China Military Watch

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
skher
BRFite
Posts: 197
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 23:58
Location: Secured; no idea

Re: China Military Watch

Postby skher » 05 Nov 2008 19:39

Singha wrote:thats why spending indian money on pakfa is a big mistake. all the pakfa tech
will be sold to prc in due course.

we should buy the al41 engine and gearbox thats all. but being a A2G bird, MCA
would as well work with 2 x ge414 / ej200 engines.


saar,doesn't that make pak-fa an even more important tool, albeit a costly one,to discover about the chinese re-engineering capability?

The cost would be shouldered by brazil as well now.

iirc, pak-fa is intended to give us much needed access to aero-engine tech and ToT.

We should be done with the buyer role....our intelligence and brain power should be insulted any more , especially when china is getting its act together by wooing back its many of its foreign-based brains for strategic projects.

K Mehta
BRFite
Posts: 959
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 02:41
Location: Bangalore

Re: China Military Watch

Postby K Mehta » 06 Nov 2008 10:58

It looks like the photos have been taken in the horizontal plane, I think the photos are of the plane doing a tight turn.

narayana
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 12:01

Re: China Military Watch

Postby narayana » 06 Nov 2008 12:09

China considers next-generation Su-33s for aircraft carrier programme


can any gurus run a comparison of capabilities between su-33 and our Mig 29 Kubs?and any comparison between vikramaditya and varyag?

Thanks in advance

Avinandan
BRFite
Posts: 215
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 12:29
Location: Pune

L15 looks awesome !!

Postby Avinandan » 06 Nov 2008 13:53

http://i38.tinypic.com/k18ncp.jpg
Saw this pic, posted in earlier page.
Looks awesome, infact China can make a cheap fighter plane out of it.
Hope, IJT can also graduate to the same level.

vavinash
BRFite
Posts: 556
Joined: 27 Sep 2008 22:06

Re: China Military Watch

Postby vavinash » 06 Nov 2008 13:57

Why would anyone buy that piece of crap when the original Yak-130 is available.

Avinandan
BRFite
Posts: 215
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 12:29
Location: Pune

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avinandan » 06 Nov 2008 14:11

vavinash wrote:Why would anyone buy that piece of crap when the original Yak-130 is available.

True, but this would be cheap, and by the way why do think that this is a piece of crap. It may be copied but may be a good aircraft.

soutikghosh
BRFite
Posts: 178
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 11:21
Location: new delhi
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch

Postby soutikghosh » 06 Nov 2008 19:11

vavinash wrote:Why would anyone buy that piece of crap when the original Yak-130 is available.


Actually there are 3 planes which came from Y-130. First is Russian Y-130 itself, second is Italian M-346 and lastly Chinese L-15. These are all latest generation trainers in the market and the Italian one is the most advanced among these three but the only reason why the Chinese would win among the markets where is competes with this plane is because of growing Chinese political and military clout/influence among third world countries especially in Africa and South America, fast rate of delivery unlikely to be matched by other competitors and sweet economic/loan help offer along with the aircraft which would sweten the deal in it's favour.

Dmurphy
BRFite
Posts: 1543
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 11:20
Location: India

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Dmurphy » 07 Nov 2008 18:43

China to acquire Su-35 MKKs equipped with cruise missiles and KS-172?
Present plans of the PLA Air Force call for the acquisition of 38 Su-35MKKs whose primary armaments package will include Novator’s KS-172 long-range air combat missile as well as the Yakhont multi-role supersonic cruise missile from NPO Mashinostroineyie. Interestingly, the Yakhonts will be upgraded will an all-digital navigation-and-guidance system developed by Russia’s JSC Konstern Avionika. Therefore, it is now a distinct possibility that the Yakhont-equipped Su-35MKKs will become operational much earlier than the BrahMos-equipped Su-30MKI. The Yakhonts will also be on board the Su-33MKKs, eight of which are on the verge of being ordered by the PLA Navy.


What the eff!

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16996
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 07 Nov 2008 18:48

sengupta warning system goes beep !

Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avinash R » 08 Nov 2008 15:11

xposts
Chinese troop numbers increase in Lhasa, Tibet
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 63,00.html
November 08, 2008 03:44am
CHINA has intensified its military presence in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa.


China's iron fist cracks down to subdue Tibetan rebels
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 37,00.html
November 08, 2008
IN the ancient back alleys of Tibet's capital, Lhasa, a grim military operation has played out this week, hidden from the eyes of the world. As night falls, hundreds of Chinese troops fan out across this rebellious city, armed with riot shields and assault rifles.



Chinese way of making friends
Obama, McCain computers 'hacked' during election campaign
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2008/n ... -house-usa

FBI discovers cyber attacks during the summer originated in China and stole large amounts of data

Hackers broke into the computer systems of the Barack Obama and John McCain campaign teams during the US presidential race and stole a ''serious amount of files" in an operation that US government cyber experts believe originated from China.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 08 Nov 2008 15:22

can the Su33 take off and land from ski jump carrier with same 100% load of fuel
a land based Su27 can carry?

Sontu
BRFite
Posts: 103
Joined: 06 Aug 2008 19:32

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sontu » 08 Nov 2008 23:17

Dispatch from Zhuhai: China's J-10 fighter is the real deal

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... as-j1.html

Blog contributor Vladimir Karnozov, a Moscow-based aerospace journalist, visited the Zhuhai air show this week, and files this sobering report about the new J-10 fighter.

ZHUHAI -- There is an old anecdote. The optimists around the world learn English. The pessimists, Chinese. But down-to-earth study the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

I think it is time for the down-to-earth crowd to study their rifles using Chinese manuals!

Two years ago every important source told me, let's wait two years and see what comes of China's new J-10 fighter.
Now everyone I trust says the Chinese pulled it off, and the J-10 has proven a tremendously successful program.

I watched how the J-10 flew over Zhuhai, in 30 degree Celsius temperatures and high humidity.

The pilot did none of the show tricks like post-stall or tail slide or pitch-back, but turns were very tight, initial rate of turn very high. It was clear there is a lot of potential in this airplane to achieve the same maneuvers more quickly.

The pilot rarely used afterburner and the degrees of canard deflection were small. Still, the airplane flew very well. I reckon it will beat F-16C or MiG-29/SMT easily.
Chinese have already completed over 100 J-10s and they have bought more Russian engines for next series.

I do not think they would buy more Flankers since the J-10 is as good as the Flanker, to say the least.

Chinese military said "no" to local engine makers and "no" to local makers of some key systems, instead buying these critical items directly from Russia.

As for AWACS support, it is present with 4 A-50 equipped with KJ-2000 radars and it seems the Chinese have bought a special version of the Ka-31, although very much different from the Indian navy version. Apparently with a new radar.

If proper tactics are used, the PLAAF can beat Taiwanese opponents in conventional air war. Unless the US makes it into a full scale world-for-world battle, the central committee of the Chinese Communist Party does have a chance.

Sontu --->Can we expect this J-10 is having atleast same aerodynamic performance as F-16 XL (It was proposed for U.S. Air Force's Enhanced Tactical Fighter (ETF) competition but ultimately lost to the F-15E Strike Eagle)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL

J-10 has similer geometric configurations with canards, while F-16 XL did not have any canard in those days.

I have read some where that in simulated combat J-10 has defeated Chine new J-11 (Chineese upgraded Su-30 version).

Note Pak is going to get around 40 upgraded J-10s by 2009.

Regards,

maz
Webmaster BR
Posts: 348
Joined: 03 Dec 2000 12:31

Re: China Military Watch

Postby maz » 09 Nov 2008 01:57

If it ain't already crystal clear by now, do people realize that HAL/Indian aerospace industry is falling behind China's aerospace industry by the hour?

I can only imagine what the IAF Air Warriors were thinking when they see contemporary Chinese aircraft besides their ancient Kirans. Certainly not pride. Maybe the IAF should hold off sending the SKAT abroad until they receive better looking planes because I fail to see the positive PR value in this exercise. It is a lot like showing up with an Ambassador at an international Auto Expo.

anishns
BRFite
Posts: 1342
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 09:43
Location: being victim onlee...

Re: China Military Watch

Postby anishns » 09 Nov 2008 02:26

Sontu wrote:Sontu --->Can we expect this J-10 is having atleast same aerodynamic performance as F-16 XL (It was proposed for U.S. Air Force's Enhanced Tactical Fighter (ETF) competition but ultimately lost to the F-15E Strike Eagle)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL

J-10 has similer geometric configurations with canards, while F-16 XL did not have any canard in those days.

I have read some where that in simulated combat J-10 has defeated Chine new J-11 (Chineese upgraded Su-30 version).


Sontu, I think you're getting a little over enthusiastic by this report. If the chinese are so cool.....how come they are still using Russian Engines. Can you please provide a neutral source which ascertains the chinese claims of J-10 blowing the J-11's (chinese copy flankers) out of the sky?? How come the J-10 gave such a lack-lustre performance at that air show then?? Even the pukis were whining about it in the deaf-and-dumb forum....hell even our Surya Kirans did a better job.

BTW I have also read about some reports of a certain J-10 having crashed....

Note Pak is going to get around 40 upgraded J-10s by 2009.
Regards,


They don't have enough money to pay for toilet paper...we'll see when they acquire these so-called "upgraded" J-10s by 2009. Even if they do, I think the IAF is more than a match for this paper tiger.

Having said that, maybe the chinese are ahead in the aeronautical industry vis-a-vis Indians but, these reports would hardly make the IAF lose much sleep. I know very well the delays we are having with LCA and MRCA but, in the end atleast we are aware of the capabilities of our fighters....not some glorified panda propaganada meant for the sole consumption of their "tarrel than mountain friends."

peace!
:P

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: China Military Watch

Postby harbans » 09 Nov 2008 04:42

Saturday, November 8, 2008
China Aims IRBMs At India

China Aims IRBMs At India
(NSI News Source Info) November 8, 2008: Apparently in response to recent Indian tests of longer range missiles, China has moved over a dozen of its DF-21 IRBMs to Yunnan Province (which borders Myanmar, and puts most of eastern and northern India within range). The DF-21 has a range of 1800 kilometers and a 300 kiloton warhead. China has over fifty of them. Previously, most DF-21s were aimed at Russia and Japan.


http://defense-technologynews.blogspot. ... india.html

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Nov 2008 05:33

If it ain't already crystal clear by now, do people realize that HAL/Indian aerospace industry is falling behind China's aerospace industry by the hour?


@maz, sorry i dont think so. all this proves is that china is good at PR and not really delivering

consider the number of HAL/local programs that are currently running and delivering value to IAF and local industry and i dont think indian aerospace is falling behind

in fact race has just started

fighters:
Jag upgrades and mig 27 upgrades in delivery (each with sensors better than anything in plaaf service) + darin3 upgrades in spec phase
230 mkis to be delivered by 2014 and with mrca coming thereafter
28 lca to be delivered for IOC by 2012 with series production coming after that
PAKFA codevelopment

helicopters:
over 140 dhruvs being delivered to all 3 services, including wsi dhruv
lch program in progress, luh program in progress

transports
MRTA program in progress
Saras being produced with follow on program
HAL plan for 70-100 seater

TRAINERS
HJT-36
HPT-34

UAV
Lakshya
nishant
MALE - Rustom


all this accomplished at fractgion of money china have put into their so called dpsu industries which are frankly making russias stalin era production complexes look far efficient in comparison
please talk to some folks in the industry and they are mindboggle at the amount of inefficiency china has in terms of throwing money to different bureaus and hoping it works

in name of rationalization china created AVIC2 and AVIC1

even that has been at best partial success despite investment that make HAL look like nothing
despite a lot of talk, ARJ21 manager finally looked west to get most ancillary equipment since it was clear local stuff was not good enough.

moral: china is making huge strides but dont get bedazzle by razzle dazzle. behind all the glitter there are significant problems which they hide

hal won export contract for ALH against foreign competiton from bell, kamov till date china has not managed single contract of that nature in aviation
usually their contracts are price based dumping + political deals (Eg pakistan which lack alternative sources of supply)

I can only imagine what the IAF Air Warriors were thinking when they see contemporary Chinese aircraft besides their ancient Kirans. Certainly not pride. Maybe the IAF should hold off sending the SKAT abroad until they receive better looking planes because I fail to see the positive PR value in this exercise. It is a lot like showing up with an Ambassador at an international Auto Expo.


it will show the chinese public a lot when the chinese plaaf cannot mount a single proper flying display in comparison

it will also bring the importance of local programs to the pilots there

these are the future of the iaf and they will bring back a belief that its better to invest in homegrown equipment

i think you are being unceccsarily pessimistic and dont understand what SKAT are

when british came visiting, one RAF pilot said: in my plane i can do "this" but in yours it takes skill. the SKAT have nothing to be ashamed of

maz
Webmaster BR
Posts: 348
Joined: 03 Dec 2000 12:31

Re: China Military Watch

Postby maz » 09 Nov 2008 09:45

Vikram_S, let me make it clear that I am not at all disparaging the flying skills of the SKAT. That they do what they do with what they got speaks volumes about their flying and maintenance skills.... rather what I am getting at is this: what is the PR value of sending the SKAT to Zhuhai without some slick looking indigenous aircraft like the IJT? What was the larger goal of sending them there besides showcasing their formation flying skills? Friendship tours?

FYI, almost all civl aircraft and military aircraft programs source equipment from Western vendors (and, to a lesser extent, from the East). The Russians are doing the same for their civil programs, HAL has been doing the same, so why should the Chinese do anything differently? It would be a grave mistake to underestimate the Chinese. Their products are improving very rapidly, and unlike India, failure often means the firing squad, so their program managers and engineers are highly motivated to succeed.

Indian aerospace industry would be far better off to tie up with Brasils's Embraer to develop 100-150 seat commercial planes and military cargo planes than putz about trying to develop something locally with no global commercial prospects.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: China Military Watch

Postby sunilUpa » 09 Nov 2008 12:26

Vikram_S wrote:[
even that has been at best partial success despite investment that make HAL look like nothing
despite a lot of talk, ARJ21 manager finally looked west to get most ancillary equipment since it was clear local stuff was not good enough.

moral: china is making huge strides but dont get bedazzle by razzle dazzle. behind all the glitter there are significant problems which they hide

hal won export contract for ALH against foreign competiton from bell, kamov till date china has not managed single contract of that nature in aviationusually their contracts are price based dumping + political deals (Eg pakistan which lack alternative sources of supply)



Oh they just did..

China aircraft maker sells five jets to GE

There is photograph of Chinese spectators watching SKAT display....most had their mouth open..

link to photograph

Caption - AEROBATICS: People look up in surprise Friday as they watch the Indian Air Force Surya Kiran Aerobatics Team conduct manoeuvres at the China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition in Guangdong province, China.

anishns
BRFite
Posts: 1342
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 09:43
Location: being victim onlee...

Re: China Military Watch

Postby anishns » 09 Nov 2008 12:47



From the article:

GE Commercial had signed a preliminary agreement in March with COMAC to buy five 78-seat ARJ21 jets fitted with GE engines, with an option to buy another 20 at an unspecified date.

"The options are not going to be exercised at this point," Andre Robert, head of marketing for GE Aviation, told Reuters.

Margaret Lee, GE Aviation's general manager for government relations, said the aircraft would cost around $30 million each and she expected the ARJ21 to obtain flight certification by U.S. and Chinese aviation authorities by 2010, with the planes to be delivered soon afterwards.

"We have confidence and belief in this airplane," she said, without specifying where these aircraft might be used or leased.

The first test flight for the ARJ21 will take place in Shanghai on Nov. 16, she added.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5152
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 09 Nov 2008 13:16

maz wrote:If it ain't already crystal clear by now, do people realize that HAL/Indian aerospace industry is falling behind China's aerospace industry by the hour?

I can only imagine what the IAF Air Warriors were thinking when they see contemporary Chinese aircraft besides their ancient Kirans. Certainly not pride. Maybe the IAF should hold off sending the SKAT abroad until they receive better looking planes because I fail to see the positive PR value in this exercise. It is a lot like showing up with an Ambassador at an international Auto Expo.


Maz, Canadian Snowbirds have been operating the CT-114 Tutor since 1971 and they routinely fly all across the US, where the Thunderbirds fly F-16s and Blue Angels fly the F-18s..yet, I've never heard anyone complain about them not getting positive PR out of it..as long as SKAT doesn't recieve its Sitaras, they should continue to fly the Kirans, abroad as well. what matters is the quality of the display, the aircraft are a plus for sure, but we'll get there in time too.

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Nov 2008 15:02

Vikram_S, let me make it clear that I am not at all disparaging the flying skills of the SKAT. That they do what they do with what they got speaks volumes about their flying and maintenance skills.... rather what I am getting at is this: what is the PR value of sending the SKAT to Zhuhai without some slick looking indigenous aircraft like the IJT? What was the larger goal of sending them there besides showcasing their formation flying skills? Friendship tours?


i think this picture answers your question about the "PR value" of the SKAT.

Image

read what I wrote again. it speaks volumes that what the IAF can do the PRC still cant and the people at zhuhai, including professional chinese aviators can see it for themselves.

and when you say this: "What was the larger goal of sending them there besides showcasing their formation flying skills?"..it does not reconcile with "let me make it clear that I am not at all disparaging the flying skills of the SKAT. "

if all you think SKAT does is formation flying, which every rookie in IAF learns, then there is nothing to be discussed


FYI, almost all civl aircraft and military aircraft programs source equipment from Western vendors (and, to a lesser extent, from the East). The Russians are doing the same for their civil programs, HAL has been doing the same, so why should the Chinese do anything differently? It would be a grave mistake to underestimate the Chinese.


this only shows you havent been following ARJ progress at all

FYI ARJ managers went to town initially with claims they would source everything locally. later they said "some from abroad" and now it resembles the typical system integration effort of commercial civil aircraft

so understand the context all it means is that chinese tend to talk big on their PR and get away with bs because people dont track their claims on constant basis, most statement are in chinese language and because 90% of chinese people are so brainwashed with china great, china strong that they dont question their govt


Their products are improving very rapidly, and unlike India, failure often means the firing squad, so their program managers and engineers are highly motivated to succeed.


this is quite frankly absolutely wrong and the usual stuff one reads on the internet

indian managers are as motivated as or even more than chinese types and given the financial resources put in comparable programs (just see the defence budget and AVIC1 and 2 setup) it should be evident of the actual setup

and chinese managers rarely get sent to any squad, firing or otherwise

developing country like china cannot afford to throw people away
not india as well

it takes huge corruption scandal, big loss of face for any action to be taken and that is fundamental difference between india and china

fYI china runs on the "you scratch my back i scratch yours principle" in many govt organizations
the complex network between decision makers, politicians and petty pelft is so entangle that it absolutely frustrates professionals who work with them

anyone who has worked with chinese on projects (and gone past first layer of marketing bs) will tell you how protected functionaries in china are

and please make your mind up

nobody here is underestimating china

and that was not your initial claim

but your initial statement of "china overtaking india hour by hour" was clearly wrong the gap is not so large at all

in terms of both sophistcation of system and manufacture india is still keeping pace with china with far lower expenditure and resources in aeronautics

that shows fundamentally indias systems is stronger

tell me, where is chinas hjt-36
who gave HAL the design for an IJT

nobody

the "slick" plane flying about at zhuhai which impress you is nothing but the yakovlev 130 design given by russia to china and which the chinese are now pushing around

yes they are ahead in some areas but byu no mean so much that we should sit and cry

Indian aerospace industry would be far better off to tie up with Brasils's Embraer to develop 100-150 seat commercial planes and military cargo planes than putz about trying to develop something locally with no global commercial prospects.


nopes, its not that simple

what makes you think embraer wants to give a share of its design and manufacturing pie to HAL

its the current market leader and has many of its own plans lined up for that segment
even bombardier will lauigh at us for saying the same

they will accept india only if india breaks into the market by showing its own design and development capability with its own hard earned effort

ur saras, is attempt in that direction

and then they will beat a path to your door for commercial projects because they cant ignore you anymore

otherwise tie up with these guys and keep making doors for their airliners

everyone is talking tot for mrca now because of LCA
and HAL is now planning JVs for LOH, MEdum Helicopter because we did the hard works in ALH

and FYI china itself is contemplating similar project for even widebody aircraft since it is fed up of paying huge money to airbus boeing and fighting for every bit of offset
Last edited by Vikram_S on 09 Nov 2008 15:23, edited 1 time in total.

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Nov 2008 15:06

sunil wrote: "Oh they just did..
China aircraft maker sells five jets to GE"


sorry, that is not conclusive proof given the amount of commercial agreements between china and GE and the widespread offset drama that is periodically going on between PRC and US corps

i will tell you what means an equal effort as ALHs in latin america

J-10 competing against f-16 block 50, gripen, and winning
their new attack helicopter winning against ah-64, mangusta or mi-28
or this new arj-21 winning agaisnt bombardier and others in an international bid versus planes from bombardier, embraer

they have achieved this in case of mLRS though where their MLRS won in gulf states
and some of their small arms and artillery is good

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2223
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: China Military Watch

Postby vivek_ahuja » 10 Nov 2008 00:18

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=10433

New Delhi: External Affairs Minister, Pranab Mukherjee has once again said that Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India.

Speaking at the Buddhist Mahotsav festival at the Tawang Monastry, Mukherji said there was no dispute over Arunachal Pradesh.

The state is an integral part of India and will continue to remain so, reiterated the minister.

No power on earth can snatch it, he added.

The Chinese have been making territorial claims over Arunachal Pradesh and a recent remark by Mukherji when he allegedly said that China is a threat to India may not have helped India's cause.

The Chinese have objected to these remarks made by Mukherji :rotfl: .


Sontu
BRFite
Posts: 103
Joined: 06 Aug 2008 19:32

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sontu » 10 Nov 2008 23:22

A comprehensive report and analysis on recent ZHUHAI show in China.

“Chinese Show and Tell”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1225914 ... lenews_wsj

Mr. Sternberg says “One thing is clear: At the broadest level, China is intent on rivaling the U.S. as a military superpower. In part Beijing will achieve this by catching up to the U.S. in terms of China's own capabilities”.

Mr. Sternberg is an editorial page writer with The Wall Street Journal Asia.


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20606
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Philip » 11 Nov 2008 15:53

The stark truth is ignore China at your peril,whatever the truth and origin of its dramatic progress in defence modernisation might be.Ever since Deng uttered the "modernisations" mantra,the Chinese have kept focussing on it as their main goal foir the 21st century,which will bring them within striking distance of matching the US in the power equation by the middle of the 21st century.For India to merely keep pace with the Chinese is going to be a herculean task as our dear leaders first think of themselves and their personal interests and only last of the nation's.

rajkhalsa
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 41
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 09:55

Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajkhalsa » 12 Nov 2008 03:27


rajrang
BRFite
Posts: 415
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 08:08

Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajrang » 12 Nov 2008 05:00

China reacts angrily to Pranab Mukherji's statement:

http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/12/stories ... 341200.htm


Since the Chinese believe that the McMahon line was never officially demarcated, maybe India should claim large regions of Tibet to the north of McMahon line.

India needs to re-arm urgently. The barbarians have made their thinking very clear - India cannot pretend that reality is something different - that will be like an ostrich in the sand.

Nayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2553
Joined: 11 Jun 2006 03:48
Location: Vote for Savita Bhabhi as the next BRF admin.

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Nayak » 12 Nov 2008 06:14

We are so scaled onree !!!

All they can do is go red in the face, wave the lil led book at us and scream in impotence.

Now let us wait for the resident 'I-am-so-scared-of-Chicoms' / 'I-will-pout-sun-tzu' lovers to start whining and :(( :(( :(( about the accusations.

andy B
BRFite
Posts: 1598
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 11:03
Location: Gora Paki

Re: China Military Watch

Postby andy B » 12 Nov 2008 06:25

Philip wrote:The stark truth is ignore China at your peril,whatever the truth and origin of its dramatic progress in defence modernisation might be.Ever since Deng uttered the "modernisations" mantra,the Chinese have kept focussing on it as their main goal foir the 21st century,which will bring them within striking distance of matching the US in the power equation by the middle of the 21st century.For India to merely keep pace with the Chinese is going to be a herculean task as our dear leaders first think of themselves and their personal interests and only last of the nation's.


Philip mate, completely agree with you on this point, we cannot ignore the dragon even one bit and doing so will lead to our peril. One point that I do think needs to be taken into consideratin is that the dragon, for starters has been having problems with a lot of its neighbours not just us. These massive modernisation progrs. will most definitely increase their power projection ability tremendously, but at the same time the capability of its neighbours will also increase. Yes it probably won’t be on par as the panda but it will still act as a major deterrent. Panda cannot try and push their way through everywhere because then they will be the same case as the amrikhans stretching their forces thin JMHO.

I suppose the key to all of this would be our Govt being more assertive and growing a spine and a set, but then the our babus wont wake up until the public itself does so I guess in the end it all comes back to us as well BRF is definately doing its part.

SriniY
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 75
Joined: 20 Sep 2008 11:11

Re: China Military Watch

Postby SriniY » 12 Nov 2008 09:56

I somehow doubt the proposition that their army would be thinned out if the PLA is deployed on multiple fronts. PLA with its massive resources will not hesitate to recruit a lot more soldiers. They will have enough soldiers to fight simultaneously on the Taiwan and Tibet front, atleast the ground offensive. They are surely building up their logistics to fight a multi front war, if necessary.

andy B
BRFite
Posts: 1598
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 11:03
Location: Gora Paki

Re: China Military Watch

Postby andy B » 12 Nov 2008 10:57

^^^
SriniY agreed that they can wage a conflict on multiple fronts and their massive logistics chain can support these campaigns. And yes they also can recruit more personnel as necessary, but:

1). If they move simultaneously on taiwan an tibet think of the opposition that they will be facing - Uncle will inevitably get involved also they will be facing proper armed forces not guerillas or abduls.

2). In a scenario as stated above how long will they be able to sustain such multiple fronts, these days its all about having a quick decissive short but effective campaign rather than a prolonged conflict IMHO panda will not be able to sustain it beyond a limited time.

3) They wont go for the ground offensive unless they are absolutely sure that they can win it and keep the occupied land. Yes they are building their capability towards doing that, but as I stated above other countries are not sleeping. Panda is already considered a threat and looked warily by some asian/south east asian countries. I think that as long as these countries are aware of what panda is doing it will maintain a quid pro quo in Asia. (new cold war I suppose to a certain extent its already happening e.g. the north east border upgrade being carreid out by the tiger and the dragon, here's where our babus need to get of their fat a$$es and show some initiative not to mention grow a set)

4). That Malabar excercise where sing, oz, unkil, yindoo, japanese etc navies excercised together created such a big stir for panda. Now that was just the first of the naval excecise that created such a massive impact. In the near future there will be even more increased co-op between these navies and that will definitely have an impact on panda policies IMHO.

If they make such a move I also think it will create a lot of negative mistrust and negative impression with the other world countries. IMHO countries that would be looking forward to panda would then be questioning themselves what if panda makes a move on them?

Just my 2 cents

narayana
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 12:01

Re: China Military Watch

Postby narayana » 12 Nov 2008 10:59

China reacts angrily to Pranab Mukherji's statement:China on Tuesday angrily rejected India's assertion that Arunachal Pradesh is its integral part, insisting that Beijing never recognised the "illegal" McMahon Line and that the status of the border state was "never officially demarcated".


See how bluntly they made their point,can we dare to the same with Tibet,Aksai Chin or Pok,or atleast with srilanka or maldives.i would say after Indira Gandhi,we had all chicken hearts :(

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4850
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Neshant » 12 Nov 2008 11:10

I get the feeling that we will eventually land up in a military skirmish with these chicom goons.

andy B
BRFite
Posts: 1598
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 11:03
Location: Gora Paki

Re: China Military Watch

Postby andy B » 12 Nov 2008 11:13

narayana wrote:
China reacts angrily to Pranab Mukherji's statement:China on Tuesday angrily rejected India's assertion that Arunachal Pradesh is its integral part, insisting that Beijing never recognised the "illegal" McMahon Line and that the status of the border state was "never officially demarcated".


See how bluntly they made their point,can we dare to the same with Tibet,Aksai Chin or Pok,or atleast with srilanka or maldives.i would say after Indira Gandhi,we had all chicken hearts :(


They can make a blunt point because 100 or so men in the Polit bureau are deciding the fate of more than a billion people. Their leadership has an iron hand ruling. Besides they now have they economic power and to a good extent military power to back those claims. I suppose the silver lining in this for us is that amdist the constant squabling going on between bjp, cong and our other most respected leaders, our govt actually made this statement that itself I consider a good sign IMHO.

We do desperately need leaders like Indira Gandhi and Sardar Patel, but for those leaders to emerge these bloody political parties need to start getting their act together. I fully know and understand that my talk above is of an idiot idealist, in this day and age.

Neshant the way its going we will most definitely end up getting in a skirmish with panda, only thing we can do on our side is wake up to that reality and prepare to smash some panda teeth as and when the time comes.

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2223
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: China Military Watch

Postby vivek_ahuja » 12 Nov 2008 12:04

Anand Barve wrote:Neshant the way its going we will most definitely end up getting in a skirmish with panda


One of the reasons the 62 war happened is because our political leadership had an ability for making grandiose comments about defense matters in complete contrast with the realities on the ground. They thought like western politicians: more talk and no walk, expecting the chinese to do the same. Unfortunately, the Chinese didn't think in that dimension at all. To them if you talked, you walked. Note that the Chinese knew our capabilities (or lack thereof) on the ground on the eve of their invasion back in 62 but still considered Nehru's comments on throwing out the chinese a very serious issue. They were in a position to laugh it off but didn't. Why laugh it off when you are actually in a position to rub the other guy's face in the mud, right?

The thing is that these comments by our side are considered as a loss of face by the Chinese, and as a result making grand one line statements is vastly more dangerous than making firm physical commitments on the ground, which of course our political system won't do. Its one of those cases where we choose to ignore the lessons of the past and therefore history begins to repeat itself. At least that was my feeling on reading Pranab's comments.

How can this country advance forward when everybody chooses to ignore the lessons of the past?

Only thing we can do on our side is wake up to that reality and prepare to smash some panda teeth as and when the time comes.


Unfortunately it seems that it might just come to that some point down the line.

-Vivek

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 13 Nov 2008 11:54

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 131149.htm

Nigerian satellite launched by China loses power

BEIJING (AP): A Nigerian communications satellite built and launched by China has been knocked out of service due to a power failure, a spokeswoman for China's launch services provider said onThursday.

The Nigerian Communication Satellite, or NIGCOMSAT-1, ceased functioning early morning Tuesday Beijing time, said Geng Kun, the spokeswoman of Great Wall Industry Corp., the company that sent the satellite into orbit atop a Long March 3-B rocket in May, 2007.

``The solar wing malfunctioned, which led to exhaustion of electric power, then the satellite failed,'' Geng said.

Most satellites carry solar panels on an extendable wing to generate electricity, with backup batteries activated only when in the earth's shadow.

Intended to expand cell phone and Internet services in central Africa, the satellite's launch last year was hailed as the first time a foreign buyer had purchased a Chinese satellite and its launching service. It was built by the China Academy of Space Technology as part of a $311 million deal signed by China and Nigeria in 2004.

China has built up a lucrative satellite launching industry, in part by catering to developing nations. Last month, Venezuela's Chinese-made Simon Bolivar Satellite was launched from the Xichang base in China's southwestern Sichuan province. It is scheduled to begin carrying radio, television and other data transmissions in early 2009 after three months of tests.
Last edited by svinayak on 13 Nov 2008 11:59, edited 1 time in total.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16996
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 13 Nov 2008 11:58

link please.

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sanku » 13 Nov 2008 12:05

vivek_ahuja wrote: At least that was my feeling on reading Pranab's comments.


Vivek; what do you eat for breakfast? What gives you these wise insights?

You da man.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests