China Military Watch

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 07 Mar 2010 08:42

Russian-Chinese Su-33 fighter deal collapses

MOSCOW, March 10 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has refused to sell its Su-33 carrier-based fighters to China over fears that Beijing could produce cheaper export versions of the aircraft, a Russian daily said on Tuesday.

The Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper said that China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of 50 of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters, to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers, since 2006, but that the talks collapsed recently over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."

Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.......

kit · Post by **kit** » 07 Mar 2010 09:58

China s ability to xerox high tech items point to a political will to build indigenously and build upon it ., this type of effort both stimulates R&D effort to emulate an improvise.This is the same road Japan took many years ago before their own technology matured to compete on even levels with foreign firms.There is nothing to be ashamed for 'copy cat' technologies.Who says one should reinvent the wheel when some one else has already done it ? It takes some maturation of the technological level of a country to produce a working copy of almost anything ! After copy cat producing so many technologies for some time , where will china be 10 years from now and where will India be after paying through its nose for almost all high tech items, both economically and politically ? Technologies will get obsolete and money gone is gone for ever., but the expertise built up indigenously will stay and progress.China will progress by building on the technologies of others , but India .. ?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 07 Mar 2010 10:00

What will they copy if no one sells them shit.

kit · Post by **kit** » 07 Mar 2010 10:08

You would surprised at the number of high tech stuff reaching the mainland china from just one place like HongKong .. and who says one need to necessarily buy something to get it ? I wouldnt need to tell you about the hundred s of business fronts from which China can source its technology requirements ! A state department circular has even said that the Chinese are literally wiping and scouring the entire world for all manner of technology related materials and documentation.Internet just happens to be just one source of transfer.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 07 Mar 2010 14:16

Russian-Chinese Su-33 fighter deal collapses

had they been offered SU35 ? I ve read long ago that chinese were interested in SU35

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 07 Mar 2010 14:23

kit wrote:China s ability to xerox high tech items point to a political will to build indigenously and build upon it ., this type of effort both stimulates R&D effort to emulate an improvise.This is the same road Japan took many years ago before their own technology matured to compete on even levels with foreign firms.There is nothing to be ashamed for 'copy cat' technologies.Who says one should reinvent the wheel when some one else has already done it ? It takes some maturation of the technological level of a country to produce a working copy of almost anything ! After copy cat producing so many technologies for some time , where will china be 10 years from now and where will India be after paying through its nose for almost all high tech items, both economically and politically ? Technologies will get obsolete and money gone is gone for ever., but the expertise built up indigenously will stay and progress.China will progress by building on the technologies of others , but India .. ?

Even the russians followed it after the WW2 from the booty they got .
Initially they were lagging in quality/capability aspect of the reverse engineered platform, but as their own R&D matured ,they improvised on the existing concepts,.
But they still follow those ways ,like the development of PAK FA !

chiragAS · Post by **chiragAS** » 07 Mar 2010 15:34

VinodTK wrote:Younger brother concerned about older brother.

please don't misunderstand me,
with all due respects, it would be better not to give their links prominence in BR.

manum · Post by **manum** » 07 Mar 2010 15:48

kit wrote:
China s ability to xerox high tech items point to a political will to build indigenously and build upon it ., this type of effort both stimulates R&D effort to emulate an improvise.This is the same road Japan took many years ago before their own technology matured to compete on even levels with foreign firms.There is nothing to be ashamed for 'copy cat' technologies.Who says one should reinvent the wheel when some one else has already done it ? It takes some maturation of the technological level of a country to produce a working copy of almost anything ! After copy cat producing so many technologies for some time , where will china be 10 years from now and where will India be after paying through its nose for almost all high tech items, both economically and politically ? Technologies will get obsolete and money gone is gone for ever., but the expertise built up indigenously will stay and progress.China will progress by building on the technologies of others , but India .. ?

hi, i am pretty new here...so sorry for some errors...

borrowing an idea and copying things are two different things all together...nothing in military or anywhere is without referring to any history of development, base idea or lineage initiated by other...but intention is important...
i mean...long time intention is important...experimentation with consultation is a difficult path...than copying...but who world shall accept as clear leader...
i believe path for future always lies with our own way of doing things with clear history of experimentation, rather than outright reverse engineering...i also think its a moral question...how we want ourselves to presented in future with what we achieved...
sorry for blabbering though...

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 08 Mar 2010 12:27

Chinese cyber-attacks give NATO sleepless nights

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/mar/ ... er-war.htm

In United States, an official report released on Friday said the number of attacks on Congress and other government agencies had risen exponentially in the past year to an estimated 1.6 billion every month.

WTF

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 08 Mar 2010 12:44

China, Pak to hold military exercise in summer

China and Pakistan will conduct a joint anti-terrorism military exercise here this summer, the third such operation between the two countries, the Ministry of National Defense has said.

Top military officials of the two countries have already started discussions for the anti-terror exercise code-named "Friendship-2010," the ministry said on Sunday.

The training was not targeted at any third party, but aimed at "deepening the friendly and cooperative relationship between the two armies" while "enhancing their capabilities in coping with terrorism and safeguarding regional peace and stability," state-run Xinhua news agency quoted the Ministry as saying

who are they kidding?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 08 Mar 2010 12:57

shukla wrote:China, Pak to hold military exercise in summer

China and Pakistan will conduct a joint anti-terrorism military exercise here this summer, the third such operation between the two countries, the Ministry of National Defense has said.

Top military officials of the two countries have already started discussions for the anti-terror exercise code-named "Friendship-2010," the ministry said on Sunday.

The training was not targeted at any third party, but aimed at "deepening the friendly and cooperative relationship between the two armies" while "enhancing their capabilities in coping with terrorism and safeguarding regional peace and stability," state-run Xinhua news agency quoted the Ministry as saying
who are they kidding?

Each other!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 08 Mar 2010 13:04

RayC wrote:Each other!

Well put

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 10 Mar 2010 04:31

Military reconnaissance satellite launched by China

..............
The Yaogan 9 spacecraft blasted off from Jiuquan on a Long March 4C rocket at 0455 GMT (11:55 p.m. EST Thursday), or 12:55 p.m. local time. The three-stage rocket successfully delivered the secret payload to orbit, the state-owned Xinhua news agency reported.

The Jiuquan launch site is located in the Gobi desert near the border between China's Gansu and Inner Mongolia provinces. Jiuquan has hosted the launches of all three Chinese human spaceflights to date.

Yaogan 9 is the newest member of a series of satellites believed to harbor optical and radar military reconnaissance capabilities.

The satellite "would be used to conduct scientific experiment[s], carry out surveys on land resources, forecast grain output and help with natural disaster-reduction and prevention endeavor[s]," state media reports said.

But most experts believe the Yaogan series includes two variants with high-resolution electro-optical cameras and cloud-piercing radars designed to see targets through inclement weather or darkness.

In the past, optical Yaogan satellites launched from Jiuquan and radar-equipped spacecraft were shot into orbit from the Taiyuan space center in northern China's Shanxi province.

Before Friday's mission, analysts believed China had orbited three electro-optical Yaogan satellites and five radar payloads.

Previous Yaogan launches from Jiuquan used the less powerful Long March 2D booster. The Long March 4C launched Friday includes a restartable third stage to increase payload performance. Chinese officials did not address the change in rocket, but the more powerful launcher could indicate the mission carried an upgraded Yaogan satellite. ...............

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 10 Mar 2010 04:38

Carl_T wrote:What will they copy if no one sells them shit.

Who says that they are only copying!? They are also actively stealing .

Lie, cheat and steal are the SOP of the People's Republic of China scientific development program. This is why they will never defeat the West or America.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Mar 2010 02:09

^^ You seem to miss the point then!

Who's worrying about Defeating the West or America??? All they want to do is to PEACEFULLY build up their capability so the WEST or AMERICA (heck even INDIA) would think a GAZILLION times before ATTACKING CHINA!!!
It's all a DEFENSIVE Posture! Remeber China is a Peceful country?? (this by the way if you couldn't tell is Sarcasm!)

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Mar 2010 02:30

China’s Military Budget 2010-The Hidden Contents

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 11 Mar 2010 02:35

Craig Alpert wrote:^^ You seem to miss the point then!

Who's worrying about Defeating the West or America??? All they want to do is to PEACEFULLY build up their capability so the WEST or AMERICA (heck even INDIA) would think a GAZILLION times before ATTACKING CHINA!!!
It's all a DEFENSIVE Posture! Remeber China is a Peceful country?? (this by the way if you couldn't tell is Sarcasm!)

I understand you were being sarcastic, I actually think this is true though. To us they are a threat, but to the rest of the world, I do think they should see China's mobilization as defensive and not see them as early 20th century Japan.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Mar 2010 02:40

Carl_T wrote: \I understand you were being sarcastic, I actually think this is true though. To us they are a threat, but to the rest of the world, I do think they should see China's mobilization as defensive and not see them as early 20th century Japan.

No harm brother, lolz but this was actually meant for Brando.... ALL IZ WELL though!

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Mar 2010 05:19

Taiwan says China now has edge in air power

Taipei: China now has better fighter jets than Taiwan, according to a military report by the island's defence ministry as the air force Monday renewed its bid to obtain new F-16s from the United States.

Of the three types of fighter jets in Taiwan's air force, only the F-16A/Bs have a slight edge over the Chinese aircraft, the report by the defence ministry found, the Liberty Times newspaper said Monday..

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 14 Mar 2010 16:29

Chinese navy has no plan for overseas bases

Tushar · Post by **Tushar** » 15 Mar 2010 01:50

shukla wrote:Chinese navy has no plan for overseas bases

I am surprised to read this, and how this will play into the string of pearls strategy. I still am unaware if Gwadar or Sri Lankan ports can be designated as naval bases. Maybe the Indian media knows something the naval staff doesn't.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 15 Mar 2010 04:14

^^^^

It is the actions that people trust,not the words.

And if one has to talk specifically about chinese, the past is an eye opener.Dont get carried away with some generals words.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 15 Mar 2010 05:12

I don't think Tushar's essential point is totally wrong. I don't believe the world should look at China as modern equivalent of Pre-WWII Japan, an aggressive militarized state bent on expansion. It wants to become a superpower and it is simply doing what other superpowers do - using organized violence effectively to support its interests, and speaking out against violence when it suits them.

But where Tushar is wrong is that India should not adopt that particular viewpoint. To us, they are a state occupying our land and claiming our land as theirs.

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Mar 2010 06:52

Tushar wrote:
shukla wrote:Chinese navy has no plan for overseas bases
I am surprised to read this, and how this will play into the string of pearls strategy. I still am unaware if Gwadar or Sri Lankan ports can be designated as naval bases. Maybe the Indian media knows something the naval staff doesn't.

Chinese talk is usually opposite of their real intention.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 15 Mar 2010 10:12

Reverse engineering is an art that the chinese have perfected for their own good. Our own moral high ground and bloated national ego is actually costing our future, more money and the lives of our jawans. What if their product is not as good as the original stolen from the west/US ? none of their neighbors - including the Russians - are as advanced as the west. They can play a number game - large quantities of slightly inferior systems.

Their cyber and industrial espionage has also been proved beyond doubt. When the world stops selling technology to the Chinese, they readily steal it. If you can not keep your military secrets its not the problem of the Panda. Think about the strategic independence - lack of sanctions is reason enough to develop reverse engineering capability.

The west steals our hard earned money by selling us products (but holding the technology), I dont see anything wrong in us stealing their technology. Every rocket and ICBM today is inspired by the german V2s - not copied from, but inspired by!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 16 Mar 2010 19:01

Global Insights: China's Military Buildup Stokes Regional Arms Race

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 18 Mar 2010 13:30

T-96G MBT Tank Deployed Near Indian Border (Tibet) by China for First Time

March 2010 edition of the China Defense News confirms that for the first time in history, the Tibet (Xizang) Military District has organic Main Battle Tank (MBT) Asset.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 18 Mar 2010 19:50

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_con ... TAIWAN_eng

70% of China PLA drills last year were closely related to Taiwan, which indicates that the communist neighbor still takes wars as means to stem Taiwan’s independence, Liberty Times reported.

Taiwan’s governmental websites are also attacked by Chinese hackers for more than 14,000 times, a quadruple growth compared to last year.

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_con ... g=eng_news

China has installed eight battalions of Russian-built missiles in its province of Fujian which could hit any plane flying across Northern Taiwan, reports said yesterday. The Chinese-language Apple Daily quoted the Canadian-registered Kanwa Defense Review as saying that the Chinese air force had put up the S-300 PMU2 missiles at its Longtian base in the province

Ruling Kuomintang lawmaker Lin Yu-fang on the contrary said Taiwan should not be too worried, since its recently ordered Patriot Advanced Capability-3 or PAC-3 missiles covered all Chinese jets moving over the Taiwan Straits

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 19 Mar 2010 19:13

China unveils homemade AC313 large civilian helicopter

China's first domestically developed civilian helicopter has completed a successful maiden flight in Jingdezhen, in the eastern province of Jiangxi.

The heavy-lift AC313 helicopter, built by the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic), can carry 27 passengers or up to 13.8 tonnes.

It is designed to be used for rescue missions in earthquakes, typhoons and other natural disasters.

It is the latest advance for the country's ambitious aerospace industry.

At last month's Singapore Air Show, Beijing unveiled the Comac C919 aircraft - China's answer to the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320, which should be available commercially by 2016.

The AC313 has a maximum range of 900km (560 miles), the state-run China Daily reported on its website.

Its test flight - broadcast live on China Central Television on Thursday - was hailed as a "breakthrough in domestic aviation technology", it added.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 20 Mar 2010 03:21

^^ Same story

China tests 1st self-developed heavy-lift chopper

State-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China staged a successful maiden test flight Thursday of its self-developed heavy-lift helicopter, the latest advance for the country's ambitious aerospace industry.

The 13.8-ton AC313 can carry 27 passengers or 15 injured on stretchers, and has a maximum range of 560 miles (900 kilometers), according to the Web site of the official People's Daily newspaper. It was successfully test flown Thursday morning in Jiangxi province, the paper said.

The aircraft appears to be larger version of the 7-ton Zhi-8 medium transport helicopter, itself a close copy of the French SA 321 Super Frelon. China bought 13 of the French helicopters in the 70s and at least one was reportedly disassembled for study and reverse-engineering.

So basically this is the offspring of a ******** product ? How very Chinese!

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 20 Mar 2010 06:23

Brando wrote:^^ Same story

So basically this is the offspring of a ******** product ? How very Chinese!

Brando while not disputing the fact, would like to highlight (if my assumption is correct, as I have yet to see any information on this) Reverse Engineering and all is great, but the FACT here is that they have an Engine, (if it is reverse engineered) then they are well ahead of it wrt to Hal's Dhruv. Dhruv is in a different class/category, and one my say 75% Indigenious, but the Shakti Engine is still Turbomeca's (regardless of what one might call a JV!)... SO developing an Engine on it's OWN is to ME a big deal!
just my 2 cents!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2010 07:42

what engine is this heli using? web reports speak nothing of the engine except speculation it may be same as the smaller euro helis or mi17v engine....

is there any good source which speaks of the engine used?

chand · Post by **chand** » 21 Mar 2010 01:57

I don't think it is a homemade engine, most likely one from Canada.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Mar 2010 22:27

Russia Looks East and Sees Storm Clouds (Part One)

During the same period, Lieutenant-General Vladimir Chirkin, the recently appointed commander of the Siberian Military District, announced the deployment of two brigades to the Chinese border near Chita. Chirkin stated that the brigades were deployed there to counter the presence of 5 People’s Liberation Army (PLA) combined arms armies across the border. From 2003 to 2007 Chirkin commanded an army in the Siberian military district. On the rationale for the deployment, Chirkin stated: “We are obligated to keep troops there, because on the other side of the border are five Chinese armies and we cannot ignore that operational direction.” He added that the defense ministry intended to develop an army headquarters for command and control of the brigades (Voenno Promyshlennyi Kuryer, March 3).

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Mar 2010 22:45

the engine options are

P&W canada's PT-6, a variant of which powers the NAL saras incidentally.
or
klimov VK-2500 that powers the mi-17's PRC makes under licence and I think this one is the most likely.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 22 Mar 2010 00:51

Russia Looks East and Sees Storm Clouds (Part One)

Its is a fact that china has an eye on the eastern side of russia, may be they already had started capturing small parts of land .

Its also well known that russian army is much reduced in its size since 1990s and hence it would be difficult for them to monitor all those difficult terrain with china(when we have difficulty in keeping pla contingents crossing the borders,think of smaller russian army,that too much corrupT than ever) ,

I think chinese could do a 1962 on russia any time, thats why they are preparing so heavily,, to expand.

if not taiwan,India,SE asia,let it be russia then !!

amirkhan would love that ,lest not involve in this cat fight ,but it is waiting for some reason to block central russia .

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 25 Mar 2010 12:50

Allright guys just found some very cool pics of the J-10 crash, apparently crashed back in 2007 but the pictures have leaked out.

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... -down.html

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 25 Mar 2010 12:52

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... -dock.html

Their Carrier is out of the dry dock.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Mar 2010 05:43

Brahmananda wrote:Allright guys just found some very cool pics of the J-10 crash, apparently crashed back in 2007 but the pictures have leaked out.

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... -down.html

thats the beauty of the Chicom system..in India if the LCA had crashed, the newspapers would be jumping over each other talking about it. In China it happened in 2007 and now in 2010 we're seeing pics. God knows how many of their J-6 and J-7 rust buckets have crashed to date..no official or even semi-official attrition records are available on the net.

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 26 Mar 2010 07:15

Kartik wrote:
Brahmananda wrote:Allright guys just found some very cool pics of the J-10 crash, apparently crashed back in 2007 but the pictures have leaked out.

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/ ... -down.html
thats the beauty of the Chicom system..in India if the LCA had crashed, the newspapers would be jumping over each other talking about it. In China it happened in 2007 and now in 2010 we're seeing pics. God knows how many of their J-6 and J-7 rust buckets have crashed to date..no official or even semi-official attrition records are available on the net.

I would argue, that is the beauty of Indian system... it makes sure LCA does not crash like J-10...