China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kuldipchager » 01 Dec 2008 11:11

Mr.Ssiva or what ever is your name is.In early 50's if Stalin had't given huge weapon to china(MAO SE TUNG),and the help to make all the weapons. Do you realy think that China cuold have taken ASKI CHIN and have war 1962.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kumar_k » 01 Dec 2008 12:55

Kudos to the Mods. :D

Such Morons need to be silenced.
Just look at how much of Bakwaas from the Chin-Propaganda he is posting.
Must be a worshipper of Mao and Deng.
All Bakwaas without a single fact or any legit. source.

If all of us were like u ,
Damn, we would have been still living in the Stone Age.

You need some quality education.
And do not GIGO all the time.

And if u really want to post such blatant and ignorant statements.
Join a Paki or Chinese forum.
I bet your wisdom will be greatly apprecited and worshipped there.


JAI HIND.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long Live the Martyrs.

Hemant Karkare, Maj. Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Gajendra Singh, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar, Shashank Shinde, Praksh P. More, Bapusaheb Durugade, Tukaram G. Omble, Balasaheb Bhosale, Arun Chitte, Jaywant Patil, Yogesh Patil, Ambadas Pawar, M. C. Chowdhary, Mukesh B. Jadhav.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ssiva » 01 Dec 2008 14:08

Guys i don't understand what you guys are thinking about... But i think you guys need to get your facts right.. Check some of the articles available in BR which will tell you guys what i am talking about. I am not here to dwell on anything. What has happened is in the past and what is happening is going to decide the future. Don't just live in some sentiments, come out of that and think what needs to be done to fix problems.

So please instead of warning me.. Look at your own talks... I am not going to make any other statement which is hitting on some blackboard...
I can see too many morons around me....

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kumar_k » 01 Dec 2008 14:23

ssiva wrote:Guys i don't understand what you guys are thinking about... But i think you guys need to get your facts right.. Check some of the articles available in BR which will tell you guys what i am talking about. I am not here to dwell on anything. What has happened is in the past and what is happening is going to decide the future. Don't just live in some sentiments, come out of that and think what needs to be done to fix problems.

So please instead of warning me.. Look at your own talks... I am not going to make any other statement which is hitting on some blackboard...
I can see too many morons around me....


Thanks for your vile advice.(Was'nt asked for though.)

If you have read through those articles so carefully, why don't u provide us the links to it??
whatever rantings you have made here, are without any facts or any proof.

None of us here is living in a dreamworld.
Many members here are GAZILLION times wiser than you.

You ignorant rants here are of no importance to any of us here.
You are making a fool of yourself in this forum.

it is advised that you remain loyal with your Chinese and paki Forums.
your comments are not at all welcome here.

Anyways you are the Moron here. :rotfl:

JAI HIND.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long Live the Martyrs.

Hemant Karkare, Maj. Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Gajendra Singh, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar, Shashank Shinde, Praksh P. More, Bapusaheb Durugade, Tukaram G. Omble, Balasaheb Bhosale, Arun Chitte, Jaywant Patil, Yogesh Patil, Ambadas Pawar, M. C. Chowdhary, Mukesh B. Jadhav.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 01 Dec 2008 17:33

Gerard wrote:nsa_tanay

I see another moderator has deleted your post. That should make it clear that Chinese propaganda of this sort is not welcome here.

If you check the special forces thread, you will see where Indian SF (thin, wiry) have come out on top in the Botswana desert SF competitions, beating teams of much more muscular SF.
Sheer size clearly does not make a soldier.

Now the Chinese compulsions of 'face' and their attempts to present a certain false image to the world are well known here. That video may be the rage on Chinese internet fora but that has no place here. Clever editing is the realm of psy-ops and this forum is not the place where such psy-ops against India will be found. Those troops you find so lacking have actual battle experience (unlike the others in the video). You cannot come here and simply assert that Indian soldiers are inferior (based on a Chinese propaganda video). Such posts will not remain.

I advise you to lurk a while and read some of the threads in the archives. There you will learn about RAW SFF covert actions in China, physical requirements for the military etc.






@Gerard, Thanks, had you told me that before , I would not have become so much enraged. I didn't thought that video a Chinese propaganda. After all we are all rational creature and need some logical explanations for our grey matter, right ? :D
I simply saw that video in youtube. And I was deeply shocked :cry: and hurt seeing the performance of our troops. And posted that out of emotional outburst. And tried to start a constructive discussion to overcome the loop holes in the physical fitness training of our soldiers.


Anyway, lets forget it. I searched for RAW covert Ops in China in BR forums. But could not find. Please can you point me out where it is. I will certainly look into the performance of out SF in Botswana desert SF competitions.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 01 Dec 2008 17:34

kumar_k wrote:nsa_tanay.
are you a real chinese citizen or just representing the chinese gov. here.??

believe the moderators.
they are saying the true thing.
unlike you people(due to the Chinese Propaganda, u only see what the gov. wants u 2 c),
we do have access to free media, and so we can see what's really happening around the world,
as a reason of which are views are bound to hurt you.(even though they are real)





@kumar_k, I am an Indian. But the only difference between you and me is that I belong to the group of people who are called liberal and open minded.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kumar_k » 01 Dec 2008 20:35

nsa_tanay wrote:What is this ? How can you delete some thing that is 'true' ? Rather accepting the scope of improvement left in the Army , how can you ignore it.

You must answer.


Well i could not get much of what you had said in this thread.
But what i did see, was the above post,
And your blatant remarks about the Indian ARMY , and that is what i responded to.

Being open-minded means that one should be sensible enough to judge the right from the wrong.
and to accept the right thing without any hesitation.
But your above remarks do not speak of your wisdom and liberal nature.

just accepting anything indigenous as inferior, does not make one an open-minded person.
although that trend is in vogue nowadays. :x

And sorry for calling you a Chinese.(u must have felt bad. :D )

JAI HIND.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long Live the Martyrs.

Hemant Karkare, Maj. Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Gajendra Singh, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar, Shashank Shinde, Praksh P. More, Bapusaheb Durugade, Tukaram G. Omble, Balasaheb Bhosale, Arun Chitte, Jaywant Patil, Yogesh Patil, Ambadas Pawar, M. C. Chowdhary, Mukesh B. Jadhav.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 01 Dec 2008 21:07

ssiva wrote:Guys i don't understand what you guys are thinking about... But i think you guys need to get your facts right.. Check some of the articles available in BR which will tell you guys what i am talking about. I am not here to dwell on anything. What has happened is in the past and what is happening is going to decide the future. Don't just live in some sentiments, come out of that and think what needs to be done to fix problems.

So please instead of warning me.. Look at your own talks... I am not going to make any other statement which is hitting on some blackboard...
I can see too many morons around me....


ah, a classic case of dragon pox.
I recommend an immediate appointment with one of the ministry authorised healers at St.Mungo's.
The address has been sent to your email and PM inbox.
regards.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 01 Dec 2008 21:40

HariC, plz check PM inbox. top left corner of page.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 02 Dec 2008 15:55

kumar_k wrote:
nsa_tanay wrote:What is this ? How can you delete some thing that is 'true' ? Rather accepting the scope of improvement left in the Army , how can you ignore it.

You must answer.


Well i could not get much of what you had said in this thread.
But what i did see, was the above post,
And your blatant remarks about the Indian ARMY , and that is what i responded to.

Being open-minded means that one should be sensible enough to judge the right from the wrong.
and to accept the right thing without any hesitation.
But your above remarks do not speak of your wisdom and liberal nature.

just accepting anything indigenous as inferior, does not make one an open-minded person.
although that trend is in vogue nowadays. :x

And sorry for calling you a Chinese.(u must have felt bad. :D )

JAI HIND.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long Live the Martyrs.

Hemant Karkare, Maj. Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Gajendra Singh, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar, Shashank Shinde, Praksh P. More, Bapusaheb Durugade, Tukaram G. Omble, Balasaheb Bhosale, Arun Chitte, Jaywant Patil, Yogesh Patil, Ambadas Pawar, M. C. Chowdhary, Mukesh B. Jadhav.





Agreed and accepted.

" And sorry for calling you a Chinese.(u must have felt bad. :D ) " ---> :rotfl: I felt very bad :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ssiva » 02 Dec 2008 21:05

Chinese and indian military comparison

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internatio ... al-nuclear
Last edited by Gerard on 03 Dec 2008 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please respect copyright

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Chinmayanand » 02 Dec 2008 23:52

Rahul M wrote:@ ssiva

chinese military strength is like their national animal, the dragon.
both are mythical creatures. :lol:

sorry, that was GIGO.


Well Said !!!
I thought Chinese are (light years) inferior to Indians. Their only strength is the their trillion dollar forex reserve ...i do not know exactly how much of that is accumulated by the Chinese sex workers across the world.
India has two potential threats ; China and Pakistan . Both are non-democratic .
India's only weakness is its DEMOCRACY .Bring in a military rule here and we will be on the top of the world.
No Democracy , no minority appeasement . No Talk, Just Action .

Jai Hind , Jai Bharat !!!

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kumar_k » 03 Dec 2008 02:13

[quote="ssiva"]Chinese and indian military comparison
deleted
That Guy you are quoting is a chinese .
Read through his other articles, and you will soon know that.

Are you posting articles without even reading through them??
That article you posted above says it all.

Conventional Forces of Indian Army are better than that of China.
Chinese navy is miles behind the Indian Navy in terms of experience, and quality.(Chinese Navy is still abrown water Navy.)

Only Significant lead is the Air Force, and the nuclear arsenal(which is of no use in a conventional war).

The article is wrong in various areas.
for eg:
The most powerful bomb has a yield of 0.05 MT. :rotfl:
Agni 2, India’s longest range, deployed ballistic missile is capable of a range of 2500 km.(We have Agni 3)
China is leagues behind the USA.

Please,
Get to Your Senses and stop posting Crap.

JAI HIND.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long Live the Martyrs.

Hemant Karkare, Maj. Sandeep Unnikrishnan, Gajendra Singh, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar, Shashank Shinde, Praksh P. More, Bapusaheb Durugade, Tukaram G. Omble, Balasaheb Bhosale, Arun Chitte, Jaywant Patil, Yogesh Patil, Ambadas Pawar, M. C. Chowdhary, Mukesh B. Jadhav.
Last edited by Gerard on 03 Dec 2008 03:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please avoid personal attacks

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Yogi_G » 03 Dec 2008 05:01

durgesh wrote:
Rahul M wrote:@ ssiva

chinese military strength is like their national animal, the dragon.
both are mythical creatures. :lol:

sorry, that was GIGO.


Well Said !!!
I thought Chinese are (light years) inferior to Indians. Their only strength is the their trillion dollar forex reserve ...i do not know exactly how much of that is accumulated by the Chinese sex workers across the world.
India has two potential threats ; China and Pakistan . Both are non-democratic .
India's only weakness is its DEMOCRACY .Bring in a military rule here and we will be on the top of the world.
No Democracy , no minority appeasement . No Talk, Just Action .

Jai Hind , Jai Bharat !!!


Please please please don't get into "A is light years ahead of B" business. Both India and China are strong nations, both have their respective strengths. For e.g. in nuclear and strategic forces India is no match for China and similarly in overall quality and effectiveness of conventional forces China is no match for India....Lets give our neighbours their due credit...

BTW democracy is not a weakness dude, its our core strength, if war breaks out between India and China, Indian populace would come out in support for the Govt, but in China the peasants of "Peasant's and People's army" will revolt...who do you think between these 2 would then win the war???

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby vivek_ahuja » 03 Dec 2008 05:14

Yogi_G wrote:Lets give our neighbours their due credit


Absolutely. Off late a lot of jingo spirit has been clouding the objectivity of this thread. We need to get back to discussing hard facts rather than the abstract A>B and B<A type of discussions.

Yogi_G wrote:BTW democracy is not a weakness dude, its our core strength, if war breaks out between India and China, Indian populace would come out in support for the Govt, but in China the peasants of "Peasant's and People's army" will revolt...who do you think between these 2 would then win the war???


Having said the above, I would like to point out that one of the reasons that a good portion of the members here lobbying for military type control is probably not because of the supposed "weakness" ( :roll: ) of democracy as much as the lack of understanding between the two organizations at the central level. In other words, military oriented people think the GOI does not understand what needs to be done and vice versa. The relationship between the civilian and military governments is all important. By default, then, a military rule takes care of the above.

But is that government style good for its people? No.

This is what differentiates the all important politico-military relationship between the two government systems of India and China. Bottomline is that the Chinese politico-military relationship is far more interlinked and networked than the polarized version on the Indian side.

That, and not the change in democracy etc is what needs to change.

-Vivek

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Jagan » 03 Dec 2008 05:28

kumar_k

check your personal message inbox - its on the top left of the page beside the logout link

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby andy B » 03 Dec 2008 05:42

^^^
Vivek saar, I agree with everything you say. The reason IMHO why there is a very fluid relationship between PLA and the Polit bureau is accountability and very strict accountability at that with dire consequences.

Also the honchos of the PLA are under very direct control of the Polits.

In our case the first thing our Govt needs to learn would be the Govt exists because and for the Country, the Country doesn't exist for the Govt.
Our netas cant even recognise the gems that they already have before running off after phoren maal.(Yes I am talking abt DRDO it might be a bit rough around the edges but if the govt puts a little effort in, it will shine.....key words here would be "BELIEVE IN IT" Rome wasnt built in a day)

Mullahs I am well aware this is OT I just couldn't help it, please delete if necessary

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby wrdos » 03 Dec 2008 08:28

It is totally true, China is in fact light years inferior to India. If a war happens tommorrow between the 2 countries, India needs less than 1 week to liberate the whole Tibet, maybe 1 month only to liberate even Beijing. Yeah, by this War India sure will win her ever first foreign victory through her history of 6000 years, against an enemy outside the sub-continent.

India deserves this Golden Medal, which is thousand times heavier than her first Olympic model, happened won in Beijing too.

durgesh wrote:
Rahul M wrote:@ ssiva

chinese military strength is like their national animal, the dragon.
both are mythical creatures. :lol:

sorry, that was GIGO.


Well Said !!!
I thought Chinese are (light years) inferior to Indians. Their only strength is the their trillion dollar forex reserve ...i do not know exactly how much of that is accumulated by the Chinese sex workers across the world.
India has two potential threats ; China and Pakistan . Both are non-democratic .
India's only weakness is its DEMOCRACY .Bring in a military rule here and we will be on the top of the world.
No Democracy , no minority appeasement . No Talk, Just Action .

Jai Hind , Jai Bharat !!!

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 03 Dec 2008 08:46

wrdos, don't worry there are some over enthusiastic batters for either side but as a senior member I would expect you not to fall for those. :wink:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby renukb » 03 Dec 2008 12:02

From UPI.com

China wants to buy Ukraine's An-70 military air transport

HONG KONG, Dec. 2 (UPI) -- Ukraine and China have been engaged in negotiations on the joint design of a large military transport aircraft, according to sources in Ukraine's Antonov Aircraft Co. The agreement was expected to be signed this month, with the aircraft project to begin soon afterward.

According to a source in the Ukrainian military industry, the basic design concept of the aircraft already has been finalized. The Chinese military transport aircraft will adopt different design concepts and technologies than the Antonov An-70 transport aircraft designed by the former Soviet republic of Ukraine and the Russian Federation, the source said, and will be powered by four jet engines. Additional technical details of the transport aircraft are to be finalized after the signing.

In recent years the People's Republic of China has greatly reinforced its strategic military ties with Ukraine in a variety of areas, but this is the two countries' first collaboration in developing a large aircraft. A source from the Russian aviation industry told United Press International that China did not ask for Russian assistance on this project, suggesting that China is shifting its design cooperation away from Russia and toward Ukraine. It also indicates that the new aircraft will be an upgrade of the Antonov An-70 air transport rather than a duplication of it.

China expressed keen interest in the Antonov An-70 air transport as early as the mid-1990s, when the aircraft was undergoing flight tests in Russia and Ukraine. The aircraft did not get off to an auspicious start, however. The first Antonov An-70 prototype was tested in Kiev, Ukraine, in December 1994, but the same plane crashed the following year. The second prototype was damaged in an accident at Omsk, Russia, in 2001.

In 2002 Russia and Ukraine agreed to each take a 50-percent stake in the project, and two more prototypes were manufactured. But by April 2006, following the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, Russia decided to withdraw from the project.

The Antonov An-70 air transport is still being tested. The Ukrainian air force appears to be the only buyer, having announced its intent to procure five of the An-70 aircraft. China's decision to design its own large military transport aircraft on the foundation of the Antonov An-70 technologies is apparently intended to take advantage of the extensive testing the aircraft already has undergone, to save research and development time.

The Antonov company source has confirmed the Chinese military transport aircraft will not be fitted with the Antonov An-70's D-27 engine, though it did not disclose what type of engine will be used. The D-27 engine has an output thrust power of 14,000 horsepower, maximum payload of 47 tons and a flight range of 4,050 miles with a payload of 20 tons.

China recently imported 240 D-30 KP-2 engines from Russia to use in upgrading its own, home-produced H-6K bombers. It is unlikely that this engine would be used for the military transport plane, however. Russia is already replacing some of the D-30 KP-2 engines on its Ilyushin Il-76 air-lifter with upgraded D-30 KP-3 or PS-90 engines. The D-30 KP-2 does not meet Europe's latest noise control standards, so the Ilyushin Il-76 military air transport powered by these engines are not allowed to land at European airports.

--


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 05 Dec 2008 09:42

PRC/NoKo do the "stone faced" riot control intimidation thing very well.

some of the scariest humans on earth are deployed by Noko on DMZ
as ceremonial guards - it is alleged.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Lalmohan » 05 Dec 2008 19:08

Singha wrote:PRC/NoKo do the "stone faced" riot control intimidation thing very well.

some of the scariest humans on earth are deployed by Noko on DMZ
as ceremonial guards - it is alleged.


i have seen them up close and personal. they are scary

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Katare » 05 Dec 2008 20:30

durgesh wrote:
Rahul M wrote:@ ssiva

chinese military strength is like their national animal, the dragon.
both are mythical creatures. :lol:

sorry, that was GIGO.


Well Said !!!
I thought Chinese are (light years) inferior to Indians. Their only strength is the their trillion dollar forex reserve ...i do not know exactly how much of that is accumulated by the Chinese sex workers across the world.
India has two potential threats ; China and Pakistan . Both are non-democratic .
India's only weakness is its DEMOCRACY .Bring in a military rule here and we will be on the top of the world.
No Democracy , no minority appeasement . No Talk, Just Action .

Jai Hind , Jai Bharat !!!


Childish and emotional comments doesn't serve any purpose. We are here not see who's got bigger one but to have rational discussion and learn about chinese military capabilities.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 05 Dec 2008 20:53

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb79 ... 75a2e2.jpg

These guys sure are photogenic....they always seem to turn up in amazing poses in all pics.

They seem to be sporting pretty interesting( and different) camo....also,notice the shiny,spanking new kits and guns with them.

Btw, which guns are they using? Look pretty mean and clean!!!

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby R Sharma » 06 Dec 2008 08:24

Probably the QBZ-95. Standard issue for the PLA Infantry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby neerajb » 06 Dec 2008 10:21

http://lh6.ggpht.com/hydmastipics/SMAIBl3DrqI/AAAAAAAAjCM/Q46yxbuCKSU/s800/184166image009.jpg


Their gear is really impressive whether cosmetic or not. Providing full protection to the body till the neck part. I wish Indian riot control personel could have gear like this.

Cheers....

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby neerajb » 06 Dec 2008 10:44

A look at the PLA Type 95 and 5.8mm round







What a hypocrite they are. On one hand, in the above videos, they claim that the selection of 5.8X42 caliber shows that they are a defensive force and at the same time they develop 5.56X45 NATO standard QBZ-97.

Cheers....

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby RamBharose » 06 Dec 2008 12:27

sum wrote:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb79 ... 75a2e2.jpg

These guys sure are photogenic....they always seem to turn up in amazing poses in all pics.

They seem to be sporting pretty interesting( and different) camo....also,notice the shiny,spanking new kits and guns with them.

Btw, which guns are they using? Look pretty mean and clean!!!



Photogenic soldiers belong to the photo shoots only, not the battlefield.
And the guns just like the baby-faces that carry them, apparently do not belong in the battlefield either.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as80-e.htm
From the link,
For various but unpublished reasons the bullpup Type 95 / QBZ-95 assault rifle was apparently found not entirely satisfactory in PLA service.


Every thing is for show onlee. :D

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sunny_s » 06 Dec 2008 13:06

Yes really the chinese govt.is dedicated to make thier PLA boys look like the glamour dolls of the military world

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajkhalsa » 08 Dec 2008 07:53

Here is an interesting article I found while browsing the Chinese language message boards with online translators:
Undercover in the India-China Joint Exercise barracks: Indian barracks war preparedness level is high (with pictures) / 揭秘中印联训军营:印军营区战备水平高(图)
Summary: The India-China "Hand-in-Hand 2008" army anti-terrorism joint exercise is about to start. Where are the participating Chinese platoon's quarters? How is the barracks environment? What are the Indian army's distinguishing features? Come see what the reporter interviewing the participating Chinese troops has revealed in the report. / 核心提示:中印“携手2008”陆军反恐联合训练即将开始。中方参训分队驻扎在哪里?营区环境如何?印军又有什么特色?来看随中方参训部队访问的记者为我们透露的一线报道。


Reading this page through google translator can give a basic translation of this article, and more enterprising people can read the Popjisyo character-by-character translation for a painstaking read but a better understanding of the article. Online Chinese dictionaries are also useful to figure out some of the words.

I find it rather amusing that the euphemism the Chinese call military-style folding of bedsheets in a barracks room is making a cube of tofu, and the observation that the MLI barracks are shaped like tofu cubes. :)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby prashanth » 08 Dec 2008 09:16

link.

Four US helicopter engines were stolen along the route in April and 36 Nato fuel trucks were torched near the pass in March.


Probably sold to china for a price?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby neerajb » 08 Dec 2008 10:46

RamBharose wrote:
For various but unpublished reasons the bullpup Type 95 / QBZ-95 assault rifle was apparently found not entirely satisfactory in PLA service.


Every thing is for show onlee. :D


Yes that's why they have developed a conventional design QBZ-3 for use along with QBZ-95. Looks like QBZ-95 is for Psy-ops and QBZ-3 for actual fighting.

Cheers....

rajkhalsa
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajkhalsa » 08 Dec 2008 11:45

rajkhalsa wrote:Here is an interesting article I found while browsing the Chinese language message boards with online translators:
Undercover in the India-China Joint Exercise barracks: Indian barracks war preparedness level is high (with pictures) / 揭秘中印联训军营:印军营区战备水平高(图)


Aw hell, here's a translation I whipped up using babelfish, popjisyo and a couple online and downloaded Chinese dictionaries, and some help from a Taiwanese friend of mine. A lengthy, rather painful but strangely enjoyable exercise that I wont repeat soon....

===========================

Aw hell, here's a translation I whipped up using babelfish, popjisyo and a couple online and downloaded Chinese dictionaries and a A lengthy, rather painful but strangely enjoyable exercise...

Summary: The India-China "Hand-in-Hand 2008" army anti-terrorism joint exercise is about to start. Where are the participating Chinese platoon's quarters? How is the barracks environment? What are the Indian army's distinguishing features? Come see what the reporter interviewing the participating Chinese troops has revealed in the report. / 核心提示:中印"携手2008"陆军反恐联合训练即将开始。中方参训分队驻扎在哪里?营区环境如何?印军又有什么特色?来看随中方参训部队访问的记者为我们透露的一线报道。

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Through the wire netting, this soldier sends a smiling face at reporter / 透过铁丝网,这名士兵向记者送来笑容

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The Chinese side soldiers line up bring something from the kitchen to the table / 中方士兵排队打饭

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A formation of China soldiers passes walks by Indian soldiers / 中国士兵列队从印度士兵旁边走过

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The Chinese-side joint-exercise platoon's officers and soldiers to fold the quilt like a "tofu cube", and the Chinese soldiers "characteristic" was brought the Indian barracks / 中方参训官兵把被子叠成"豆腐块",也把中国军人的"特色"带到了印度军营


Summary: The India-China "Hand-in-Hand 2008" army joint anti-terrorism exercise is about to start. Where are the participating Chinese division's quarters? How is the barracks environment? What are the Indian army's distinguishing features? Come see what the reporter interviewing the participating Chinese troops has revealed in the report. / 核心提示:中印"携手2008"陆军反恐联合训练即将开始。中方参训分队驻扎在哪里?营区环境如何?印军又有什么特色?来看随中方参训部队访问的记者为我们透露的一线报道。

On 4th before dawn, our line of six reporters following our Chinese division to the China and India joint anti-terrorism exercise set off from Yunnan, Kunming riding an Il-76 . After 5 hours and 3125 kilometers long-distance plane trip, we arrived at Indian Punjab airport. / 4日凌晨,我们中方一行六名记者随中印陆军反恐联合训练的中方参训分队乘伊尔-76从云南昆明出发。经过5个小时3125公里的长途机动,我们到达了印度普那机场。

This is obviously an air force airport, our IL-76 stopped nearby India's most advanced Su-30 fighter aircraft. / 这显然是个空军机场,我们的IL-76就停在了印度最先进的苏-30战斗机旁边。

After brief welcome ceremony, the Chinese-side exercise division arrived at the Bei-er-gao-mu [maybe Begumpet??] airport through 6 sorties of airborne transportation, finally transferring to vehicles to arrive at the the place where the officers and men are stationed for joint-exercise -- the Maratha Light infantry Regimental Center [translated as infantry school??]. Guan Zhining / 简短的欢迎仪式后,中方联训分队通过6架次空中运输抵达贝尔高姆机场,最后又转乘车辆抵达联训官兵驻地--马拉塔轻步兵学校。 关志宁


The Indian military camp is a manor-like compound and "tofu cube"-like barracks / 军营像庄园 "豆腐块"特色带到印军营房

Wherever one looks, Indian armed forces' barracks look like do not look like a military compound, but look like a manor or a resort. The climate here is optimum, the temperature is about more than 20 degrees Celsius, and feels quite comfortable. / 目光所及,印军的营房看起来不像军营更像庄园或者度假村。这里气候适宜,温度20多摄氏度左右,感觉比较舒服。

I can not but acknowledge that the Indian armed forces barracks area's afforestation is good, particularly the tropical plants, for instance several people can come hug the big banyan fig, green and luxuriant, "one-tree grows to forest" used in here is quite appropriate. / 我不得不承认,印军营区的绿化非常好,尤其是一些热带植物,比如几个人才能抱的过来的大榕树,郁郁葱葱,"独木成林"用在这里比较合适。

The Chinese-side joint-exercise platoon's officers and soldiers dormitory is a brown two story courtyard type of building, the middle has a big courtyard, where one may do formation or have simple recreation. / 中方参训官兵的宿舍是棕灰色二层院落式楼房,中间有一个大天井,可以在这里集合或者进行一些简单的娱乐。

The soldier's dormitory can hold 16 people, does not have the air conditioning, has a telephone, and each soldier has a big closet, and a book shelfed writing desk. / 士兵宿舍可容纳16人,没有空调,配有一部电话,每个战士都有一个大衣柜,一个带书柜的写字台。

Is different with the Chinese serviceman's permanent connected berths. The Indian army's bunks are separated with the cabinet and the bedboard, and each soldier has free space. This is probably is English influence, which pays great attention individual privacy. / 与中国军人常住的通铺不同,印军床铺之间用柜子和床板隔开,每个士兵有自己独立的空间,这大概是受英国人影响,注重个人隐私吧。

The Chinese-side joint-exercise platoon's officers and soldiers to fold the quilt like a "tofu cube", and the Chinese soldiers "characteristic" was brought the Indian barracks / 有意思的是,中方参训官兵一到宿舍,就把被子叠成了"豆腐块",把中国军人的"内务特色"带到了印度军营。

Nearby the dormitory which in the Chinese-side exercise platoon lives, a retail shop also sells some India specialty handicrafts and souvenirs. But does not provide any daily necessities, for example water or food. / 在中方联训分队居住的宿舍附近,还有一个专门出售印度手工艺品和纪念品的小卖铺。这里不提供任何生活用品,比如说水或者食物。

I felt that it is probably improvised for the sake of Chinese soldiers. / 我感觉好像是为了中国士兵特设的。

I have been to Russian and Pakistan's military compound, felt that the difference between Indian armed forces and Pakistan's military compound is not very big. / 我到过俄罗斯和巴基斯坦的军营,感觉印军和巴基斯坦的军营差别不是很大。

The Russian force military compound facility is quite advanced, each dormitory has special rooms to let clothes dry in the sun, the restroom and washrooms between. In comparison the Indian armed forces' military compound is somewhat simply set up, not much different from our domestic [Chinese] military compounds. / 俄军军营设施比较先进,每个班的宿舍里都有专门的晾衣房、厕所和洗漱间。相比之下,印军的军营设置简单一些,和国内的军营没有太大差别。


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Among the building is a big courtyard, where one may muster or watch television / 楼房中间有一个大天井,可以在这里集合、看电视

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Our IL-76 the transport aircraft stops nearby these Su-30 fighter aircraft / 我们的IL-76运输机就停在这些苏-30战斗机旁边

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This internet net Reporter Li Gang gets to know a new Indian friend in the media center / 本网记者李刚在新闻中心结识的印度新朋友

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Although I cannot get used to eating Indian meals, the quality of milk is high / 印度伙食虽然吃不惯,但是牛奶质量高


The sentry fully armed Indian armed forces have a strict hierarchy pay great attention the actual combat / 哨兵全副武装 印军等级森严注重实战

India's barracks construction, the sentry post installation is in not heavy form, embodies the Indian armed forces' practical style. / 印度的营房建设、哨位设置不重形式,体现了印军务实的风格。

The sentry post is made of sandbags, three-ply-wood and pillars set up simply. / 哨位由沙包、三合板和柱子简单搭建而成。

The barracks of the Chinese side is encircled with 2 meter high three wire guard fencing. Compared to fences made of clay brick, the cost is low, but the functionality is good. / 中方居住的营区用2米高的三层铁丝网围成护栏。比起砖土建成的围墙,成本低,实用性好。

These are relatively simple sentry post, where the expenditures were not excessive, if the wire fencing was reconstructed into a wall, the construction cost will enhance, moreover the function of wire fencing is on close terms with that of the wall, the dense and numerous barbed [wiring] prevents bystanders from entering. / 这些相对简单的哨位、铁丝网都不会花费太多,如果铁丝网改建为围墙,造价就会提高,而且铁丝网的作用比围墙要好,密密麻麻的铁刺更可以阻挡外人进入。

Another characteristic is that each sentry post has a motorcycle, strong mobility if there is a situation where two soldiers can ride the motorcycle to another sentry post in the shortest time. / 另外一个特点就是每个哨位都有摩托车,机动性较强,有情况两个战士骑上摩托车用最短的时间就可以抵达另一个哨位。

Moreover, the Indian armed forces soldier performs duties wearing the camouflage clothing, combat boots, walkie talkies, the ammunition belt, fully armed and prepared for battle. If a sudden incident were to occur, can enter the fight at a moment's notice. / 而且,印军执勤的战士穿迷彩服、战斗靴、配对讲机、子弹带,全副武装荷枪实弹,可以应付突发事件,随时投入战斗。

Indian armed forces' camouflage clothing color is the flowered green, the style is like autumn tree leaves, the body shape is rather fit, moreover the edges and corners are quite distinct. / 印军的迷彩服颜色是花绿色,像是十月份的树叶子,样式、线条比较合体,而且棱角比较分明。

The Indian force hierarchical system is quite strict, regardless of whether the Indian armed forces soldiers saw a Chinese or Indian armed forces military officer, they all salute with a "Yes sir!" I saw with my own eye, a soldier render a salute to two chatting officers 20 meters distant, although the military officers hadn't even seen him. / 印度军队等级制度相当严格,印军士兵无论见到中方还是印军军官,都是"Yes sir!"敬礼。我就亲眼见到,一个士兵在距离两位聊天的军官20米外敬礼,尽管军官根本没看到他。

Newly arrived, some do not adapt to India's diet. We the first food we eat is with mung bean, curry, the bread flour, etc made into soup. The taste is spicy, with meat and vegetable. Each person also has 2 pieces of cooked fish, the staple food is the rice and cake. / 初来乍到,对印度的饮食有些不适应。我们吃的第一顿饭是用绿豆、咖喱、面粉等做的汤,味辣,肉菜每个人还有2块炖鱼,主食是米饭和饼。

Then in a day, from a detailed list supplied by our side, the India side bought and brought the raw material, and the Chinese soldiers started cooking themselves. Therefore we ate the cooked potato, beef, the noodles on the following day ......However what is worth mentioning is that the Indian milk is specially tasty. Guan Zhining / 接下来的日子,将由我方提供采购清单,印方代买所需原料,中国士兵开始自己动手。所以转天我们就吃到了土豆炖牛肉、面条……不过值得一提的是印度牛奶,特别好喝。 关志宁


Media center facilities all ready, commanding senior colonels's living cabin / 新闻中心设备齐全 大校指挥员住方舱

In order to facilitate a reporter to send a manuscript, the Indian armed forces have specially set up the media center in the barracks area. Besides a facsimile, international phones, an internet connection, there are also has Indian armed forces' soldiers to provide special service . I tried accessing the internet and the speed is also quite quick. / 为了方便记者发稿,印军特别在营区内设立了新闻中心,除了传真、国际长途、国际互联网接口外,专门有印军的士兵提供服务。我试了一下上网速度还比较快。

What I felt was unexpected is that, I had unintentionally search and found WIFI access to the wireless internet with my notebook computer in the barracks. I did not know if this is provided by the media center, and is not encrypted, so that this way a reporter does not need to go through the the news center to send off a manuscript, this not only not be lets me save a big expense, it also illustrates a characteristic feature of how the Indian armed forces treats the internet. / 更让我感觉意外的是,我在宿舍里用笔记本电脑无意间搜索到了WIFI无线互联网。我不知道这是不是新闻中心提供的,而且没有加密,这样记者可以不通过新闻中心向外传稿,这不仅仅是让我节省了一大笔费用,同时说明印军在对待互联网的使用上是有自己特色。

In the Indian armed forces military compound is supplies power on time. This is to satisfy the Chinese-side exercise personnel's electricity consumption, the Indian military install the high power generators alone for us, guaranteeing that we have 24 hours electricity usage, but will insure will burn out frequently. / 印军军营内是按时供电的。这次为满足中方联训人员用电量,印军方单独为我们安装了大功率发电设备,以保证我们24小时用电,不过保险经常会烧坏。

This time the India side's commander provided for Chinese side two commanding senior colonels two special side cabin compartments to live. I visited a side cabin: it was several square meters in size, and are equipped inside with a simple bedroom and receive guests, and all has air conditioning, a bath room, the bathroom have it all, because the weather is hot, three's only 8, 9 small fans installed. / 印方这次专门为中方两位大校指挥官提供了两辆移动方舱居住,我参观了其中的一辆方舱:十几平米大小,里面设有简单卧室和会客间,空调、洗澡间、卫生间一应俱全,因为天气较热,仅小风扇就装了八、九个。

This kind of compartment can be moved by trailer as one pleases and is very useful for outdoor use. An Indian military officer told the reporters, only brigadier-general and above command staffs can live in this kind of side cabin. / 这种可由拖车随意移动的方舱非常利于野外使用,一名印度军官告诉记者,只有准将以上的指挥人员才能住上这种方舱。

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Indian armed forces prepares a snack for the Chinese side soldiers / 印军为中方士兵准备的茶点

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Indian military has installed two transformers in the military compound for the exercise / 印军方为联训在军营中安装了两台变压器

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The sentry post is made of sandbags, three-ply-wood and pillars set up simply / 印军营房的哨位由沙包、三合板和柱子简单搭建而成

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An elepant snapped while leaving to the Maratha Light Infantry regimental center / 在前往马拉塔轻步兵联队中心途中拍到的大象

The Chinese-side joint-exercise platoon's officers and soldiers dormitory is a brown two story courtyard type of building, the middle has a big courtyard, where one may or carries on some simple recreation / 中方参训官兵的宿舍是棕灰色二层院落式楼房,中间有一个大天井,可以在这里集合或者进行一些简单的娱乐。

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Chinese side military expert group Leader Senior Colonel Tian Yixiang introduces the side cabin's interior facilities to reporters / 中方军事专家组组长田义祥大校向记者介绍方舱内的设施

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This propagandizes an Indian armed forces “counter-terrorist hero.” The picture poster hangs in Chinese-side exercise platoon's dormitory entrance / 这张宣传印军“反恐英雄”的宣传画就挂在中方联训人员宿舍门口

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We finally ate the breakfast which we made / 终于吃到了我们自己做的早点

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Arunkumar » 08 Dec 2008 18:27

From the above post

Although I cannot get used to eating Indian meals, the quality of milk is high / 印度伙食虽然吃不惯,但是牛奶质量高 :-?

Must have missed the taste of melamine in it.

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article. ... 7s+infants

sum
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 08 Dec 2008 20:53

What I felt was unexpected is that, I had unintentionally search and found WIFI access to the wireless internet with my notebook computer in the barracks. I did not know if this is provided by the media center, and is not encrypted, so that this way a reporter does not need to go through the the news center to send off a manuscript, this not only not be lets me save a big expense, it also illustrates a characteristic feature of how the Indian armed forces treats the internet.

What does he mean by the bolded part? praise or jhapad? :-?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby bhavin » 08 Dec 2008 21:05

sum wrote:
What I felt was unexpected is that, I had unintentionally search and found WIFI access to the wireless internet with my notebook computer in the barracks. I did not know if this is provided by the media center, and is not encrypted, so that this way a reporter does not need to go through the the news center to send off a manuscript, this not only not be lets me save a big expense, it also illustrates a characteristic feature of how the Indian armed forces treats the internet.

What does he mean by the bolded part? praise or jhapad? :-?


If I understand it correctly, it might be a mild jhapad saying that our soldiers would never leave the wifi unencrypted like this. But I think the reporter should have tried to use GOOGLE through indian internet.... then he would have been really surprised :wink:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 08 Dec 2008 22:02

bhavin wrote:
If I understand it correctly, it might be a mild jhapad saying that our soldiers would never leave the wifi unencrypted like this. But I think the reporter should have tried to use GOOGLE through indian internet.... then he would have been really surprised :wink:

Maybe Indian CO left it that way deliberately

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby aditp » 08 Dec 2008 22:26

http://www.c3sindia.org/strategicissues/419

.....and the article goes...

China: Strategic Experts Talk About a Partial Sino-Indian War

D.S.Rajan, C3S Paper No. 230 dated November 24, 2008
Especially since the visit to Arunachal Pradesh in early November by the Indian Minister of External Affairs, Mr Pranab Mukherjee, views are being expressed at regular intervals by a section of the strategic community close to the authorities in the People’s Republic of China (PRC) that a fresh Sino-Indian border conflict may be possible. While the official Chinese response to what was stated during the visit by Mr Mukherjee, has mainly remained confined to reiteration of Beijing’s territorial position and expression of ‘ deep regret’, the studies of the PRC’s experts are in the nature of looking at the boundary issue in a strategic dimension, especially in the context of their perceptions about India’s alleged military reinforcements in the border and counter-measures required for China. What is important is that they are not ruling out the eruption of a ‘partial border war’ between the two nations. At this juncture when Sino-Indian relations are being described officially by China as marking the ‘best period’ in history, it becomes imperative for New Delhi to understand the real meaning of such views, which are being conveyed through Chinese language publications meant for the domestic audience.

First deserving attention is the comment (in Chinese language, China Institute of International Strategic Studies, 20 November 2008) of “Zhan Lue”, believed to be a high level cadre. He visualises ‘two crises’ for the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in the immediate sense – Situation in North Korea if Kim Jong Il succumbs to his reported illness and India’s border provocation to divert attention from its economic crisis resulting from the global financial meltdown, began in October 2008. Regarding the former, the strategist feels that the PLA cannot afford to remain a silent spectator if the US and South Korea intervene in North Korea once Kim is dead. On India’s provocation, he points out that in recent years, the economic development factor has been responsible for promoting that country’s military and nuclear weapon development programme; this may encourage New Delhi to incite Beijing. Already, since June 2008, India has been intruding into China’s territory in the border many times in an attempt to create incidents. In the opinion of the analyst, New Delhi would like to shift attention from the emerging contradictions in India’s economic structure following the global meltdown, to provoking China, even launching a ‘partial war’ against China.

Zhan Lue also refers to another source of challenge that can contribute to a ‘ new large-scale Sino-Indian military clash’- India’s opposition to China’s proposal to carry out projects aimed at diverting Brahmaputra river waters to its Northeastern parts. Expected to be protracted, such a clash may result in setback for China – damage to Tibet highways and railways. The analyst adds that the PRC should be prepared for India’s projection of its military strength vis-à-vis China in the border including the Western sector, and also in the Indian Ocean; Beijing should also take into account the possible ‘restriction’ at the same time of China by the US and Russia, respectively in Taiwan Straits and Ussuri river border.

It may be worth referring to what another article said two days earlier (zhong hua.net, military section, Chinese language, 18 November 2008). It observed that the border issue is only a symbol of Sino-Indian friction; the basic point concerns New Delhi’s thinking that Beijing is the ‘greatest obstacle’ to India’s rise. Saying that India’s occupation of ‘Southern Tibet’ (China’s name to Arunachal Pradesh) is a security threat to China, it suggests that in counter, the PRC may adopt a strategy aimed at weakening the control of the Indian central government through steps like ‘splitting’ and ‘dismembering’ India. In that way, India, which is inferior to China in terms of comprehensive national strength, cannot challenge the PRC in future.

The subject of another war with India is also figuring in contributions of Chinese analysts, most of them from military, to the Bulletin boards of several strategic research and military websites, all apparently receiving supervision of the government. It is true that by their very nature, they cannot be said to reflect official opinions, but what could be important is that their publication would not have been possible without some sort of patronage from the authorities. Worth mentioning are four such articles. One raises (Global Times net, by a Tibetan cadre, 19 October 2008) a key question as to why some Chinese experts are making references to ‘disputed border ’ with India, whereas the entire Southern Tibet, now under Indian occupation, is a Chinese territory without any dispute (the same theme was discussed in C3S Paper No. 104 of 4 February 2008). It demands that the Central Government should tell the public clearly about its position – whether it would recover Southern Tibet or maintain status quo. A second report alleges (chinaiiss.org, 27 October 2008) that India is building in large-scale, new airports and military installations in the border, for ‘defeating China in a war’. According to a third comment (chinaiiss.org, 15 November 2008), if a war breaks out again with India, the Chinese aim should be to recover Southern Tibet; as such that war would be basically a ‘partial’ one, without affecting other border fronts. In this war, China should make Pakistan as its ally and help the latter in recovering Kashmir.

Catching attention is also a fourth Bulletin Board report authored by a possible high level military analyst, entitled “Tibet Military District is fully prepared to deal with a possible Sino-Indian border clash” (bbs.news.sina.com.cn, 17.November 2008). Alleging that discordant notes regarding the Sino-Indian border have very recently emanated from a ‘certain big power’ in South Asia (unmistakable reference to India, though not by name), it focuses on China’s military preparedness in Tibet in response. Revealing that the 52 and 53 Mountain Brigades and the 149th Mobile Division of the 13th Group Army, act as mainstay in China’s defence of Tibet, it, in an unusual manner, gives out enormous data on the Orbat in Tibet Military District, particularly on the formation of various Brigades. The article further points out that in recent years, facilities for communications and transport could be improved in Tibet; through the newly built Qinghai-Tibet Railway, troops and material can be quickly transported. New highways have been established in the Ali region and the latest building of airports like Linzhi, have contributed to mobility of troops, including that of Second artillery. At the same time a negative factor is that the Air Force is not permanently stationed in Tibet.

Why there is a talk in China now on the possibility of a limited Sino-Indian war? It definitely looks like a scenario building exercise undertaken by the Chinese strategists. However, there seems to be a hidden sense of urgency on the subject among them; explaining this is their rationale that India’s new border infrastructure initiatives are in the nature of provoking China. While it cannot be denied that if another war breaks out, even partial, Sino-Indian relations would undoubtedly suffer much, the question arises - can such a war really erupt? The answer could be no, considering the present comfort level in Sino-Indian ties. It would be pertinent to note in this connection that latest views of Chinese specialists are not in tune with the official line of the PRC, which considers that each country is not a threat to the other and that bilateral relations can be developed looking beyond the complex border dispute, which may take time to solve. India is in agreement with this line. Also, their sentiments run counter to the excellent atmospherics now surrounding the bilateral relations at the moment- mutual economic dependence level has increased, trade volume is going up, joint military exercises have started and the ties are said to have assumed a global character.

At the same time, one does not fail to notice that China is speaking in two voices on Sino-Indian ties. It would, however, be wrong to take them as contradictory to each other; they only go to distinguish the different policy priorities of key agencies in China. To explain, a border war, as conceived by Chinese strategists, may reflect the calculations of the military and security establishment in China for which no compromise is possible on the issue of national sovereignty (for e.g Taiwan and Tibet). On the other hand, in the diplomatic front, Beijing needs to show a benign face, hence its soft line towards India under the ‘harmonious world’ foreign policy concept. But even here, Beijing does not hesitate to admit the existence of ‘cold peace’ with India (PRC Ambassador to New Delhi, Zhang Yan, Ifeng journal, 21 June 2008). In any case, it should be borne in mind that the Chinese policy making mechanism at top levels provides space to integrate such differing priorities.

As far as India is concerned, such talks of war in China, to say the least, may have an ‘unsettling’ effect on it. A partial war with China may look illogical for India at the moment; but prudence demands New Delhi to keep an eye on any surprise Chinese move along the border. In a larger perspective, however, it would be important for India not to over react to signals, howsoever conflicting they may look, emanating from China, taking into account the long term benefits that may accrue to it from a policy of ‘engaging’ China.

(The writer, D.S.Rajan, is the Director of the Chennai Centre for China Studies, Chennai, and India.)



Could the current and recent (in China) Indo-Chini exercises be an experiment to assess the real capabilities of the Indian Army? And will this be followed by tests of the IAF and IN aswell, before the chinks show their ugly intents again? :shock:


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