China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 29 Jul 2009 02:40

Ajit.C wrote:Found this rediff.com

Tanks in Sikkim not sign of tension with China, says Tharoor
"It is not a sign of mounting tension....it is a sign that your government is determined to protect the borders of India and takes its responsibilities seriously," Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor [ Images ] said in Thiruvananthpuram while reacting to media reports on the matter.

"There is no additional tension (between India and China). We want good relations with our neighbours. But we are prepared to ensure that our borders and country are secure,"Tharoor added. Army officials in Delhi [ Images ] said the Russian-made T-72 tanks have been deployed in high altitude areas of North Sikkim for many years in defensive roles. "A squadron of the tanks has been there in high altitude areas in North Sikkim for many years now and it is part of our defensive plans. Earlier we used to have our T-55 tanks there and around three years ago, they were replaced by a squadron of T-72s, which are heavier tanks," they said. They said that no tanks have been deployed in the locality called 'Finger area', which is a one kilometre stretch of land on the border with China.


Perhaps some factions within the PLAN are getting fidgety.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Paul » 29 Jul 2009 02:58

In the “Red Coats to Olive Green – Story of the Indian army” the author states that the army started monitoring the checkposts in Ladakh in 1959…a full 4 years after the Chinese courteously informed us that they were laying a road west of the McMohan line.
Until then these checkposts were manned by the CRPF.

The extent of Army presence in Leh was one battalion only which was increased to a brigade strength.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby RKumar » 31 Jul 2009 19:01


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 01 Aug 2009 04:05


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Ankit Desai » 09 Aug 2009 20:58


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby dipak » 10 Aug 2009 12:41

China should break up India: Chinese strategist

Sounds some TSPian wrote it masquerading as Chinese source.
'If China takes a little action, the so-called Great Indian Federation can be broken up' (Zhong Guo Zhan Lue Gang, http://www.iiss.cn, Chinese, August 8, 2009).


According to the article, if India today relies on any thing for unity, it is the Hindu religion. The partition of the country was based on religion. Stating that today nation states are the main current in the world, it has said that India could only be termed now as a 'Hindu religious state'. Adding that Hinduism is a decadent religion as it allows caste exploitation and is unhelpful to the country's modernisation, it described the Indian government as one in a dilemma with regard to eradication of the caste system as it realises that the process to do away with castes may shake the foundation of the consciousness of the Indian nation.


Wishing for India's break-up into 20 to 30 nation-States like in Europe, the article has concluded by saying that if the consciousness of nationalities in India could be aroused, social reforms in South Asia can be achieved, the caste system can be eradicated and the region can march along the road of prosperity.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby vavinash » 10 Aug 2009 12:51

The launch of arihant has already stunned them. Wait till A-3Sl comes online. They will be frothing like rabid dogs.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Khalsa » 11 Aug 2009 06:01

dipak wrote:China should break up India: Chinese strategist

Sounds some TSPian wrote it masquerading as Chinese source.
'If China takes a little action, the so-called Great Indian Federation can be broken up' (Zhong Guo Zhan Lue Gang, http://www.iiss.cn, Chinese, August 8, 2009).


According to the article, if India today relies on any thing for unity, it is the Hindu religion. The partition of the country was based on religion. Stating that today nation states are the main current in the world, it has said that India could only be termed now as a 'Hindu religious state'. Adding that Hinduism is a decadent religion as it allows caste exploitation and is unhelpful to the country's modernisation, it described the Indian government as one in a dilemma with regard to eradication of the caste system as it realises that the process to do away with castes may shake the foundation of the consciousness of the Indian nation.


Wishing for India's break-up into 20 to 30 nation-States like in Europe, the article has concluded by saying that if the consciousness of nationalities in India could be aroused, social reforms in South Asia can be achieved, the caste system can be eradicated and the region can march along the road of prosperity.

LOL

What a looney. This article will only serve to strengthen the unbreakable.
Seems like he is trying to appease his commie food handlers.

nations with religious and cultural backgrounds have a stronger backbone than the santised communist Nations.
How many of these commie nations remaining ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ss_roy » 11 Aug 2009 07:21

I think they should try. :twisted: The quickest way for a nation to destroy itself is through overextension and fighting on different fronts at the same time.

China's problems are now existential (far beyond military soultions). Their mental rigidity is going to kill them, but the show will be good.

Essentially they are trying to be a mercantile civilization in a post-industrial world. They have a bad population profile (+ too many males) and lack the mental flexibility to fix their economic problems. Look at japan.. they have been in recession since 1989, and they could have fixed their problems easily (but the east-asian mind is too dogmatic).

China should break up India: Chinese strategist

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 11 Aug 2009 07:48

China will NEVER try.

It will ALWAYS get someone else to try.

China has pretty much failed coaxing Pakistan to do her biding, so I suspect this is an article from the bad guys within China to show the good guys in China that the bad guys still exist and have a voice.

Before China deals with India I would think they would try their might on Vietnam (and perhaps get their fingers burnt again - and declare victory anyways).

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manjgu » 11 Aug 2009 09:35

i think it will be foolish to underestimate the chinese capability to make trouble. they are not a bunch of looneys like the pakis. when they will decide, they will make meticulous preparation, planning and come with force. they are very focussed and patient. it is time our national leaders woke up , correctly assessed the threat and made similar preparations.

with people of similar stock , china is definetly a more homogenous country. I dont know how can one deny that?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VikB » 11 Aug 2009 10:27

I have an observation. A guy who goes to the gym is the first one to notice and get concerned about the bulging biceps of another person. Chinnie have a morbid fascination for tanks, taups, submarines and what not. They are collecting all the toys faster than anyone else. With this mentality, even a slight show of strength from the Indian side sends them scurrying. Arihant and Agni XX have surely made the panda eat the humble bamboo.

The recent tickle by the US in the Xingjiang region has made them uncomfortable too. Sure their 'string of pearls' strategy for us looks threatening, yet it seems it is the Panda that is afraid that its forest will be set on fire from all sides. We have to know how to harnass this fear of our dear neighbour and the distrust that he is brewing all over against itself. Even if we maintain defensive capabilities against China, it will be they who will get mauled for they cant afford to lose. Ofcourse a few karate chops on its face will be all the more welcome and atleast some of our own toys are much capable of doing this.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Drevin » 11 Aug 2009 10:43

Indian products like Nirbhay, IAC, Arjun, lch, indian slcm/slbm, mirv should do a good job of creating massive paranoia in the chinese stablishment. What they(chinese) have achieved pales in comparison to what we have managed to do in short time. Its just a matter of time before the indian defence forces quality overtakes the chinese quantity. We are on the right path. Critical to our march towards self reliance in military technology is to retain or stress on maintaining good relations with our existing partners and forge new relationships with many more. Our pace of integration into the global military supplier market will have proportional effects on our indigenous capabilities.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ksmahesh » 11 Aug 2009 14:39

manjgu wrote:i think it will be foolish to underestimate the chinese capability to make trouble. they are not a bunch of looneys like the pakis. when they will decide, they will make meticulous preparation, planning and come with force. they are very focussed and patient. it is time our national leaders woke up , correctly assessed the threat and made similar preparations.

with people of similar stock , china is definetly a more homogenous country. I dont know how can one deny that?


No problems let them come. We will make nice panda kebab. This is NOT 1962. Why do you fail to remember that they tried to repeat 1962 in 1967 but got solid kick on bum.....

That defeat in Nathula in 1967 kept them away for more than 42 years. Let them come on this time. Brahmos et al will make a nice chinese soya sauce.

They too realise this and the only aim of recently propagated bravado is to weaken Indian morale. How foolish of them...

Perhaps they will soon face Indian Su30MKI armed with Brahmos from Himalayas to Indian ocean.

Who wants some of the Panda Kebab I shall pass on the plate.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Drevin » 11 Aug 2009 15:21

VikB wrote:Arihant and Agni XX have surely made the panda eat the humble bamboo.


:mrgreen: Let me add to that wonderful statement.

Thats what happens when a panda sees a royal bengal tiger. :wink:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Nihat » 11 Aug 2009 15:31

All that is very nice but everyone recognizes that there is bitter truth in Admiral Mehtas words - we don't lack in modern technology and the Chinese know that , as you correctly pointed out that MKI , Brahmos , AWACS et all are very significant force multipliers.

The Chinks would have taken that into consideration , their intention may well be to come out with a short burst on the ground , capture desired territory and subsequently bargain with our babus into a Sharam-el-sheikh kind of surrender.

The rot has set in at the base of our military , the artillery guns , roads , local intelligence , border surveillance etc, I'm afraid not enough noise is made to awake these babus out of the slumber , our media is driven by paranoia at times and content is seriously sacrificed for sensationalism , vijay diwas celebrations were just to play on the emotional angle of citizens and gain instant TRP's.

Where is the opposition when we need it , I've grown wary of trying to contact our local MP and occasionally BJP leaders to sit on head of our MoD babus by questioning the defence minister regularly on status of our artillery and other military related issues , it has never rung a bell and probably never will.

We take our armed forces for granted because they are disciplined and duty-bound , the Chinks on the contrary have planned in every sphere and mark my words that when the time comes these roads and rail and guns will be the ultimate factor much ahead of advanced weaponry that we have.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ksmahesh » 11 Aug 2009 16:48

Ajatshatru wrote:And even if economic development takes a slight backseat for next 5 years, raising GDP on defence to 5% should perhaps be a few immediate steps in the right direction....India just cannot afford to lose any more land (after losing POK, Aksai Chin, parts of Nefa etc) in another war....In fact, our short term planning should be to wrest back POK and long term planning include independence of Tibet (so Tibet can once again serve as a buffer between India and China) and our defence expenditure and preparation planned accordingly....



Could not agree with you more but this asymmetry was even more pronounced in 1967 when Chinese got bloody nose.

Vivek Ahuja did a comprehensive analysis and the number of aircrafts available with the payload capacity on chinese and Indian side.

The difference was not all that sharp. More over if chinese attack then we shall have added advantage of friendly SAMs on ground.

For sure I am not happy with the our current force levels more so to regain Aksai chin and Shashgam valley and we have miles to go but still I am sure that Chinese also realise that a war on Indian territory shall be equally bloody for them.

Hence all of the hot air.

All that we need is an ever elusive dhotiwala with balls and rest will all in place...

Yes the devil is in details but the situation is not that bad if you read the fine print on our side....

Admiral is correct in stating the obvious difference in the force levels but we need to take into account the Chinese shall be fighting in Indian ocean away from their country and we have two "Unsinkable Aircraft carriers" in Andamans and Lakshdweep.

So I say let them try misadventure, this time IAF will make a mince meat of Panda. I wish we have MMRCA before diwali begins.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Akshut » 11 Aug 2009 16:56

Wow!! You guys just lost the moot point. :x .

Where in the article is the Chinese saying that they should attack India militarily?
I don't see it anywhere. If someone else does, then kindly point me there.

He emphasizes on the same 'divide-and-rule' policy, which was adapted by the British. Ditto same. Divide them on their linguistic and cultural differences, and then rule over all of them.
He talked about supporting Kashmiris, Assamesse, Tamils, and so on....
Heck he pointed directly at supporting ULFA through Bangladesh.
I have no doubt that China is doing that even now(supporting ULFA). So where are those BrahMos and Sukhois when reports come out of Chinese weapons in the hands of Kashmiri and ULFA militants?

The threat is strategic not military.

The right counter for India would be to support Xingiang's militias, than showing that we have AWACS and Agnis.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 11 Aug 2009 17:14

The right counter for India would be to support Xingiang's militias, than showing that we have AWACS and Agnis.


The right counter would be to reduce their influence in the sub-continent.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Nitesh » 11 Aug 2009 17:35


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 11 Aug 2009 18:40



A problem still persists: while it is not alarming India is not active enough to be prepared, enough to be slightly alarmed, because she is not prepared ............................

Anyways, the best news is that the two nations have decided to whoop it up next year for their 60th aniv of diplomatic relations. bring out the tea.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Drevin » 11 Aug 2009 19:09

The problem of China will always be there.

The solution is very simple, deterrence. Make sure they never feel like venturing into our land thru nuclear deterrence.

Why do we need to match their quantity?? India's solution is quality. nuclear triad is the answer.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby RayC » 11 Aug 2009 22:59

China's military launches long-range war games

China's military launched war games Tuesday aimed at deploying forces at long distances, reflecting moves to ensure security in the restive western regions of Tibet and Xinjiang.

By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN

Associated Press Writer
BEIJING —

China's military launched war games Tuesday aimed at deploying forces at long distances, reflecting moves to ensure security in the restive western regions of Tibet and Xinjiang.

The exercises will send 50,000 armored troops - the People's Liberation Army's "largest-ever tactical military exercise" - to unfamiliar areas far from their bases for two months of live-fire drills, state media reported.

The exercises involve four brigades from the major military regions of Shenyang, Lanzhou, Jinan and Guangzhou, which all will be deployed at least 750 miles (1,200 kilometers) from their bases, the reports said.

Such deployments would be needed to reinforce units in Tibet and Xinjiang, where security forces have battled renewed ethnic conflict and anti-government violence over the past two years.

China also continues to claim territory along its remote border with India over which the two fought a short but bloody border war more than 45 years ago. Its navy, meanwhile, has grown increasingly assertive in defending territorial claims in the South China Sea.

"In the unprecedented exercise, one of the PLA's major objectives will be to improve its capacity of long-range projection," the official Xinhua News Agency said. It said the war games constituted the army's "largest-ever tactical military exercise," although numbers of troops involved were relatively small................

Wargame and Exercises


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 12 Aug 2009 00:07

Humbling of civilizations is assured - no matter how much money they have or spend. A couple of natural disasters back to back is all it takes - this cycle will begin very soon.

The India has nothing to worry

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Prem » 12 Aug 2009 02:39

Khalsa wrote:
dipak wrote:China should break up India: Chinese strategist

Sounds some TSPian wrote it masquerading as Chinese source.
]

India should send big Tribute to this scholar , Vicco Vajardanti and bundle of Neem Datun. China remains ignorant of India and Indians.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VikB » 12 Aug 2009 10:08

"Split India, says Chinese think-tank" article has come in today's Mumbai TOI.

I kind of like such articles. I feel in our country things fall in place when they are made public. It is till things are a 'known secret' that the dhoti waallahs and babus enjoy and keep sleeping on it but once things become 'public', rest assured the quinessential theory of 'democracy' makes them work overtime. And we have seen that when they actually get down to 'work', some serious stuff does comes out.

Till 1962 we were fooled by the hindi-chini bhai bhai sh*t. That was what fooled us for the public was unaware of the actual developments on the border and international scenario. The 1962 whack made all sit up and the next 1965, 1971 wars saw us giving a much better response.

Frankly we need many more such articles. Let our press publish the China military exercise in big bold letters on the front page. Let the common man on the street ask questions about security. Let the common man feel the fear of being anhiliated in a big massive nuclear strike by our dear neighbours. I have the faith that the day this happens - when the common man knows the danger of the nuclear world, our system will have no other way but to act.

As such let us at BR also give lot of mileage to such news. Let us keep them at the top of the news page. I suggest that if any of us here have the capability, to plant articles in newspapers and internet about the threat that we as a nation face. All the current hype will die down soon and then once again the dhotis will go to their shrivelled levels. Let us try to keep the broth hot.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby PratikDas » 12 Aug 2009 10:21

Patrick Cusack wrote:Humbling of civilizations is assured - no matter how much money they have or spend. A couple of natural disasters back to back is all it takes - this cycle will begin very soon.

The India has nothing to worry

Are you referring to the lack of rain affecting a quarter of India?

Please, lets not rely on natural disasters to take care of our threats. We might as well resort to astrology for the most auspicious date to hurl a rock across the border and hope for the best.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ovein » 12 Aug 2009 10:24

Coupled This with what our navy chief Suresh Mehta is saying

"Don’t have capability or intention to match China force for force: Navy chief"
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Don-t ... ef/500573/

not sure what he actually wants to point out and under what circumstances he told that. But the China front is getting dangerous with the time.

In a second thought, i think the above dossier of dividing china might also be a psyops from the china, deliberate attepmt to keep india on its toe.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby SwamyG » 12 Aug 2009 10:50

Prem wrote: India should send big Tribute to this scholar , Vicco Vajardanti and bundle of Neem Datun. China remains ignorant of India and Indians.

Yes, I keep laughing how folks keep mentioning Tamil nation - the way they factor this into their propaganda makes my sides really hurt. Except for some fringe elements tamil nadu is part and parcel of India. Either they do not know India, or just inserting poision in the minds - which is what I think they aim to do. An average tamilian is bound to have enough tamil pride and still wear chuddi dhars from the north.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 12 Aug 2009 11:00

Either they do not know India,

SG, it is just that. look at the way the 'scholar' has mentioned the names of various communities, tamils, bangalis, asomiya etc etc, it is just an echo of the chaudhry rahmat ali doctrine that pakistan has tried to implement fruitlessly since independence.
if the PRC chooses to believe and implement it, it will be repeating the mistakes.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VikB » 12 Aug 2009 11:14

SwamyG wrote:
Prem wrote: India should send big Tribute to this scholar , Vicco Vajardanti and bundle of Neem Datun. China remains ignorant of India and Indians.

Yes, I keep laughing how folks keep mentioning Tamil nation - the way they factor this into their propaganda makes my sides really hurt. Except for some fringe elements tamil nadu is part and parcel of India. Either they do not know India, or just inserting poision in the minds - which is what I think they aim to do. An average tamilian is bound to have enough tamil pride and still wear chuddi dhars from the north.


I went to Matunga in Mumbai the other day. I swear we really have a Tamil Nation in the making right in the heart of the city. Ditto for Subroto park in Dilli for the Bangla land. I am sure the writer of the article has done lot of research on India and knows it inside out :mrgreen:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby dipak » 12 Aug 2009 11:47

Prem wrote:
dipak wrote:China should break up India: Chinese strategist

Sounds some TSPian wrote it masquerading as Chinese source.
]
India should send big Tribute to this scholar , Vicco Vajardanti and bundle of Neem Datun. China remains ignorant of India and Indians.

:)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 12 Aug 2009 21:33


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 12 Aug 2009 21:54

Please bare few things in mind; nothing comes out of China with out the blessing of the Communist party and / or the PLA. What is important here is one India’s enemy's is thinking of doing India in, and they are taunting the Indian republic by openly saying what they’re thinking.

Smart people do not taunt others unless they are able to back up their actions and words with force, and China is no fool. It would be wise for India to pay attention to these early signs and be prepared to make it very difficult for the Chinese to feel so cocky.

India might not be week; however most of the wars take place because the other side thinks its enemies are week. India needs to work overtime to remove the Chinese perception of India being a week Republic that can be broken up.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 13 Aug 2009 01:28

I went to Matunga in Mumbai the other day. I swear we really have a Tamil Nation in the making right in the heart of the city. Ditto for Subroto park in Dilli for the Bangla land.


Last time I checked Tamil was in India.

Did they too move out of the country - like BD?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 13 Aug 2009 01:30

VikB,

It is one thing for a Chinese to include "Tamils" in a plot to break up India (I actually think the dimwit Chinese was thinking of Tamils from SL).

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajsunder » 13 Aug 2009 02:27

SwamyG wrote:
Prem wrote: India should send big Tribute to this scholar , Vicco Vajardanti and bundle of Neem Datun. China remains ignorant of India and Indians.

Yes, I keep laughing how folks keep mentioning Tamil nation - the way they factor this into their propaganda makes my sides really hurt. Except for some fringe elements tamil nadu is part and parcel of India. Either they do not know India, or just inserting poision in the minds - which is what I think they aim to do. An average tamilian is bound to have enough tamil pride and still wear chuddi dhars from the north.

looks like the author got some suggestions from his paki rabid dogs.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 13 Aug 2009 02:30

"The launch of arihant has already stunned them. Wait till A-3Sl comes online. They will be frothing like rabid dogs."

What is A-3SI?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 13 Aug 2009 03:05

Patrick Cusack wrote:"The launch of arihant has already stunned them. Wait till A-3Sl comes online. They will be frothing like rabid dogs."

What is A-3SI?


SL, Not SI


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