China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Omar » 05 Apr 2010 01:00

Since Bramananda's post was pretty much ignored let me repost this gem:

Varyag is out of drydock

Shows that Varyag has left the dry docks in Dalian with the modified island. Although at this point, they really haven't put any of the sensors on the island yet. Looks like all of the dry dock work has been done and they will start to really install on the electronics now. What I hear is that they completely redesigned the inside of the ship. They put a lot of serious investment into putting Varyag back into service, so it may serve past just having training purpose. Just waiting patiently for the next stage now.


Varyag will be an operational carrier. Period. It won't be a casino or a training platform. It is still has a long road before it is operational and there are many unanswered questions about its capability. But we need to start asking ourselves the following questions now:

What has China learned from the Varyag?
What technologies still need to be mastered?
How does the PLAN intend to fill those gaps? Importing subsystems, hiring consultants, or indigenous development? If the former, from whom?
What aircraft does the PLAN intend to operate from the Varyag? (Some speculate a navalized J-11 and Z-9)
How will these aircraft be different from those already produced in China?
How will the PLAN train its pilots for carrier ops?
Does the PLAN plan to build and induct more aircraft carriers?
How does the PLAN intend to use/deploy its aircraft carriers?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Samay » 05 Apr 2010 01:07

The Chinese navy will be the second largest by 2025 ,even ruskies are now worried ....
interesting link on PLA/N/F http://www.comw.org/cmp/

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby jaladipc » 05 Apr 2010 19:51

Belated news report:

Huge explosion in one of the silos of an IRBM base in Central-North( exact location avoided)

Atleast 8 people dead due to the explosion which triggered dude to electric short circuit.Awaiting more details

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Craig Alpert » 06 Apr 2010 03:30

Image

sum
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 06 Apr 2010 08:50

jaladipc wrote:Belated news report:

Huge explosion in one of the silos of an IRBM base in Central-North( exact location avoided)

Atleast 8 people dead due to the explosion which triggered dude to electric short circuit.Awaiting more details

Jaladi saar,

Are you talking about a Chinese IRBM base or SDRE?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sathyaC » 06 Apr 2010 09:35

can any one through some light on the SS-N-22 sunburn as PLAN has got it from the RU
what impact it will have on India ?
is it same as Brahmos ? :eek:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 06 Apr 2010 09:51

sunburn is an older missile performing the same role as yakhont/brahmos i.e supersonic anti-ship.

AFAI remember, it is heaver and shorter ranged than the brahmos and will be replaced in russian service by yakhont/brahmos or variants thereof.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby andy B » 06 Apr 2010 10:01

El correcto onlee Bongal Breaper ji...IIRC quoted range was somewhere near 220kms for ze sunburn ul moskito it was el classique anti ship weapon for the Sovremny class of DDGs that Tongchi got back in the day when the Sunburn first came out it created quite a buzz bcoz of its unique nature although today it definetely looks old compared to the Brahmos and the Onyx...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 06 Apr 2010 11:54

does Rus have an intent to upgrade the big daddy of all ASMs - the immense Granit? :twisted:

imho, a hypersonic Mach6 stealth shaped version of Granit with more modern radar seeker (IIR will not work at those nosecone temps) and C3I linkages definitely will look cool in the new class of DDG the RuN is planning and the Sverodbinsk ofcourse :twisted:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby bhavik » 06 Apr 2010 13:13

Are we helpless sitting duck for everyone ?

http://www.ptinews.com/news/597303_Chin ... -documents

What is indian govt. upto?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Nihat » 06 Apr 2010 13:21

bhavik wrote:Are we helpless sitting duck for everyone ?

http://www.ptinews.com/news/597303_Chin ... -documents

What is indian govt. upto?


I seriously doubt the credibility of cuh news, this is not as easy as internet hacking. A ring of network is interconnected within themselves and it's impossible to know for sure if someone or something broke into it and what kind of information was being stored in them.

How casually DDM can pull off this crap about "missile systems and squadron info was compamised" , how are they supposed to know all this and how foolish are we to take this on face value.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sid » 06 Apr 2010 14:35

^^^

Their report (i.e. Canadian/American) must be compiled based on inputs provided by Indian officials.

But AFAIK Indian military computers/servers which carry sensitive data are never internet enabled. They all are connected through a Intranet which covers whole of IA. Not sure about IN/IAF if they too operate on this common Intranet. But there are separate terminals which are connected thru internet.

If data was actually stolen then it must have been done through some espionage/spy ring.

One thing security agencies need to cover are USB devices. They must scan or lookout for such stuff when someone goes into sensitive military installations. Also almost all computer systems in IA are not well protected (mostly bought directly from vendors). You can directly plugin your USB and fish out whatever you can form such systems.

Although bright minds do work in MoD as contractors but there should be dedicated wing to counter such IT threats.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 06 Apr 2010 14:40

generally call centers get around data theft by using modified thin PCs with no ports like USB wherein memory keys / external drives could be plugged in, no internet access , no email.

a further leg up is thin client with no internal HDD at all, just a display, mouse and keyboard and the entire desktop OS runs as a virtual machine in a secure server farm. similar to the minicomputers with vt100 terminals of our college days but running full graphical OSes.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby bhavik » 06 Apr 2010 16:02

Nihat wrote:
bhavik wrote:Are we helpless sitting duck for everyone ?

http://www.ptinews.com/news/597303_Chin ... -documents

What is indian govt. upto?


I seriously doubt the credibility of cuh news, this is not as easy as internet hacking. A ring of network is interconnected within themselves and it's impossible to know for sure if someone or something broke into it and what kind of information was being stored in them.

How casually DDM can pull off this crap about "missile systems and squadron info was compamised" , how are they supposed to know all this and how foolish are we to take this on face value.


Only foolish thing is to take any adversary lightly .. leave aside an adversary like China.
China's espionage record with US and other countries is proven!
Here is another detailed report

http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/apr/06/slide-show-1-chinese-agents-hack-into-indias-top-secret-documents.htm

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chackojoseph » 06 Apr 2010 16:08

You want the actual report? here it is

Added Later...

:rotfl: it seems they accessed my website too. They read an article Artilery Combat Command and Control System SHAKTI dedication to Indian Army , Which is a straight copy from the PIB website. :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Brando » 06 Apr 2010 16:23

Why is there no official word from the Indian government or the agencies identified in the report as to the nature or the seriousness of this breech and if Indian national security was compromised ?

Is this mundane hacking or is it as serious as the report suggests ?? Silence at a time like this is not the way a government responds to its 1 billion employers.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Philip » 06 Apr 2010 16:45

Chinese hackers steal Dalai Lama's emails

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... mails.html

Chinese hackers have stolen almost a year's worth of the Dalai Lama's personal emails, as well as movements of Nato staff in Afghanistan and details of Indian missile systems, according to a new report.

EXcerpt:
The Munk Centre was responsible for the discovery of GhostNet last year, an enormous Chinese hacking network that had penetrated 103 countries and almost 1,300 computers. One-third of the targets were highly sensitive, including foreign ministries, embassies and even a computer at Nato headquarters.

China's global cyber-espionage network GhostNet penetrates 103 countries
The new report builds on the previous research, and reveals for the first time the sort of information that Chinese hackers are searching for. "After the [GhostNet] report was published, several of the command and control servers listed went offline. However, targeted cyber attacks against Tibetan interests and various governments did not suddenly cease," the researchers revealed.

With the help of the Tibetan government in exile, the researchers were able to start monitoring the hackers and managed to retrieve some of the stolen documents. "The recovered documents include 1,500 letters sent from the Dalai Lama's office between January and November 2009," said the new report, entitled Shadows in the Cloud.

In addition, "dozens of high-level government networks, embassies, international organisations and others have been penetrated and confidential, sensitive, and private documents stolen."

The hackers allegedly stole classified reports about the security in several Indian states, and about several Indian missile systems, including the new Shakti artillery system and the Iron Dome mobile missile defence system. The hackers also stole documents about the movements of Nato workers in Afghanistan.

The report said the aim of the attacks appeared to be increasingly political, but stopped short of accusing the Chinese government of orchestrating the cybercrime. It added that the evolution of social networking had opened up new ways for hackers to exploit loopholes and spread viruses.

Concerns about Chinese cyber-attacks have deepened in the past year, after Google partly blamed a series of hacker attacks for its withdrawal from the Chinese mainland. Two attacks on foreign journalists in China have occurred in the last two weeks, with several Yahoo! accounts being breached and a malicious virus sent to reporters in Shanghai masquerading as an official government email. The website of the Foreign Correspondents' Club in Beijing was also shut after persistent attacks.

The researchers said the hackers appeared to be based in Chengdu and that one member of the gang could be affiliated with the city's prestigious University of Electronic Science and Technology. A spokesman for the university, who would only give his name as Mr Xu, said he was unaware of the report and declined to comment if the university had disciplined any hackers in the past.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby jaladipc » 06 Apr 2010 16:47

Why is there no official word from the Indian government or the agencies identified in the report as to the nature or the seriousness of this breech and if Indian national security was compromised ?


As we all know Indian babus shy away from deliberately leaking such news to indian public and panicking them.Being a IT warehouse,there were numerous instances when DM network was hacked and was fought back only at times.

@ SUM,

I reported in Chinese mil thread not SDRE :P

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Brando » 06 Apr 2010 17:23

DEL.
Last edited by Rahul M on 06 Apr 2010 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: asinine post deleted, user warned.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Craig Alpert » 06 Apr 2010 19:02


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 06 Apr 2010 19:08

the PTI report is complete BS, someone googled for 5 min about latest projects and slapped it around somehow into a report.

Among the systems leaked out could be Shakti, the just introduced advanced artillery combat and control system of the Indian Army and the country's new mobile missile defence system called the Iron Dome.
:roll: the idiots don't even know what iron dome is. PTI continues to be the fountainhead of all things DDM.

p.s. someone please post this stuff in the error in defence reporting thread.
TIA.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Brando » 06 Apr 2010 19:23

Marten wrote:Brando, of all the dumb things you've said, this is the worst. Who are you to abuse the Dalai on this forum? How dare you?

I don't seem to recall ever saying anything dumb on this site-ever. I merely don't respond to dumb hecklers who want to display their prowess at being Google versed and Wikipedia read! As for the Dalai Lama, I couldn't care less. I never knew it was in the Forum rules to refer to him as "his holiness" only! :roll: Apparently, some Moderators see it differently.
Marten wrote:The Dalai uses email extensively and replies often to a lot of people. When he is unable to use a laptop, there are several folks who take dictations and reply on his behalf. Your lack of knowledge does not entitle you to abuse one of our most esteemed religious leaders. The Govt. of India is more than capable of managing attacks from hackers - and it does not matter how bad you feel that there is less coverage in the media. btw, what's the big deal with looking at the Telegraph UK and whining? Here's the list of Indian rags for you to whine your heart out:

You missed to point entirely. Every tom,dick and harry knows that the Dalai Lama's staff do communicate by email however, the importance being assigned to the Tibetan government in exile-which has no legal international standing nor does it have any real political rights when compared to India- a nation that represents the largest sovereign body of democratic people is utterly bizarre considering that both are equally victims of a cyber attack. And I wasn't merely referring to the Telegraph, I was also talking about how the NYT and a dozen other international publications with much more repute and credibility than Indian "rags" seem to be neglecting the bigger story either unconsciously or by nefarious design.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Juggi G » 06 Apr 2010 19:38

China’s Pressure Tactics
India Needs to be Vigilant
by Air Marshal (retd) R.S. Bedi
The writer is former Director General, Defence Planning Staff
Last edited by Juggi G on 06 Apr 2010 19:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rohitvats » 06 Apr 2010 19:50

Brando wrote:I don't seem to recall ever saying anything dumb on this site-ever........<SNIP>


Herr General Guderian, only someone of your esteemed stature can be so modest...such humility!!! You forget your discourse on the superlative tactics of capturing enemy (Pakistan Army) ATGM and RPG by using the T-72 Regiments in Indian Army and then deploying the T-90 based 'crack armored regiments'...what a masterstroke of strategy that was!!!

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby munna » 06 Apr 2010 19:57

^^Or the new technique of telling power to weight ratio of an attack helicopter by a mere glance at its still picture. :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Juggi G » 07 Apr 2010 09:08


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Philip » 07 Apr 2010 15:42

Why China snubs Russian arms.Excellent lengthy article,on how the Russians are selling China only "Soviet era arms"

http://the-diplomat.com/2010/04/05/why- ... sian-arms/

EXcerpt:
Last week, Russia delivered 15 additional batteries of S-300 surface-to-air missiles to China, making good on an about 2 billion dollar deal signed in the mid-2000s. Yet despite the publicity surrounding the sale, the Russian-Chinese arms transfer relationship is in trouble.

Recent years have seen a precipitous fall in Chinese purchases of Russian military equipment and technologies. Whereas until a few years ago Beijing was buying large quantities of Moscow’s surplus Soviet-era military products, during the past few years the Chinese have declined to purchase any major weapons systems from Russia.

China has already acquired about a dozen S-300 batteries from Russia under contracts signed in previous years. But the S-300 is a Soviet-era air defence system, with each battery consisting of four truck-mounted launchers each holding four missile tubes. And, although the late-model versions of the S-300 (dubbed ‘The Favourite’ by Russians) delivered a few days ago are highly capable, the Russian military is phasing out the system’s use. Russian units are replacing it with the more effective S-400 (code-named ‘Triumph’ by NATO), which has additional capabilities against stealthy targets as well as some ballistic missiles. Meanwhile, Russia’s defence industry is now developing an even more advanced surface-to-air missile system, the S-500, which is potentially capable of intercepting targets in outer space flying at hypersonic speeds of five kilometres a second.

Last week’s shipment underscores two key features of the current Russia-China arms transfer relationship. First, Russia is presently sending China only weapons systems based on Soviet-era technology, most of which were manufactured during the Soviet era. Second, China purchased these items several years ago. In recent years, in contrast, China has largely stopped buying complete weapons systems from Russia, primarily because the Chinese defence industry can now match Soviet-era technologies, while Russia refuses to sell China its most advanced weapons...


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby nithish » 07 Apr 2010 20:28

misleading headline..
China's ASAT programme threat to global space assets: India

India today slammed China's anti-Satellite (ASAT) programme, terming it a threat to global space assets.

In 2007, Beijing successfully tested an anti-satellite (ASAT) vehicle, destroying an inactive weather satellite.Asked if China's ASAT programme is a threat to Indian satellites, Secretary in the Department of Space, K Radhakrishnan said: "... the threat is not only for us, but for the entire world because it (China's 2007 test) has created space debris".

Noting that the Chinese test has resulted in 3000 particles (space debris), Radhakrishnan, also Chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and Space Commission, said: "So we have to be careful about their (space debris from the Chinese test) possible collision with our operational satellites".

He said a group of ISRO scientists is coordinating with the international group on space debris, which observes and conducts analysis and continuously looks at managing Indian satellites -- in terms of manoeuvres and navigation -- for avoiding such possible collisions.

"Internationally, under the UN body, countries are encouraged not to undertake such activities (killing satellites in space and creating space debris", Radhakrishnan said.
Radhakrishnan said space debris are also created when satellites are integrated on their own. "Such objects (debris) will be there in orbit".

One can only try to avoid debris hitting satellites, he said, adding there is a talk of "scavenging" of debris from orbit. But this concept needs to evolve and "one has to see how one is going to do that," he added.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kittoo » 08 Apr 2010 12:29

X-post.

From Orbat.com-

India approves two more divisions The first two are raised and are in Eastern Command, though of course it will take two years at least for them to shake down. Now the Indian press reports that two more divisions have been approved, starting with a divisional HQ, some division troops and a brigade each, and then built up. These two will go to Ladakh. The Army has requested even more divisions.
At this point, we'd like both China to take a deep breath and figure out what it has gained by belligerence.
India previously had ten divisions dedicated to the China front, though at least two more could be quickly inducted.
Now India has not only added four new divisions, a strike corps has been reoriented to counter any China thrust tthrough Nepal. Which is a polite way of saying India now has an option to attack south Tibet through Nepal. That makes a 40% increase in dedicated forces, and a doubling of contingency forces. India can now deploy 18 divisions against Tibet.
The Chinese had been able to reduce their strength in Northwest Tibet to almost nothing, except for border troops. They will now face the prospect of having to either increase substantially their NW Tibet deployments, or stage a counteroffensive against Northeast India to balance territory lost in the Northwest.
But wait - as the Count says, there's more. Since the first two divisions have gone to the Northeast, China would face 9 and not seven divisions without Eastern Command calling for reinforcements.
Further, by 2015 India is likely to at least three more divisions against China.
Does China really need this additional grief? India had, in fact, keeled over to think of England in Winter, vis-a-vis the China border. The Chinese offered permanent peace, India accepted, and for 15 years ignored the northern border. But the Chinese couldn't just let things be. They pushed and pushed and pushed India.
The Indians will say, in their usual passive-defensive way: "Don't blame us, you made us do it," and for once Editor has to agree. The Indians are not at fault, the Chinese are.
BTW, India spends 2% of its $1.5-trillion GDP on defense. It has plenty of room to spend even more, both as a percentage and in absolute terms as its economy grows.
Isn't $1.5-trillion way off the official figure of $1.2-trillion? Well, here's the odd thing. India has been using NNI in place of GDP, and for every country NNI is less than GDP. Since everyone now uses GDP, we should for India too.
Also BTW, readers should realize even $1.5-trillion way understates India's actual economy, a huge part of which escapes count because it evades taxes. People have correctly pointed out that that's the case in China too. But compared to India, China is very tightly governed. Whatever part of the Chinese economy escapes being counted, as a percentage of GDP it has to be much smaller than for India.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rohitvats » 08 Apr 2010 17:37

X-posting my own post from Indian Army thread -

From Orbat.com (http://orbat.com/):

India approves two more divisions The first two are raised and are in Eastern Command, though of course it will take two years at least for them to shake down. Now the Indian press reports that two more divisions have been approved, starting with a divisional HQ, some division troops and a brigade each, and then built up. These two will go to Ladakh. The Army has requested even more divisions.(This confirms the assertion posted earlier that these two divisions are in addition to two raised earlier for North East. Also, based on the information in the new reports(that these formation will be dual tasked against TSPA), self was of the opinion that these two new divisions will be part of the Northern Command. The same is confirmed by this article. As part of Northern Command, these two formations can be dual tasked for LAC or LOC. What remains to be seen is whether these are raised as Command Reserves, part of existing Corps or new Corps HQ. If they are raised as part of new Corps HQ-not dedicated to any specific sector like 14 Corps, we might see the first Mountain Strike Corps.This raising will have another beneficial effect - AHQ will not have to draw troops from other sectors to bolster Northern Command AOR in case of shooting match with TSPA)


India previously had ten divisions dedicated to the China front, though at least two more could be quickly inducted. (This needs a bit of correction - with 8 Mountain Division deployed along LOC in Kargil after 1999, there are 9 Mountain Divisions available in addition to one infantry division. Of these, 7 Mountain Divisions and 1 Infantry Division are part of Corps which will be in action against the PLA. 2 Mountain Divisions are reserve divisions - will be deployed in case of tempratures warming up)


Now India has not only added four new divisions, a strike corps has been reoriented to counter any China thrust through Nepal. Which is a polite way of saying India now has an option to attack south Tibet through Nepal. That makes a 40% increase in dedicated forces, and a doubling of contingency forces. India can now deploy 18 divisions against Tibet.( For number of divisions to reach 18, the Strike Corps will have to pitch in with 4 additional divisions - this means divisions will be added to the nominated Strike Corps HQ. For example, 1 Corps has 4th Infantry Division - 3 more will have to be added to it from other sectors)


But wait - as the Count says, there's more. Since the first two divisions have gone to the Northeast, China would face 9 and not seven divisions without Eastern Command calling for reinforcements. (33 Corps/4 Corps/ 3 Corps - each with three divisions)


Further, by 2015 India is likely to at least three more divisions against China.(It will be interesting to see how these are deployed - we might very well see the birth of Mountain Strike Corps with these)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kanson » 08 Apr 2010 19:52

^^^ Now only it make sense. Earlier news of adding only 2 divisions from exisitng pool doesnt seems to be fit for the game. Adding Strike Cops..that tells the story. We are slowy moving from Pak-centric to China-centric army. Equal perks reinstated for those in NE in accordance with those in Siachen. I'm coming to believe that, India is not trigger-happy to engage with Pak even after mumbai is something to do with China too. It wouldnt be off-comment if I say they are preparing for the show-down with China in the coming decade. Already few dates were talked abt like 2012, 2015, 2017 for the eventual show-down by various scholars. Our offensive and defensive BM system are getting ready around this time. MMRCA will start getting inducted around this time. We must have completed the Su-30MKI procurement by this time. Once MMRCA gets completed i think we must concentrate on Naval platforms to ramp up the production along with deploying Mountain strike cops.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avik » 08 Apr 2010 20:41

Rohitvats: A few questions on the number of Mountain Divs:

1) I can count 7 divs in the NE + 1 Div in Ladakh for the China front. That besides there are the two new divs, which were raised last earlier. But which are the two reserve mountain divs that can be deployed ? The reason i ask this is because I think the YOL div is committed as reserve against the Pak front either in Samba area or Akhnur and north. So, which are these two reserve mountain divs?

2) Are we sure the two new latest divs are for mountain strike corps? I would think, the first priority would be to cover existing gaps in the Northern sector viz, Chushul-Demchok (1 Div) + Himachal/ UP Sugar Sector (1 Div). I would think the mountain strike corps bit will come later..in the next phase?

3) About the re-orientation of the existing strike corps towards South Tibet and Nepal, I think we know which corps Ravi Rikhye is referring to. But if we were to leave aside the heavy-heavy division in that corps, that still leaves 4 and 58 Divs. So, there is something there. Although, I am wondering about the deployment of the Ranchi div? Is it for East Comm or Cent Comm as part of the strike corps?

Would be grateful for some gyann here..

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rohitvats » 08 Apr 2010 20:42

Kanson wrote:^^^ Now only it make sense. Earlier news of adding only 2 divisions from exisitng pool doesnt seems to be fit for the game. Adding Strike Cops..that tells the story. We are slowy moving from Pak-centric to China-centric army. Equal perks reinstated for those in NE in accordance with those in Siachen. .......<SNIP>


Kanson, the earlier mountain divisions would have been raised from existing pool of resources...these will be replenished in due course of time. As for the Siachen and NE analogy for the perks, Armed Forces in general and IA in this case, do not work like this. Siachen falls into a particular category of posting (like high altitude+Operation Mehdoot combined) and hence, the troops deployed there receive y-amount of allowance.Similarly, troops in CI Ops receive other level of allowance whehter they are in CI Ops in J&K or NE...difference may occur if multiple categories apply at the same time...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rohitvats » 08 Apr 2010 20:55

Happy to help onlee sir...as it is, very few people discuss the orbat topic :D

Avik wrote:Rohitvats: A few questions on the number of Mountain Divs:

1) I can count 7 divs in the NE + 1 Div in Ladakh for the China front. That besides there are the two new divs, which were raised last earlier. But which are the two reserve mountain divs that can be deployed ? The reason i ask this is because I think the YOL div is committed as reserve against the Pak front either in Samba area or Akhnur and north. So, which are these two reserve mountain divs?

{You've already taken into account the 7 Divisions in NE and 3rd ID in Leh. Other two are 39th Mountain Division and 6th Mountain Division. 39th is Northern Command Reserve and will be deployed as per requirement. 6th Mountain is AHQ reserve and triple tasked for Central LAC (Uttarakhand-Tibet Section), Chicken's neck and J&K as per requirement}

2) Are we sure the two new latest divs are for mountain strike corps? I would think, the first priority would be to cover existing gaps in the Northern sector viz, Chushul-Demchok (1 Div) + Himachal/ UP Sugar Sector (1 Div). I would think the mountain strike corps bit will come later..in the next phase?

{That is why I qualified in my analysis that if these are not given fixed AOR, then they might form part of a new Mountain Strike Corps or may simply just be under Northern Command HQ. The way I see it, IA may not see the need to permanently deploy these formations to Dhemchok-Chusul and HP-Tibet Sector as there is no threat in being, like LOC. There is no opposing formation of PLA on other side of LAC that needs to be countered like PA divisions. IA may want to retain the flexibility of tasking them for LOC or LAC, as per requirement}

3) About the re-orientation of the existing strike corps towards South Tibet and Nepal, I think we know which corps Ravi Rikhye is referring to. But if we were to leave aside the heavy-heavy division in that corps, that still leaves 4 and 58 Divs. So, there is something there. Although, I am wondering about the deployment of the Ranchi div? Is it for East Comm or Cent Comm as part of the strike corps?

{Sir, there is no 58 Division in IA that I'm aware of - unless it is a new raising. Two Divisions in 50s are the 54th and 57th. 54th is with 21 Corps and 57th with 3 Corps in NE. I Corps has 33rd Armored and 4th RAPID. So, we need 3 more divisions...I'm not sure on the status of 23rd ID (in terms of who it reports to) and where it will go in case of LAC heating up}

Would be grateful for some gyann here..

{Hope it helps}


Avik
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avik » 08 Apr 2010 21:13

^^^^^^^
Rohit : Thanks Sir....no need for Sirji for me though !!

Just a few more details.if u dont mind..

1) I thought 39 Mountain Div is tasked for the Pakistan Front , either Samba or Rajouri. But, I take your point on 6 MD. I had missed that one. Now, given that 6 MD is for Uttarakhand/ sugar sector, i guess there is still gap in Himachal?

2) I accept your point on query no. 2

3) Well, actually, I meant 54 Div. Nevertheless, thanks for clearing that up. The new query (surprise..surprise), is that if 4 ID is being 'rapidised' and 33 Armr Div is too heavy to deploy to Nepal/ South Tibet, where does that leave I Corps wrt the China front (other than possibly two inf bdes from 4 Div)? There isnt much too deploy from I Corps...

Many thanks for your post..it was very helpful.

Juggi G
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Juggi G » 08 Apr 2010 21:21

China's War Plans For India :evil:
Open Magazine April 16, 2010.
Suman Sharma

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sum
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 08 Apr 2010 21:37

^^^ Rohitvats-ji,

Kindly comment on the above linked article by Juggi G. The author( am guessing she is one of BRs favourites :wink: :wink: ) seems to have deep contacts and has given exact ground situation ( 6-Su-30s flying in Tezpur etc). Is the situation as grim as projected?

Rahul M
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 08 Apr 2010 21:44

I was trying to map PLA's formations opposing our border/LAC. information is very hard to come by.
any help will be much appreciated.

http://brfrahulm.blogspot.com/2010/02/p ... rk-in.html

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Kanson
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kanson » 08 Apr 2010 21:58

Rohit,

I'm talking abt High altitude + adverse climate area of NE only. I think it was made as much as equal to that of Siachen allowance, if i'm not wrong. Previously it want not so to my knowledge even thou' situtaon in areas near China border is as much harsh as that of Siachen.

Second, as per the information available, the first two mountain div raised for NE were from the exisitng pool without overall increase in man power strength of IA. You say this is not correct?


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