China Military Watch

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Craig Alpert
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Craig Alpert » 02 Aug 2010 04:40


Patrick Cusack
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 02 Aug 2010 09:52

I dont think GOI can print money to pay for this - GOI is not a hegemonic dictatorship - decision based on consensus. It is a freely elected democracy.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby prabhug » 02 Aug 2010 12:52

Hi
I have following doubts on chinese aerospace industry
1.They make aerodynamic changes so fast. How is it possible for them to test it so fast to get it stable ? When rest of the scientist struggle what is the principle which get them that fast ?
2.How good is their control system (FBW) redundant architecture ?
3.Russians call Chinese inferior and Indians call Russians inferiors what's happening who is true
Some other questions are
4.We know about Chinese vessels to defend piracy.But any leak on how effective on job?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avinandan » 02 Aug 2010 13:03

andy B wrote:PLAAF TODAY:

Two part series in ACM June and Junly Issues:

http://ifile.it/tzfs154/PLAAF%20PART%201.zip

http://ifile.it/kjcum1i/PLAAAF%20PART%202.zip


Thanks for this andy.
If only we could get similar stuff for PLAN...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 02 Aug 2010 13:43

Good questions and I had doubts about this for a long time.
prabhug wrote:Hi
I have following doubts on chinese aerospace industry
1.They make aerodynamic changes so fast. How is it possible for them to test it so fast to get it stable ? When rest of the scientist struggle what is the principle which get them that fast ?
Is there a secret collaborator from another country to boost Chinese armament development


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby P Chitkara » 02 Aug 2010 14:38

The informaiton is controlled very tightly to the extent that the news about J10 crash came out after a couple of years the incedent happened.

There is also a possibility that people on the ground may be under pressure to deliver or perish (literally). Just throwing out a posibility here....

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avinandan » 02 Aug 2010 15:10

prabhug wrote:Hi
I have following doubts on chinese aerospace industry
1.They make aerodynamic changes so fast. How is it possible for them to test it so fast to get it stable ? When rest of the scientist struggle what is the principle which get them that fast ?
China have a very strong team of net centric espionage and they have been hacking to various defence computers of various contries such as US, Canada, India to steal secrets and other important documents (that includes defence tech). Hence they have been able to progress quickly. I believe in addition to stealing defence tech they have also got enough development & test related data that aids them in avoiding unnecessary tests. Ex:DSI intakes, Chinese CIWS (http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/weapon/type730.asp).
Additionally they are masters in reverse engineering. The origninal product has anways gone through some of the tests , say finding the optimum length of an artillery gun/barrell, so some part of the development tests are anyways not required for the reverse engineered product.

2.How good is their control system (FBW) redundant architecture ?
It is anybody's guess as most of the details have not been published officially, however some hints and data could be found out by browing through chinese defence forums
3.Russians call Chinese inferior and Indians call Russians inferiors what's happening who is true
Chinese hardware is not always inferior, it may be atmost equivalent to the original product they have reverse engineered or inspired from. Indians mostly call Russian tech inferior on comparison with the western tech
Some other questions are
4.We know about Chinese vessels to defend piracy.But any leak on how effective on job?
Haven't got any info till yet, might be gurus have some idea
Cheers

Prabhu.G

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 02 Aug 2010 21:08

Read in a newspaper today that a Chinese PLA General was washed away while conducting a rescue operation in flood hit NE China. Apparently, tons of chemical explosive filled barrels have been washed with the floods and he was leading a huge PLA contingent trying to retrieve the barrels..

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 03 Aug 2010 01:26

Avinandan wrote:
prabhug wrote:Hi
I have following doubts on chinese aerospace industry
1.They make aerodynamic changes so fast. How is it possible for them to test it so fast to get it stable ? When rest of the scientist struggle what is the principle which get them that fast ?
China have a very strong team of net centric espionage and they have been hacking to various defence computers of various contries such as US, Canada, India to steal secrets and other important documents (that includes defence tech). Hence they have been able to progress quickly. I believe in addition to stealing defence tech they have also got enough development & test related data that aids them in avoiding unnecessary tests. Ex:DSI intakes, Chinese CIWS (http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/weapon/type730.asp).
Additionally they are masters in reverse engineering. The origninal product has anways gone through some of the tests , say finding the optimum length of an artillery gun/barrell, so some part of the development tests are anyways not required for the reverse engineered product.

There is a possibility that there are few countries which are secretly collaborating with PRC govt to help them when these mil developments hit a road block. It could more than one country and it could be half a dozen countries helping PRC to reach international stds.
One example is their satellite launchers had accuracy problem in the 90s. Selective leaks helped them to fix that problem so that they continued to keep the lead.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby abhishek_sharma » 03 Aug 2010 13:26


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby JTull » 03 Aug 2010 21:15

India delivers a googly on China's 'core interest' claim

BEIJING: China's often manages to have its say in diplomatic tug of war by citing its "core interests" that include issues like its land and sea borders with India and Japan, and issues like Tibet and the Dalai Lama.

On Tuesday, India's ambassador S Jaishankar did the diplomatic of a googly when he told the official television: India too has its core interests.

"India too has its core interest. And public perception will always be collared by where other countries stand vis a vis India's core interests," he told CCTV in an interview.

This is the first time that an Indian official has used a public forum to convey that New Delhi finds it as difficult to deviate from its "core interests", a favourite phrase with the Chinese foreign ministry, as Beijing. Jaishankar said it is "fashionable" to talk about "core interests" covering issues like security these days.

"If there is image of China with broader public it is tested against what the public believes are the core interests of India," he said.

Jaishankar also tried to tackle a complaint often voiced by Chinese officials, who wonder why the Indian government has not been able to check what it regards as anti-China coverage.

"When people suggest that we can guide the media better, it shows the lack of understanding of Indian media," he said. "We have fiercely independent media. They pride themselves on the fact that they make their judgment. And they are the people of great integrity," he said.

The interview ended with the ambassador saying he hoped the "Chinese system is more open to importing films" from India to give the local people a taste of Bollywood.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby hnair » 03 Aug 2010 22:33

JTull wrote:India delivers a googly on China's 'core interest' claim

.....
"If there is image of China with broader public it is tested against what the public believes are the core interests of India," he said.




groan..... Phoonk Sundari alert. PLA is going to respond to this in the only way they know. A "cultural committee" suggestion!!

Expect double jointed and dolled up ballet dancers to start touring India relentlessly. IIRC, Khan was meted this treatment during recent times, to get over "hard ass" image of China in US media :mrgreen:

Jaishankar also tried to tackle a complaint often voiced by Chinese officials, who wonder why the Indian government has not been able to check what it regards as anti-China coverage.

"When people suggest that we can guide the media better, it shows the lack of understanding of Indian media," he said. "We have fiercely independent media. They pride themselves on the fact that they make their judgment. And they are the people of great integrity," he said.


Nice move!! They understand only paki rhetoric like "If the PLA cant control parts of our media (operating out of southern cities) then how can we? We ourselves are victims of this same media onlee." :mrgreen:

The interview ended with the ambassador saying he hoped the "Chinese system is more open to importing films" from India to give the local people a taste of Bollywood.


:twisted:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby aditya.agd » 04 Aug 2010 01:50

Do we have accurate information about Chinese military buildup?

Indian defence ministry is not doing enough to protect and winback the land that is illegally acquired by China and Pakistan.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby abhishek_sharma » 04 Aug 2010 03:08


Thomas Kolarek
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Thomas Kolarek » 04 Aug 2010 05:16

Looks like South China sea is the happening place, am sure Taiwan, SK and Vietnam will pull in US help. Good that India's No.1 Enemy is on the receiving end in the other side. If it boils a little over, then India should fish in Baluchistan. Another Bangladesh in making probably ? Hey, Bangladesh and Baluchistan, both start with "B".

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby prabhug » 04 Aug 2010 11:08

Acharya wrote:
Avinandan wrote: There is a possibility that there are few countries which are secretly collaborating with PRC govt to help them when these mil developments hit a road block. It could more than one country and it could be half a dozen countries helping PRC to reach international stds.
One example is their satellite launchers had accuracy problem in the 90s. Selective leaks helped them to fix that problem so that they continued to keep the lead.



what would make somebody to cooperate with china to make its technology better so that he can sell it to poorest cousins?
So why is J10 and bunder still have mechanical controls?
Even for the FBW why the advertised Motorola processor is pretty old ?And why should bakis look to France for a avionics update ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chanakyaa » 05 Aug 2010 05:38

The Politics of the South China Sea: Territoriality and International Law

http://www.southchinasea.org/docs/Burgess,%20Politics%20of%20the%20South%20China%20Sea-Territoriality%20and%20.pdf

THE SEMI-ENCLOSED SOUTH CHINA SEA (SCS) occupies a 648,000- square-mile portion of the Pacific Ocean stretching roughly from the Strait of Malacca in the southwest to the Strait of Taiwan in the north- east. It is thus bordered by China and Taiwan to the north, Vietnam to the west, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, and Singapore to the south and southwest, and the Philippines to the east. The region encompasses hundreds of small islands and reefs, the majority located in the Paracel and Spratly island groups. The actual number of islands, like the question of rights associated with those islands, is contested. Historically, these uninhabited islands have for the most part constituted only hazards for the region’s sea traffic, but they are also often claimed to have considerable strategic and economic value.
.......

Territorial rights to more or less all of the SCS are contested. Six countries are involved in a complex set of territorial claims and contestations. China claims all of the Spratly and Paracel islands and most of the SCS. The grounds for claiming sovereignty to islands are historical and archaeological, referring to naval expeditions by the Han Dynasty in AD 110 and by the Ming Dynasty in the 15th century. China has also claimed the sea as such on historical grounds. In 1947, it released a now famous map featuring nine undefined dotted lines and claimed sovereignty over all territory within those lines. In 1992, China passed a law reasserting its rights. Since then, however, China has increasingly sought to ground its maritime-zone claims in international law. In order to enforce its claims, China is currently occupy- ing eight of the Paracel islands and several reefs in the Spratly islands. Taiwan’s claim is essentially identical to China’s and is based on the same historical legitimization. It occupies the largest island in the Spratlys group. Vietnam claims all of the Spratly islands. It also claims the Paracel islands and extensive portions of the SCS. The Vietnamese also present historical and archaeological arguments to bolster their claims, and Vietnam occupies more of the Spratly islands than any other state in order to enforce its claims in the region. The Philippines both occupy and lay claim to many Spratly islands on the basis of a quasi-juridical notion of ‘proximity’ and through reference to the alleged discovery of the islands by a Philippine explorer in 1956. Malaysia claims the same islands in the southern Spratlys and also grounds its claims on its occupations. Brunei, which occupies none of the islands, claims a huge maritime zone running through the Spratly area. Indonesia claims none of the contested islands, but has an overlapping maritime-zone claim with Vietnam and China.
......

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Don » 05 Aug 2010 16:16

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_ ... ier_killer

Chinese missile could shift Pacific power balance

By ERIC TALMADGE, Associated Press Writer Eric Talmadge, Associated Press Writer – 25 mins ago
ABOARD THE USS GEORGE WASHINGTON – Nothing projects U.S. global air and sea power more vividly than supercarriers. Bristling with fighter jets that can reach deep into even landlocked trouble zones, America's virtually invincible carrier fleet has long enforced its dominance of the high seas.

China may soon put an end to that.

U.S. naval planners are scrambling to deal with what analysts say is a game-changing weapon being developed by China — an unprecedented carrier-killing missile called the Dong Feng 21D that could be launched from land with enough accuracy to penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 1,500 kilometers (900 miles).

___
Analysts say final testing of the missile could come as soon as the end of this year, though questions remain about how fast China will be able to perfect its accuracy to the level needed to threaten a moving carrier at sea.

The weapon, a version of which was displayed last year in a Chinese military parade, could revolutionize China's role in the Pacific balance of power, seriously weakening Washington's ability to intervene in any potential conflict over Taiwan or North Korea. It could also deny U.S. ships safe access to international waters near China's 11,200-mile (18,000-kilometer) -long coastline.

While a nuclear bomb could theoretically sink a carrier, assuming its user was willing to raise the stakes to atomic levels, the conventionally-armed Dong Feng 21D's uniqueness is in its ability to hit a powerfully defended moving target with pin-point precision.

The Chinese Defense Ministry did not immediately respond to the AP's request for a comment.

Funded by annual double-digit increases in the defense budget for almost every year of the past two decades, the Chinese navy has become Asia's largest and has expanded beyond its traditional mission of retaking Taiwan to push its sphere of influence deeper into the Pacific and protect vital maritime trade routes.

"The Navy has long had to fear carrier-killing capabilities," said Patrick Cronin, senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program at the nonpartisan, Washington-based Center for a New American Security. "The emerging Chinese antiship missile capability, and in particular the DF 21D, represents the first post-Cold War capability that is both potentially capable of stopping our naval power projection and deliberately designed for that purpose."

Setting the stage for a possible conflict, Beijing has grown increasingly vocal in its demands for the U.S. to stay away from the wide swaths of ocean — covering much of the Yellow, East and South China seas — where it claims exclusivity.

It strongly opposed plans to hold U.S.-South Korean war games in the Yellow Sea off the northeastern Chinese coast, saying the participation of the USS George Washington supercarrier, with its 1,092-foot (333-meter) flight deck and 6,250 personnel, would be a provocation because it put Beijing within striking range of U.S. F-18 warplanes.

The carrier instead took part in maneuvers held farther away in the Sea of Japan.

U.S. officials deny Chinese pressure kept it away, and say they will not be told by Beijing where they can operate.

"We reserve the right to exercise in international waters anywhere in the world," Rear Adm. Daniel Cloyd, who headed the U.S. side of the exercises, said aboard the carrier during the maneuvers, which ended last week.

But the new missile could undermine that policy.

"China can reach out and hit the U.S. well before the U.S. can get close enough to the mainland to hit back," said Toshi Yoshihara, an associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College. He said U.S. ships have only twice been that vulnerable — against Japan in World War II and against Soviet bombers in the Cold War.

Carrier-killing missiles "could have an enduring psychological effect on U.S. policymakers," he e-mailed to The AP. "It underscores more broadly that the U.S. Navy no longer rules the waves as it has since the end of World War II. The stark reality is that sea control cannot be taken for granted anymore."

Yoshihara said the weapon is causing considerable consternation in Washington, though — with attention focused on land wars in Afghanistan and Iraq — its implications haven't been widely discussed in public.

Analysts note that while much has been made of China's efforts to ready a carrier fleet of its own, it would likely take decades to catch U.S. carrier crews' level of expertise, training and experience.

But Beijing does not need to match the U.S. carrier for carrier. The Dong Feng 21D, smarter, and vastly cheaper, could successfully attack a U.S. carrier, or at least deter it from getting too close.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates warned of the threat in a speech last September at the Air Force Association Convention.

"When considering the military-modernization programs of countries like China, we should be concerned less with their potential ability to challenge the U.S. symmetrically — fighter to fighter or ship to ship — and more with their ability to disrupt our freedom of movement and narrow our strategic options," he said.

Gates said China's investments in cyber and anti-satellite warfare, anti-air and anti-ship weaponry, along with ballistic missiles, "could threaten America's primary way to project power" through its forward air bases and carrier strike groups.

The Pentagon has been worried for years about China getting an anti-ship ballistic missile. The Pentagon considers such a missile an "anti-access," weapon, meaning that it could deny others access to certain areas.

The Air Force's top surveillance and intelligence officer, Lt. Gen. David Deptula, told reporters this week that China's effort to increase anti-access capability is part of a worrisome trend.

He did not single out the DF 21D, but said: "While we might not fight the Chinese, we may end up in situations where we'll certainly be opposing the equipment that they build and sell around the world."

Questions remain over when — and if — China will perfect the technology; hitting a moving carrier is no mean feat, requiring state-of-the-art guidance systems, and some experts believe it will take China a decade or so to field a reliable threat. Others, however, say final tests of the missile could come in the next year or two.

Former Navy commander James Kraska, a professor of international law and sea power at the U.S. Naval War College, recently wrote a controversial article in the magazine Orbis outlining a hypothetical scenario set just five years from now in which a Deng Feng 21D missile with a penetrator warhead sinks the USS George Washington.

That would usher in a "new epoch of international order in which Beijing emerges to displace the United States."

While China's Defense Ministry never comments on new weapons before they become operational, the DF 21D — which would travel at 10 times the speed of sound and carry conventional payloads — has been much discussed by military buffs online.

A pseudonymous article posted on Xinhuanet, website of China's official news agency, imagines the U.S. dispatching the George Washington to aid Taiwan against a Chinese attack.

The Chinese would respond with three salvos of DF 21D, the first of which would pierce the hull, start fires and shut down flight operations, the article says. The second would knock out its engines and be accompanied by air attacks. The third wave, the article says, would "send the George Washington to the bottom of the ocean."

Comments on the article were mostly positive.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Thomas Kolarek » 06 Aug 2010 20:33

Chinese so far were so confident on DF-21, after the test they will go for DF-31,. DF-41. What does India has to counter them ? Does India have a career or anti-ship killer ? Unless we give them tit for tat with more or less advance missiles or weaponry, they will hold edge psychologically.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Don » 06 Aug 2010 20:50

Thursday, August 05, 2010
The "Assembled-In-China" Mi-171


http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... i-171.html

A follow-up on my previous blog entry on the Sino-Russian Mi-171 joint venture (here). In additional to civilian service, it seems that the Chinese assembled Mi-171 has entered service with the PLA 2nd LH regiment, 13th Group Army, Chengdu MR.



Wednesday, December 16, 2009
Update on the Mi-171 helicopter joint venture.
1st pair of the domestically assembled Mi 171 helicopters delivered to Qingdao Helicopter Aviation Company today.


Russia - China starts producing Russian Mi-171 helicopters - paper

10:57 12/05/2008MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti) - A manufacturing plant in southwest China has started to assemble Russian-designed Mi-171 transport helicopters, one of Russia's key arms exports, the Russian business daily Vedomosti said on Monday.
China plans to build at least 20 helicopters in 2008 with assembly kits supplied by a Russian plant in Ulan-Ude and later increase production capacity to 80 aircraft per year.

"We consider this project as the beginning of a trend to assembly Russian helicopters in China," the newspaper quoted a source in Oboronprom, which controls Russian Helicopters, a helicopter manufacturing group.

Mi-171 is an export version of the Mi-8 Hip helicopter, which is currently in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude, fitted with more powerful turboshaft engines.

According to Vedomosti, the Lantian Helicopter Company, based in Sichuan province, has already received orders worth $42.8 million.

"The Chinese are planning to export [Mi-171] helicopters to Pakistan and Africa, which may hurt Russian exports," the source said. "In addition, the successful implementation of the project could leave Russian manufacturers short of component parts."

In 2007, Russian companies only built 120 Mi-171 helicopters, although they had orders for 150 aircraft, due to a shortage of transmissions and rotors, and according to estimates, there are no plans in the future to increase production for these components.

At the same time, some Russian experts believe it is better to allow the Chinese to manufacture helicopters under license rather than sit and wait until China develops its own version, modeled on Russian designs, Vedomosti said.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 06 Aug 2010 21:21

Don wrote:Thursday, August 05, 2010
The "Assembled-In-China" Mi-171


http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... i-171.html

A follow-up on my previous blog entry on the Sino-Russian Mi-171 joint venture (here). In additional to civilian service, it seems that the Chinese assembled Mi-171 has entered service with the PLA 2nd LH regiment, 13th Group Army, Chengdu MR.



Wednesday, December 16, 2009
Update on the Mi-171 helicopter joint venture.
1st pair of the domestically assembled Mi 171 helicopters delivered to Qingdao Helicopter Aviation Company today.


Russia - China starts producing Russian Mi-171 helicopters - paper

10:57 12/05/2008MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti) - A manufacturing plant in southwest China has started to assemble Russian-designed Mi-171 transport helicopters, one of Russia's key arms exports, the Russian business daily Vedomosti said on Monday.
China plans to build at least 20 helicopters in 2008 with assembly kits supplied by a Russian plant in Ulan-Ude and later increase production capacity to 80 aircraft per year.

"We consider this project as the beginning of a trend to assembly Russian helicopters in China," the newspaper quoted a source in Oboronprom, which controls Russian Helicopters, a helicopter manufacturing group.

Mi-171 is an export version of the Mi-8 Hip helicopter, which is currently in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude, fitted with more powerful turboshaft engines.

According to Vedomosti, the Lantian Helicopter Company, based in Sichuan province, has already received orders worth $42.8 million.

"The Chinese are planning to export [Mi-171] helicopters to Pakistan and Africa, which may hurt Russian exports," the source said. "In addition, the successful implementation of the project could leave Russian manufacturers short of component parts."

In 2007, Russian companies only built 120 Mi-171 helicopters, although they had orders for 150 aircraft, due to a shortage of transmissions and rotors, and according to estimates, there are no plans in the future to increase production for these components.

At the same time, some Russian experts believe it is better to allow the Chinese to manufacture helicopters under license rather than sit and wait until China develops its own version, modeled on Russian designs, Vedomosti said.


So the Russians are teaching the Chinese to build heavy lift helicopters and engines too, both the Mi-26 and the Mi-171..

how much time will pass by before this short sighted decision of the Russians will lead to reverse engineered Chinese knock-offs proliferating ? Once the Chinese master this class of helis, they'll mass produce them and stop paying any royalty or licence fees to the Russians and they'll go around complaining about being ripped off..Or maybe the Russians know fully well that it will happen that way and want to make a few bucks before the Chinese do it themselves anyway.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Surya » 06 Aug 2010 22:25

kartik

one can only hope the Russians learn - but i have my doubts.

We just have to plan for the eventuality and get our act together

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 07 Aug 2010 01:12

Surya wrote:kartik

one can only hope the Russians learn - but i have my doubts.

We just have to plan for the eventuality and get our act together


Surya, earlier it was the Dauphin that Eurocopter allowed China to assemble and they quickly reverse engineered it into the Z-9 and the Z-10 attack helicopter (Munna bought some Harbin Z-9 helis with its newly acquired Cheeni destroyers). Eurocopter's rule was to basically transfer outdated technology or assembly lines (or so they thought) such as the Super Frelon when they moved to newer products, but the Russians are basically threatening their own bread and butter product line, the Mi-17 which is still massively popular the world over. The Mi-38 is not yet close to being in production and my only guess is that the Russkies feel that by the time the Chinese rip off the Mi-17 design, they would've moved on to the Mi-38 production line.

what irks me is that the Russian hand-holding has basically allowed the Chinese to progress relatively quickly in several technological spheres, ranging from radar technology, electro-optics, active and passive seekers, aerodynamics, turbomachinery down to high quality manufacturing and quality control..of course the latter has also benefitted from the short sighted European policy of setting up massive aero assembly lines in China, which involves top of the line manufacturing and quality methods if not major design data transfer. But many people under-estimate the importance of even ToT or screw-driver technology (which is pooh-poohed as being screw-driver giri) as the culture of high tech manufacturing and inspection will only mean better quality products down the line when China starts designing its own aero products. Once you master the art of high tech manufacturing processes and a generation of Cheeni mechanics and technicians do this kind of work, there is no looking back..the automotive sector is already witnessing that, with the quality of Chinese automobiles steadily improving as they begin to acquire the experience in manufacturing.

The culmination of the Russian and European help and technology transfer to the Chinese will come back to bite them (and us since we need to stay on par with them while they supply chotta Munna across the border at subsidised prices) big time in the coming decades when China begins to seriously compete in all major classes of aero products, from light, medium and heavy helicopters. Already we're seeing one form of that where EU nations cannot afford to even buy their own designed 4th gen fighters in the originally stated numbers and will eventually be likely to exit the manned 5th gen fighter business while China, which has now imbibed much of the technological largesse of Russia and EU, competes with Russia and the US for a share in a huge market world wide.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Hari Seldon » 07 Aug 2010 09:05

Kartik wrote:China has reverse engineered the Su-33 into the J-15 variant..its already flying if this picture isn't a fake.

post link from Keypub forums


Wow. Am impressed.

The cheenis have aero-engine tech mastered pretty much then, I surmise. Mighty soon the pakis may have that too, who knows?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby paramyog » 07 Aug 2010 14:46

Having DPRK/ North Korea as their छोटा जोडीदार in the sea of Japan, Chinese have already exercised their supremacy in the East. Every time they want to poke the Yanks via the DPRK, they can jus tell their छोटू to sink a South Korean ship and create a mess.
With the Paki-DPRK relations being facilitated by the PRC, Chinese have already created enough strategic space for themselves. Not to mention, most Jehadi organisations have been their primary customers of small arms, its serving the PLA's purpose of wearing out the US Ground forces in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The previous article made pretty much sense.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby aditp » 07 Aug 2010 18:13

^^^ That wearing down, may actually translate into battle hardening of US troops to give the panda a bloody nose in any future engagement

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 10 Aug 2010 02:30

Missiles testfired by China

Seven types of ground-to-air weaponry, including a new type of ground-to-air missile and another state-of-the-art anti-aircraft gun, were used in intercepting and concentrating fire on air targets, state media reported.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Thomas Kolarek » 11 Aug 2010 00:48

Have any one noticed this ? http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2010/08/chinese-air-force-tests-missile.html
Some of the projects such as the construction of new airports in Tibet and increasing the freight capacity of the railway line to Tibet have been expedited and sought to be executed ahead of schedule. Why this hurry? Are the increasing activities of its infrastructure builders in Tibet indicative of its preparing itself for a military conflict with India if it decides that the time has come to force India to stop its infrastructure projects in Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims as southern Tibet. Military-related developments in China having a bearing on its relations with Vietnam and India need close attention.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 11 Aug 2010 11:36

Thomas Kolarek wrote:Have any one noticed this ? http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2010/08/chinese-air-force-tests-missile.html
Some of the projects such as the construction of new airports in Tibet and increasing the freight capacity of the railway line to Tibet have been expedited and sought to be executed ahead of schedule. Why this hurry? Are the increasing activities of its infrastructure builders in Tibet indicative of its preparing itself for a military conflict with India if it decides that the time has come to force India to stop its infrastructure projects in Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims as southern Tibet. Military-related developments in China having a bearing on its relations with Vietnam and India need close attention.


That's silly, it's most likely a combination of China's initiative to develop the comparatively undeveloped west and additional funding from stimulus money. I don't see how constructing infrastructure can in any way force India to stop constructing infrastructure on their side. If anything, it'd have the exact opposite effect.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Thomas Kolarek » 12 Aug 2010 04:33

DavidD wrote:That's silly, it's most likely a combination of China's initiative to develop the comparatively undeveloped west and additional funding from stimulus money. I don't see how constructing infrastructure can in any way force India to stop constructing infrastructure on their side. If anything, it'd have the exact opposite effect.


Well it sounded silly back in 1962. Both then and now we have an ego-centric person sitting at helm. 2010-2012 we had to go thru this phase very watchfully with China.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ramana » 13 Aug 2010 03:42

Ashai Shimbun says on PRC aircraft carrier plans:

China's Flattop plans

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby yantra » 13 Aug 2010 07:25

US report raises concern over China's missile programmes

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 301352.cms

"The United States continues to note that the voluntary BWC CBM (confidence building measure) declarations China has submitted have neither documented that offensive programme, nor documented that China has eliminated the programme or any remaining biological munitions in accordance with Article II of BWC," says the latest compliance report that covers between 2004 and 2008.

On India, the report states that there is no reason to believe that its "biological research and development activities were inconsistent with its BWC obligations".

India, which ratified BWC in 1974, has repeatedly called for a return to negotiations on a BWC verification instrument and for international cooperation to support its implementation.

The US document also states that Chinese companies have continued to supply missile programmes "in countries of concern" despite Beijing's November 2000 commitment not to assist "in any way, any country in the development of ballistic missiles that can be used to deliver nuclear weapons (i.e., missiles capable of delivering a payload of at least 500 kilograms to a distance of at least 300 kilometres)."

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Don » 13 Aug 2010 11:31

China KJ-2000 is modelled after the Phalcon. I am not surprise I think there was a transfer of tech to the Chinese by the Israeli covertly.

China’s Eyes in the Skies

http://the-diplomat.com/2010/08/11/chin ... the-skies/

The airborne C3ISR segment has also seen investment, with three concurrent programmes to develop AWACS/AEW&C capabilities. Following the abortive KJ-1 effort, the PLA invested in developing a conventional system carried by the Y-8. This system was supplanted by the KJ-200, which uses electronically steered active phased array radar technology that’s two generations ahead of the mechanically steered technology used by the US.

The much larger KJ-2000 AWACS, which also uses active phased array radar, is directly modeled on Israel’s A-50I and Elta Phalcon radar. The PLA had actually negotiated the purchase of the A-50I, only to have the Clinton administration block the sale, resulting in an acrimonious war of words. As a consequence, the Chinese made a national commitment to build their own—resulting a decade later in the recently deployed milestone of the KJ-2000.

All this means that China is deploying a modern, high technology air defence system based largely on the same or more advanced basic technologies used by the US, EU and Russia in their systems.

Once fully deployed and matured, this system will be effectively impregnable to regional air forces, and largely impregnable to US naval air power, itself the victim of chronic underinvestment. Indeed, the technology being deployed in strength by the PLA is so sophisticated that only the small planned inventory of US Air Force B-2A Spirit and F-22 Raptor aircraft will be capable of confidently penetrating a post-2015 PLA air defence network.

Washington, meanwhile, has yet to appreciate the long-term strategic implications of this developing West Pacific environment.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 14 Aug 2010 03:54

Asia is beginning to stand up to China — with US help: Gordon Chang

ndia’s move to prospect for oil off Vietnam, in an area that China claims as its own, could create friction with China, but India shouldn’t flinch from defending its interests, he adds.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 14 Aug 2010 08:53

^^^^

Critics of your book say that China hasn’t ‘collapsed’ in the time frame you set, and you’ve been proved wrong. How do you respond to that?

We’ve to wait until August, 2011, to say for sure. But right now, it’s hard to be optimistic about China’s economy or its political system. I know many people have a bullish view of China, but you also see a lot of investors — Jim Chanos, Marc Faber — who are figuring out how to short-sell China. They’re not political persons, they have no incentive to upset Beijing. They’re like me: they call them as they see them. People are becoming concerned about the Chinese economy, and there are signs that things won’t turn out the way the optimists read it. I’m deeply sceptical: the closer you look at it, the worse it looks.

What do you expect to happen between now and August, 2011, that hasn’t happened until now?

What we will see in China is a prolonged, sharp economic contraction; for a couple of quarters in end-2008 and early 2009, we did have zero growth in China — and probably even negative growth. What we’ll see is a more prolonged contraction.

The Chinese think they’ve solved their economic problems. They temporarily bridged a difficult period, but they did so at the cost of creating problems that are more difficult to solve. They’re going to pay an enormous price. They can postpone the inevitable, but they’re going to make the final reckoning even worse. A year from now you’re going to see a very different economy in China.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby JimmyJ » 14 Aug 2010 10:52

Will retaliate if offended by US, warns China Gen

A Chinese General on Friday termed as "flagrant provocation" US plans to send a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to the Yellow Sea and said the country would retaliate if "offended".

"A country needs respect, so does a military. We will retaliate if we are offended," Major General Luo Yuan, deputy secretary-general of the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Academy of Military Sciences, wrote in an editorial in the PLA Daily.

The US is "pushing its security boundary to the doorstep of others — the Yellow Sea, South China Sea and so on," Luo said.

China is developing a new missile called Dong Feng 21D, that could penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 1,500km.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Deepak_D » 17 Aug 2010 04:10

If a missile is locked on a target, will shooting the guidance satellite deter the path of missile ? I am no expert, but I just thought, if DF21 is fired, it has to be guided from a satellite and the homing computer on the missile itself will take inputs from launcher or satellite. If shooting down the Satellite can kill ( I mean deter the path of) the missile accuracy, then why would US be wary of not perfecting the AEGIS system to kill DF21?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby yantra » 17 Aug 2010 08:04

Acharya wrote:^^^^

Critics of your book say that China hasn’t ‘collapsed’ in the time frame you set, and you’ve been proved wrong. How do you respond to that?

We’ve to wait until August, 2011, to say for sure. But right now, it’s hard to be optimistic about China’s economy or its political system. I know many people have a bullish view of China, but you also see a lot of investors — Jim Chanos, Marc Faber — who are figuring out how to short-sell China. They’re not political persons, they have no incentive to upset Beijing. They’re like me: they call them as they see them. People are becoming concerned about the Chinese economy, and there are signs that things won’t turn out the way the optimists read it. I’m deeply sceptical: the closer you look at it, the worse it looks.

What do you expect to happen between now and August, 2011, that hasn’t happened until now?

What we will see in China is a prolonged, sharp economic contraction; for a couple of quarters in end-2008 and early 2009, we did have zero growth in China — and probably even negative growth. What we’ll see is a more prolonged contraction.

The Chinese think they’ve solved their economic problems. They temporarily bridged a difficult period, but they did so at the cost of creating problems that are more difficult to solve. They’re going to pay an enormous price. They can postpone the inevitable, but they’re going to make the final reckoning even worse. A year from now you’re going to see a very different economy in China.


The bottom line is that the Chinese are smarter than what most western powers give them credit for. They have been so far able to maneuver around crises that the West predicted would befall on them, and still rise to be the second biggest economy in the world to-day. The US and Europeans fall easily for greed and short-term gains, and the Chinese know how to leverage this effectively to their strategic advantage. They are now at a point where the rest of the world cannot afford to have them fail.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sudip » 17 Aug 2010 10:10


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby derkonig » 17 Aug 2010 12:27

China deploys CSS-5 missiles along India border, wonder if MMS will ever wake up

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/China-deploys-new-CCS-5-missiles-on-border-with-India/articleshow/6324105.cms


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