China Military Watch

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jul 2008 22:51

out of 20 batteries, if they keep 10 in their original deployment but move 10 into Tibet,
5 for ladakh and 5 for the east, still puts around 150-200 missiles in each zone.

we definitely better have some hard and soft countermeasures against the S300 system.

flying high and fast isnt going to be a problem for the big missiles of this system.

I am thinking how about dozens of drones rigged up to mimic the RCS of IAF planes
and launching decoy strike packages with these drones to make them expend SAMs.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 04 Jul 2008 23:08

RayC wrote:
Could you let us know where are bunkers on the border evacuated in Sikkim?

Chungthang valley is a major army base north of Sikkim. I don't remember the details (its been a while now) but China border is separated by a mountain ridge there. On that ridge army positions are vacated during winter time.

I don't know how they can live there in extreme weather but now India army is doing the same thing (by holding its positions during winter) in Kargil too.

But (I think) PLA movement there is not at all threatening (right now). They always come and go, and they have been doing this for quite sometime now.

The million dollar question is, why cry now?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Jul 2008 23:14

Sid wrote: The million dollar question is, why cry now?

to gather support for the eventual build up ? and to prevent the karats from painting India as the aggressor ?
it does look like the MMS govt has had a policy change wrt the chinese. may be this is all part of the preparation.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 05 Jul 2008 10:07

Singha wrote: I am thinking how about dozens of drones rigged up to mimic the RCS of IAF planes
and launching decoy strike packages with these drones to make them expend SAMs.

Can radar units not determine the size of the detected objects?

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 05 Jul 2008 10:20

RayC wrote:skganji

There is a mismatch in the govt's approach and the IA's approach.

Be rest assured that you are safe and snug!

Yes I do feel very safe now.

On a separate note, even if Indian army were intruding into Tibet, will they come on BRF and advertise that?

(I am not saying Indian army is doing it.)

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 05 Jul 2008 20:57

Old news now...
This is the vehicle from which the chinese Anti sat rocket was developed. Height ~ 12m Dia ~ 1.5m

They are also developing an air launched anti sat missile,

in addition to Space based missiles and Ground based lasers (Primarily to blind satellites)

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 06 Jul 2008 21:22

DF-25 missiles

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1412 ... rt1sl0.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9347 ... rt3wr7.jpg

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 06 Jul 2008 21:23

PLZ-45 155mm 52cal SP Artillery

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/3918/p ... 388kp1.jpg[/img]

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 06 Jul 2008 21:27

I find this funny about Chinese SWAT Commandos

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 07 Jul 2008 06:52

^^^ This clearly shows that the Chinese police preparations are more about bluster and show than any real capability. I would trust a lowly Indian Hawaldar with his lati that these segway driving commandos!

These Chinese police wouldnt last 5 mins if they were put in an environment like Kashmir or Palestine or Iraq. The seem more like something out of Robocop with all their trappings.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 07 Jul 2008 07:29

Sid wrote:
RayC wrote:
Could you let us know where are bunkers on the border evacuated in Sikkim?
Chungthang valley is a major army base north of Sikkim. I don't remember the details (its been a while now) but China border is separated by a mountain ridge there. On that ridge army positions are vacated during winter time.

I don't know how they can live there in extreme weather but now India army is doing the same thing (by holding its positions during winter) in Kargil too.

But (I think) PLA movement there is not at all threatening (right now). They always come and go, and they have been doing this for quite sometime now.

The million dollar question is, why cry now?

I will just leave it at saying that I have served in both North Sikkim and twice in Kargil (both times in operations!)

Logic states that you cannot vacate, especially after 1962.

In Kargil, they used to vacate certain posts and see what happened!

The IA can live in such extreme weather since there is something called the Indian stoic!

sevoke · Post by **sevoke** » 07 Jul 2008 11:39

Brando wrote:^^^ This clearly shows that the Chinese police preparations are more about bluster and show than any real capability. I would trust a lowly Indian Hawaldar with his lati that these segway driving commandos!
These Chinese police wouldnt last 5 mins if they were put in an environment like Kashmir or Palestine or Iraq. The seem more like something out of Robocop with all their trappings.

yeah, looks like a scene from a stephen chow movie...i can see "ling ling shat" in one of the pics. LOL.

rajrang · Post by **rajrang** » 14 Jul 2008 01:00

More Sukhois in the NE

http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/14/stories ... 571300.htm

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 14 Jul 2008 21:31

New Facility Offers Carrier Building Capability
http://www.sinodefence.com/research/new ... pic-02.jpg
http://www.sinodefence.com/research/new ... pic-01.jpg

seems like china is setting up facilities for serial production of a.c.cs
http://www.sinodefence.com/research/new ... efault.asp

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 15 Jul 2008 12:00

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 233667.cms

Another Virtual Snub from the chinese,they invited Sonia gandhi Instead of PM for Olympics

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 15 Jul 2008 18:51

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 151655.htm

IAF upgrades bases in east to match China's infrastructure

Chabua (Assam) (PTI): Worried at the increase in Chinese airfields along the border, the Centre is upgrading its infrastructure and fleet strength at all air force stations under the Eastern Air Command.

"AFS Chabua is surrounded by 14 airfields on the Chinese side. Not all of them are now being used, but they can be made operational within a week," Commanding Officer of the Chabua airbase, Group Captain M S Venkateswara told a group of visiting newspersons here.

Pointing out that the border with China was 170 km north and that with Myanmar 80 km south of Chabua airbase, he said, "This calls for an increase in air defence mechanism."

Though the situation at present was not alarming, there was a threat perception from the Chinese side as the position of their airfields make a multi-directional approach possible during operations, he said, adding that China could also use Myanmarese air space against India given the good relations between the two countries.

In view of the threat perception, air force bases at Dibrugarh, Mohanbari, Jorhat, Guwahati, Tezpur, Hasimara and Bagdogra were being upgraded.

According to Venkateswara, the Chinese have SU-27s, SU-30s, J-8s and J-10s deployed at these airbases. While they were not likely to deploy GF-17s, but the possibility exists.

Chabua, which now has two squadrons of MiG-27s, will get Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and Multi-Modal Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) as part of the upgrade programme.

The Operations Conversion Unit (OCU) of AFS Chabua was conducting round-the-clock sorties to maintain vigil on the airspace, he said.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 15 Jul 2008 21:10

xpost.

IAF upgrades bases in east to counter China
http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20080715/80 ... ounte.html

Tue, Jul 15 07:39 PM

Worried at the increase in Chinese airfields along the border, the Centre is upgrading its infrastructure and fleet strength at all Air Force stations under the Eastern Air Command.

Air force sources, requesting anonymity, said assets from the Western Sector were being moved towards the Eastern Sector in view of the 'threat' from China.

In keeping with the upgrade plans, AFS Dinjan, an Air Defence Data Control Centre (ADDC), will have a Commercial Off-the-Shelf (COTS) Air Data Handling System within the next month, replacing the Star Sapphire Radar now being used.

"Our basic objectives are to identify enemy aircraft, do a threat evaluation of the assets and destroy them with the help of interceptors and air defence artillery. With COTS data handling, we can do the identification and threat evaluation automatically," Squadron Leader R Mukherjee, an officer with the 511 Signal Unit at Dinjan, said.

Briefing journalists, who are on a tour of the air force facilities, Mukherjee, a flight controller in the ADDC, explained that after identifying an enemy asset and evaluating its threat, the ADDC issues 'scramble' orders to fighter aircraft for its destruction.

"After receiving the orders, our men take about three minutes to get airborne and scramble after the enemy aircraft," he said.

Stating that Dinjan would be the second ADDC in the country to get a COTS radar after Lucknow, he said this would go a long way in better monitoring aircraft movement along the 1,600-km border with China and Myanmar.

While the Western Sector witnesses one scramble operation after approximately every 10 days, its number has come down recently, air force sources said, adding that there was a possibility of the Eastern Sector witnessing such operations in future.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jul 2008 22:26

what kind of radar do the other ADCC nodes use ? more powerful mil-grade ones ?
COTS was cheaper and quicker to obtain at cost of being less capable ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jul 2008 22:30

isnt that a thermal imager atop the PLZ45 on the flatbed truck? wonder why a SP gun needs a
thermal? perhaps the idea is for self-defence when deployed in the field and would unleash
direct fire if anyone found creeping around in the night?

we had it in our hands (Bhim) a platform at par with the best out there and let it slip
out

Nmistry · Post by **Nmistry** » 17 Jul 2008 12:59

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hticbm ... 80713.aspx

Carrier Killer Warhead
July 13, 2008: Rumors continue to come out of China that the DF-21 ballistic missile is being equipped with a high-explosive warhead and a guidance system that can find and hit a aircraft carrier at sea. The DF-21 has a range of 1800 kilometers and normally hauls a 300 kiloton nuclear warhead. It's a two stage, 15 ton, solid fuel rocket that could carry a half ton penetrating, high-explosive warhead, along with the special guidance system (a radar and image recognition system).

As the story goes, the Chinese have reverse engineered, reinvented or stolen the 1970s technology that went into the U.S. Pershing ballistic missile. This 7.5 ton U.S. Army missile also had an 1,800 kilometers range, and could put its nuclear warhead within 30 meters of its aim point. This was possible because the guidance system had its own radar. This kind of accuracy made the Russians very uncomfortable, as it made their command bunkers vulnerable. The Russians eventually agreed to a lot of nuclear and missile disarmament deals in order to get the Pershings decommissioned in the 1980s.

The Chinese have long been rumored to have a system like this, but there have been no tests. If the Chinese do succeed in creating a "carrier killer" version of the DF-21, the U.S. Navy can modify its Aegis anti-missile system to protect carriers against such attacks. There are also electronic warfare options, to blind the DF-21 radar. Another problem the Chinese will have is getting a general idea of where the target carrier is before they launch the DF-21. This is not impossible, but can be difficult.

rajrang · Post by **rajrang** » 19 Jul 2008 08:00

Nmistry wrote:http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hticbm ... 80713.aspx

Carrier Killer Warhead

As the story goes, the Chinese have reverse engineered, reinvented or stolen the 1970s technology that went into the U.S. Pershing ballistic missile.

I would think that stolen would be the best description.

rajrang · Post by **rajrang** » 24 Jul 2008 07:23

Chinese incursions

http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/24/stories ... 031100.htm

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 27 Jul 2008 04:50

Possible PLAN Carrier concepts
http://i33.tinypic.com/2hnpbbc.jpg

Carrier borne aircrafts
J-10C
1
http://i34.tinypic.com/1hcqdu.jpg
2
http://i33.tinypic.com/kc16wm.jpg

Don't understand this carrier concept

http://i37.tinypic.com/1917dj.jpg

Two more J-10C 3D models.
1
http://i38.tinypic.com/11l4d5f.jpg
2
http://i36.tinypic.com/21lq5hl.jpg

For the nth time, don't post large pics inline. At least learn how to create a thumbnail. the tutorial is at the start of the misc. pic thread.

Anyway, I don't see why we should be treated to a plethora of chinese fan art.
Rahul.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2008 05:13

soutikghosh wrote:........Don't understand this carrier concept

http://i37.tinypic.com/1917dj.jpg

that's because they are unrealistic and done by arm chair fans.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Aug 2008 18:37

AWST Juky 21st issue has a special feature on Chinese modernisation,where it is alleged by US intel sources that China has almost achieved full indigenous capability in various fields of arms/weapon systems/technology.It now no longer needs to depend upon Russian technology,having emulated it and even improved upon some copies of Russian weaponry.Our MMRCA acquisition should take into account these developments as pak is definitely going to be a recipient of some of these systems and aircraft.

Some excerpts:

*Chinese J-11B fighter copy of SU-27 Flanker,with local radar,engines and missiles,"highly-capable" air-superiority fighter.PL-12 radar guided missiles better "kinematic performance" than Russian R-77,copied from.Range 50nm.Future versions 100nm.

*J-12 5th-gen fighter lot too far behind Russian Pak-FA in timeframe of development.Sophisticated countermeasures such as DRFM (digital radio frequency memory) "intended to analyse threat system emitters,introduce false target information,and then reproduce with fidelity an apparent radar return sent back to the original source",being developed for the J-10 and J-12.

*New battlefield doctrine called " non-contact warfare",attempting to avoid ground warfare while focusing on joint service air strikes,electronic warfare,satellite ops,broad-based IW,booth Chinese and intel sources say.IW to include GPS jamming and computer attack.Offensive attacks across as many freequencies and as wide a spectrum as possible,so that the sheer number of attacks will overwhelm,saturate and degrade defences,limiting th eenmy's ability to wage war/offensive ops.

*Strike element of its forces are being geared to mount offensive ops against Taiwan "if neccessary'.Shutting down Taiwan economically and militarily through broad-spectrum warfare and preventing US military intervention through threats of missile,space and cyber-warfare attack.Anderson AFB at Guam a prome target,attacking AWACS/tankers,degrade the base "layer by layer".

*"Counter-access" warfare through attacking US carrier forces through salvoes of ballistic and cruise missiles.Keen interest in "el-op" terminal guided ballistic missiles ,with possible access to Russian technology (Our own Dhanush has considerable potential too,though its range must be at least 500km).Just firing salvoes of both would head off US carriers,"without even hitting them."the Chinese feel that carrier forces can be deterred through these massed attacks and are therefore employing a strategy of building up very quickly several classes of conventional and nuclear subs.They have watched US tactics in Iraq and Afghanistan,which have heavily releid upon carrier air support.

*China's F-12 stealth 5th-gen fighter uses F-22 shaping,stealth composites and plasma technology (Russian?) to reduce detction.Plasma technology involves an ion cloud to absorb radar HF signals and reduce Latest US aircraft have DRFM capability through AESAadars,but have never fqaced a foe with similar countermeasures.

*China is also working at directed energy weapons like HP microwaves,lasers and methods of jamming GPS and sats.

*Very good success at SAMs.The HQ-9 is more of an SA-20 (SA-300 PMU-2) than an SA-10 (S-300),with a 108nm range and 98,000ft. alt.,with further develkopment into an SA-21/S-400 250nm capability."China wants a local air defence system that can extend beyond the first island chain that includes Taiwan".TBMs,cruise missiles,PGMs and UAVs are under development.

*China;''s inventory includes 1,000 CSS 6/7 SRBMs,upto 250 DH-10 Tomahawk class ground launched cruise missiles,YJ-63 bomber launched cruise missiles,and an air-launched version of the DH-10 under development.Each H-6 badger bomber can carry upto 6 YJ-63/ DH-10 missiles."The Badger is being used like the B-52,with increased range of cruise missiles from 140 to 900nm"!

*In addition,various countermeasures are being developed,UCAVs like Global Hawk and Predator and an AWACS,KJ-200 which mounted on an IL-76 has a "Phalcon class" AESA radar according to an analyst.

With these huge Chinese weapon system developments,it will be not too long before Pak also gets its hands upon some of these weapon sysytems,posing a further challenge to India's security.

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 01 Aug 2008 18:51

Philip wrote:AWST Juky 21st issue has a special feature on Chinese modernisation,where it is alleged by US intel sources that China has almost achieved full indigenous capability in various fields of arms/weapon systems/technology.It now no longer needs to depend upon Russian technology,having emulated it and even improved upon some copies of Russian weaponry.Our MMRCA acquisition should take into account these developments as pak is definitely going to be a recipient of some of these systems and aircraft.

Some excerpts:

*Chinese J-11B fighter copy of SU-27 Flanker,with local radar,engines and missiles,"highly-capable" air-superiority fighter.PL-12 radar guided missiles better "kinematic performance" than Russian R-77,copied from.Range 50nm.Future versions 100nm.

*J-12 5th-gen fighter lot too far behind Russian Pak-FA in timeframe of development.Sophisticated countermeasures such as DRFM (digital radio frequency memory) "intended to analyse threat system emitters,introduce false target information,and then reproduce with fidelity an apparent radar return sent back to the original source",being developed for the J-10 and J-12.

*New battlefield doctrine called " non-contact warfare",attempting to avoid ground warfare while focusing on joint service air strikes,electronic warfare,satellite ops,broad-based IW,booth Chinese and intel sources say.IW to include GPS jamming and computer attack.Offensive attacks across as many freequencies and as wide a spectrum as possible,so that the sheer number of attacks will overwhelm,saturate and degrade defences,limiting th eenmy's ability to wage war/offensive ops.

*Strike element of its forces are being geared to mount offensive ops against Taiwan "if neccessary'.Shutting down Taiwan economically and militarily through broad-spectrum warfare and preventing US military intervention through threats of missile,space and cyber-warfare attack.Anderson AFB at Guam a prome target,attacking AWACS/tankers,degrade the base "layer by layer".

*"Counter-access" warfare through attacking US carrier forces through salvoes of ballistic and cruise missiles.Keen interest in "el-op" terminal guided ballistic missiles ,with possible access to Russian technology (Our own Dhanush has considerable potential too,though its range must be at least 500km).Just firing salvoes of both would head off US carriers,"without even hitting them."the Chinese feel that carrier forces can be deterred through these massed attacks and are therefore employing a strategy of building up very quickly several classes of conventional and nuclear subs.They have watched US tactics in Iraq and Afghanistan,which have heavily releid upon carrier air support.

*China's F-12 stealth 5th-gen fighter uses F-22 shaping,stealth composites and plasma technology (Russian?) to reduce detction.Plasma technology involves an ion cloud to absorb radar HF signals and reduce Latest US aircraft have DRFM capability through AESAadars,but have never fqaced a foe with similar countermeasures.

*China is also working at directed energy weapons like HP microwaves,lasers and methods of jamming GPS and sats.

*Very good success at SAMs.The HQ-9 is more of an SA-20 (SA-300 PMU-2) than an SA-10 (S-300),with a 108nm range and 98,000ft. alt.,with further develkopment into an SA-21/S-400 250nm capability."China wants a local air defence system that can extend beyond the first island chain that includes Taiwan".TBMs,cruise missiles,PGMs and UAVs are under development.

*China;''s inventory includes 1,000 CSS 6/7 SRBMs,upto 250 DH-10 Tomahawk class ground launched cruise missiles,YJ-63 bomber launched cruise missiles,and an air-launched version of the DH-10 under development.Each H-6 badger bomber can carry upto 6 YJ-63/ DH-10 missiles."The Badger is being used like the B-52,with increased range of cruise missiles from 140 to 900nm"!

*In addition,various countermeasures are being developed,UCAVs like Global Hawk and Predator and an AWACS,KJ-200 which mounted on an IL-76 has a "Phalcon class" AESA radar according to an analyst.

With these huge Chinese weapon system developments,it will be not too long before Pak also gets its hands upon some of these weapon sysytems,posing a further challenge to India's security.

Thats one hell of a scary Scenario u

.

The thing is how far are we behind them. in all those technologies and Tacticts. I'm really hoping those Joint Excersises that we do with various countrie count to anything when facing the Chinese in a showdown

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 01 Aug 2008 19:36

Singha wrote:I am thinking how about dozens of drones rigged up to mimic the RCS of IAF planes and launching decoy strike packages with these drones to make them expend SAMs.

Very good idea indeed. I think it could be used for decoying air to air missiles (BVR) as well in addittion to overcoming the ground defences. Something on the lines of ADM-20 Quail but lighter and smaller that could be carried in large numbers by MKI. One MKI can be embedded in the strike package dedicated for jamming and carrying decoys (enhanced version of Growler).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-20_Quail

Cheers....

Don · Post by **Don** » 02 Aug 2008 02:41

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financia ... 9J64O0.htm

China defense could be $360 billion a year by 2020

By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN

BEIJING

China's defense spending is on track to reach $360 billion a year by 2020 if annual increases continue at their current pace, an analyst with defense consultancy Jane's said Friday.

That figure is still dwarfed by U.S. military spending, which amounted to $547 billion last year, but would represent a significant increase over Beijing's current official budget of about $59 billion.

China's publicly announced spending is roughly on a level with total military expenditure by Britain last year, and slightly higher than that of France. Some analysts believe total spending may actually be significantly higher because the official budget doesn't include funding for weapons programs.

On average, China's military spending has jumped by 15.5 percent each year over of the past 14 years, powering China's arms industry and making the country less dependent on Russian imports, Matthew Smith said in a telephone interview.

"Our forecast shows no decline in spending," Smith said. China's goal, he said, is to "reinvent" the People's Liberation Army by 2020.

China's officially declared defense spending jumped 17.6 percent, the 18th double-digit percentage increase in 19 years. The spending has drawn calls from Washington and Tokyo for Beijing to explain the reasons for the buildup and how it was spending the money.

China claims its intentions are not aggressive, and that increases were needed to pay for higher oil prices and boost salaries of the 2.3 million-member army.

China bought almost $3.5 billion in weaponry from Russia in 2006, but that figure fell by 62 percent last year, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, a leading monitor of the global arms trade.

Smith said that came as a result of Chinese advances in arms production and Russia's reluctance to part with its most cutting-edge technology.

U.S. and European companies meanwhile have lagged behind in military exports to China because of legal restrictions at home and an American policy aimed at deterring the sales, Smith said. Washington has banned the trade of weaponry and technology with military applications since the bloody crackdown on pro-democracy protesters in Beijing's Tiananmen Square in 1989.

As China's arms industry grows, the country will likely step up exports as a low-cost alternative to Russian or Western weapons suppliers, Smith said.

Especially in Africa, Chinese arms sales often serve to cement links with countries that have large oil and gas stocks that Beijing has aggressively sought to fuel its sizzling economy, he said.

Don · Post by **Don** » 02 Aug 2008 02:42

Philip wrote:AWST Juky 21st issue has a special feature on Chinese modernisation,where it is alleged by US intel sources that China has almost achieved full indigenous capability in various fields of arms/weapon systems/technology.It now no longer needs to depend upon Russian technology,having emulated it and even improved upon some copies of Russian weaponry.Our MMRCA acquisition should take into account these developments as pak is definitely going to be a recipient of some of these systems and aircraft.

Some excerpts:

*Chinese J-11B fighter copy of SU-27 Flanker,with local radar,engines and missiles,"highly-capable" air-superiority fighter.PL-12 radar guided missiles better "kinematic performance" than Russian R-77,copied from.Range 50nm.Future versions 100nm.

*J-12 5th-gen fighter lot too far behind Russian Pak-FA in timeframe of development.Sophisticated countermeasures such as DRFM (digital radio frequency memory) "intended to analyse threat system emitters,introduce false target information,and then reproduce with fidelity an apparent radar return sent back to the original source",being developed for the J-10 and J-12.

*New battlefield doctrine called " non-contact warfare",attempting to avoid ground warfare while focusing on joint service air strikes,electronic warfare,satellite ops,broad-based IW,booth Chinese and intel sources say.IW to include GPS jamming and computer attack.Offensive attacks across as many freequencies and as wide a spectrum as possible,so that the sheer number of attacks will overwhelm,saturate and degrade defences,limiting th eenmy's ability to wage war/offensive ops.

*Strike element of its forces are being geared to mount offensive ops against Taiwan "if neccessary'.Shutting down Taiwan economically and militarily through broad-spectrum warfare and preventing US military intervention through threats of missile,space and cyber-warfare attack.Anderson AFB at Guam a prome target,attacking AWACS/tankers,degrade the base "layer by layer".

*"Counter-access" warfare through attacking US carrier forces through salvoes of ballistic and cruise missiles.Keen interest in "el-op" terminal guided ballistic missiles ,with possible access to Russian technology (Our own Dhanush has considerable potential too,though its range must be at least 500km).Just firing salvoes of both would head off US carriers,"without even hitting them."the Chinese feel that carrier forces can be deterred through these massed attacks and are therefore employing a strategy of building up very quickly several classes of conventional and nuclear subs.They have watched US tactics in Iraq and Afghanistan,which have heavily releid upon carrier air support.

*China's F-12 stealth 5th-gen fighter uses F-22 shaping,stealth composites and plasma technology (Russian?) to reduce detction.Plasma technology involves an ion cloud to absorb radar HF signals and reduce Latest US aircraft have DRFM capability through AESAadars,but have never fqaced a foe with similar countermeasures.

*China is also working at directed energy weapons like HP microwaves,lasers and methods of jamming GPS and sats.

*Very good success at SAMs.The HQ-9 is more of an SA-20 (SA-300 PMU-2) than an SA-10 (S-300),with a 108nm range and 98,000ft. alt.,with further develkopment into an SA-21/S-400 250nm capability."China wants a local air defence system that can extend beyond the first island chain that includes Taiwan".TBMs,cruise missiles,PGMs and UAVs are under development.

*China;''s inventory includes 1,000 CSS 6/7 SRBMs,upto 250 DH-10 Tomahawk class ground launched cruise missiles,YJ-63 bomber launched cruise missiles,and an air-launched version of the DH-10 under development.Each H-6 badger bomber can carry upto 6 YJ-63/ DH-10 missiles."The Badger is being used like the B-52,with increased range of cruise missiles from 140 to 900nm"!

*In addition,various countermeasures are being developed,UCAVs like Global Hawk and Predator and an AWACS,KJ-200 which mounted on an IL-76 has a "Phalcon class" AESA radar according to an analyst.

With these huge Chinese weapon system developments,it will be not too long before Pak also gets its hands upon some of these weapon sysytems,posing a further challenge to India's security.

I guess there is no link to the story.

SShah · Post by **SShah** » 02 Aug 2008 06:07

Strike element of its forces are being geared to mount offensive ops against Taiwan "if neccessary'.Shutting down Taiwan economically and militarily through broad-spectrum warfare and preventing US military intervention through threats of missile,space and cyber-warfare attack.Anderson AFB at Guam a prome target,attacking AWACS/tankers,degrade the base "layer by layer".

I find this extremely funny... attacking Anderson AFB is not only optimistic but I call it a sheer lack of knowledge on the part of whoever came up with this Idea.

Not to mention current state of US' "unknown" (under skunk work) conventional and unconventional technological abilities, by the time China can even come close to achieving the actual capacity, US would've been far ahead. We all know when the technologies such as Internet, Stealth etc were developed and when we first knew what actually it meant.
Technological gap between US and rest will always be there during next few decades but will start to narrowing considerably in next 50 years (especially with lizard in the picture).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2008 13:56

US does a good job of fear-mongering about rivals to keep the defmil complex well
fed and equipped with rolling gold plated programs.

a few dozen ballistic missiles lobbed in the general direction of carrier will make USN
turn tail and run off with tail between its legs? bwahaha

what do you think
they are developing SM-3 and SM-6 for ?

and they will reply with J-series strikes on chinese power plants to shut PRC down
in one swoop not "layer by layer"

SShah · Post by **SShah** » 03 Aug 2008 07:04

Singha wrote:US does a good job of fear-mongering about rivals to keep the defmil complex well
fed and equipped with rolling gold plated programs.

a few dozen ballistic missiles lobbed in the general direction of carrier will make USN
turn tail and run off with tail between its legs? bwahaha what do you think
they are developing SM-3 and SM-6 for ?

and they will reply with J-series strikes on chinese power plants to shut PRC down
in one swoop not "layer by layer"

I can say about these "Gold Plated" programs cuz Ive been working for one of the major defense contractors.
thank you!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2008 07:11

China has almost achieved full indigenous capability in various fields of arms/weapon systems/technology.It now no longer needs to depend upon Russian technology,having emulated it and even improved upon some copies of Russian weaponry

Just because it looks like a Russian system doesn't mean it performs like one.
All that breathless Han penile tumescence over stealth missiles and the like and China still has to buy jet engines from Russia because its own engines are junk?
Does any other nation that builds SSNs and SSBNs import diesel electric subs from Russia?

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Aug 2008 07:34

^^ Gerrad bhai I am afraid that line of argument is very weak , for then using same logic people would doubt India's indeginous capabilities when reading news on operational preparedness of the MKI's given our inability to manufacture its tyres.

.

Even if many of the weapon systems fielded by China might not be on par with their RU counterparts , they make up for that by fielding them in large numbers and then make incremental improvements to them with valuable feedback from the services , this along with swift procurement decisions to source equipment from OEM's in a hush hush manner saves them time and money.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2008 07:44

our inability to manufacture its tyres

Inability or simply following the terms of the contract?

Large numbers of junk weapons are.. large numbers of junk weapons. Useless against a superpower. The Chinese fanboys are dreaming of taking on the USA with super-duper stealth laser weapons when they can't even take on Russia or Japan conventionally.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Aug 2008 08:18

Gerard wrote:
our inability to manufacture its tyres
Inability or simply following the terms of the contract?

Sir ji.. are you serious about that statement ? we are talking about a TOT of a multi million dollar aircraft several of whose avionics have been replaced by the indeginous modules, so
above argument does not hold its ground.

Large numbers of junk weapons are.. large numbers of junk weapons. Useless against a superpower. The Chinese fanboys are dreaming of taking on the USA with super-duper stealth laser weapons when they can't even take on Russia or Japan conventionally.

Fanboys are there everywhere on the the internet forums so much so that even BRf is not an exception (we too talk about making ICBMs reaching unkil land.. so what ?). Just because PRC is an adversary we seem to be living under a denial about their Military arsenal . They are actually in process of inducting new 4th Gen fighters , SSBN's , MBT's . Their ability to reverse engg. will be a key asset during a war when one might not have a foreign player to look up to are we then going to ask for a time out for the want of TYRES ?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 04 Aug 2008 10:43

16 police killed in China border attack

BBC

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Aug 2008 12:15

Don,the issue (July 21st) is two weeks old and is off the site.I dug it out of the print copy.Chinese rate of production of missiles is worrying,as they've also established plants for Pak for the same.The issue also has Israeli and Digitglobe sat pics of Pak's Khushab nuclear complex "still producing plutonium and tritium",which is being expanded.It clearly shows the new third reactor/facilities being built and the defences as well.Pentagon estimates are that Pak has 59 nukes.According to Stae Dept. and Pentagon officials,Pak reluctantly agreed to revamp security with US help and the US has "worst-case" plans to use force to "protect,seize or destroy the cores of Pak nuclear weapons to keep them out of terrorist hands".Funny story as Pak's "hands" are those of terrorists!

shetty · Post by **shetty** » 09 Aug 2008 01:42

China eyeing base in Bay of Bengal?

rajrang · Post by **rajrang** » 09 Aug 2008 03:51

Upgrade of airbases - with emphasis on the N.E.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 343937.cms

DBO airbase in Ladakh - Hope China gets the message and reduces its misbehavior towards India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 097563.cms