China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manjgu » 27 Sep 2009 21:03

well after some serious googling i have the following info..

as per 2004 figures 90% of chinese oil is carried by foreign ships which probably cant be interdicted... !!??
I could not get 2009 figures..

70% of energy needs met by coal. 20% by oil

of this 20% needs ( 46 % met by imports) and 90% of this is carried by foriegn shipping.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 28 Sep 2009 01:15

"Chinese strategic reseves approx 100 Mil B ..to be upped to 280 Mil B by 2011 ( 2009 fig)
Daily import of 3.6 Mil B ( 2009 figures)" - China does not need a strategic reserve because they have enough oil fields on land that defense can commandeer.

China

China's strategic reserves began being built in 2004, when leaders in China began to realize that the country had no adequate government-controlled reserves to combat any disruptions in the supply of oil. China is a large importer and is dependent on the same sources of foreign oil as the United States. China is even more anxious to build such a reserve, as two of its neighbors, Korea and Japan, both have large strategic reserves.

China currently has four government reserves with a total reserve potential of 272 million barrels, which translates to about 30 days' consumption. Two of the four have been confirmed full, and there are rumors that all four are and that China has taken advantage of the recent precipitous drop in the price of oil to buy up. According to Chinese government sources, however, the reserves are likely not to be completely full until 2010, and 2009 buying of oil will be at around 42 million barrels.

The government has also announced plans to increase the country's reserve from 30 to 100 days of consumption. The next stage of the development will call for an additional 170 million barrels in eight storage facilities. The locations of the facilities are as yet secret.

China:
In an emergency, China would likely turn to Russia to buy oil, though only the naive would be surprised if Russia added a premium for the privilege.

Scenarios that could force a sustained drawdown of reserves in China:

* Worldwide embargo on China due to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
* High oil prices force Chinese industries out of business, pressuring the government to keep oil prices low domestically by selling some of the reserves to domestic companies.
* North Korea asks for oil from China to support military action on the Korean Peninsula, and China ships it to them on the black market.
* Russia slows or stops its exports as part of the Russian "dominance via energy" strategy, leaving Chinese pipelines trickling and Chinese industries disrupted.

Summary of Reserve Data as of 2008 Country
Reserves Production Reserve life
Saudi Arabia 267 42.4 10.2
Canada 179 28.5 3.3
China 16 2.5 3.9
India According to Oil & Gas Journal (OGJ),
India had 5.6 billion barrels of proven oil reserves as of January 2009,

India

India has a small reserve it began to build in 2004. This stockpile is sufficient for perhaps only two weeks of consumption. The country eventually wants to raise this level to 45 days, though the first phase has not even been completed yet. The projects are estimated to come online in 2012, which means it has taken eight years from planning to completion. These figures imply that India will not even have a somewhat sufficient strategic reserve until 2016, given that the expansion project was approved in 2008.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sumeet_s » 28 Sep 2009 03:45

Patrick Cusack wrote:China does not need a strategic reserve because they have enough oil fields on land that defense can commandeer.


Not that china does not need a strategic reserve...its in their interest to stockpile the same...
and by oil fields if you mean the production fields, then its not at all enough for them what they have currently...with their current production level, their proved reserves can last for next 11 years only...

Patrick Cusack wrote:Two of the four have been confirmed full, and there are rumors that all four are


All four reserves have been filled up in the 1st half of 2009.
Reserves are in Zhenhai, Huangdao, Dalian and Zhoushan.

Patrick Cusack wrote:Summary of Reserve Data as of 2008 Country
Reserves Production Reserve life
Saudi Arabia 267 42.4 10.2
Canada 179 28.5 3.3
China 16 2.5 3.9


the data above is a bit wrong..
it is
---------------Reserves - Production - Reserve life
Saudi Arabia--- 264 - 10.84 - 66.5
Canada------- 28.6 - 3.23 - 24.1
China--------- 5.8 - 3.79 - 11.1

Reserves- in billion barrels
Production- in million barrels per day
Reserve life- in years.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 28 Sep 2009 06:27

just a few quick points.

> I haven't said intercepting oil supply is the only objective. PRC SLOCs through this route carries the maritime trade from europe, africa and west asia. oil is only one component of this trade.

> intercepting coal import is not an option as most(or all) of china's coal import is from australia, that route doesn't pass through IOR.

> while sinking foreign ships carrying goods to china is not an option, these can be prevented from completing their supply runs. deciding which ships are headed for or from china is more involved but AFAIK that information is available from civilian shipping channels.

p.s. guys, do post the links else it is tantamount to copyright violation and gerard may have you for dinner.
:twisted:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Katare » 28 Sep 2009 08:28

IMO, this kind of blocking/harresment was possible and useful in WW2 type long drawn wars. 21st centruy wars would most likely be short intense wars where sealine blocking would not work or would be of little value.

A big power like US can completely blockoff and starve a smaller power like say Pakistan for 6month. India may be able to substantially block a port or two on Paksiatns shoreline for extanded period of time but that's about it.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 28 Sep 2009 08:55

Gawdar port will play a part in protecting Chinas oil supply from ME and source of major naval defeat and embarrassment for India.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sumeet_s » 28 Sep 2009 12:52

Nearly 48% of Pakistan's total land area is balochistan...
and the gwadar port doesn't go well with the balochis as they think they are being kept out of the benefits and also that the money would be used for development of other regions than balochistan.....
Pakistan even had to field frontier corps for the security of the port following attacks on Chinese officials in 2004.
Balochis have even found al-qaeda come for their support, pak being the common enemy...as al-qaeda seeks to take revenge of Pak support for US war on terror....

would love to see a massive uprising and the whole project sabotaged :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 28 Sep 2009 13:32

Katare wrote:IMO, this kind of blocking/harresment was possible and useful in WW2 type long drawn wars. 21st centruy wars would most likely be short intense wars where sealine blocking would not work or would be of little value.

A big power like US can completely blockoff and starve a smaller power like say Pakistan for 6month. India may be able to substantially block a port or two on Paksiatns shoreline for extanded period of time but that's about it.

katare sahab, I agree it is not a silver bullet. but it is a strong leverage if we play our hands well.

Patrick Cusack wrote:Gawdar port will play a part in protecting Chinas oil supply from ME and source of major naval defeat and embarrassment for India.

how ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby nrshah » 28 Sep 2009 13:43

Patrick Cusack wrote:Gawdar port will play a part in protecting Chinas oil supply from ME and source of major naval defeat and embarrassment for India.


I believe you have considered a scenario where we will take on Chinese without taking care of TSP. It is not going to be as such. Any blockade on Chini merchant / oil ships will be employed only after sanitizing Arabian sea. If Gwadar port will have chinese ships, IN can fire on them directly. In case not, than PNS will be there to escort Oil supplies. Now, when IN interferes with oil ships, PNS will take appropriate measures dragging us to fire on them too which will lead to attack on gwadar too.

The issue is we allowed PNS to come to state where we cannot dare to initiate a war. Whether the Chinese will do the same with is something to be looked upon..

-Nitin

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 28 Sep 2009 14:23

have you gentlemen given thought to the fact that baluchistan also happens to have some of the most active US military bases in pakistan ? does not look like an ideal base for china in the near future.

secondly, due to distances and time involved in transit any chinese flotilla in gwadar would have to be self sufficient and able to take care of itself against IAF and IN forces. does PLAN have enough to go around ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manjgu » 28 Sep 2009 16:40

the % of chinese fuel supply carried by chinese ships is so miniscule, that its disruption will at best be an irritant

can IN sink fuel laden chinese ships .. no .... then how are these ships to be commandeered and escorted back to indian waters...

nobody is talking about how long will the blockade be enforced... ??

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 28 Sep 2009 17:00

why don't you try read the responses first and then reply ?

it would be easier for all of us.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Nikhil T » 29 Sep 2009 06:11

X-posting from Indian Naval thread
----------------------------------------
Another 'intentional' leak maybe from the Military leadership.... The article talks about the reporter having access to sensitive pics of China's Varyag's undergoing refit as also the ski-jump installation in one of its airbases. Another info is that a Su-27 family aircraft is likely to operate off the carrier.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4683/picture2gu.jpg
Last edited by Rahul M on 29 Sep 2009 06:19, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please do not post large images inline.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sanjchopra » 29 Sep 2009 06:35


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby negi » 29 Sep 2009 06:54

Dong Feng-21 is a ballistic missile and that speed of mach 10 is most probably the speed of the last stage during its final phase of the ballistic trajectory ,pretty common for all ballistic missiles.
US carrier task force is accompanied by Ticonderoga class cruisers and Arleigh Burke class destroyers both are equipped with the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System which should be able to take out DF-21 class threats pretty comfortably; infact Sunburn imo should be a more tricky prospect (even here USN has been testing its CIWS against RU Kh-31 missiles ).

As for the Chinese Carrier programme well they might be able to patch up the Varyag but they are no way close to the IN in terms of the decades of experience in operating and conducting war games employing an Aircraft Carrier.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gagan » 29 Sep 2009 07:07

I think the varyag will be more like the Xia N sub. Used mostly for training and operating around the chinese mainland until china can build a brand new one for itself.

I don't agree with the author there that the viraat is inferior. The viraat has the barak, and a very good CIWS suite, which I am sure that the chinese upgraded varyag will not be able to compete with.
The Su-27 is a formidable fighter, but the IN has upgraded harriers with BVR missiles. Difficult to say who's the outright winner. The varyag scores in having a much larger air wing due to its size, a feature the viraat, and for that matter the vikrant won't be able to compete with.

But technologically, IN ships are at par or are ahead.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 29 Sep 2009 07:11

I'm extremely doubtful of the efficacy of a BM to be used in anti-ship role, unless it is nuclear armed.
but the chinese do come up with interesting ideas for the shashou jian doctrine.

varyag should eventually be a much more capable platform, provided PLAN trains its **** off for the next 3-4 years. gagan, SHARs are not really comparable to the sukhois.

incidentally, will PLAN use su-33 or a version of J-11 for use on the AC ? I know they showed interest in the su-33 but did the deal move further ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gagan » 29 Sep 2009 07:15

I thought they already had the Su-33s for the Varyag.

Question is, can they modify the J-10 for carrier ops?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Yogi_G » 29 Sep 2009 07:18

The Su-27 is a formidable fighter, but the IN has upgraded harriers with BVR missiles. Difficult to say who's the outright winner.


British sidewinder equipped Harrier victorious engagements with Argentine Mirages in the Falklands conflict show that it all boils down to training and better equipment, with many many years of fielding an AC and its complement of fighters I believe the IN has an edge here.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gagan » 29 Sep 2009 07:26

The harrier's vectored thrust and low speeds are a strength of its own.

But this did not seem to work against the french when they brought the Charles de gaulle with the rafales to exercise with the IN harriers. The harriers didn't have BVR then, and the rafales would shoot them down the moment the harriers were launched off the ski jump.

I wonder how that exercise will pan out now, that both have BVR.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 29 Sep 2009 07:47

just checked, wiki says the su-33 deal fell through. add the recent russian decision to go with the mig-29k I think that's that.

J-10 should be doable, it already sports canards so should be possible to reduce take-off/landing speed with flaps etc. for ski-jumping fighters, pilots don't go on full throttle on landing unlike catapulted ones, so the landings/take-offs are less violent.

SHARs are really long in the tooth, they are not remotely competitive against a modern fighter of the sukhoi's class. even with the LUSH upgrade with 2032 radars, ECM suites to BVRAAMs (derby is only 50 km ranged) are still behind.

yogi_g, FAA fighters were operating a long way from base at the end of their fuel reserves. also, the SHARs were of a much recent vintage in 1982, FAA fighers were from 50's and 60's design vintage. even then, RAF/RN never had air superiority over falklands.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Yogi_G » 29 Sep 2009 20:32

yogi_g, FAA fighters were operating a long way from base at the end of their fuel reserves. also, the SHARs were of a much recent vintage in 1982, FAA fighers were from 50's and 60's design vintage. even then, RAF/RN never had air superiority over falklands


right Rahul. They had very little loiter time in which they could not achieve pretty much anything. I wonder if this fact kept playing in the minds of the FAA fighter pilots in that they dint want a long haul dogfight and attempted radical things which involved risk but would end the duel real quick. I think it was on the extreme machines program in discovery which featured the harrier in which it was mentioned that the designers of Harrier keenly watched the battles in Falkland because they were convinced that the Mirages in possession of FAA was much more agile and maneuverable than the Harrier and would outfly them. But with effective use of the sidewinders and good dogfighting skills acquired through excellent training the Harrier pilots came out on top.
The harrier's vectored thrust and low speeds are a strength of its own


This point made me wonder, would the Harrier pilots be able to use the directional thrust in a dog fight? As far as I know the thrust nozzle direction in the Harrier is manually controlled by the pilot unlike as in the more modern TVC aircraft today where there are major computer inputs. I will go look into this but correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gagan » 29 Sep 2009 20:38

IN SHARs have been really flogged by the IN. You can see that on close in pics even. The metal must be all stressed out.

Yes I remember reading a picture book on the Harrier where its dog fighting skills were spoken about in detail. This was attributed to it being able to use thrust vectoring form the 4 engine exhausts. But these were modified exhausts that the US marines had on its sea harriers.

The SHARs really gave it to the Eff solahs in the US marines study

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rohitvats » 29 Sep 2009 21:05

Gagan wrote:The harrier's vectored thrust and low speeds are a strength of its own.

But this did not seem to work against the french when they brought the Charles de gaulle with the rafales to exercise with the IN harriers. The harriers didn't have BVR then, and the rafales would shoot them down the moment the harriers were launched off the ski jump.

I wonder how that exercise will pan out now, that both have BVR.


Gagan, IIRC I also read in a report filed by the French Navy that the IN SHAR were quite 'exceptional' in WVR and crews quite excel at it. it did mention in passing that SHAR lack the BVR envelope.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Baldev » 29 Sep 2009 22:26

Rahul M wrote:just checked, wiki says the su-33 deal fell through. add the recent russian decision to go with the mig-29k I think that's that.

SHARs are really long in the tooth, they are not remotely competitive against a modern fighter of the sukhoi's class. even with the LUSH upgrade with 2032 radars, ECM suites to BVRAAMs (derby is only 50 km ranged) are still behind

actually su33 production line is closed there is need to spend extra money just to create production line for su33 but one the other hand russians have production line open for mig29k which will produce 30 more migs with aesa radar so its logical that russians will go with mig29k for RN instead of su33 and won't spend extra just to create and redevelop su33 like they did with mig29k and mig29k is smaller and cheaper to operate.

NIIR ZHUK MSFE radar comparable to BARS had been tested on SU33UB which also has TVC.

you are right about SHAR ,when looking at the nose cone of SHAR which is comparable to the nose cone of mig21, elta2032 when fitted to mig21 gives range of 46 km against 5^sq and can engage one target at a time with derby

it would have been better to fit SHARs with kopyo M radar and R77 because kopyo M can be fitted to mig21 so it can also be fitted to sea harrier.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 29 Sep 2009 22:59

Baldev wrote:you are right about SHAR ,when looking at the nose cone of SHAR which is comparable to the nose cone of mig21, elta2032 when fitted to mig21 gives range of 46 km against 5^sq and can engage one target at a time with derby

it would have been better to fit SHARs with kopyo M radar and R77 because kopyo M can be fitted to mig21 so it can also be fitted to sea harrier.


the Elta El/M-2032 fitted on the SHars is a maritime version of the Elta 2032 with better measures against sea clutter that plagues radars over sea. its a good radar and the Derby missiles are lighter than the R-77 by quite a bit, allowing for more to be carried on the SHar which is handicapped as far as payload goes. the Derby also has both LOAL/LOBL features. the combination of the two gives the SHar an edge over any regional adversaries it will face over waters till 2013-2014 at least. after which, the MiG-29K will take over fleet defence and offensive operations and be much more capable at it.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Anurag » 29 Sep 2009 23:18

Is there any pic of a IN SHAR carrying the Derby?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Baldev » 30 Sep 2009 02:25

Kartik wrote:the Elta El/M-2032 fitted on the SHars is a maritime version of the Elta 2032 with better measures against sea clutter that plagues radars over sea. its a good radar and the Derby missiles are lighter than the R-77 by quite a bit, allowing for more to be carried on the SHar which is handicapped as far as payload goes. the Derby also has both LOAL/LOBL features. the combination of the two gives the SHar an edge over any regional adversaries it will face over waters till 2013-2014 at least. after which, the MiG-29K will take over fleet defence and offensive operations and be much more capable at it.

what if SHAR(subsonic) meets a fighter(supersonic) with 100km range AMRAAM

elta2032 is just like any other radar is a multi mode slotted array radar nothing special about being maritime radar.on the other hand kopyo m radar is smaller version of zhuk me and zhuk27 being the larger version
there is also nothing special about kopyo M also but its got better detection range which competes well against apg68(v7).

radar range against 5^sq
kopyo m gives 80km
elta2032 gives 46km

missile range
derby 50km
R77 80km

not to mention extra expenditure to buy derby,python when better BVR missile exist in india :D

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gagan » 30 Sep 2009 02:34

How many R-77s can a SHAR take off with off the ski jump? How many R-77s can it land back with on the carrier deck?
The weight penalty is a severely restricting one for carrier borne ops, more so with the SHAR and India's small sized carrier ops.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Baldev » 30 Sep 2009 02:47

Gagan wrote:How many R-77s can a SHAR take off with off the ski jump? How many R-77s can it land back with on the carrier deck?
The weight penalty is a severely restricting one for carrier borne ops, more so with the SHAR and India's small sized carrier ops.

Weapons: The aircraft has four wing and three under-fuselage stations. The inner wing pylons carry drop tanks of 900 kg each. The two outer wing pylons can carry up to 450 kg each. Two under-fuselage stations are normally occupied by two 30mm gun pods, with 120 rounds per gun. Indian Navy Sea Harriers use Magic-IIs for air defense. In the anti-ship role, the Sea Harrier can carry two Sea Eagle AShMs.

Maximum External Stores Load: STOL (Short Take-Off & Landing) mode - 3629 kg (8000 lbs).
VTOL (Vertical Take-Off & Landing) mode - 2268 kg (5000 lbs).

so this clearly shows that SHAR has more than enough thrust to carry R77

here is photo of SHAR that it will carry only 2 derby missiles one on each outer wing pylon
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Images/Harrier13.jpg

so 2 R77 can be carried easily.

by the way 25 million spent on buying few derby missiles but R77 could be procured in same numbers from IAF without extra expenditiure :)

sorry for being off topic.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 30 Sep 2009 05:08

Baldev wrote:what if SHAR(subsonic) meets a fighter(supersonic) with 100km range AMRAAM

elta2032 is just like any other radar is a multi mode slotted array radar nothing special about being maritime radar.on the other hand kopyo m radar is smaller version of zhuk me and zhuk27 being the larger version
there is also nothing special about kopyo M also but its got better detection range which competes well against apg68(v7).

radar range against 5^sq
kopyo m gives 80km
elta2032 gives 46km

missile range
derby 50km
R77 80km

not to mention extra expenditure to buy derby,python when better BVR missile exist in india :D

what if the same happens when such a fighter meets the MiG-21 Bison with its Kopyo ? same result. the MiG-21 won't be aware of the otehr fighter and will be fired upon well before its aware of the other fighter's presence. the Bison's Kopyo only has a detection range of around 55 kms, not 80 kms and thats because of the size of the radar array, which is limited by the nose diameter on the MiG-21. the same is true of the SHar and thats why its detection range won't be great either. the regular Elta 2032 with a bigger array has a much higher detection range, claimed by its manufacturer to be around 120 kms not 46 kms for a regular sized array.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Baldev » 30 Sep 2009 05:57

Kartik wrote:
Baldev wrote:what if SHAR(subsonic) meets a fighter(supersonic) with 100km range AMRAAM

elta2032 is just like any other radar is a multi mode slotted array radar nothing special about being maritime radar.on the other hand kopyo m radar is smaller version of zhuk me and zhuk27 being the larger version
there is also nothing special about kopyo M also but its got better detection range which competes well against apg68(v7).

radar range against 5^sq
kopyo m gives 80km
elta2032 gives 46km

missile range
derby 50km
R77 80km

not to mention extra expenditure to buy derby,python when better BVR missile exist in india :D

what if the same happens when such a fighter meets the MiG-21 Bison with its Kopyo ? same result. the MiG-21 won't be aware of the otehr fighter and will be fired upon well before its aware of the other fighter's presence. the Bison's Kopyo only has a detection range of around 55 kms, not 80 kms and thats because of the size of the radar array, which is limited by the nose diameter on the MiG-21. the same is true of the SHar and thats why its detection range won't be great either. the regular Elta 2032 with a bigger array has a much higher detection range, claimed by its manufacturer to be around 120 kms not 46 kms for a regular sized array.
lets come to Indian military aviation.we discuss there

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 30 Sep 2009 09:39

Anurag wrote:Is there any pic of a IN SHAR carrying the Derby?

reply here : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5057&p=747175#p747175

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sunny y » 30 Sep 2009 11:25

China ahead in warship sprint

http://idrw.org/?p=1067


China will soon deploy its first aircraft carrier and it will be more advanced than anything India has or plans to get. Varyag – an Admiral Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier — is more advanced than the INS Viraat —vanguard of the Indian navy — and the still to be procured Admiral Gorshkov (INS Vikramaditya).


Is it true ?? Can anyone confirm this ?

Adm Sureesh Mehta has repeatedly said that after all the completion of the work going on Gorshkov it will be a brand new & excellent AC. So what does this excellent AC mean if we will still be lagging behind China.

I mean after all this rennovation for all these years, What are we really getting ??

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 30 Sep 2009 11:45

confirm what ? why don't you yourself go through the specifications of the respective carriers and then tell us the information ?

don't expect people here to spoonfeed you.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Mihir.D » 30 Sep 2009 11:48

In case of a Indo China war will China be in a position to stop Indian operations from Andmans? Will China with the help of Burma be in a position to take over those Islands ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sumeet_s » 30 Sep 2009 12:18

Some info on China's oil usage and imports as of 2008. (as oil stats were being discussed earlier)

Reserves: 15.5 billion barrels
Production: 3.8 million barrels per day(mbpd)
Consumption: 7.99 mbpd


Total imports:4.39 mbpd
of which
crude oil: 3.58 mbpd
Petroleum products: 0.812 mbpd


Out of total imports of 4.39 mbpd
areas from where imported are:
Middle East: 1.84 mbpd
West Africa: 0.783 mbpd
Former Soviet Union: 0.453 mbpd
Other Asia Pacific: 0.442 mbpd
South & Central America: 0.334 mbpd
East & South Africa: 0.213 mbpd
Others: 0.324 mbpd


Out of total consumption of 7.99 mbpd
product wise consumption is

1) Light distillates: 2.175 mbpd (consists of aviation and motor gasolines)
2) Middle distillates: 3.178 mbpd(consists of jet and heating kerosines, and gas and diesel oils)
3) Fuel oil: 0.716 mbpd (consists of marine bunkers and crude oil used directly as fuel)
4) Others: 1.930 mbpd (consists of refinery gas, LPGs, petroleum coke, lubricants)

*mbpd = million barrels per day

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2118
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: China Military Watch

Postby manjgu » 30 Sep 2009 12:57

Mihir D... your question is very speculative. anything can happen in war... though I think it will be very very difficult.

Summet ..thanks for the info.. this thread has been very educative for me. the more i read, the more i feel that the Indian govt should take Chinese threat in the mountains very seriously since we dont have too much capability / oppurtunity / time to squeeze chinese really hard in the sea. Have been reading a book.."War....". It talks a lot about chinese view on war and the ancient chinese strategy called Slow slow quick quick... first make detailed planning in the background for the war ( slow)... show some concilliatory gestures to lull the enemy ( slow) and then make quick war.... very interesting ... the current chinese preparation look very similar !!

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1930
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: China Military Watch

Postby AdityaM » 01 Oct 2009 09:26

Sit back and watch the Chinese Clone army.
Any news links of the massive parade?


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