China Military Watch

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2937
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: China Military Watch

Post by darshhan »

China has the fastest supercomputer now.

http://singularityhub.com/2010/11/07/ch ... more-22794
Early in October, China revealed that they have developed the world’s fastest supercomputer at their National Supercomputing Center in Tianjin. Known as the Tianhe-1A, the machine is capable of a remarkable 2.5 petaflops. That’s 2.5 thousand trillion floating point operations per second. Impressive to say the least and more than 40% faster than Jaguar, the current leading supercomputer in the US (according to Top500.org). Tianhe-1A follows a new kind of architecture, relying as much on graphics cards (from Nvidia) as it does on traditional CPUs (from Intel). While the major processing components of the Chinese supercomputer are all from the United States, the software and hardware that allows those chips to talk to each other efficiently was developed in China. What does China’s occupation of the top spot in computing mean for the world? Depends on Congress. The last time that a nation surpassed the US in supercomputing (Japan with Earth Simulator) funding was found to propel the US back to the top. With the economy still in trouble it’s unclear whether China’s supercomputer success will rally US research, or serve as the beginning for a long era of Chinese dominance.
China is also making significant progress in microprocessors to the point where it would not be dependent on US firms like Intel,AMD etc.

http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/26596/
At this year's Hot Chips conference at Stanford University, Weiwu Hu, the lead architect of the "national processor" of China, revealed three new chip designs. One of them could enable China to build a homegrown supercomputer to rank in a prestigious list of the world's fastest machines.

The Loongson processor family (known in China by the name Godson), is now in its sixth generation. The latest designs consist of the one-gigahertz, eight-core Godson 3B, the more powerful 16-core, Godson 3C (with a speed that is currently unknown), and the smaller, lower-power one-gigahertz Godson 2H, intended for netbooks and other mobile devices. The Godson 3B will be commercially available in 2011, as will the Godson 2H, but the Godson 3C won't debut until 2012.

According to Tom Halfhill, industry analyst and editor of Microprocessor Report, the eight-core Godson 3B will still be significantly less powerful than Intel's best chip, the six-core Xeon processor. It will be able to perform roughly 30 percent fewer mathematical calculations per second. Intel's forthcoming Sandy Bridge processor and AMD's Bulldozer processor will widen the gap between chips designed by American companies and the Godson 3B.
Check out both the articles.Forget Artillery,Tanks and missiles.Progress in such fields will go a long way in advancing their military capabilities.
Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1409
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Rishirishi »

darshhan wrote:China has the fastest supercomputer now.

http://singularityhub.com/2010/11/07/ch ... more-22794
Early in October, China revealed that they have developed the world’s fastest supercomputer at their National Supercomputing Center in Tianjin. Known as the Tianhe-1A, the machine is capable of a remarkable 2.5 petaflops. That’s 2.5 thousand trillion floating point operations per second. Impressive to say the least and more than 40% faster than Jaguar, the current leading supercomputer in the US (according to Top500.org). Tianhe-1A follows a new kind of architecture, relying as much on graphics cards (from Nvidia) as it does on traditional CPUs (from Intel). While the major processing components of the Chinese supercomputer are all from the United States, the software and hardware that allows those chips to talk to each other efficiently was developed in China. What does China’s occupation of the top spot in computing mean for the world? Depends on Congress. The last time that a nation surpassed the US in supercomputing (Japan with Earth Simulator) funding was found to propel the US back to the top. With the economy still in trouble it’s unclear whether China’s supercomputer success will rally US research, or serve as the beginning for a long era of Chinese dominance.
China is also making significant progress in microprocessors to the point where it would not be dependent on US firms like Intel,AMD etc.

http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/26596/
At this year's Hot Chips conference at Stanford University, Weiwu Hu, the lead architect of the "national processor" of China, revealed three new chip designs. One of them could enable China to build a homegrown supercomputer to rank in a prestigious list of the world's fastest machines.

The Loongson processor family (known in China by the name Godson), is now in its sixth generation. The latest designs consist of the one-gigahertz, eight-core Godson 3B, the more powerful 16-core, Godson 3C (with a speed that is currently unknown), and the smaller, lower-power one-gigahertz Godson 2H, intended for netbooks and other mobile devices. The Godson 3B will be commercially available in 2011, as will the Godson 2H, but the Godson 3C won't debut until 2012.

According to Tom Halfhill, industry analyst and editor of Microprocessor Report, the eight-core Godson 3B will still be significantly less powerful than Intel's best chip, the six-core Xeon processor. It will be able to perform roughly 30 percent fewer mathematical calculations per second. Intel's forthcoming Sandy Bridge processor and AMD's Bulldozer processor will widen the gap between chips designed by American companies and the Godson 3B.
Check out both the articles.Forget Artillery,Tanks and missiles.Progress in such fields will go a long way in advancing their military capabilities.
Processing powers plays a minor role today, as very powerful processors are available off the shelf.

The hard part is going to be able to compete in design and material understanding. The chinease are far away from any military engine, or even a jet airframe. The same applies for sensor and guidance tech. They are far behind.

Any way, China is soon going to become the new piraiha of the world. Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and Russia are all concerned with the rise of Chinease power. US and EU are showing similar sentiments. The price of rmb is killing EU and US manufacturing. And finally India is also getting concerned.
China has 2 friends. TSP and NK.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Indranil »

Darshann I specialize in High Performance Computing. And I am fortunate enough to be working in groups which works on Jaguar. What the Chinese have attained is no mean feat. Kudos to them.

Their machine however is a hybrid between CPUs and GPUs. So peak theoretical performance will be higher. However, it is difficult to comment on the average performance of that machine. Also, MTBF etc for the high energy consuming GPUs is questionable.

In HPC, one doesn't build the machine and then find applications to run on them. Also one must realize the kind of operational costs of such machine. To give you an example, the super computer in my lab (it is within the Top 500, but smaller by a few orders of magnitude than the machine in question) has a electricity bill of 250,000$ annually. It's interconnect is way more expensive than the processors. It, like other machines has been kept as generic as possible but is tailor made to suit some kind of applications.

Therefore a machine as big as this Chinese one will only be built if their are applications which need such a machine. The machine is tailor made for such applications. Hence I am pretty sure that the Chinese have applications ready for the machine.

Having said that peak performance doesn't specify the effectiveness of a machine. Jaguar/ Roadrunner etc are quite generic machines with very high speed interconnects and using commodity processors. Jaguar has higher peak performance than the Roadrunner based on the Linpack benchmark. But there will be hundreds of applications which would run faster on the Roadrunner because of the memory set up, interconnect etc.

The Chinese machine having a hybrid structure will be more restrictive in the applications which can exploit it's peak performance. So at this point, the HPC community has taken note of the Chinese achievement but at the same time it is skeptical about its performance. Because unlike the Japanese Earth Simulator (which is very highly regarded and for very good reason) the Chinese seem to experimenting with the GPGPUs in a heterogeneous cluster. There has been research which point to the fact that a large scale machine using the GPGPUs might be successful, but research in this field is still in the nascent stage.

So, it remains to be seen if applications can truly extract the peak performance of the machine.
Willy
BRFite
Posts: 283
Joined: 18 Jan 2005 01:58

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Willy »

darshhan wrote:China has the fastest supercomputer now.

http://singularityhub.com/2010/11/07/ch ... more-22794
Early in October, China revealed that they have developed the world’s fastest supercomputer at their National Supercomputing Center in Tianjin. Known as the Tianhe-1A, the machine is capable of a remarkable 2.5 petaflops. That’s 2.5 thousand trillion floating point operations per second. Impressive to say the least and more than 40% faster than Jaguar, the current leading supercomputer in the US (according to Top500.org). Tianhe-1A follows a new kind of architecture, relying as much on graphics cards (from Nvidia) as it does on traditional CPUs (from Intel). While the major processing components of the Chinese supercomputer are all from the United States, the software and hardware that allows those chips to talk to each other efficiently was developed in China. What does China’s occupation of the top spot in computing mean for the world? Depends on Congress. The last time that a nation surpassed the US in supercomputing (Japan with Earth Simulator) funding was found to propel the US back to the top. With the economy still in trouble it’s unclear whether China’s supercomputer success will rally US research, or serve as the beginning for a long era of Chinese dominance.
China is also making significant progress in microprocessors to the point where it would not be dependent on US firms like Intel,AMD etc.

http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/26596/
At this year's Hot Chips conference at Stanford University, Weiwu Hu, the lead architect of the "national processor" of China, revealed three new chip designs. One of them could enable China to build a homegrown supercomputer to rank in a prestigious list of the world's fastest machines.

The Loongson processor family (known in China by the name Godson), is now in its sixth generation. The latest designs consist of the one-gigahertz, eight-core Godson 3B, the more powerful 16-core, Godson 3C (with a speed that is currently unknown), and the smaller, lower-power one-gigahertz Godson 2H, intended for netbooks and other mobile devices. The Godson 3B will be commercially available in 2011, as will the Godson 2H, but the Godson 3C won't debut until 2012.

According to Tom Halfhill, industry analyst and editor of Microprocessor Report, the eight-core Godson 3B will still be significantly less powerful than Intel's best chip, the six-core Xeon processor. It will be able to perform roughly 30 percent fewer mathematical calculations per second. Intel's forthcoming Sandy Bridge processor and AMD's Bulldozer processor will widen the gap between chips designed by American companies and the Godson 3B.
Check out both the articles.Forget Artillery,Tanks and missiles.Progress in such fields will go a long way in advancing their military capabilities.
What happened to the Indian processor family on which the Param's were based on? Was there no follow on?
chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch

Post by chackojoseph »

I wanted to bring to your attention of Chinese Origin Assamese. They were forcibly sent to china after 1962.

Chinese-origin Assamese community 'forcibly deported' by India now welcome
The Chinese origin people who were brought to India by the British for the tea plantation. They married to different communities and settled down in Assam.

But the Chinese aggression of 1962 changed India’s view of these settlers and around 1,500 Indian Chinese were picked up from Makum, a small town of upper Assam, and some other parts of the state, and sent to a detention camp in Deoli, Rajasthan. From the camp, several were deported to China in batches, while a handful were allowed to return to Assam after about three years, only to find their belongings confiscated as 'enemy property' and auctioned off.
darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2937
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: China Military Watch

Post by darshhan »

indranilroy wrote:Darshann I specialize in High Performance Computing. And I am fortunate enough to be working in groups which works on Jaguar. What the Chinese have attained is no mean feat. Kudos to them.

Their machine however is a hybrid between CPUs and GPUs. So peak theoretical performance will be higher. However, it is difficult to comment on the average performance of that machine. Also, MTBF etc for the high energy consuming GPUs is questionable.

In HPC, one doesn't build the machine and then find applications to run on them. Also one must realize the kind of operational costs of such machine. To give you an example, the super computer in my lab (it is within the Top 500, but smaller by a few orders of magnitude than the machine in question) has a electricity bill of 250,000$ annually. It's interconnect is way more expensive than the processors. It, like other machines has been kept as generic as possible but is tailor made to suit some kind of applications.

Therefore a machine as big as this Chinese one will only be built if their are applications which need such a machine. The machine is tailor made for such applications. Hence I am pretty sure that the Chinese have applications ready for the machine.

Having said that peak performance doesn't specify the effectiveness of a machine. Jaguar/ Roadrunner etc are quite generic machines with very high speed interconnects and using commodity processors. Jaguar has higher peak performance than the Roadrunner based on the Linpack benchmark. But there will be hundreds of applications which would run faster on the Roadrunner because of the memory set up, interconnect etc.

The Chinese machine having a hybrid structure will be more restrictive in the applications which can exploit it's peak performance. So at this point, the HPC community has taken note of the Chinese achievement but at the same time it is skeptical about its performance. Because unlike the Japanese Earth Simulator (which is very highly regarded and for very good reason) the Chinese seem to experimenting with the GPGPUs in a heterogeneous cluster. There has been research which point to the fact that a large scale machine using the GPGPUs might be successful, but research in this field is still in the nascent stage.

So, it remains to be seen if applications can truly extract the peak performance of the machine.
Indranil , I agree with you that only raw processing power doesn' t mean much.I just wanted to point out that as far as design and architecture of High performance computing systems they have attained a lot of expertise.Even more importantly they are advancing very quickly on the homegrown Microprocessor front.In fact I was reading somewhere they will be designing a HPC system using their indigenous microprocessors within 2 years(According to the report it will rank in top ten).That will ensure that China is no more dependent on American companies for their HPC systems.This kind of progress is certainly worthy of appreciation.They sure do have a vision and they are progressing nicely in pursuit of that vision.
Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Juggi G »

X-Post

China will Attack India 'Soon' : Mulayam Singh Yadav
Image
China will Attack India 'Soon' : Mulayam Singh Yadav
PTI
Nov 9, 2010


NEW DELHI: Former Defence minister Mulayam Singh Yadav on Tuesday claimed that China could attack India "soon" and the threat needed to be taken seriously against the backdrop of the 1962 invasion.

"China is laying claim on several of our states including Arunachal Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh and Uttarkhand besides the Ladakh region... It is going to attack us soon... The attack can take place any time," the Samajwadi party supremo said in the Lok Sabha during Zero Hour.

The SP chief wanted Parliament to immediately discuss the issue threadbare in view of the threat. He had unsuccessfully tried to raise the issue as soon as the House met for the day.

While Parliamentary Affairs Minister Pawan Kumar Bansal said he would draw the attention of the Defence Minister to Yadav's statement, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee said, "We will discuss this issue."

The SP chief said when he was Defence Minister, roads had been laid on the borders with China which have now turned bad.

Against this, China has built four to eight lane roads on its side of the border.

Yadav claimed the Army top brass has been warning the government over the Chinese threat.


His statement came close on the heels of Army Chief General V K Singh's remarks that India was "not sure" of China's intentions for developing infrastructure along the borders. At the same time, the general had said a repeat of the 1962 aggression was "never" possible.
shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: China Military Watch

Post by shukla »

China ready for consultation with India over UNSC reform
TOI
"China values India's status in the international affairs and understands India's aspirations to play a greater role in the United Nations and is ready to keep contact and consultations with India and other member states on the issues of Security Council reform," Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman, Hong Lei said during a media briefing. "China supports reasonable and necessary reform of the UN Security Council and will maintain priority to giving more representation to developing countries at UNSC so that they can play bigger role in Security Council," Hong said.

He said China wants democratic and patient consultations over the issue. "We hope all parties should continue to have democratic and patient consultations so as to reach a package of consensus on reform related issues so that negations will become a process to narrow differences, safeguard unity and realise a win-win scenario," he said.
The issue of India's permanent membership to the UNSC has always figured high in the talks between Indian and Chinese leaders. The issue was raised during President Pratibha Patil's visit to Beijing this year as well as Foreign minister S M Krishna's visit earlier. "China understands India's aspirations at the UN" was the standard phrase it came up with during the talks sounding cautious and ambivalent on the complex UNSC reform process.

China has also voted for India's candidature to the non-permanent seat at the UNSC. Obama's endorsement of India's membership leaves only China to take a stand on the issue as the other four of the five permanent members — US, Russia, Britain and France — have already conveyed their support for New Delhi's elevation to the top organ of the world body.
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Austin »

Russia, China sign military cooperation protocol
Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and the head of China's Central Military Commission, Guo Boxiong, on Tuesday signed an agreement on developing military cooperation between the two states.

"First of all, it concerns contracts to supply spare parts for air defense systems, aviation and navy equipment," the minister's spokeswoman said.

The document was signed during a meeting of the Russian-Chinese intergovernmental commission on military cooperation in Beijing.

The sides noted "good perspectives for bilateral cooperation in spheres related to combat and military transport aviation, naval equipment, air defense systems and post-sale maintenance of Russian-made equipment that the Chinese army has in service," the spokeswoman added.
Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Juggi G »

Image

Purported first airframe of the new Chinese J-14 being towed across the airfield at Chengdu test facility on 5 Nov, 2010. An H-6 can be seen in background.
DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 1048
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: China Military Watch

Post by DavidD »

Juggi G wrote:
Image

Purported first airframe of the new Chinese J-14 being towed across the airfield at Chengdu test facility on 5 Nov, 2010. An H-6 can be seen in background.
That's a photoshopped F-22.
darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2937
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: China Military Watch

Post by darshhan »

While it is old news that Chinese troops are deployed in POK , according to this video they are also trying to buy off the local politicians.

http://ishare.rediff.com/video/Entertai ... cs/2325465
Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Juggi G »

Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Juggi G »

sanjeevpunj
BRFite
Posts: 971
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 13:10

Re: China Military Watch

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Chinese Pogroms that use state power to quell human revolts are being exported out of China today.Isn't it surprising, that the very government that massacres Uighur muslims, is patronised by terrorists like JUD's Hafiz Saeed? Indicates unholy alliances between China and global terrorism.
Spreading outwards like cancer,Chinese communism, be it Maoist or whatever, is a failed state trying to reinvent itself.Having failed back home, China therefore pushes its ideology into Pakistan,India from backdoors.China is a sly and determined enemy, unlike Pakistan which displays a lot of jingoistic bravado, but often fails when it comes to action.Chinese weapons speak through POK terrorists,through Taleban,through Nepali and Indian Maoists,Bodos,through MNLF, JKLF and what not, whatever militant factions they can support,they do, covertly.China has to be curbed through the UN, it has been enjoying too much of Veto power.
krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5868
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: China Military Watch

Post by krisna »

2010 is the start of PLAN's second building boom
Over the past few months, we have really started seeing new warships appearing in different naval shipyards in China. We saw the appearance of the 5th 054A in HP shipyard and then the 5th 054A in HD shipyard. We also saw 2 submarines (including a mysterious new type) appearing in WC shipyard. Over the past week, we have seen a flurry of new photos coming out of different shipyards that really showed the extent of the current buildup. On top of these photos, we also have plenty of rumours surrounding which ships might show up in the coming few months.
There are some fotos also.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: China Military Watch

Post by kit »

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... steam.html

INDIGENOUS MILITARY AIRCRAFT DEVELOPMENTS

Fighters
J-10A/B Based on Israel's Lavi and cancelled Chinese J-9, with Russian input.
J-11B Reverse-engineered Sukhoi Su-27, with Chinese avionics, system and engine.
J-15 Reverse-engineered Sukhoi Su-33, with Chinese avionics, systems and engine.
Fifth-generation fighter Initial indications point to development of a twin-engined F-22 look-alike with a reduced radar cross-section, internal weapon bays, thrust-vectoring capabilities.

Transport
Y-20 Under development and similar to the Boeing C-17.
Y-9 Smaller medium-size, medium-range aircraft to replace Y-8s.

Airborne early warning/intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance
Y-8 Platform to develop of airborne early warning, electronic intelligence and instrument flight rules capabilities.

Tankers
Y-20/Comac C919 Likely platforms for future air-to-air refuelling tankers.

Helicopters
Z-10/Z-19 Various attack helicopters of different sizes, including one that resembles the Eurocopter Tiger.
Z-15 Chinese variant of Eurocopter EC175, could be used for utility roles.

Unmanned air vehicles
UAVs being developed include combat UAVs and those for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance.

source : flightglobal
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: China Military Watch

Post by shiv »

Old news (2009)
http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/?p=3179
Mr. Lin Zuoming (林左鸣), the top head of ACIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China), has to admit that China's "Taihang" WS-10 Turbofan engine is still unsatisfactory in its quality.

In one of his opening letter, he says that the military aircraft engine production has been the "chronic illness" in Chinese aviation industry and he urges that the solving of "Taihang" WS-10 Turbofan engine is the key step to reinforce the Quality Control Procedure in AVIC.

Now PLA Air Force has install some WS-10 engine on its J-11B dual-engine heavy fighters for evaluation. But the result is not positive. Some resources report that the quality of WS-10 engine is terrible and PLA Air Force has begun to lose patiency of purchasing more WS-10 engine.

n early March 2009, One Chinese PLA Air Force Pilot sucessfully made a forced landing of one J-10 fighter due to the air shut-down of AL-31F engine. As one kind of single engine fighter, J-10 is very dangerous when power system in trouble.

As a result, PLA Air Force has been knowing the stability of Russian engines and just imported AL-31F engines before the finish of WS-10 development. But the fact shows that the WS-10 engine just looks advanced but has no real advantages to AL-31F.

The forced landing accident warns PLA Air Force that the aviation engines has been the killing shortages of its J-10 and J-11 fleets. No combat aircraft after all can fight without reliable engines.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: China Military Watch

Post by shiv »

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... j-11b.html
Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Engine-less J-11B
The current issue of Aviation News (HangKong Bao) displays a dozen manufactured J11Bs sitting at SAC without engines. This highlights the problem the PLAAF faces due to Shanyang Liming Aircraft Engine company's inability to fulfill all FWS10A (Taihang) orders. As indicted by the SAC's press release on its 2009 performance, it said it had fulfilled its PLAAF contracts "fairly" well. Which is different from previous press releases describing their performance as "very" well.*

Production certification delays prevented the FWS10A from entering mass production until recently. Perhaps this public display of engine-less fighters is SAC telling its partners to work faster.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3wZSwFvZzqM/S ... -11B-a.jpg
shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: China Military Watch

Post by shukla »

BREAKING NEWS - Russia may sell Su-35 to China

Image
The new Su-35S is labelled a “4++ Generation” derivative of the baseline Su-27S Flanker B. It is a comprehensive redesign of the aircraft's systems, and employs a supercruise capable 117S variant engine. Depicted the second prototype during flight test. The Su-35S is expected to be the last Flanker variant to be mass produced before the PAK-FA enters full rate production (KnAAPO image).

Russia May Sell Su-35s to China
Defensenews
Breaking its earlier tradition of keeping China at bay when came to sales of advanced weapons, Russia is prepared to discuss selling its most modern Su-35 4++ generation fighters to China, said the deputy director of the Russian government arms export agency, Rosoboronexport. "We are ready to work with the Chinese partners in this direction," Alexander Mikheyev told reporters after the opening ceremony of China's Zhuhai Airshow 2010, according to the Russian official RIA-Novosti news agency.
Mikheyev said that Russia and China are in the initial stage of negotiations and will be discussing the features of the export variant of the Su-35 and how to integrate it with previously supplied Su-30 fighters and the locally assembled (under Russian license) Su-27s. A source in Rosoboronexport said that this contract would mark a departure from recent stagnation in Russian arms sales to China.
Russia ready to sell Su-35 fighter jets to China
RIA
Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday it was ready to hold talks with China on the delivery of advanced Su-35 fighter aircraft to the Chinese air force. "We are ready to work with our Chinese partners to this end [Su-35 deliveries]," Deputy General Director of Rosoboronexport Alexander Mikheyev said at the Airshow China 2010, which is being held on November 16-21 in Zhuhai.
Russia's Sukhoi aircraft maker earlier said it planned to start deliveries of the new aircraft, billed as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology," to foreign clients in 2011 and produce Su-35s over a period of 10 years up to 2020.
China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition (Airshow China) is the only international aerospace trade show in China that is endorsed by the Chinese central government. The biannual arms exhibition has been held in Zhuhai since 1996.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Singha »

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Philip »

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... e014e6.231

Aircraft carrier plan shows China naval ambitions
By Sebastien Blanc (AFP)
BEIJING — The new generation of combat aircraft China proudly showed off at the Zhuhai Air Show in the country's south this week could soon be taking off from a prestigious runway: an aircraft carrier.

Beijing has become increasingly assertive in its ambitions on the high seas -- as demonstrated by recent tensions with old rival Japan -- but still lacks this naval centrepiece.

This looks set to change.

Although it has not officially announced as much, China is working on a carrier and Western experts believe it could be launched as early as next year, though not in a fully operational state.

It is a former Soviet aircraft carrier called the Varyag, currently being refurbished in the port city of Dalian in northeast China.

Rick Fisher, a Chinese military expert at the International Assessment and Strategy Centre in the United States, told AFP the Pentagon estimates China's carrier will start operations by 2015.
Another report on the Varyag's renovation for the PLAN.

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/world-news/20 ... ey[quote]A former Soviet carrier's Chinese odyssey .
Thursday, 18 November 2010 12:54 Mohideen Mifthah .BEIJING, Nov 18, 2010 (AFP) -

Foreign military experts believe a 300-metre-long vessel being refurbished in the northeastern Chinese port of Dalian is destined to sail as the country's first aircraft carrier.
The Varyag, a Kuznetsov-class carrier originally built in the USSR for the Soviet navy, has had a decidedly inglorious history.
Construction began at a Ukrainian shipyard in the mid-1980s, but was interrupted by the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
In 1998 its immense armoured hull, with no engine, electrics or propeller, was bought at auction by a company in Hong Kong -- believed by many to have been a Chinese front -- which said it wanted to turn it into a floating casino in Macau.
Towing the Varyag from Ukraine's Black Sea coast to China proved to be an odyssey in itself.
Turkey opposed the ship's passage through its waters for months, and the vessel did not arrive in China until March 2002, after more than 600 days at sea.
The ship's military purpose soon came into focus when the People's Liberation Army (PLA) began a full refit, complete with landing platform.
“Internet source photos regularly reveal an increasing tempo of work on the Varyag,” said Richard Fisher, senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.
“The island (control tower) of the Varyag is being much modified and a new Chinese phased array radar system likely has just been installed.
“We know little about its engine but it appears that work has been proceeding on that as well. It could be moving on its own by 2011 or 2012.”

[/quote]
Willy
BRFite
Posts: 283
Joined: 18 Jan 2005 01:58

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Willy »

Philip wrote:http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... e014e6.231

Aircraft carrier plan shows China naval ambitions
By Sebastien Blanc (AFP)
BEIJING — The new generation of combat aircraft China proudly showed off at the Zhuhai Air Show in the country's south this week could soon be taking off from a prestigious runway: an aircraft carrier.

Beijing has become increasingly assertive in its ambitions on the high seas -- as demonstrated by recent tensions with old rival Japan -- but still lacks this naval centrepiece.

This looks set to change.

Although it has not officially announced as much, China is working on a carrier and Western experts believe it could be launched as early as next year, though not in a fully operational state.

It is a former Soviet aircraft carrier called the Varyag, currently being refurbished in the port city of Dalian in northeast China.

Rick Fisher, a Chinese military expert at the International Assessment and Strategy Centre in the United States, told AFP the Pentagon estimates China's carrier will start operations by 2015.
Another report on the Varyag's renovation for the PLAN.

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/world-news/20 ... ey[quote]A former Soviet carrier's Chinese odyssey .
Thursday, 18 November 2010 12:54 Mohideen Mifthah .BEIJING, Nov 18, 2010 (AFP) -

Foreign military experts believe a 300-metre-long vessel being refurbished in the northeastern Chinese port of Dalian is destined to sail as the country's first aircraft carrier.
The Varyag, a Kuznetsov-class carrier originally built in the USSR for the Soviet navy, has had a decidedly inglorious history.
Construction began at a Ukrainian shipyard in the mid-1980s, but was interrupted by the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.
In 1998 its immense armoured hull, with no engine, electrics or propeller, was bought at auction by a company in Hong Kong -- believed by many to have been a Chinese front -- which said it wanted to turn it into a floating casino in Macau.
Towing the Varyag from Ukraine's Black Sea coast to China proved to be an odyssey in itself.
Turkey opposed the ship's passage through its waters for months, and the vessel did not arrive in China until March 2002, after more than 600 days at sea.
The ship's military purpose soon came into focus when the People's Liberation Army (PLA) began a full refit, complete with landing platform.
“Internet source photos regularly reveal an increasing tempo of work on the Varyag,” said Richard Fisher, senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.
“The island (control tower) of the Varyag is being much modified and a new Chinese phased array radar system likely has just been installed.
“We know little about its engine but it appears that work has been proceeding on that as well. It could be moving on its own by 2011 or 2012.”
[/quote]

Shortsightedness on our part. It would have been better to get this completed instead of the Gorshkov seeing that it is a proper carrier.. Would have got it cheap at that time. It was on offer to. But then again we didnt have the money for it at that time either I think.
Willy
BRFite
Posts: 283
Joined: 18 Jan 2005 01:58

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Willy »

Thomas Kolarek wrote:India should be vary of chinese designs, they seems to safeguard their oil route - Gwadar, Gilgit. knowing India can kill their current oil route during the war. 2012-15 is going to be an important period for India, hope our politicians gets awaken sooner than sorry. whatever is being done is not enough DOT.
We should get together with the US and hive off Baluchistan from China :) That will be that :D
DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 1048
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: China Military Watch

Post by DavidD »

Willy wrote:
Shortsightedness on our part. It would have been better to get this completed instead of the Gorshkov seeing that it is a proper carrier.. Would have got it cheap at that time. It was on offer to. But then again we didnt have the money for it at that time either I think.
It's not THAT much bigger of a carrier than the Gorshkov, plus it was just an empty shell at the time. India wanted a complete carrier, so the Gorshkov made sense. China wanted something they can practice with building their own, so they got the shell. I don't think either country made a mistake there.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12266
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Pratyush »

David Just to add,

The hime made Indian carrier will be launched in the nex few years and will be in service by 2014. With the follow up design being larger then that firs one. In that respect, India is ahead in the race.
Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1440
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Craig Alpert »

Chinese military drones pose Western challenge
...........
Ironically, it’s the Chinese joint ventures with foreign aerospace companies that have given the Communist state the know-how to quickly develop its rival technology, the Journal reported.

Chinese companies displayed 25 different unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs, at this week’s Zhuhai air show, hosted across the bay from Hong Kong. Designs included a jet-powered reconnaissance and attack model with a radius of 1,250 miles, and a duck-sized spy drone with flapping wings.

According to experts, China’s UAV technology is still several years behind that of the U.S. and Israel, but development has been rapid since the country introduced its first UAV four years ago, the newspaper said.
...............
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4635
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: China Military Watch

Post by hnair »

That Chooha Air show (I swear that is the right way to pronounce it, if I use pinyinese instead of Wade-Giles as used by MSM worldwide :P ) is interesting.

- No practical MRAP/V-bottomed vehicles. Still maalishing humvees. Wonder what they are planning to do in say, Tibet or any internal disturbances with IED mubaraks?

- no flourishes in unveiled UAVs eg: no gigantic ones that are named Super-Snake-in-Mega-Dragon's-ass with a mandate for galactic domination etc. Kind of scary, because that means PLA is promoting smaller benis jernails, who just might use their brains :evil:

- aircraft carrier countering is poster-level posturing. They are yet to spook khan's Navy, despite them being allowed to popup under khan's blankies in their rickety subs. If they genuinely spook khan, we will see a canceling of the high-priced CVX or a major paring down on their numbers. Khan is commonsensical in these matter, as seen by canning A-12etc as well as their cruiser programs with respect to the more flexible Arleigh-Burkes (despite flammable aluminium super-structure, those darn boats are like the pod-people - they are everywhere!! :shock: ).

- after their Divine Vessels, the space program seems in a post-coital depression mode, a la Apollo. "Now what?" questions seem to be raging inside their Hall of the Despots. Not that we, oiros or khan are doing any better :oops:

Despite BRF's (sometimes valid, IMO) reservations, India is using a wide spectrum of gaijin Masamunes to armor up. We have made clear we are NOT planning to fight the khan or bear and proved it by going for significant purchases with great dependency on them. In return, it *can* force khan to be less snarky and stupid around us. Kind of making khan, our own pakis - pay 'em to be less stupid 8) It might be easy for khan to fade out, if he feels he is a master swordsmith. We might have to go along with that self-assessment for another few decades, if we want to take the reigns of khan's systems at a later stage in a **non-disruptive manner**. We dont want to reinvent anything that khan already did, just take over and IPL-ize it. A prudent choice that PLA's H&D wont allow them to explore. They see a gweilo CVN in every flat top and keeps wasting money, instead of acquiring one over board and be done with that itch. This is like India struggling for a pace bowler, when we could have easily "acquired" an aussie or a windies by showing the money. Fortunately we are over that H&D phase in cricket and elsewhere :)
sanjeevpunj
BRFite
Posts: 971
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 13:10

Re: China Military Watch

Post by sanjeevpunj »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 955266.cms

Read about this, China has made a move finally and punished the bugger, a fall guy,perhaps,for having shared Nuke Info with Pak to build its reactors.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: China Military Watch

Post by svinayak »

Craig Alpert wrote:Chinese military drones pose Western challenge
...........
Ironically, it’s the Chinese joint ventures with foreign aerospace companies that have given the Communist state the know-how to quickly develop its rival technology, the Journal reported.
See the comments. They are not worried that China will wage war with third country
DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 1048
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: China Military Watch

Post by DavidD »

Pratyush wrote:David Just to add,

The hime made Indian carrier will be launched in the nex few years and will be in service by 2014. With the follow up design being larger then that firs one. In that respect, India is ahead in the race.
That's probably true, as China has always been behind India in carrier stuff. After all, India has been operating carriers since the 60's. However, there are some pretty knowledgeable folks on the Chinese boards who think that the first Chinese carrier is already under construction, so who knows, they might not be too much behind there.
uddu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2091
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: China Military Watch

Post by uddu »

sanjeevpunj wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 955266.cms

Read about this, China has made a move finally and punished the bugger, a fall guy,perhaps,for having shared Nuke Info with Pak to build its reactors.
:rotfl: You got it all wrong. They punished the guy for not sharing the Mamool he took on the deal made by the CCP, and finally spared his life when he gave it back to the CCP thugs. :rotfl:
uddu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2091
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: China Military Watch

Post by uddu »

So are the Chinese trying hard to beat the Russians in the aircraft carrier refurbishment? Who will wiN? Mao or Putin? :D
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: China Military Watch

Post by shiv »

Odd indeed. The a/c is loaded with containers like a container ship. But that's not what's odd. The Chinese never ever reveal what they are building unless they use a photoshop or a photo-op to achieve a propaganda aim. So what's with this container ship photo?
Anshul
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 01 Feb 2005 12:53
Location: Potala Palace,Lhasa

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Anshul »

Shiv,

Those aren't containers if you look closely.Those are Auxilliary Power Units (to Support Electrical Welding , Cutting ) etc.From what i can see...they have planar array 3d radar , a SAM or Sthil and anti aircraft search lights mounted on the starboard.

From the look of things..looks like they have the power train sorted out (Gas Turbines...they could even surprise all of us by revealing a nuke powered varyag :idea: .The weapons and radar fitouts means this thing is much closer to sea trials than thought before.
Mukesh.Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 1246
Joined: 06 Dec 2009 14:09

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

Great photos Don. Just a humble request. Please try to upload smaller pics next time, kinda heavy on the BW for us without Broadband.
DavidD
BRFite
Posts: 1048
Joined: 23 Jun 2010 04:08

Re: China Military Watch

Post by DavidD »

Didn't know you guys are interested in photos, there are plenty of more available:

Type 730 CIWS:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2vs1zjk.jpg

Exhaust from main powerplant test:
http://i53.tinypic.com/8xrbsi.jpg

FL-3000N short range SAM(similar to the American RAM)
http://i56.tinypic.com/28srbzd.jpg

Aft weapons configuration(3 "steps", FL-3000N and ASW launchers on the first step, Type 730 on the second step, and MLRS probably for decoys on the third)
http://i52.tinypic.com/2hpmyo9.jpg

Another pic of the aft view, shows the Sea Eagle(Type 382) radar and some of the weapons systems again:
http://i52.tinypic.com/2gsq0p4.jpg

I don't see Shtil type SAM on there, and I doubt that they'll be installed. Type 730 and FL-3000N should be sufficient as far as "self" protection goes. I don't think a PAR has been installed yet, but you can clearly make out the large panel spaces on all 4 sides of the superstructure for their mounting. With weapon systems, sensors, and the main engine installed, it'll likely undergo sea trials within a year.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: China Military Watch

Post by shiv »

Anshul wrote:Shiv,

Those aren't containers if you look closely.Those are Auxilliary Power Units (to Support Electrical Welding , Cutting ) etc.From what i can see...they have planar array 3d radar , a SAM or Sthil and anti aircraft search lights mounted on the starboard.

From the look of things..looks like they have the power train sorted out (Gas Turbines...they could even surprise all of us by revealing a nuke powered varyag :idea: .The weapons and radar fitouts means this thing is much closer to sea trials than thought before.
Oh really? 8)
Dmurphy
BRFite
Posts: 1543
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 11:20
Location: India

Re: China Military Watch

Post by Dmurphy »

Could all be just a speculation in the end, but...

Experts: Mystery contrail was from Chinese missile
Although the U.S. Defense Department and North American Aerospace Defense Command have speculated publicly that the unidentified contrail of a projectile soaring into the skies off the California coast – and recorded by a KCBS television crew – came from a jet and posed no security threat to the U.S., several experts are raising provocative and disturbing questions about the government's official response, reports Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

Two governmental military experts with extensive experience working with missiles and computer security systems have examined the television video and conclude the mysterious contrail originating some 30 miles off the coast near Los Angeles did not come from a jet – but rather, they say the exhaust and the billowing plume emanated from a single source nozzle of a missile, probably made in China.
...
...
...
Wayne Madsen, a former naval officer who has worked at the National Security Agency and the Naval Data Automation Command, said the inability to pick up what he described as a Chinese Jin-class submarine-launched ballistic missile isn't the first time U.S. Navy anti-submarine warfare sensors have failed.

Madsen, who today is an investigative journalist, said the Pentagon is working "overtime with the media and on the Internet to cover up the latest debacle. However, even some reporters who cover the Pentagon full-time are beginning to question the Pentagon's version of events ... over the skies west of Los Angeles."
[youtube]4WGcSuGojYA&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]
Locked