China Military Watch

[Rahul M]

the first half of 90's had grounded much of the mig-29 fleet so the flying hours at that time might not have been great. off the top of my head IAF pilots average about 180hrs/yr and I'm not sure if two pilots were alloted for the mig-29s.

right now the fulcrums are nearing the end of their service life and hence noises of upg are getting stronger. I do think(not sure) that there have been some tinkerings on the fulcrums over the years.

[parshuram]

Chinese Aircraft Carrier Capability Unlikely Before 2015, Says US Report

Jane’s Navy International Comments

LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM (1st April 2009) – Jane’s Navy International reported, “According to a report by the U.S. government, China's ambitions to build an aircraft carrier force are unlikely to be realised before 2015. China is continuing work to reactivate the ex-Russian carrier Varyag and interest remains in the purchase of Su-33 aircraft from Moscow.”

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, commented that the refurbishment of the ex- Varyag continues "and it is likely that the ship will emerge from Dalian in the next few years to perform, initially, a training role.”

"It has always been difficult to gauge progress in this project, given the lack of information about the original material state of the ship, but there seems little doubt that refit work is proving to be more technically demanding and time-consuming than originally intended, a situation which many other navies will find familiar.”

Saunders concluded, "Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that any indigenous programme will have been similarly delayed. As yet there are no firm indications of building at any of the major dockyards and it is quite possible that the initiation of such a prestigious project would be publicised at the time."

link

[Kartik]

the first half of 90's had grounded much of the mig-29 fleet so the flying hours at that time might not have been great. off the top of my head IAF pilots average about 180hrs/yr and I'm not sure if two pilots were alloted for the mig-29s.

right now the fulcrums are nearing the end of their service life and hence noises of upg are getting stronger. I do think(not sure) that there have been some tinkerings on the fulcrums over the years.

no tinkering for service life extension. NAL did do a study on the feasibility of a life extension for the MiG-29 fleet and found that it was possible to extend it to 4000 hours (additional 1500 hours over the original service life). that adds another 10-15 years to the MiG-29s, so they'll be in service till 2025 at most.

[chand]

1500 hrs for 10~15yrs
then 100~150hrs per year.
that means 50~75 hrs/year/pilot

[NRao]

Jane's :: Mar 16, 2009 :: Su-33 talks twist and turn as China seeks carrier-borne fighter

"It is obvious they are trying to build their version of the Su-33 or some type of carrier aeroplane, but for various reasons they cannot accomplish this on their own and whenever they reach some technological impasse they come back to us to try and learn what will get them to the next step in the design process."

[svinayak]

http://bellum.stanfordreview.org/?p=1069

Chinese Military Spending: Surprise, Surprise
March 26th, 2009
What is China up to? (Frederic J. BROWN/AFP/Getty Images)

What is China up to? (Frederic J. BROWN/AFP/Getty Images)

Historian Williamson Murray wrote in Orbis last year: “The great difficulty Americans will face in this century lies in their inability to understand the fundamental drives of those in the external world.” The alarm with which the mainstream media has greeted the release of the Pentagon’s annual report on the Chinese military, which shows increased defense spending and continued investment in “disruptive” technologies, confirms Professor Murray’s thesis on a variety of levels.

First, our national economic policy is geared to making China an equal, yet we freak out at the result. The Washington Consensus basically holds that a nation can get rich by running a trade surplus with the United States. A nation as large as China running a surplus as large as the Chinese surplus has profound implications for its status in the world, implications that we prefer to ignore. In 2000, the Clinton administration — representing the elite consensus, to be sure — supported China’s accession to the World Trade Organization. (The US posted a trade deficit with China of $20.5 billion in January 2009, after recording one of $266.3 billion for all of 2008 — the highest ever.) By increasing the size of its military, China is behaving as an equal.

Second, our diplomacy has essentially accepted that Taiwan is part of “one China,” yet we similarly freak out at the result. The Pentagon report concluded:

The PLA’s modernization vis-à-vis Taiwan has continued over the past year, including its build-up of short-range missiles opposite the island. In the near-term, China’s armed forces are rapidly developing coercive capabilities for the purpose of deterring Taiwan’s pursuit of de jure independence. These same capabilities could in the future be used to pressure Taiwan toward a settlement of the cross-Strait dispute on Beijing’s terms while simultaneously attempting to deter, delay, or deny any possible U.S. support for the island in case of conflict.

Needless to say, US policy is ambiguous to the point that American policymakers can’t even explain it, but we cannot expect our diplomatic stance not to have a consequence.

[Rahul M]

1500 hrs for 10~15yrs
then 100~150hrs per year.
that means 50~75 hrs/year/pilot

[Samay]

Jane's :: Mar 16, 2009 :: Su-33 talks twist and turn as China seeks carrier-borne fighter

"It is obvious they are trying to build their version of the Su-33 or some type of carrier aeroplane, but for various reasons they cannot accomplish this on their own and whenever they reach some technological impasse they come back to us to try and learn what will get them to the next step in the design process."

[Sanjay M]

China Shows Off New Long March 5D Rocket

[aditp]

may be OT.....but the chinki conduct is driven directly by military concerns.

China suggests it blocked India's loan efforts at ADB due to border dispute

14 Apr 2009, 2027 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN
BEIJING: The Chinese foreign ministry on Tuesday indicated it was motivated by the dispute over Arunachal Pradesh to block India's application

for a loan from the Asian Development Bank. Part of the loan money is meant for development of Arunachal, which China is claiming as its own territory.

Jiang Yu, spokeswoman for the Chinese foreign ministry, was asked at the ministry's regulator briefing on Tuesday to confirm reports that China had vetoed India's loan application and if this was done because the money is going to be spent in Arunachal Pradesh.

She did not give a direct reply but gave ample indications that China was using the ADB meeting to deal with a bilateral issue between the two countries.

Jiang said Beijing always supported ADB's efforts to play a "positive role" for the development of poor nations. She then went on to say that China was in favour of consultations for settling the border dispute with India in an amicable manner.

It is not unusual for the foreign ministry to avoid giving direct replies to questions and coach them in a manner that gives some idea of the government's thinking. Jiang's statement is noteworthy because China did not provide any reasons for its move at the ADB meeting.

The move will have deep ramifications over India-China border talks and might also affect the growing trend of the two countries working jointly on certain issues in international forums, sources said. It showed China is determined to push the debate on the border issue to the international arena instead of settling it solely in a bilateral fashion, sources said.

The move also comes at a time when China is lobbying world leaders for a larger role for itself in the International Monetary Fund and other international institutions. Analysts said the incident is bound to cause alarm bells in New Delhi, which may have to consider the long term effects of growing Chinese influence over international bodies.

The ADB was firming up its country partnership strategy for India until 2012 when Beijing came in the way. India was seeking funds for flood management, water supply and sanitation, sources said.

This is the first time that ADB's efforts to lend money to India has been blocked. India was the largest recipient of ADB funding last year after receiving $3 billion in loans.

[rkhanna]

4 Chinese AWACs
http://i42.tinypic.com/ivg506.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/ay0h0j.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/1i0j1i.jpg

[Anurag]

Arn't they suppose to be flying around the clock? What are all four doing on the ground? Oh let me guess, photo-op!

[Liu]

edited.
I'm sorry this is an Indian nationalist site and chinese propaganda won't be
allowed here.
in other things, you have been served a warning for refusing to comply with numerous requests NOT TO quote whole posts for one line answers. seriously, this can't be too hard to comply with.
Rahul.

[Anshul]

Arn't they suppose to be flying around the clock? What are all four doing on the ground? Oh let me guess, photo-op!

They look like cellphone clicks...maybe the 2+ Mega Pixel variety.Probably clicked by a passenger onboard a civilian airline.I liked the hangars...though.Easy to spot and shoot.

[Philip]

Buddhism was born in India and Tibet is Buddhist,therrefore Tibetan culture ind heritage is actually "Indian" and therefore "belongs" to India.The Chinese only respect you when you shove a bayonet up their stinkhole.

[JaiS]

From Xinhua.

Backgrounder: Brief history of China's People's Liberation Army Navy

[Lisa]

Report: Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers
https://www.usni.org/forthemedia/ChineseKillWeapon.asp
Advanced missile poses substantial new threat for U.S. Navy

In the late 80's the Russians were openly discussing capabilities of
carrying out mid-course corrections to the paths of ICBMs to help in
targeting both US carriers as well as SSBN. In discussions that I had then
with members of the RN such suggestions were not being laughed at but
understood and actively debated. The Russians also suggested that they
had the capability to scan open oceans by satellites for wake signatures of
submarines in the furtherance of this exercise.

The suggestion in the article above that this is something new is far from
the truth. I am reasonably sure that I still have the Jane's article, from 1989
that actually quote a Russian Admiral making the claims. I'll see if can find
it scan it and provide it here.

If this Chinese capability exists it is still some 20 years behind similar
endeavours by the Russians and far from something that requires a radical
reappraisal of American deployments. More to the point, the American
have already made the 'Generational Leap' that D. Rumsfeld had actively
pursued in that the deployment of THAAD on US surface ships is in the
process of invalidating complete classes of offensive weapon systems the
US is likely to face.

I am glad to see that India has take a leaf out his book (just like the
Israelis) in that the deployment of PAD will invalidate billions of dollars of
investment that both the Chinese and Pakis have made in BM at a stroke,
leaving them with both a strategic capability void and a financial write off
that I do not believe they have as yet quite understood..

[Philip]

China's dirty nuclear secrets,coming out in the open.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 122338.ece

Revolt stirs among China’s nuclear ghosts
Up to 190,000 may have died as a result of China’s weapons tests: now ailing survivors want compensation

Michael Sheridan
The nuclear test grounds in the wastes of the Gobi desert have fallen silent but veterans of those lonely places are speaking out for the first time about the terrible price exacted by China’s zealous pursuit of the atomic bomb.

They talk of picking up radioactive debris with their bare hands, of sluicing down bombers that had flown through mushroom clouds, of soldiers dying before their time of strange and rare diseases, and children born with mysterious cancers.

These were the men and women of Unit 8023, a special detachment charged with conducting atomic tests at Lop Nur in Xinjiang province, a place of utter desolation and – until now – complete secrecy.

“I was a member of Unit 8023 for 23 years,” said one old soldier in an interview. “My job was to go into the blast zone to retrieve test objects and monitoring equipment after the explosion.

“When my daughter was born she was diagnosed with a huge tumour on her spinal cord. The doctors blame nuclear fallout. She’s had two major operations and has lived a life of indescribable hardship. And all we get from the government is 130 yuan [£13] a month.”

Hardship and risk counted for little when China was determined to join the nuclear club at any cost.

Soldiers galloped on horseback towards mushroom clouds, with only gas masks for protection.

Scientists jumped for joy, waving their little red books of Maoist thought, while atomic debris boiled in the sky.

Engineers even replicated a full-scale Beijing subway station beneath the sands of the Gobi to test who might survive a Sino-Soviet armageddon.

New research suggests the Chinese nuclear tests from 1964 to 1996 claimed more lives than those of any other nation. Professor Jun Takada, a Japanese physicist, has calculated that up to 1.48m people were exposed to fallout and 190,000 of them may have died from diseases linked to radiation.

“Nuclear sands” - a mixture of dust and fission products - were blown by prevailing winds from Lop Nur towards towns and villages along the ancient Silk Road from China to the West.

The victims included Chinese, Uighur Muslims and Tibetans, who lived in these remote regions. Takada found deformed children as far away as Kazakhstan. No independent scientific study has ever been published inside China.

It is the voices of the Chinese veterans, however, that will reso-nate loudest in a nation proud of its nuclear status but ill informed about the costs. One group has boldly published letters to the state council and the central military commission - the two highest government and military bodies - demanding compensation.

“Most of us are between 50 and 70 and in bad health,” they said. “We did the most hazardous job of all, retrieving debris from the missile tests.

“We were only 10 kilometres [six miles] from the blast. We entered the zone many times with no protective suits, only goggles and gas masks. Afterwards, we just washed ourselves down with plain water.”

A woman veteran of Unit 8023 described in an interview how her hair had fallen out. She had lost weight, suffered chronic insomnia and had episodes of confusion.

“Between 1993 and 1996 the government speeded up the test programme, so I assisted at 10 underground explosions,” she said. “We had to go into the test zone to check highly radioactive instruments. Now I’m too sick to work - will the government help me?”

The price was paid by more than one generation. “My father was in Unit 8023 from 1967 to 1979, when his job was to wash down aircraft that had flown through the mushroom clouds,” said a 37-year-old man.

“I’ve been disabled by chronic immune system diseases all my life and my brother’s daughter was born with a heart defect,” he said. “Our family has spent thousands of yuan on operations over the decades. Two and three generations of our family have such illnesses - was it the nuclear tests? Does our government plan any compensation?”

In fact, the government has already responded to pressure from veterans’ groups. Last year Li Xueju, the minister of civil affairs, let slip that the state had started to pay “subsidies” to nuclear test personnel but gave no details of the amounts.

Such is the legacy of the decision by Chairman Mao Tse-tung, in 1955, to build the bomb in order to make China a great power.

Mao was driven by fear of the US and rivalry with the Soviet Union. He coveted the might that would be bestowed by nuclear weapons on a poor agricultural nation. Celebrations greeted the first test explosion on October 16, 1964.

The scientists staged a total of 46 tests around the Lop Nur site, 1,500 miles west of Beijing. Of these tests, 23 were in the atmosphere, 22 underground and one failed. They included thermonuclear blasts, neutron bombs and an atomic bomb covertly tested for Pakistan on May 26, 1990.

One device, dropped from an aircraft on November 17, 1976, was 320 times more powerful than the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima.

The last explosion in the air was in 1980, but the last underground test was not until July 29, 1996. Later that year, China signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and, once again, only the sigh of the winds could be heard in the desolation of the Gobi desert.

The financial cost remains secret, but the price of the first bomb was roughly equal to more than a third of the entire state budget for 1957 – spending that went on while at least 30m Chinese peasants died of famine and the nuclear scientists themselves lived on hardship rations.

Rare was the outsider who gained a glimpse of this huge project. One was Danny Stillman, director of technical intelligence at Los Alamos, New Mexico, home of America’s nuclear weapons. He made 10 visits to secret Chinese nuclear facilities during a period of detente and information exchange from 1990 to 2001.

“Some of the videos they showed me were of PLA [People’s Liberation Army] soldiers riding on horses - with gas masks over the noses and mouths of both the horses and the soldiers - as they were riding towards the mushroom cloud of an atmospheric surface detonation,” Stillman recalled.

“It was strange because the soldiers had swords raised above their heads as they headed for the radioactive fallout. I have always wondered how many of them survived.”

Stillman was also allowed to see the lengths to which the Chinese scientists had gone to experiment with annihilation in the desert.

Like the Americans, the Chinese placed caged live animals, tanks, planes, vehicles and buildings around test sites. Such were the remains gathered by the men and women of Unit 8302.

“The surprise to me was that they also had a full-scale Beijing subway station with all supporting utilities constructed at an undefined depth directly underneath,” said Stillman.

“There were 10,000 animals and a model of a Yangtze River bridge,” recalled Wu Qian, a scientist.

Li Yi, a woman doctor, added: “Animals placed two kilometres from the blast centre were burnt to cinders and those eight kilometres away died within a few days.”

China had borrowed Soviet blueprints and spied on the West, according to The Nuclear Express, a book by Stillman and Thomas Reed, the former US air force secretary.

It explains how China then exploited its human capital to win technological parity with the US for just 4% of the effort - 45 successful test explosions against more than 1,000 American tests.

“The Chinese nuclear weapon scientists I met . . . were exceptionally brilliant,” Stillman said.

Of China’s top 10 pioneers, two were educated at Edinburgh University - Cheng Kaijia, director of the weapons laboratory, and Peng Huan-wu, designer of the first thermonuclear bomb. Six went to college in the United States, one in France and one in Germany.

For all this array of genius, no Chinese scientist has dared to publish a study of the human toll.

That taboo has been broken by Takada, a physicist at the faculty of medicine at Sapporo University, who is an adviser on radiation hazards to the government of Japan.

He developed a computer simulation model, based on fieldwork at Soviet test sites in Kazakhstan, to calculate that 1.48m people were exposed to contamination during 32 years of Chinese tests.

Takada used internationally recognised radiation dosage measurements to estimate that 190,000 have died of cancer or leukaemia. He believes 35,000 foetuses were deformed or miscarried, with cases found as far away as Makanchi, near the Kazakh border with China.

To put his findings in perspective, Takada said China’s three biggest tests alone generated 4m times more radioactivity than the Chernobyl reactor accident of 1986. He has called the clouds of fallout “an air tsunami”.

Despite the pall of silence inside China, two remarkable proofs of the damage to health have come from official Communist party documents, dated 2007 and available on provincial websites.

One is a request to the health ministry from peasants’ and workers’ delegates in Xinjiang province for a special hospital to be built to cope with large numbers of patients who were “exposed to radiation or who wandered into the test zones by mistake”.

The other records a call by a party delegate named Xingfu for compensation and a study of “the severe situation of radiation sickness” in the county of Xiaobei, outside the oasis town of Dunhuang.

Both claims were rejected. Residents of Xiaobei report an alarming number of cancer deaths and children born with cleft palates, bone deformities and scoliosis, a curvature of the spine.

Specialists at hospitals in three cities along the Silk Road all reported a disproportionate number of cancer and leukaemia cases.

“I have read the Japanese professor’s work on the internet and I think it is credible,” said one. No cancer statistics for the region are made public.

Some memories, though, remain indelible. One man in Dunhuang recalled climbing up a mountain-side to watch a great pillar of dust swirl in from the desert.

“For days we were ordered to keep our windows closed and stay inside,” recounted another middle-aged man. “For months we couldn’t eat vegetables or fruits. Then after a while they didn’t bother with that any more.”

But they did go on testing. And the truth about the toll may never be known unless, one day, a future Chinese government allows pathologists to search for the answers in the cemeteries of the Silk Road.

The dead of Dunhuang lie in a waste ground on the fringe of the desert, at the foot of great dunes where tourists ride on camels. Tombs, cairns and unmarked heaps of earth dot the boundless sands.

By local tradition, the clothes of the deceased are thrown away at their funerals. Dresses, suits and children’s garments lie half-buried by dust around the graves.

“People don’t live long around here,” said a local man who led me to the graveyard. “Fifty, 60 - then they’re gone.”

Additional reporting: Shota Ushio in Tokyo and Imogen Morizet in Washington

[Nayak]

The chinks are moving ahead while our

a] Politicians are busy buying vote-banks
b] Defence forces busy running down desi efforts to develop defence infra
c] Babooze consuming copious amounts of chai-biskoot at taxpayers expense
d] Media hailing bollywood, slum dog millionaire success and IPL
e] Aam-Janta which has forgotten 26/11 and already swimming on a nasha of bollywood, cricket and constantly scratching their balls.

China to Unveil Nuclear Submarines
Article Tools Sponsored By
By EDWARD WONG
Published: April 21, 2009

BEIJING — A senior Chinese naval officer said that China will unveil its nuclear submarines to the public on Thursday as part of an international review of the country’s naval fleet “aimed at promoting understanding about China’s military development,” according to a report by Xinhua, the state news agency.

The appearance of the submarines, in the northeastern port city of Qingdao, would be the first time that China has publicly shown the vessels. They are among the most powerful ships in the Chinese Navy.

The officer, Vice Adm. Ding Yiping, deputy commander of the Chinese navy, told Xinhua in an interview on Monday that “suspicions about China being a ‘threat’ to world security are mostly because of misunderstandings and lack of understandings about China.”

He added: “The suspicions would disappear if foreign counterparts could visit the Chinese Navy and know about the true situations.”

The naval show comes at a time of growing confidence on the part of the Chinese military. Senior Chinese officials have said China would like to acquire an aircraft carrier to better defend its territory. The Chinese government has sent warships to pirate-infested waters off the coast of Somalia to help defend freighters against attacks.

The vessel review being held in Qingdao is part of a ceremony to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Chinese Navy. The celebration began on Monday and includes delegations from 29 countries. Of those, 14 countries will be showing 21 vessels, according to Xinhua.

The naval show, and particularly the unveiling of the nuclear submarines, could be intended to send a signal to Asian countries that are engaged with China in territorial disputes over islands and potential oil fields in the seas of East and Southeast Asia. China has had recent disputes with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines over territorial claims in those seas.

Official Chinese news organizations reported on March 20 that the government intended to bolster its naval presence in the South China Sea by sending six more patrol vessels to the region in the next three to five years. The official reason was to “curb illegal fishing.” But the announcement came after tensions with the Philippines rose in March over the disputed Nansha Islands, which the Filipino government claimed as its territory in a law passed on March 10.

The Chinese and American governments also tussled last month over a naval incident off China’s southern coast. On March 8, five Chinese vessels harassed an American surveillance ship in international waters, Pentagon officials said. The Chinese insisted that the American ship, the Impeccable, was conducting illegal surveillance in waters under China’s jurisdiction.

China’s main military concern, though, is Taiwan, the self-governing democratic island that China says must be reunited with the mainland and that the United States supports with arms sales. Some Taiwanese strongly advocate open independence, and at times China has threatened the island with violence, but relations between Beijing and Taipei have improved since the election last year of Ma Ying-jeou as president of Taiwan. Mr. Ma rejects any notion of declaring independence.

The Pentagon released a study on March 25 that said that the Chinese government is seeking weapons and technology to disrupt the traditional advantages of the American military, and that the veil of secrecy the Chinese government has thrown over its military could lead to a miscalculation or conflict between the two nations. According to the report, a main goal of China’s military buildup is to have sufficient forces on hand in the event of war across the Taiwan Strait.

In his interview with Xinhua, Admiral Ding said the naval show scheduled for Thursday in Qingdao could be disrupted by bad weather such as rain or fog.

[tripathi]

China denies claims it hacked into Pentagon computers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... uters.html

Cyber spies have broken into the Pentagon and stolen details of the new Joint Strike Fighter, the most expensive fighter jet in history, according to reports.

By Malcolm Moore in Shanghai
Last Updated: 1:39PM BST 21 Apr 2009
The $300 billion (£206bn) jet is being developed by Lockheed Martin and will be bought by eight other countries, including the UK.
However, the Wall Street Journal reported that hackers had broken into the project and siphoned off "several terabytes of data related to design and electronics systems".

[girish.r]

Hi All,

A link from China Daily WS http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009 ... 702725.htm

A Sample Excerpt:

Chinese navy's growth 'warranted'
QINGDAO, Shandong -- China's own aircraft carrier will not come as a surprise to the world, as its navy's growth in recent years was "expected and warranted", naval generals attending the celebrations to mark the force's 60th anniversary said yesterday.

Regards

[VinodTK]

From Asia Times Online: China unveils its new naval clout

[chetak]

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/china ... s/450000/0

China may build up to six aircraft carriers

C. Raja Mohan Posted: Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 at 1612 hrs IST

Quote

More recent reports suggest that Chinese leadership has taken a political decision to build not just two, but four to six aircraft carriers. For many aircraft carriers are a mere political symbol and a costly one at that.

You might agree with that proposition when a country has just one carrier. When a rising power plans to build six of them, we must recognise the arrival of a great new maritime power.

[asprinzl]

Wow....it would take normally six to ten years to master the handling of aircraft careers. To do that from scratch would probably be about ten years. Once that is accomplished, the proper training, operations doctrines and implementation structures need to be formulated to deploy career borne force. Add to that the need to train and equip six careers!!!! I guess the sixth career would be seen about thirty years from now? It is one thing to reverse engineer a two cycle diesel engine or GI Joe dolls. The aircraft career is a totally different beast. The CCP leadership are not dumb. They know that China is not ready for career operations. Even politically you would never know if the whole career force might end up in Taiwan seeking assylum. Until the PLAN can thoroughly convince the leadership, there will not be a Chinese aircraft career.

[Nayak]

China puts naval might on display

By Michael Bristow
BBC News, Qingdao


A Chinese navy soldier guards a warship at Qingdao port

China shows off naval power

China is staging a military parade to celebrate its navy's 60th anniversary - and show the world its latest warships.

A least one of the country's nuclear-powered submarines is on display at the naval parade, being held in the port city of Qingdao.

Twenty-one foreign naval vessels from 14 countries are also taking part, including the US, France and Russia.

Military analysts say the event will allow the rest of the world to see how China has developed its naval forces.

Advertisement

China has put some of its most advanced warships on display

Chinese sailors laid out a red carpet in front of the Chinese destroyer Shijiazhuang that took the country's president, Hu Jintao, out to sea for the parade.

"Both now and in the future, no matter to what extent we develop, China will never seek hegemony," state media quoted him as saying.

A total of 25 ships and 31 aircraft from the People's Liberation Army Navy were involved in the event.

graph

Joining President Hu on the destroyer were military officials from nearly 30 countries - many of whom had the chance to tour a Chinese submarine, a destroyer and a hospital ship.

Flag Lieutenant Ollie Hucker, of Britain's Royal Navy, said he was impressed with what he had seen.

"In some ways we are jealous of their capabilities," he said, adding that it was clear that China wanted to become a major naval power.

"The global high seas are somewhere they need to make sure they can protect. The sea is where most of the trade routes are," he said.

Military-to-military relations

Ordinary people also attended the parade, despite the biting wind in Qingdao.


Spectator Shi Huijuan
This is the first time the country has put on such a big parade so I really wanted to come and see it
Shi Huijuan

Carrying binoculars, they lined the city's waterfront from early in the morning to get a glimpse of the parade, most of which took place at sea out of view.

Some said they were proud to see that China now had advanced warships to match the country's growing global importance.

Shi Huijuan came from Shanghai to see the parade. "This is the first time the country has put on such a big parade so I really wanted to come and see it," she said.

China appears to have become more assertive in the waters off its coastline over recent years.

Earlier this year, five Chinese vessels were involved in a stand-off with a survey ship from the US navy off China's Hainan Island.

But the diplomatic row that followed did not stop the US from sending two ships to take part in the Qingdao parade.

"Our goal has always been to maintain and develop military-to-military relations," said a US Embassy spokesman in Beijing.

[NRao]

China's show of sea power challenges US

By Kathrin Hille in Beijing

Published: April 24 2009 03:00 | Last updated: April 24 2009 03:00

China paraded its growing naval strength yesterday, including previously unseen nuclear-powered submarines, in a military demonstration seen as a challenge to the US, the world's leading maritime nation.

To mark the 60th anniversary of the People's Liberation Army navy, a total of 52 navy vessels and aircraft were shown taking part in manoeuvres off the eastern port of Qingdao.

As naval delegations from 29 countries watched, Hu Jintao, president, also reviewed 21 foreign naval vessels.

"You could call this the coming-out party of the Chinese navy," said Bates Gill, director of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

Mr Hu sought to reassure neighbours and other countries that China would neither seek regional hegemony nor enter into an arms race. He pledged more active participation in international missions such as peacekeeping and anti-piracy moves.

China took a big step in this direction late last year by participating in a multinational anti-piracy campaign in the Gulf of Aden.

"Showing what you have can always also act as a deterrent - that's how it's seen in the US," said Mr Gill. "When the US navy takes an aircraft carrier to Hong Kong, it also tells the Chinese, have a look, you don't want to confront this."

China was now doing the same and telling the world that its navy was becoming a more capable force.

"As it is developing anti-ship missiles and quieter and more capable submarines, the PLA navy is moving towards the capability of denying the US navy access to certain waters in the region. First and foremost, that will make a potential US intervention over Taiwan riskier and more complicated," Mr Gill said.

Analysts said an incident in which, according to Washington, Chinese vessels harassed a US navy survey ship in the South China Sea last month was a sign of things to come because the PLA navy's growing power would increasingly bring it into contact with the US navy on the high seas.

David Lai, a professor at the US Army War College, said in a recent essay that China's efforts to develop its naval strength would be the most controversial part of its military expansion and modernisation.

Advocates of a strong navy "see that China has the capacity to become a global power", he said.

That aspiration dominated China's domestic presentation of the celebrations yesterday. Xinhua, the official news agency, established a discussion forum on its website where glowing patriotism and hopes of superpower status were the most common view.

Some observers saw the presentation as a signthe Communist party wanted to show an increasingly nationalist public it was advancing the country's global interests and status.

www.ft.com/asia

[chand]

Wow....it would take normally six to ten years to master the handling of aircraft careers. To do that from scratch would probably be about ten years. Once that is accomplished, the proper training, operations doctrines and implementation structures need to be formulated to deploy career borne force. Add to that the need to train and equip six careers!!!! I guess the sixth career would be seen about thirty years from now? It is one thing to reverse engineer a two cycle diesel engine or GI Joe dolls. The aircraft career is a totally different beast. The CCP leadership are not dumb. They know that China is not ready for career operations. Even politically you would never know if the whole career force might end up in Taiwan seeking assylum. Until the PLAN can thoroughly convince the leadership, there will not be a Chinese aircraft career.

It is obvious that somebody doesn't want chinese to own an AC. However,
You will still have nothing in hands thirty years later if you don't begin from scratch now. I guess chinese know that, so do everybody else.

[Gerard]

It is obvious that somebody doesn't want chinese to own an AC.

Quite understandable... after all China has shown itself to be untrustworthy, malicious, expansionist and reckless.
The Chinese carrier may possibly end up like the Chinese ballistic missile submarine, which never made a single deterrent patrol, its missiles never once within range of a single potential adversary. It will make a good backdrop for propaganda visits by Chinese leadership.

China puts naval ships on show (9 pictures)

[chand]

It is obvious that somebody doesn't want chinese to own an AC.

Quite understandable... after all China has shown itself to be untrustworthy, malicious, expansionist and reckless.
The Chinese carrier may possibly end up like the Chinese ballistic missile submarine, which never made a single deterrent patrol, its missiles never once within range of a single potential adversary. It will make a good backdrop for propaganda visits by Chinese leadership.

China puts naval ships on show (9 pictures)

Well, i hope you don't mean it, or things will go pretty ugly just like in 1962.

[p_saggu]

Well, i hope you don't mean it, or things will go pretty ugly just like in 1962.

Oh, you sorry little puppy. Still banking on 1962? Don't you have any thing newer to harp about?
Nothing is going to get ugly 'like in 62', get real kiddy boy.

[sum]

Well, i hope you don't mean it, or things will go pretty ugly just like in 1962.

Sadly (for the Chinese), the Indians have come a long way since 62 and the Chinese will be in for a rude shock if they assume that it will be a 62 like walkover again in this age( they should have got the hints from the "Chola incident" etc)

[Rahul M]

PLA did receive some "rude shocks" in the post-62 period. 1967 and 1986-87.
that explains china's relative non-belligerence in the border disputes.

[chand]

Sorry for my words. They seemed to really upset somebody. However, i think india should revenge the insult from china somehow, and then you could say that india really get over the '62. Indian should give it a try to prove yourself.

[p_saggu]

Besides, the way I see it, China still has to depend on Japan for investment in spite of Nanking. The maximum the Chinese are able to do is to huff and puff, every time a Japanese PM decides to visit Beijing, for an apology that never comes.

[andy B]

PLA did receive some "rude shocks" in the post-62 period. 1967 and 1986-87.
that explains china's relative non-belligerence in the border disputes.

Rahul firstly apologies for asking a "noobie" sort a questions but can you gimme a quick idea what these shocks were...would be great reading about them...

Cheers,
Anand.

[ChandraS]

^
1967 - The Chola Incident

1986 - The Sumdorung Chu Incident Op Checkerboard was part of this incident and its details are still classified.

[Guddu]

^
1967 - The Chola Incident

1986 - The Sumdorung Chu Incident Op Checkerboard was part of this incident and its details are still classified.

However, is it not so that after this incident we have become less "aggressive". I frequently read about Chinese border incursions and also that the Tibetan Border Force has restrictions placed on it (as I recall they are not allowed near the border)...am I misremembering ?.

[chand]

Besides, the way I see it, China still has to depend on Japan for investment in spite of Nanking. The maximum the Chinese are able to do is to huff and puff, every time a Japanese PM decides to visit Beijing, for an apology that never comes.

i am not sure what you are talking about, anything concerning japan? From my point of view, india and china should have an arm race and a big war, to prove who is the boss in there. wow, it is chilly, hard to wait.

[ChandraS]

i am not sure what you are talking about, anything concerning japan? From my point of view, india and china should have an arm race and a big war, to prove who is the boss in there.

chand, the bolded part is pretty much a flame bait seeking to incite a few rash responses from the members here. I have already reported your post for flame baiting.

*** This poster seems intent to derail any sane discussion and incite a few jingos to respond harshly leading to admin warnings and bans. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL***

[Rahul M]

@ chand,
we all appreciate your foreign policy advices but all such posts should go to appropriate threads in strat forum. to others, don't reply in this thread.
thanks for co-operation.