China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rohitvats » 01 Jul 2010 14:30

bhavik wrote: <SNIP>
I think rather than PR Aspect ... this is signal from chinis to us ""that we have barracks and soldiers armed and well prepared with definite advantage in infrastructure and facilities. We shall always have upper hand as long as your lazy politicians and army heads are sleeping .. Don't you dare oppose us .. ""


While the PLA needs to be lauded for infra projects in Tibet, I'm not sure how this barrack thing (assuming it for regular acco and not medical cases), is a bad thing.

The whole idea of acclimitization of troops before operational deployment is to ensure their survival and fitness in these areas. Without acclimitization, those soldiers are "patients in waiting". What will the PLA do if there is shooting match tomorrow? How will these soldiers, used to staying in these barracks, be able to suddenly move about and fight in the rarefied and high alt. battlefield - against troops who'd be properly accilimitized for vagaries of nature at such alt.

And what about them having to face the Ladakh Scouts - the uncrowned kings and Mountain Warfare champions?

Seems another PR stunt to me.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby David Siegel » 06 Jul 2010 20:18

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets
http://idrw.org/?p=2265

Russia has blocked the sale of 100 RD-93 engines to China for FC-1, the joint Sino-Pak fighter, which could emerge as a rival for its MiG-29 fighter in the global markets, according to a report today.

“The new contract with China for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines has not been signed,” Kommersant reported quoting its sources in the military-industrial complex.

The deal for the supply of second batch of 100 RD-93 manufactured by Moscow-based Chernyshev Machine building Plant for FC-1 (Pakistani version JF-17) was to be signed with China back in May, however, CEO of RAC MiG and Sukhoi Aircraft Holding Mikhail Pogosyan has torpedoed it, Kommersant business daily reported.

“One of the sources confirmed that Pogosyan has virtually blocked the deal with China by writing to the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) and Rosoboronexport (ROE) state arms exporter that FC-1 is a direct rival of Russian MiG-29 fighters in several foreign markets,” the daily writes noting that Russian and Chinese fighters are in the race for an Egyptian contract.

“I am not against the re-export of individual technologies, but it should be done in agreement with the producers of finished-product, so that this re-export does not damage their interests,” Pogosyan told Kommersant.

“Re-export is allowed by the government decision and we don’t have a practice of consulting producers of finished products.

Under the inter-governmental bilateral agreement in November 2007 China was allowed to re-export RD-93 as part of FC-1 fighter to Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria,” press service of state arms exporting monopoly ROE was quoted as saying by the daily.

The Kommersant reminds that Chernyshev Plant a part of United Engine Corporation has supplied 100 RD-93 engines to China under the USD 238 million deal signed in 2005.

A framework agreement for the sale of 500 such engines for the Sino-Pak joint fighter was also signed at that time and Beijing was ready to buy up to 1,000 engines in over USD 3 billion, if Russia agreed to offer its modernised version with greater thrust.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sid » 06 Jul 2010 22:05

David Siegel wrote:Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets
http://idrw.org/?p=2265

Russia has blocked the sale of 100 RD-93 engines to China for FC-1, the joint Sino-Pak fighter, which could emerge as a rival for its MiG-29 fighter in the global markets, according to a report today.



I think recent attempts by XXXXX to copycat Su-33, and their carbon copy J-11 knocked some sense into them.

Its not far from now when XXXXX will put J-11 in export market. Of course XXXX will call it indigenous as J11 might be few centimeter wide, few inches longer, etc etc. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Rahul M on 06 Jul 2010 22:10, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: DO NOT use that word.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby parshuram » 06 Jul 2010 22:23

FC-1 is direct competitor to Fulcrum OMG ...... Since when

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kanan » 06 Jul 2010 22:37

Sid wrote:
David Siegel wrote:Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets
http://idrw.org/?p=2265

Russia has blocked the sale of 100 RD-93 engines to China for FC-1, the joint Sino-Pak fighter, which could emerge as a rival for its MiG-29 fighter in the global markets, according to a report today.



I think recent attempts by XXXXX to copycat Su-33, and their carbon copy J-11 knocked some sense into them.

Its not far from now when XXXXX will put J-11 in export market. Of course XXXX will call it indigenous as J11 might be few centimeter wide, few inches longer, etc etc. :mrgreen:


that got me laughing! Good sense of humour,bro! Again, Russia is also worried about Rising China!

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Craig Alpert » 07 Jul 2010 00:24


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby JimmyJ » 07 Jul 2010 01:20

parshuram wrote:FC-1 is direct competitor to Fulcrum OMG ...... Since when


I don't mind even if Russians say JF17==F-22 as long as they don't sell the engines to China and Pakistan. :D

On ground, a Me 262 == F-22.

But soon you can see some Pakistanis quoting the news to prove that JF-17 is the super duper fighter ever made. :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby shambu » 07 Jul 2010 01:41

Anyways I guess China has already got 100 RD-33 engines so the JF-17 program can run smoothly for atleast 3 years.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby darshhan » 07 Jul 2010 02:55

parshuram wrote:FC-1 is direct competitor to Fulcrum OMG ...... Since when


Parshuram ji , Lot of countries in Africa,latin america and asia do not require hi tech items(like fulcrum).They are okay with medium tech items(like FC-1).For them the important and most of the times the only parameter is cost where the chinese have an edge.You have to look at the context of the statement.It points to cost rather than the capability of the aircraft.In terms of cost FC-1 is definitely a rival to Mig-29.Hence the Russians are apprehensive.

Many of these countries are autocratic and dictatorial in nature(for eg Myanmaar and Zimbabve).Almost all of them are massively corrupt(like Congo).The primary threat that rulers in these countries face comes from their own citizens in the form of rebellions,civil wars etc.Hence the weapons that these autocrats/kleptocrats require are going to be used against their own nationals rather than any external enemy.If the primary purpose of your weaponry is to suppress and murder your own citizens then even FC-1 is an overkill.There is no need for High end aircraft like Mig-29 and SU-30 at all which are going to be relatively expensive.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 07 Jul 2010 05:28

shambu wrote:Anyways I guess China has already got 100 RD-33 engines so the JF-17 program can run smoothly for atleast 3 years.


Well that's kind of unclear at this point. Does the ban affect future orders, or are those 100 included? Does anybody know if the initial orders have been delivered yet?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Vivek K » 07 Jul 2010 10:21

Since 100 RD-93s have already been sold, this is just nautanki to please India/MOD in order to get the MRCA order. Has not much effect since it will let a 100 bandars be built.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 07 Jul 2010 10:25

there will be some contractual obligation onlee to ensure spares and parts supply forever for the 100 already sold.

I agree this is just a nautanki. the chinese engine/aerospace programs have presence of ukrainian and russian engineers for 2 decades now right after ussr broke up. stuff is also licensed, changed a little bit cosmetically and claimed as "cloned" with a wink from the OEMs bank account manager.

threats will be what they are. there is no option but to build domestic meat in all respects, a humongous economy and brutal overmatch in everything.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Vinu » 07 Jul 2010 21:51

PLA Navy conducts live ammunition drill

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/v ... 387983.htm

40 seconds video showing just the 'Map' of china. :)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 09 Jul 2010 12:14

Don't know if this belongs here but:

UFO detected over Hangzhou, Zhejiang, shut down air traffic for a while. Apparently the authorities have learned of its identity, but due to military connections, no public explanation will be made just yet.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010 ... 084698.htm

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Craig Alpert » 10 Jul 2010 01:41

India Readies for China Fight
For too long Delhi’s policymakers have watched idly as China’s military prowess has grown, says Nitin Gokhale. Not anymore.

Last May, just days before India’s general election results were announced, the country’s highest policy making body for security matters was convened by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Its mandate: Find ways of enabling India’s military to take on an increasingly powerful (and belligerent) China.
At the end of a marathon meeting, the Cabinet Committee on Security initiated a comprehensive, well-funded plan to bolster India’s land, air and naval forces to counter China’s rising military prowess. The plan is historic, coming after years of dithering by an Indian establishment seemingly paralysed by memories of the country’s humiliating defeat at the hands of the Chinese in a brief but brutal war in 1962.

Since the CCS plan was launched, there have been significant and wide-ranging signs that Indian policymakers are finally willing to realistically assess possible military responses to China’s rise. One clear example is a new division of troops aimed exclusively at the border region of the two great powers. India is now mid-way through raising two mountain divisions for the north-eastern border area with China, with the two divisions pencilled in to be ready for deployment by the middle of next year.
The goal is to plug existing gaps in India’s preparedness along the Arunachal Pradesh-China frontier, and the two divisions, consisting of about 20,000 well-armed troops, will include a squadron of India’s armoured spearhead—Soviet-built T-90 tanks and a regiment of artillery. They will be backed by enhanced command, control, communications and intelligence (C4I) capabilities aimed at covering the Tibet region. But that’s certainly not all.

The Indian Air Force has over the past year deployed 36 Su-30MKI, its most advanced multi-role fighter aircraft, to Tezpur in the country’s north-east in response to the People’s Liberation Army Air Force’s seven airbases in Tibet and southern China.

Meanwhile, the Indian Navy is working to counter the growing clout of the PLA Navy. The current thinking at Indian naval headquarters is that China will move to aggressively increase its presence in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) to secure its extended energy supply lines (despite its name, military planners in Beijing don’t feel India has ownership of this expanse of water).

As a consequence, the Indian Navy’s plans are based on the premise that it needs to be a fully-networked and flexible force capable of meeting any ‘out of area’ contingency. Successive Indian naval chiefs since 2004 have spoken about the need for the Navy to have ‘longer sea legs’ by 2020 and to be capable of influencing the outcome of land battles. The importance of the Navy’s role was underscored during the 1999 Kargil skirmish between India and Pakistan, when the Indian Navy played a crucial but silent role in blockading Pakistan’s sea lanes, putting Islamabad under significant pressure to end the conflict quickly.

Since then, India’s naval leadership has been working to break free of its traditional ‘continental construct’ mindset and start looking at the bigger picture, taking into account the full gamut of geo-strategic and geo-political realities. After all, 90 percent of India’s trade by volume and 77 percent by value transits through the IOR.

But trade considerations aside, countering China remains the country’s biggest (but officially largely unstated) objective, a fact Beijing no doubt saw as underscored when India held a joint exercise in the area with the US, Australian and Singaporean navies in 2007.

These joint exercises apart, the Indian Navy is working to build and acquire new, varied and potent platforms including an aircraft carrier, nuclear submarines, stealth frigates and long-range maritime reconnaissance planes. By 2014, it hopes to have 160 ships in its fleet, up from its current strength of 136.

But the most surprising revelation to many analysts was India’s public admission that it was inducting a Russian Akula-class Type 971 nuclear submarine into its forces, in addition to an indigenously designed and built submarine, earlier called the advanced technology vessel but now officially named the INS Arihant (The Destroyer).

‘Together, the two vessels would constitute the third leg of India’s sea-based strategic deterrence,’ Adm Sureesh Mehta, former chief of the Indian navy, announced at the time—the first time a high-ranking Indian military official had gone on record about the country’s plans to have a three-pronged nuclear deterrence.

The induction of the nuclear submarine has brought India closer to securing its nuclear deterrence based on a second, retaliatory strike option that is built on a triad of strategic weapons (the other two options—delivery by an aircraft and mobile, land-based launchers—were already available).

In addition, in recent months, India has also successfully test fired its long range Agni-III strategic missile, capable of hitting targets deep inside China, while the head of India’s missile building programme, VK Saraswat, announced in May that India will go one step further by testing the 5,000-kilometre range, nuclear-capable Agni IV missile in 2011.

But there’s more to an effective defence force than an offensive capability for a country the size of India. Communication and transport lines are essential, especially in far-flung regions, so 72 tactically important roads are also being built in the tough, mountainous terrain along the China border in the Eastern and the Western sectors. The roads are being built by the quasi-military Border Roads Organisation to enhance connectivity, and come on top of the reopening of three major airstrips in Ladakh (Nyoma, Fukche and Daulat Beg Oldie).

The airstrips are being upgraded to allow medium and heavy-lift transport aircraft such as the Russian-built AN-32 aircraft and soon to be inducted US-made C-130J Hercules transport planes to land. The hope behind these developments is that once the facilities are fully functional (expected to be by the end of next year), these assets will offer India the ability to insert a large number of troops in forward areas at short notice, a capacity that Indian policymakers hope will right the current poor connectivity in the forward areas along the Line of Actual Control.

Indeed, it’s this boundary that is the biggest irritant in Sino-India relations, as neither country agrees with the other’s perception about where exactly the line should be drawn. India believes that for all China’s professed desire to find a peaceful and mutually acceptable solution to the festering boundary issue, the country has not budged from its more than three-decades position, and they note that despite frequent meetings of special representatives of both the countries over the past half decade on the issue, the deadlock has yet to be broken.

Suspicion of China runs deep among Indian analysts. ‘China’s demonstrated policies of strategic encirclement of India and its use of India’s other arch-enemy Pakistan as a proxy for her designs…is proof enough that you can never trust Beijing’s intentions,’ says former Maj. Gen. Sheru Thapliyal, who commanded a frontline division responsible for handling China. ‘Until a visible change is demonstrated by China, there’s no excuse for any Indian Government to ignore or soft-pedal the imperatives of strong defensive preparations along the India-Tibet Border’.

But such preparations haven’t gone unnoticed by China. When news of last May’s plans went public, China reacted strongly, with the semi-official Global Times editorializing: ‘India’s current course can only lead to a rivalry between the two countries. India needs to consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China…Any aggressive moves will certainly not aid the development of good relations with China. India should examine its attitude and preconceptions; it will need to adjust if it hopes to cooperate with China and achieve a mutually beneficial outcome.’

This year’s annual report by the Indian Defence Ministry stated: ‘India remains conscious and alert about the implications of China’s military modernisation. Rapid infrastructure development in the Tibet Autonomous Region and Xinjiang Province has considerably upgraded China’s military force projection capability and strategic operational flexibility…Necessary steps have been initiated for the upgrading of our infrastructure and force structuring along the northern borders.’
This kind of urgency, lacking for far too long in New Delhi, is a refreshing indication that Indian policymakers are taking the need to prepare for potential conflict with China seriously. China cannot—and should never be—taken lightly. And India should always be mindful of the fact that military preparedness and trying to improve diplomatic relations are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 10 Jul 2010 03:52

Chinese Warships Fill Indian Ocean Ports

Some Chinese admirals are content with the current arrangements which, they note, works fine with other foreign warships that have been doing these types of distant operations far longer than the Chinese. Meanwhile, Chinese diplomats have been negotiating other commercial deals with the nations hosting the Chinese warships,

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 10 Jul 2010 10:00


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Bihanga » 10 Jul 2010 17:36

darshhan wrote:
parshuram wrote:FC-1 is direct competitor to Fulcrum OMG ...... Since when


Parshuram ji , Lot of countries in Africa,latin america and asia do not require hi tech items(like fulcrum).They are okay with medium tech items(like FC-1).For them the important and most of the times the only parameter is cost where the chinese have an edge.You have to look at the context of the statement.It points to cost rather than the capability of the aircraft.In terms of cost FC-1 is definitely a rival to Mig-29.Hence the Russians are apprehensive.

Many of these countries are autocratic and dictatorial in nature(for eg Myanmaar and Zimbabve).Almost all of them are massively corrupt(like Congo).The primary threat that rulers in these countries face comes from their own citizens in the form of rebellions,civil wars etc.Hence the weapons that these autocrats/kleptocrats require are going to be used against their own nationals rather than any external enemy.If the primary purpose of your weaponry is to suppress and murder your own citizens then even FC-1 is an overkill.There is no need for High end aircraft like Mig-29 and SU-30 at all which are going to be relatively expensive.



I would like to add one more point here. Cost isn't the factor determining the fate of JF-17, as Countries seeking this plane mostly ultra-poor and failed states don't even have enough money to purchase something in class of Mig-21. China most probably offer this jet as a good bargaining tool to corner poor allies to its corner in return of diplomatic support as well as full chinese exploitation of their energy resources.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 11 Jul 2010 20:29

Thin Air Ravages The Chinese Army

But the Tibetans have evolved to deal with it.The majority of Chinese soldiers coming to the Tibetan highlands (which is most of Tibet) require a few days, or weeks, to acclimate. But they are still susceptible to altitude sickness if they exert themselves, especially for extended periods.This makes the troops much less effective.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby jamwal » 11 Jul 2010 20:47

Vivek K wrote:Since 100 RD-93s have already been sold, this is just nautanki to please India/MOD in order to get the MRCA order. Has not much effect since it will let a 100 bandars be built.


Not 100. Some will have to be kept as spare

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 11 Jul 2010 21:05


mind I remind people that strategypage is not kosher ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 11 Jul 2010 22:56

big gorilla holding some war games in pacific and showing some stuff
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 78,00.html

atleast 3 ohios have been modified to fire upto 154 tomahawk SLCMs apparently. probably around 7 tubes per SLBM tube.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Paul » 12 Jul 2010 00:40

X-post from great game thread.

Paul wrote:PRC cannot secure it's own backyard and it wants to muscle into the IOR???? :twisted:

Several months ago there was a small piece in NPR on US moving more nuke subs to the pacific ocean.....

PRC generals and Admirals are true idiots in the mould of the Kaiser who refused to heed Deng's wise counsel.

http://defensetech.org/2010/07/09/u-s-s ... /#comments
A lot of messaging going on in the Western Pacific, by both sides. We’ve pointed to the recent China’s PLA Navy live fire exercises in the East China Sea.

Now, we learn from Time’s Mark Thompson that three former strategic missile submarines converted to carry Tomahawk cruise missiles (SSGNs) surfaced on the same day, June 28, in the Philippine’s Subic Bay, in Pusan, South Korea and at the naval base on Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. Each converted boomer holds up to 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles.

As Thompson writes, the alarm bells must have sounded that day in Beijing:

“In all, the Chinese military awoke to find as many as 462 new Tomahawks deployed by the U.S. in its neighborhood. “There’s been a decision to bolster our forces in the Pacific,” says Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. “There is no doubt that China will stand up and take notice.”

Of course U.S. officials denied that any messaging was intended, but they did make sure news of the SSGN deployments showed up in the Hong Kong based South China Morning Post, on July 4; the same day some analysts expected China to test its DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile.

RIMPAC, the “Rim of the Pacific” war games also began on Wednesday off Hawaii. For all the attention focused on the Levant and the Gulf, its good to see these encouraging signs that at least some in the military understand that the real strategic competition of this century will play out in the Western Pacific.

Don’t miss Craig Hooper’s excellent post on how to turn the Navy’s surface ships into conventional missile carrying strike ships equivalent to the SSGNs.

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2010/07/09/u-s-s ... /#comments#ixzz0tP6G3fvn
Defense.org

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chanakyaa » 12 Jul 2010 06:45

China’s Midterm Jockeying: Gearing Up for 2012

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/opinions/2010/0628_military_leadership_li/0628_military_leadership_li.pdf

The PRC’s civilian-military relationship has always been a central concern among China watchers. Although the political leadership’s control over the military has not been challenged in the last two decades, several factors—a possibly ineffective civilian collective leadership, growing social tensions and public protests, and China’s great power aspirations amid a rapidly changing global environment—may all enhance the military’s influence and power in the years to come. The upcoming political succession in 2012 is expected to involve a large-scale turnover in both the civilian and military leadership. Based on in-depth analysis of the PRC’s 57 currently highest-ranking military officers, this essay aims to address the following important questions: Who are the most likely candidates to become the military’s top leadership at the 18th Party Congress? What are the group characteristics of these rising stars in the Chinese military? What can an analysis of the professional backgrounds and political networks of China’s top officers reveal about the new dynamics between civilian and military elites and the possible challenges that lie ahead?.........

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby arya » 13 Jul 2010 23:21

Russia and China will cooperate in jointly developing and manufacturing a heavy-lift helicopter, a Russian deputy industry and trade minister said on Tuesday.

Denis Manturov said the new helicopter could be based on the Russian Mi-26 and that the two sides were currently discussing the new machine's specifications taking into account China's domestic needs.

"This machine will be oriented toward the Chinese market and the project will be commercial," he said.

The Mi-26 Halo, a heavy transport helicopter with civilian and military applications, is the largest and most powerful helicopter ever to have gone into production.

:wink: Manturov also said Russia and China would cooperate in manufacturing aircraft engines.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100713/159799118.html

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Samay » 14 Jul 2010 01:57

The purpose is to make Gyirong, the "biggest land trade channel of TAR to South Asia" over the next three to five years, the local government said.

The idea is to apparently build it as a border post larger than Nathula on the India-China border and the existing border post connecting the Chinese town of Zhanmu and the Nepali town of Dram.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajrang » 14 Jul 2010 02:43

Singha wrote:big gorilla holding some war games in pacific and showing some stuff
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 78,00.html

atleast 3 ohios have been modified to fire upto 154 tomahawk SLCMs apparently. probably around 7 tubes per SLBM tube.

Singha wrote:big gorilla holding some war games in pacific and showing some stuff
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 78,00.html

atleast 3 ohios have been modified to fire upto 154 tomahawk SLCMs apparently. probably around 7 tubes per SLBM tube.


Quoting from this article:
Two major military exercises involving the U.S. and its allies in the region are now under way. More than three dozen naval ships and subs began participating in the "Rim of the Pacific" war games off Hawaii on Wednesday. Some 20,000 personnel from 14 nations are involved in the biennial exercise, which includes missile drills and the sinking of three abandoned vessels playing the role of enemy ships. Nations joining the U.S. in what is billed as the world's largest-ever naval war game are Australia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, France, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, the Netherlands, Peru, Singapore and Thailand. Closer to China, CARAT 2010 — for Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training — just got under way off Singapore. The operation involves 17,000 personnel and 73 ships from the U.S., Singapore, Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Thailand.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... z0tbBosRZv

Seems like under President Obama, India has been excluded - in sharp contrast to former President Bush who appeared to include India in such naval exercises. Even nations in the Bay of Bengal have been included: Indonesia, Bangladesh, Thailand and Singapore. I am sure (or at least hope) Indian policymakers have taken notice of this. The significance of this could be enormous in both New Delhi and Beijing.

Is it simply a difference in outlook between Presidents Obama and Bush? Or is it more sinister? During President Bush's tenure, maybe the intention was to treat India really well in order to get India to sign the Nuclear treaty. That job was accomplished. However, a new US President is not under the same moral pressure to continue the path of President Bush. After all he was also a political opponent. So, the new president can easily change the relationship. Obviously there are no written agreement to treat India as a close friend in matters such as naval exercises etc. (Politicians!) All Mr. Obama gave India was to treat its Prime Minister treated to a grand dinner in Washington DC.

India as a large democracy is a natural friend of the US and the West. Therefore, it is unclear to me is what would the US gain in not including India? Recall Obama's mixed signals to Dalai Lama in the early months of his presidency. Maybe President Obama's personal view of international politics is playing out?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 14 Jul 2010 06:22

Simple answer is - India needs to assert itself. It should not have to seek others like US, UK, Europe, Russia, China or the Arab worlds help its prominence in this world. For starters - Indians need to stop feeling sorry for itself and get on with with whatever to make its mark.

So far, it has everything on it side - history and tradition. Go Indians Go.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 15 Jul 2010 07:36


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 15 Jul 2010 23:40

China has reverse engineered the Su-33 into the J-15 variant..its already flying if this picture isn't a fake.

post link from Keypub forums

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avinandan » 16 Jul 2010 09:56

Kartik wrote:China has reverse engineered the Su-33 into the J-15 variant..its already flying if this picture isn't a fake.

post link from Keypub forums


Looks pretty impressive, are we sure that it is chinese made ?
Beg, Borrow, Steal; whatever may be the case, China is getting good at it !!

parmeet
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby parmeet » 16 Jul 2010 12:18

"Russia cancels sale of Su-33 fighters to China to prevent their pirate copies"
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/107208-0/

seems to be true ....

DavidD
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 17 Jul 2010 02:12

Yea, it's Chinese. It's not exactly a Su-33 copy, but it's pretty damn close. It's most likely based on the unfinished T-10K-3 prototype China got from Ukraine a few years back, they probably used that as a starting point to develop their version of the Su-33.

Rony
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rony » 19 Jul 2010 09:01

US report claims China shoots down its own satellite for second time

For the second time in three years, China has shot down one of its dysfunctional satellites with a missile, US-based Foreign Policy magazine reported in its latest issue.

The destruction of the satellite, which reportedly happened in January, shows China's defensive missile ability, the magazine said.

China's Ministry of National Defense has yet to comment on the report.

The reported firing took place at almost the same time as a successful missile interception test that China conducted on Jan 11.

The website of Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV said the anti-satellite missile test, if confirmed, is likely related to the missile interception test, which occurred at the peak of a dispute between Beijing and Washington on a massive US arms sales deal to Taiwan.

During the interception test, US agencies spotted two missiles launched from two locations from the Chinese mainland, colliding outside the atmosphere, a Pentagon spokesperson said.

China's Foreign Ministry then said the interception test was defensive in nature and was not targeting any country.

Many military scholars believe it was targeting the Patriot missile defense system that Taiwan was trying to buy from the US at that time.

China's first anti-satellite missile test was conducted successfully on Jan 11, 2007, destroying an abandoned Chinese satellite.

The Foreign Policy article did not reveal any other details of the move or any response from the US government.

Chinese military experts even warned that Washington appeared determined to surround China with US-build anti-missile systems.

However, Peng Guangqian, a Beijing-based military expert, said the newly reported anti-satellite missile test was not necessarily related to the US arms deal with Taiwan.

"It was a large test which needs time to prepare for," he said.

"If confirmed, I think it was a further step for China to improve its defensive ability in space."

Peng also said that China has long advocated the principle of a nonmilitary outer space, on which the US has long kept silent.

VinodTK
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 23 Jul 2010 04:20

On North Korea and More, China Flexes Its Muscles

China's new confidence can be seen in a range of arenas — from the economic clout gained from its vast foreign exchange coffers, to the ever-lengthening diplomatic reach to its stubbornness on a host of global issues, such as climate change — but nowhere is this push-back more conspicuous than with the Chinese military, or People's Liberation Army (PLA). Though still a fraction of the U.S.'s own outlay, PLA spending has more than doubled in the past decade. In particular, Beijing has sought to beef up its blue water navy, building a sophisticated submarine fleet, installing anti-ship ballistic missiles on a number of its vessels, improving its cyber-military technologies and setting up a string of listening posts from the South China Sea to the Indian Ocean. The keel of the first PLA Navy aircraft carrier will be laid this year. "This new suite of Chinese capabilities has no other purpose than to neutralize the U.S. presence in the Western Pacific," says Andrew Shearer, director of studies at the Lowy Institute for International Policy in Sydney, Australia. "China wants to maximize its power in Asia and, in the long term, squeeze out U.S. influence, island chain by island chain."

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Karan Dixit » 23 Jul 2010 08:04

parmeet wrote:"Russia cancels sale of Su-33 fighters to China to prevent their pirate copies"
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/107208-0/

seems to be true ....


If they are able to reverse engineer then that is no mean feat. It means they are able to come up with aerospace design, manufacture structural/mechanical parts, engines, avionics and anything else that makes an aircraft fly. If they are able to manufacture engines and parts themselves then that is a major hurdle knocked down.

We better learn to reverse engineer real fast just for fun to see if we can do it.

VinodTK
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 25 Jul 2010 05:16

The Chinese Navy’s Emerging Support Network in the Indian Ocean

As China continues to maintain a task group of warships off the Horn of Africa to conduct counter-piracy patrols, it is cultivating the commercial and diplomatic ties necessary to sustain its forces along these strategic sea-lanes.

kit
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby kit » 26 Jul 2010 13:58

India cant and wont reverse engineer ! Why ? Not because of lack of brain power or expertise ! Rather a lack of motivation and will power.Now what will you choose.,when you can spend lots of money and get some back into your own pockets without anyone to question you ? quite the opposite with china ., not that corruption does not happen ., but you can make money only by selling copies ! I would rather if the Indian private players become big enough to stand on their own., they can teach DRDO a thing or two about reverse engineering ( already have in the civilian sector !)

manum
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manum » 26 Jul 2010 15:17

India cant and wont reverse engineer ! Why ? Not because of lack of brain power or expertise ! Rather a lack of motivation and will power.Now what will you choose.,when you can spend lots of money and get some back into your own pockets without anyone to question you ? quite the opposite with china ., not that corruption does not happen ., but you can make money only by selling copies ! I would rather if the Indian private players become big enough to stand on their own., they can teach DRDO a thing or two about reverse engineering ( already have in the civilian sector !)


well i would like to know that "how you are so sure that India doesnt reverse engineer", well as much I know India does documents the parts...for whatever reasons...as much i am told by the some private industry guy...whose firm did the job...

do you want visible results of reverse engineering like cheena jets....or you wanna SDRE efforts in a Indian suited version of same "reverse study" knowledge acquired...is there anything called design after learning what is for what? though everything happening in the world is moreover done...which we are about to do...

I'll add here that...since china is already making its jets and military equipments...why it needs to reverse engineer now...if they can manufacture...then why not design? why they reverse engineer su-33 after 27 "if i am correct"...they could have learnt design philosophy of the family...and went on with their own intervention...

There are somethings which are not tangible for a designer....than to speak "we must try fast to reverse engineer, atleast for fun"....we did reverse learning or else so many things wouldn't have been here...and now after a strong base we'll project ourselves to beyond...have patience...


PS..i am new here and almost avoid the tempt to post here due excellent technical knowledge of members ...but due to my architecture background...where we do study whole life others design...i thought may be i could add...

andy B
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby andy B » 31 Jul 2010 08:13



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