China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby jai » 23 Sep 2010 00:06

The current F magazine features an interview with Retd Lt Gen Gautam Datt on Boarder roads. While one can appreciate the conditions BR operates in, its alarming to note that all the current border road improvement projects are not completing anytime soon. The earliest ones only by 2015 or so, complete connectivity in NE / Laddakh only by 2020 as per his projections.....
The planned work window is 100 - 120 days a year ! All projects are at least 2 years long...raw material is moved in the first year and work happens in the next....

One would think roads would be addressed at a war footing..at least now after all the noise from PMO etc ...but this seems far from it.......considering that airforce has to maintain all the troops in NE/Laddakh by air....does seem to be a huge national waste and cost for not running BRO full steam and not getting a robust road infra in place for all these years !

Not to speak of all the key equipment that needs to be deployed and is not - as it can not reach there as the current roads are not good enough...

Leads me to question why do the state goverments not join hands with BRO in expediting and maintaining their border roads, after all, these roads are a lifeline for their citizens too in all the extreme areas.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Craig Alpert » 23 Sep 2010 01:34

Two Russians detained on suspicion of spying for China
SAINT PETERSBURG: Two Russian scientists are being held in a high-security Moscow prison while being investigated on suspicion of spying for China, a lawyer for one of the scientists said today.

The two men, Svyatoslav Bobyshev and Yevgeny Afanasyev, who are both university academics, are being held in Lefortovo jail while being investigated for "high treason and espionage," Bobyshev's lawyer Dmitry Agranovsky told AFP.

Lefortovo is a high-security prison in Moscow used by the KGB in the Soviet times and by its successor FSB, or the Federal Security Service, since 1995.

Today, Bobyshev's defence lost an appeal against his pre-trial detention, the Interfax news agency reported, citing Moscow City Court.

The two men teach at Voenmekh University in Saint Petersburg, an engineering school with a military slant, working in a department that specialised in technical equipment for rockets and space vehicles.

They also lectured at China's Harbin Technical University as part of an exchange programme.
...............

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 23 Sep 2010 04:16

ASEAN invites India, US to keep China in check

The presence of India and the United States at a meeting on the Asia-Pacific region’s security architecture, being organised by the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) for the first time next month, is likely to make China uncomfortable. China has long-standing sovereignty disputes over sections of the South China Sea — which contain valuable reserves of oil and natural gas — with four ASEAN members: Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia. It has repeatedly stressed that it wants to resolve its differences without any external interference.

Beijing has been increasingly belligerent in stressing its claims with these much smaller countries. It may well perceive India and the US’s participation in the meet being held in Vietnam — Defence Minister A.K. Antony will travel to Hanoi on October 11 — as the first step towards just the kind of power balancing it wants to avoid.

Apart from Asean members, eight more countries have been invited: the six neighbour countries that are already associated with Asean without being members (India, Australia, China, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea), along with two newcomers: the US and Russia.

“China will find itself in a spot at the meeting. The US, Russia and India add to the forum’s influence. These countries will read the riot act to China for its growing assertiveness,” said Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak (retd), strategic affairs expert.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Prem » 23 Sep 2010 22:31

China launches remote sensing satellite
China launched Wednesday a remote sensing satellite that will also likely be used by the military. The Long March 2D lifted off from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center at 10:42 pm EDT Tuesday (0242 GMT, 10:42 Beijing time Wednesday) and placed the Yaogan 11 satellite into orbit. The satellite, according to official Chinese media, will be used for various scientific and earth observation applications, but is widely considered by Western observers to be a military reconnaissance satellite. The launch was the fifth by China in less than two months
.
http://www.spacetoday.net/Summary/5058

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 24 Sep 2010 12:45

Marten wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:
I find this very troubling indeed. It seems even the chinese have given up pretensions to 'face' and are becoming, if slowly, more open to admitting prototype development failures and the like, more like a 'normal' country than the infalliable superpower wannabe. If even the PLA can set aside H&D issues in favor of 'truth', they are a formidable foe indeed.

More likely that the crash was already covered by foreign ("inimical" for China, of course) interests and they decided to reduce the impact by releasing the information. Giving up of pretensions will be when they accept the WS10a/b/z are failing by the dozen and that the vaunted manufacturing capabilities are limited to cheap copies of low fidelity products.

Good to know the pilots are safe. Happier to know China will learn it isn't easy copying designs. For the detractors of Indian designers, this should come as a lesson.


You do realize that the WS-10 is an engine for fighter jets right?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Philip » 24 Sep 2010 15:33

The pakis are trying to kick the S'Poreans out of Gwadar and gift it to the mandarin-monkeys of the PRC!

Naval chief wants Gwadar deal cancelled
By Iftikhar A Khan

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... he-neNaval chief wants Gwadar deal cancelled By Iftikhar A Khanwspaper/front-page/naval-chief-wants-gwadar-deal-cancelled-490

ISLAMABAD: Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Noman Basheer said here on Thursday that the Gwadar Port was not serving the purpose for which it had been build and, therefore, an agreement with the Port of Singapore Authority (PSA) for management of facilities and development of infrastructure should be cancelled.

“The agreement is one-sided and a lot of incentives have been given to the PSA,” he said while talking to reporters after presiding over a book launching ceremony at the Bahria University.

He said the government should review the concessionary deal because the PSA had not been able to develop the port up to its potential.

Admiral Basheer said the PSA was to be given 2,500 acres of land under the deal, while the navy was being accused of illegally possessing 500-600 acres of it.

“The (ministry of) ports and shipping should stop finding excuses and levelling allegations and focus its attention on the national asset the potential of which is yet to be exploited.”

CHINESE SUBMARINES:
The naval chief said talks were under way with China for six to eight submarines and the quality and cost were the basic factors behind the move.

He said the talks were launched after a deal with Germany for four submarines could not be finalised because of exorbitant cost.

However, he said, both countries were still negotiating to resolve the issue.

Admiral Basheer said Pakistan badly needed submarines because four of the six submarines in the fleet had passed their life and the other two needed to be refurbished.

He said China was a time-tested friend of Pakistan and the only country in Asia which had developed expertise in building submarines.

The delivery schedule and cost also suited Pakistan’s needs.

“We can seek soft loan from China to fund the submarine project,” he said, adding that the time factor in acquisition of the submarines was of paramount importance.

The naval chief said eight used frigates would be acquired from the United States and they would have to be refurbished before their induction into the fleet. He said Pakistan Navy had to build its capacity to tackle multiple challenges ranging from piracy and terrorism to drugs and human smuggling.

The admiral said he was unaware of reports that he was being appointed chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kartik » 24 Sep 2010 23:06

I hope the Indian media takes this "6-8 Chinese submarines for Pakis" story and runs to town with it..nothing wakes up the GoI and the MoD babus like the Pakis getting arms..it might put a few more wheels under the P-75I submarine acquisition program although even now, the planned total number of subs in the IN for the sheer size of our coastline is pitiful.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 25 Sep 2010 02:34

Marten wrote:
DavidD wrote:You do realize that the WS-10 is an engine for fighter jets right?

Your point being?


...that it has nothing to do with the Z-9 helicopter?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby TonyMontana » 25 Sep 2010 02:57

Marten wrote:
DavidD wrote:You do realize that the WS-10 is an engine for fighter jets right?

Your point being?


It proves that it is impossible for the Chinese to design and build an engine for fighter jets. It illustrates the lack of creative abilities in the Chinese, who is only good at mindless cloning. I think that was the point.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby yantra » 25 Sep 2010 03:06

The move to hand over Gwadar to China, among other things, may just be the first step to replace the erstwhile IPI (Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline) into a new reality - Iran-Pakistan-China (IPC). ... The Chinese will build Gwadar as tax-free industrial hub which may include oil and gas refineries and a network of roads and railways from Gwadar to China through the ancient silk route. An ambitious deal to build railways along the Khunjrab pass has already been signed between Pakistan and China. ...The Chinese have the capacity to not only make Gwadar port viable but can complete the expansion plan, which includes increasing the existing three berths to 18 by 2014. The volume of the Chinese trade is so much that Gwadar can beat regional giants like Dubai hands down if China could divert only a fraction of its trade to pass to its burgeoning western regions through the mighty Karakorams......The project is bound to arch lots of eyebrows in India on our east and NATO forces, read the US, sitting on our right flank.China has capitalised on India’s loss. Beijing and Islamabad had set up an agreement whereby China would import most of this Iranian gas left by India. Islamabad hopes to make a billion dollar a year just from transit fee. "

in an interview over the State radio on December 28, 2009,on the need for a naval base in the Indian Ocean region, Rear Admiral Yin Zhou, an expert of the Chinese Navy, said: “I believe that a relatively stable, relatively solid base for resupply and repair would be appropriate. Such a base would provide a steady source of fresh food, along with facilities for communications, ship repair and recreation. Any definite decision to establish such a base would have to be taken by the Communist Party. Supplying and maintaining the ( Chinese) fleet off Somalia was challenging without such a base. Other nations were unlikely to object.

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r4048.html

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 25 Sep 2010 20:59

Kartik wrote:I hope the Indian media takes this "6-8 Chinese submarines for Pakis" story and runs to town with it..nothing wakes up the GoI and the MoD babus like the Pakis getting arms..it might put a few more wheels under the P-75I submarine acquisition program although even now, the planned total number of subs in the IN for the sheer size of our coastline is pitiful.

Good point...

Its finally what Pak gets which forces GoI hand and makes it buy much needed equipment which it otherwise will sit on for years ( Like the MiG-29, M-2000, SU-30, T-90 etc)..

Sometimes i feel that IN should get such stories planted in Paki papers about imminent SSK arrivals to PN to get GoI into action.. :mrgreen:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avarachan » 25 Sep 2010 22:32

Regarding the Iran-Pakistan-China pipeline, keep in mind that the political situation in Iran and Balochistan is extremely unstable. The situation very well might not turn out as Communist China wishes.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chackojoseph » 25 Sep 2010 22:42

^^^^ As far as the mood in Balochistan is concerned, Chinese won't be able to operate anything there. They paid Gwadar for nothing.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avarachan » 25 Sep 2010 22:49

Chacko, I wouldn't be that confident. Perhaps. Perhaps not. One wishes that the GoI were more aggressive. I expect the U.S. and Russia to get involved in this, too. Also, I expect something big to happen with Iran soon. The Russian decision not to sell Iran the S-300 SAM's is very significant.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby JimmyJ » 25 Sep 2010 22:59

Avarachan wrote:Regarding the Iran-Pakistan-China pipeline, keep in mind that the political situation in Iran and Balochistan is extremely unstable. The situation very well might not turn out as Communist China wishes.



'Unstable' Well all those countries in the world have excellent relationship with China, it is the stable ones that don't have one ;)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Avarachan » 25 Sep 2010 23:03

You're right. That's why the long-term outlook of China's foreign policy is not good. Both of their main proxy states--Pakistan and North Korea--are in serious trouble. This presents a great opportunity for us, if we are bold and wise enough to grasp it.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manum » 25 Sep 2010 23:20

Last time I was seeing Times now...and there were four experts from Outside, British, US, Hongkong and Pukes...and one Indian of course...course of talk was nuclear deal between two obvious nations...
everything happened obviously, Pakistani guy not letting Indian one speak...USA obviously criticizing, Chinese having precise pointers, he also quoted recent military exercise of Indian navies and USA navy around China...

but anyways...our key question was, What can we do? Will USA back us on it? Will USA stand on its word?
It is annoying to have a mud slinging neighbour...
I still feel we don't have teeth to bite...nor we go on and push the agenda...we never become clear of what we want to do...
I still feel...they all think we are made of butter...and we think too much about opinions, than simply putting things in perspective of National Interest...

Things are moving very fast these days around us...we Got to catch up...

and our commonwealth games arrangements wrt to China olympics, have raised serious doubts about whatever we say about our capabilities...lets forget the grandeur, the basics facilities were also too bad...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 26 Sep 2010 02:48

Marten wrote:
TonyMontana wrote:It proves that it is impossible for the Chinese to design and build an engine for fighter jets. It illustrates the lack of creative abilities in the Chinese, who is only good at mindless cloning. I think that was the point.

Impossible might be too harsh. It is not a low fidelity product that can be solved by throwing labor or money. It will require immense effort. Even if one of Pakistan's attack helicopters is sacrificed to the task, China will find designing ground up a difficult task.

TonyMontana: The original post talks of cheap (cost-wise) copies of low fidelity products. He would've caught up in a few days, but thanks all the same.


:rotfl: I think you're missing both mine and tony's points.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 26 Sep 2010 04:36

is it too hard to understand that he meant the WZ-10 attack helicopter and not the WS-10 engine ?
why this fascination with meaningless typos ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 26 Sep 2010 08:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4zX2MAFy98
China Bullys India

Indian had better be careful what they wish for because they just may get it. It is clear to everyone india is the aggressor and even though the chinese are very patient and tolerant, they will not tolerate india's belligerence forever. Even india's own government has stepped in to warn the media not to exaggerate and distort the border issue because it was getting out of hand. The indian population are thinking that there's an imminent invasion any second now. Shame on them.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby DavidD » 26 Sep 2010 08:50

Rahul M wrote:is it too hard to understand that he meant the WZ-10 attack helicopter and not the WS-10 engine ?
why this fascination with meaningless typos ?


He didn't.

Also, rumor has it that China just failed a missile defense test. This was a terminal defense one, not the same as the previous one which was a mid-course interception. While we're at it, China also rolled out a new submarine, seems like a heavily modified 039A(039B perhaps?).

SIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2010


Jane's Defence Weekly


Mystery Chinese SSK fuels Asia's submarine race

Ted Parsons JDW Correspondent - Washington, DC

The China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation has launched an unidentified new-type conventional submarine (SSK) at its Wuhan shipyard, according to Chinese reports on 9 September.

It is the third new SSK design revealed by China since 1994 and is likely to exacerbate regional anxieties that are propelling many Asian states to increase or establish submarine fleets.

Vague or altered internet images of this new SSK, which first appeared on the popular Chinese CALF web page on 10 September, led observers to think that it may be yet another Chinese internet hoax, but the submarine's existence was confirmed by much clearer images on 13 September.

While not much larger than the 3,000- to 4,000-ton Type 041 Yuan class, the new boat appears to incorporate Russian design influences, including a stouter hull with a reduced aft taper similar to the Project 667 Lada/Amur class, plus an elongated sail and hull-mounted retractable hydroplanes similar to the Project 636 'Kilo' class. However, in contrast to the sail of the 'Kilo', the new Chinese SSK incorporates hydrodynamic elements such as an intricately-faired leading edge with concave and convex curves.

While there remains a possibility that China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has engaged Russia's Rubin submarine design bureau to aid future submarine designs during previous encounters, Rubin representatives, while ready to confirm their willingness to sell new submarines to China, have refused to comment on possible co-operation with China. From late 1994 to 2006, the PLAN took delivery of eight Project 636 boats and four of the older Project 877 design Rubin-designed 'Kilo'-class SSKs.

Beyond what can be seen from the initial images, not much else is known about the size, features, main mission or capabilities of this new SSK. There is ample speculation on Chinese websites that the larger sail may house anti-ship cruise missiles, anti-aircraft missiles or a new crew-rescue capsule. At the 2008 Zhuhai Airshow the China Aerospace Science and Industries Corporation revealed its C-705: a new smaller anti-ship cruise missile that could fit in the sail of this new SSK. There is also speculation that the new SSK uses a new double-hull design to improve combat survivability.

The Yuan-class is reported to use a new air-independent propulsion (AIP) system based on the concept of the Swedish Stirling engine, and it is known that Chinese naval research institutes have been investigating fuel cell and exhaust recycling AIP designs similar to the French MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome), so this new SSK may well utilise some form of AIP. There is also speculation that it may use a new propulsor pump, but this is considered unlikely as it would not be optimal for a slow-speed patrol profile. Early images of the aft area of the new SSK do not reveal a towed-array housing above the waterline, so it cannot be concluded that the new boat may have a greater anti-submarine capability.

Already China's growing submarine fleet is prompting regional reactions. China launched 13 Type 039 Song-class SSKs from 1994 to 2004 and, in addition to the 12 Russian-sourced 'Kilos' now in service, the US Department of Defense expects the PLAN will build up to 15 Yuan-class SSKs; five had been launched by mid-2010. In July it was revealed that Japan would revise its Defense Guidelines to allow for an increase from 16 to 20 submarines. However, some Japanese sources have told Jane's that a submarine life extension is being considered to allow this fleet to increase up to 25.

In addition to its nine licence-produced German Type 209/1200 SSKs, South Korea plans to build nine KSS-2 (licence-produced Type 214) SSKs by 2020, after which it may build up to six KSS-3 follow on SSKs. In late 2009 Vietnam completed a deal to purchase six 'Kilo' Project 636 SSKs with expected delivery between 2013 and 2019. Australia's Sea 1000 programme aims to replace its current six Collins-class submarines with 12 new SSKs starting in 2025. In 2005 Singapore purchased two AIP-equipped Archer-class (Västergötland) SSKs from Sweden, the first of which was completed in 2009. This year Malaysia has taken delivery of the second of two French and Spanish-built Scorpene-class SSKs while Indonesia is planning to acquire submarines by the end of the decade. While proposed for sale by the United States in 2001, Taiwan and the US have yet to finalise a programme by which Taiwan can acquire up to eight new SSKs.


Other unrelated updates:

Smoke is coming out of the Varyag's main stack, perhaps some sort of generator/engine test.

A new destroyer is close to being launched(052C+?) at the Jiangnan shipyard.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby arnabh » 26 Sep 2010 09:17


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chackojoseph » 26 Sep 2010 12:14

Avarachan wrote:Chacko, I wouldn't be that confident. Perhaps. Perhaps not. One wishes that the GoI were more aggressive. I expect the U.S. and Russia to get involved in this, too. Also, I expect something big to happen with Iran soon. The Russian decision not to sell Iran the S-300 SAM's is very significant.


I am basing it on the amount of cooperation I am able to get from my sources. Currently I am concentrating on the gross human rights violations by Pakistani forces ( link).

Baloch's have botched any Chinese chances of meddling there. Iran, China and Pakistanis are not welcome there. They might manage to run somethings there , but, not the size of Gwadar and pipelines.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby dinesha » 26 Sep 2010 12:23

China tests its strategic air power capability: Implications for India
B. Raman
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2010/09 ... power.html
...

The theme of the Peace Mission 2010 exercise currently being held is not known, but it is noticed that the Chinese have tested during the exercise their capability for mounting long-distance air operations involving the use of bombers and fighter planes. A Xinhua report of September 21 on this part of the exercise stated as follows: “Six warplanes took off from within China and launched long-distance "sudden attacks" in neighboring Kazakhstan in the on-going anti-terror drill of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, said a Chinese General. The simulated cross-border strikes were the first by the Chinese Air Force, according to Major General Meng Guoping, deputy commander of the Chinese military participating in the drill. The six warplanes --- four H-6H bombers and two J-10 fighter jets --- were split into two missions. They were supported by an air early warning aircraft and were refueled by a flying tanker before they crossed the border into Kazakhstan, said the General. Although the drill venue is within the range of both warplanes, they were refueled in the air to ensure a complete success of their missions, said General Meng. Meng said by carrying out such a move in the war games, the Chinese Air Force is trying to build an integrated air battle group encompassing early warning, command, long-distance bombing, escort and air refueling. “

Gen. Ma Xiaotian has reportedly described the exercise as purely a strategic action against terrorism not directed against any country. The Chinese media has quoted him as saying : “The ongoing exericse never targets or constitutes a threat to any country.”

The capability for long-distance air operations of the kind tested by the Chinese would have little use against urban terrorist groups such as the Islamic Movement of East Turkestan (IMET) operating in Chinese-controlled Xinjiang. They would be more relevant for possible use against India in the event of a military conflict. The indications are that the Chinese have tested their capability for strategic air strikes against Indian positions across the Tibetan border by making use of the current SCO counter-terrorism exercises in Kazakhstan. The Indian observer to the exercise, if there is one, should be able to throw more light on this. India is an observer of the SCO.

..

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chackojoseph » 26 Sep 2010 18:48

I just typed out this few minutes back. Hope folks like it

China’s fishing trawler offensive

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby SriSri » 26 Sep 2010 20:21

chackojoseph wrote:I just typed out this few minutes back. Hope folks like it

China’s fishing trawler offensive


Interesting. Never knew this incident was preceded by numerous other fishing trailer incidents.

It's obvious why China wanted the captain's release. He could have been serving PLAN. Japan should've narcoanalysis'd him.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Hari Seldon » 26 Sep 2010 21:42

chackojoseph wrote:Baloch's have botched any Chinese chances of meddling there. Iran, China and Pakistanis are not welcome there. They might manage to run somethings there , but, not the size of Gwadar and pipelines.


Why would the Balochis have any beef with china? Iran and Pak, I understand.

I ask because PRC can still try to buy out Balochi opposition. IIRC, Baloch population is only ~ 5 million. IOW, 1 million families. A coupla billion USD - loose change really for PRC, can go a long way in making an asset the size and location of Gawadar operational on a consistent and secure basis. I'm sure PRC would at least have tried this approach but the TSPA would be reeeally unhappy if money supply directly reaches the Balochis bypassing it. And if it goes through TSPA, nothing emerges out of the other end for the balochis, am sure.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 26 Sep 2010 21:51

the way things are going we'd better pull up our pants and make double-time on all fronts defence and economy.

the panda is coming on strong...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chackojoseph » 27 Sep 2010 07:54

Hari Seldon wrote:Why would the Balochis have any beef with china? Iran and Pak, I understand.

I ask because PRC can still try to buy out Balochi opposition. IIRC, Baloch population is only ~ 5 million. IOW, 1 million families. A coupla billion USD - loose change really for PRC, can go a long way in making an asset the size and location of Gawadar operational on a consistent and secure basis. I'm sure PRC would at least have tried this approach but the TSPA would be reeeally unhappy if money supply directly reaches the Balochis bypassing it. And if it goes through TSPA, nothing emerges out of the other end for the balochis, am sure.


During Mush's era Chinese were asking for sovereign guarantees.

As long as Pakistani Punjabi's are involved, IMHO, we need not worry about Chinese getting in that region in a significant way.

Even if you see, Iran too cannot influence Balochistan. Iran is equally hated like Pakistani Punjabis.

As long as Chinese deal with Pakistani Punjabi's or Iranian's, the Baloch's won't entertain. But, at the same time, China cannot deal with Baloch's alone as the Pakistanis and Iranians will object.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manum » 27 Sep 2010 09:08

how about longer term increased economic activity, and companies having local faces...not the Chinese ones....
If Chinese really want, they'll get it...given pukes already too grateful...all they'll have to do is, sincerely prosper Baloch's and give them jobs...
anyways whatever Chinese did till now was surprise to us...that they were unexpectedly quick to turn our theories to reality...
why not this...poverty can be biggest curse, for anyone...
I think we must tighten our belts...and be proactive, because these days china is capable of defying any belief...and pukes capable of selling their beloved...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chackojoseph » 27 Sep 2010 09:20

We should be definitely doing something about Balochistan. I am not suggesting inaction.

At the same time, Baloch's will simply not co-exists with Gajar(iran) and Punjabi (pakistan). Unlike Pakistani's who have to manipulate textbooks, propaganda etc to make villains out of India, Baloch's don't need all these against Iran and pakistan. The hate level is natural. Jondallah and BLA will not let that happen.

Also in long term, the potentials in natural resources in Balochistan are so great that it will create a Great Asian game kind of rivalry.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby manum » 27 Sep 2010 21:22

ya...locally it might be complex...

pukes have become snakes, who eat themselves...and sell their wives for friendship...i feel pity for its citizen...how they must have been feeling...
drones killing citizens of Pakistan in Pakistan...China slowly planning to gallop left of self respect...where they must be clinging their hopes...and how they must be feeling...they are not Iraq and still, their citizens get killed by foreign forces ...... everyday ... in obedience of their own government...
What a shame...and what an Idiot enemy we have got...PRC is better...

abhishek_sharma
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby abhishek_sharma » 28 Sep 2010 07:07


abhishek_sharma
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby abhishek_sharma » 30 Sep 2010 08:23


svinayak
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 30 Sep 2010 08:27

abhishek_sharma wrote:Spendings stuck, India trails China in firepower

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Spendings-stuck--India-trails-China-in-firepower/690302


Fake news report.
Spending does not determine the final fire power or what is the strategic advantage of the country.
This is a false psy ops for changing public opinion

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sum » 30 Sep 2010 08:43

^^ Honestly, dont care if such psy-ops actually helps push through the long time stuck essential purchaces for the forces. After all, our babus/netas only wake up when stuff is about to hit the fan...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2010 09:46

china is spreading its tentacles into afghanistan. a $5b deal to explore and build a railway link via kazakhstan to afghani copper mine has been signed.

the gameplan seems to be:-
- block india using pakistan from exploiting CAR states as a resource hinterland (due to low population they will not be big markets)
- keep russia off balance with such deep linkages, outspend russia in funding the infra, power elites and factions in CAR
- develop kashgar-urumqi as a new industrial hub area to provide finished goods to CAR states , pakistan and via pakistan to the gulf if
possible.

with indo-iranian relations cool at the moment, the outlook is not too good.

if you look at PRC history it has been of expansion, first into korea, then manchuria was given to them by ussr, then tibet & east turkestan,
now gnawing at siberia using bangladeshi demographic war tactics and finally the pakistan-CAR takeover plan.

russia is too weak economically to do much about this. iranian relations seem a hostage to india's US relations.

I fear we are being outmuscled in this phase2 of the "great game"

pakistan has correctly hitched its wagon to the rising star and hopes to survive economically as a chinese satellite state providing the
much coveted warm water port near the persian gulf as well as a heavily armed kabila vs india. this is their next 50 yr survival plan.

the US will be kicked out of pakistan once it realizes chinese capital , investment and arms is stable and comes with zero strings
attached. it will be milked while the $$ lasts ofcourse. the US will basically have to sulkily retreat back to kuwait and qatar and
hope to keep the dying shreds of its persian gulf empire intact.
Last edited by Singha on 30 Sep 2010 09:52, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ashi » 30 Sep 2010 09:46

abhishek_sharma wrote:Spendings stuck, India trails China in firepower

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Spendings-stuck--India-trails-China-in-firepower/690302


Does this guy really know what is he talking? The whole article is full of factural error then anyone who has just a bit of military knowledge would quickly point them out ...

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Srivastav » 30 Sep 2010 09:56

ashi wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Spendings stuck, India trails China in firepower

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Spendings-stuck--India-trails-China-in-firepower/690302


Does this guy really know what is he talking? The whole article is full of factural error then anyone who has just a bit of military knowledge would quickly point them out ...

so please do point those factual errors to us.......

ashi
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby ashi » 30 Sep 2010 10:10

so please do point those factual errors to us.......


Just to list one,
The Army has no answer to the Chinese QBZ-97 Type 97-2 5.8/5.56 mm anti-riot gun, the AK-74 modified QBZ-95 Type 95 automatic rifle, the M-16 NATO rifle modification Type 95B carbine.


please search for AK-74 , M-16 and Type 95 rifles pictures. To say one is a modified of the other, it is like saying a Toyota Camry is a modified Hummer.


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