facility. When the ejection handle is pressed without jettisoning the canopy, the ‘R’ gun fires operating the restraint mechanism. Next, the main gun fires and the seat-man combination travels upwards on the guide rails. The rear part of the canopy (grip locks) gets engaged to trunnions on the seat and the canopy slides down over a curved metallic plate above the pilot’s head after which the front end of the canopy locks with the lower front part of the seat. This semi-closed capsule clears the tail of the aircraft and starts descending due to gravity. After a time-delay, the ‘F’ guns fire leading to separation of the canopy from the seat, followed by automatic deployment of the main parachute and seat-man separation for a safe touch down [1,2].

Budding fighter pilots in the IAF have been trained on this aircraft for many years now. Anthropometric compatibility with the cockpit, especially sitting height considerations have been a problem area for many young pilots. Every six months this has meant planning for cockpit and encapsulation trials for those with borderline Sitting Height (SH) and for some young trainees invariably, unfitness to fly the aircraft. Similarly, some MiG 21 pilots who were earlier trained on this aircraft were found unfit to fly the same after a gap of few years, possibly due to gain in weight contributing to an increase in SH. Investigation of a fatal aircraft accident about 14 years ago had revealed the criticality of limiting the maximum permissible SH to eject safely from this aircraft. The Russian manufacturers had recommended a maximum SH of 94.0 cm, but that was when the parachute-KP27 oxygen bottle assembly in the seat pan had a combined thickness of 225 mm. With the introduction of a 15 mm thick Personal Survival Pack (PSP), the total thickness of this assembly became 240 mm. The maximum permissible SH was accordingly reduced to 92.5 cm. This continues to be the upper limit

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2008 08:18

Sid wrote:AFAIK back injuries during ejections happen due to a) malfunction in canopy release b) wrong siting posture during ejection c) low altitude ejections (which is solved in zero-zero ejection seats). The G-Load during ejections can be sustained by a fit pilot (irrespective of his/her weight).


No matter how good the posture gets - it is the acceleration that does the damage to the spine and you cannot avoid acceleration in an ejection seat. The force is constant, and if the load is smaller the acceleration is higher. US seats are (now) being designed to safely eject people weighing in at weights ranging from the 5th to the 95th percentile of the US average. An average Indian woman weighs in at less than the 5th percentile of the US weight charts (check the charts) and an Indian woman in a US ejection seat will inevitably be subjected to a higher acceleration and will inevitably face an increased risk of spine injury no matter how good the posture is.

Even perfect ejections, from which pilots walk away have been shown to result in spinal microfractures. Some damage is inevitable because the spine is all spongy bone. IIRC a pilot in the IAF typically goes to hospital even after an eject from which he has walked away, and I think they are off flying for 6 months after such an event.

Also don't forget that pilot strength is part of ergonomics and the strength required is quoted in an Indian study here

Indian Journal of Aerospace Medicine
VOLUME 39
SPECIAL ISSUE 2, 1995
NO 1

ERGONOMIC FACTORS DURING SPIN RECOVERY IN HJT – 16 TRAINER
AIRCRAFT
WG CDR NN AGGARWAL, SQN LDR VV JOSHI
Spin manoeuvre familiarization is an essential part of flying training syllabus and requires
simultaneous two-handed operation in recovery of aircraft (ac). Amongst trainer ac in IAF, spin
recovery problems were perceived more HJT-16 (Kiran). An ergonomic laboratory study involving
10 experienced male fighter pilots in applicable flying clothing revealed that the overall forces
control column were within tolerance limits of single hand operations, the second hand guidance
was required for better precision. The ‘reach envelope studied’ in harness tight condition for
maximum forward operation of control column with permissible shoulder movements and without
shoulder movements showed mean angular motion difference at the control column 4.320 0±1.26 0

.
The mean difference between the forward movement of hands in two study protocols involving one hand and simultaneous two-hand operation was 1.81 0± 0.86 0

. The observed differences are statistically significant (p<0.001) influencing reach compromises under static and dynamic flying conditions of spin under and geometrical variations in elbow-wrist and shoulder-arm complex of individual crew and in woman pilots who generally have shorter limb parameters compared to their male counterparts.

The paper discusses various spin related ergonomic problems considering anthropometric and cockpit design factors.
---

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby neerajb » 04 Nov 2008 09:32

Shivji it's not a matter of what's the general height or weight of Indian woman is, but a range for both these attributes can be defined for female pilots. If you fit in you are welcomed, just like the male counterparts.

Cheers...

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2008 14:15

neerajbhandari wrote:Shivji it's not a matter of what's the general height or weight of Indian woman is, but a range for both these attributes can be defined for female pilots. If you fit in you are welcomed, just like the male counterparts.

Cheers...


Correct - but I guess you do understand clearly what follows obviously and inevitably from your statement "if you fit in".

The number of Indian women who qualify because "they fit in" will be seriously small for a cockpit designed for the 5th to 95th percentile of American men. You know why don't you?

That is all that I am trying to say.

When you design a cockpit that is suitable for most men, it automatically means that a much smaller percentage of women will "fit in". There is automatic and unavoidable bias ("discrimination" if you like) and there is very little anyone can do about it though the Americans are trying harder than anyone else to do something about it.

Check this
http://gnat50years.in/personal-anecdote ... l#more-201
...one of our O’s i/c Flying in Bareilly went solo. He was a somewhat rotund individual and well endowed. When he insisted on flying the Gnat all the aircrew ran around trying to find a shoehorn large enough to use so that we could squeeze him into the cockpit. We all thought that with his paunch coming in the way of the stick movement backwards we should be seeing a very steep take off indeed. What we had not catered for was that the weight ahead of the C of G would neutralize to some extent the lack of control input possible. The take off went off quite smoothly to our combined surprise. But what you have to grant the old geezer is very aptly signified by this quote,” your height, leg length and bulk have nothing to do with your being able to get into the Gnat, your wanting to fly her does”. There were also those tall guys who crawled into the cockpit like prawns but still could not resist flying this little fighter. Six-footers like Pondy Jaykumar, Mervin Pinto and even Pete Wilson flew the aircraft despite the risk of leaving their legs behind if ejection was necessary. The radio set was so situated that during a few ejections by smaller pilots too they left their left flying boot behind


Will drop the subject now because it is OT.


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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Nayak » 08 Nov 2008 14:14

They definitely look TFTA and well-fed. The IA is doing a good job. 8) 8) 8)

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartik » 08 Nov 2008 15:14



in the last pic, you can see one of them is wearing a camo shirt with a Reebok sign on it..how on earth is the IA allowing such ridiculous things to go un-noticed ??

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby sum » 08 Nov 2008 17:25

Are the khaki camo sporting soldiers the Israeli army folks?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby sunilUpa » 08 Nov 2008 19:20

Kartik wrote:


in the last pic, you can see one of them is wearing a camo shirt with a Reebok sign on it..how on earth is the IA allowing such ridiculous things to go un-noticed ??

That dude is IA?...too TFTA to be IA... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Edit--hmmm may be he is IA..

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby p_saggu » 08 Nov 2008 21:41

Does anyone have the link to that picture of Sikh soldiers in Lebanon as part of UN peacekeeping force where they had displayed their motto "Singh Is King" on the checkpost.
I beleive this picture received wide circulation in newspapers back home in India and one thing lead to another and today this year's biggest masala film hit is the "Singh Is King"

Please post that pic if someone has it.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Avinash R » 08 Nov 2008 22:25

^

Image

This is the link if you want to post
http://i36.tinypic.com/96w9oz.jpg

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Victor » 08 Nov 2008 22:37

sunilUpa wrote:
That dude is IA?...too TFTA to be IA... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Edit--hmmm may be he is IA..

In the first pic he is carrying an INSAS.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Nov 2008 23:51

Kartik wrote:


in the last pic, you can see one of them is wearing a camo shirt with a Reebok sign on it..how on earth is the IA allowing such ridiculous things to go un-noticed ??


maybe i'm going blind but i don't see it. anyway, there are only 3 Indian soliders in the picture, one is either Italian or Hungarian and one looks like he has German camo pants on. the dude in the middle is Israeli

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Rahul M » 08 Nov 2008 23:56

I couldn't see any reebok sign either.

kartik, are you the same kartik on AFM ?
if yes please email me.
thanks.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby anishns » 09 Nov 2008 01:18

Check the yellow circle on the 2nd standing soldier, from left...
Doesn't look Indian to me though.... 8)

ImageImage

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Victor » 09 Nov 2008 07:38

This discussion about who "looks Indian" is getting tiring. Does an Indian need to have a turban or be short and dark to be considered an Indian? Would you call a Naga Regiment soldier "Indian looking" enough? Sheesh! :(

Check out the guy's belt and fatigue pants and compare it to the Sikh next to him. Then look at the first picture and check out the gun he is carrying.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby anishns » 09 Nov 2008 08:31

Victor,

It's not a question of whether he looks Indian or not...If he is, good for him! :lol:
I only posted the picture in response to Kartik's post about the Indian army allowing ridiculous things for a jawan to sport a Reebok branded camo shirt!

Kartik wrote:in the last pic, you can see one of them is wearing a camo shirt with a Reebok sign on it..how on earth is the IA allowing such ridiculous things to go un-noticed ??


Wouldn't the UN corps allot clothing to the soldiers?

Victor wrote:This discussion about who "looks Indian" is getting tiring. Does an Indian need to have a turban or be short and dark to be considered an Indian? Would you call a Naga Regiment soldier "Indian looking" enough? Sheesh! :(

Check out the guy's belt and fatigue pants and compare it to the Sikh next to him. Then look at the first picture and check out the gun he is carrying.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby malushahi » 09 Nov 2008 10:40

anishns wrote:Wouldn't the UN corps allot clothing to the soldiers?

Guess this camo-reebok-tshirt could be a case of "discretionary" spending. Troop contributing countries are reimbursed for the usage of personal clothing, gear and equipment, including personal weaponry @ $68/month (meaning the UN does not "allot" clothing or weapons).

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/faq/q10.htm

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartik » 09 Nov 2008 11:34

here's the portion of the pic, enlarged

image link

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartik » 09 Nov 2008 11:38

malushahi wrote:
anishns wrote:Wouldn't the UN corps allot clothing to the soldiers?

Guess this camo-reebok-tshirt could be a case of "discretionary" spending. Troop contributing countries are reimbursed for the usage of personal clothing, gear and equipment, including personal weaponry @ $68/month (meaning the UN does not "allot" clothing or weapons).

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/faq/q10.htm


so what if they are given money to buy clothing ? they're professionals, and wearing Reebok branded shirts when on duty, representing the IA is ridiculous. To date I've never seen a single other soldier wearing Nike, Reebok or Adidas sportswear as part of his uniform.

Rahul, is there even a Kartik on AFM?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2008 11:44

check PM please.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby malushahi » 09 Nov 2008 11:47

Kartik wrote:so what if they are given money to buy clothing ? they're professionals, and wearing Reebok branded shirts when on duty, representing the IA is ridiculous.

and what made you think I think otherwise?

Kartik wrote:To date I've never seen a single other soldier wearing Nike, Reebok or Adidas sportswear as part of his uniform.

i'll let that slide for now.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2008 11:51

kartik I've seen vids of russian army soldiers wearing nike woolen caps.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartik » 09 Nov 2008 12:19

thats very unfortunate. Really, to wear a commercial brand's logo as part of your uniform, if you're part of the armed forces, is not professional.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby ASPuar » 09 Nov 2008 14:04

I dont know what the fuss is all about. The three in the picture are obviously italians, if the arm flashes are observed carefully.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Lalmohan » 10 Nov 2008 19:52

are you absolutely sure that its reebok? could be some other type of unit/qual badge
btw - you'll see lots of british troops in the iraqi desert wearing oakley branded large goggles - i think its official kit (could be wrong)

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Himanshu » 10 Nov 2008 21:13

Are you sure it's a Reebok logo.. ?? I have doubts..

http://images.google.co.in/images?&um=1 ... =0&ndsp=18


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