China Military Watch

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 21 Oct 2009 22:11

Narayana Rao wrote:I am surpriced at the distence in which is thing has taken place. Is this some sort of drama so that China can have some reason to increase its presence in Indian Ocean ?

they don't need an excuse. it's likely to be an H&D exercise given IN's high profile intervention.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chanakyaa » 21 Oct 2009 22:52

My apologies if this has already been posted..
China Puts RFID Active Satellite Tracking on Weapons Sold to Iran, Syria, and Al Qaeda

Thanks to close ties between the United States CIA and Beijing, the Chinese have agreed to continue to implant secret devices in “all” of the major weaponry they sell to foreign rogue nations such as Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Pakistan, and even Al Qaeda. These special devices will only be activated when hit with three simultaneous frequencies, which then triggers a micro-sensor that relays up to the satellite. This way in case any of these nation-states or terrorist groups intend to use such weapons on Israeli or US positions or military assets, they will be immediately identified and targeted by UAV in the battlespace.

Why was this done? It was done under a secret agreement so that the US would not call for a boycott of Chinese Products into the US, which would cripple China’s economic engine and cause them to implode economically. Why is this important for the USA? Simple, knowing where these high-tech weapon assets are helps the United States military take care of business, thus, rendering those enemy war-fighters, and/or terrorists deleted and it still gives China the benefit of the revenue from the sale of these military weapons. Everyone wins, except those nations or bad guys buying the products.

Indeed, it also helps the Chinese Military in case those weapons fall into the hands of forces that would challenge China in any given area of the globe. It is especially good for China’s involvement in Africa, where they are selling weapons to rogue regimes that may not be in power in the future, and those weapons could fall into the hands of those who oppose Chinese exploits of raw materials in those countries.
Last edited by Rahul M on 22 Oct 2009 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: I don't know if this comes as a surprise but most people here CAN actually read normal sized fonts. so kindly don't use the large fonts.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby animesharma » 21 Oct 2009 23:29

please put the link as well.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Raveen » 22 Oct 2009 00:16

chanakyaa wrote:My apologies if this has already been posted..

China Puts RFID Active Satellite Tracking on Weapons Sold to Iran, Syria, and Al Qaeda

Thanks to close ties between the United States CIA and Beijing, the Chinese have agreed to continue to implant secret devices in “all” of the major weaponry they sell to foreign rogue nations such as Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Pakistan, and even Al Qaeda. These special devices will only be activated when hit with three simultaneous frequencies, which then triggers a micro-sensor that relays up to the satellite. This way in case any of these nation-states or terrorist groups intend to use such weapons on Israeli or US positions or military assets, they will be immediately identified and targeted by UAV in the battlespace.

Why was this done? It was done under a secret agreement so that the US would not call for a boycott of Chinese Products into the US, which would cripple China’s economic engine and cause them to implode economically. Why is this important for the USA? Simple, knowing where these high-tech weapon assets are helps the United States military take care of business, thus, rendering those enemy war-fighters, and/or terrorists deleted and it still gives China the benefit of the revenue from the sale of these military weapons. Everyone wins, except those nations or bad guys buying the products.

Indeed, it also helps the Chinese Military in case those weapons fall into the hands of forces that would challenge China in any given area of the globe. It is especially good for China’s involvement in Africa, where they are selling weapons to rogue regimes that may not be in power in the future, and those weapons could fall into the hands of those who oppose Chinese exploits of raw materials in those countries.


^^^Ahem...please puff, puff, pass...that stuff you are smoking seems very potent


nukavarapu wrote:Is it only me, or there are other Jingos who think that China has started countering India and its gonna be soon that they charge on us.

Looking at the recent events and articles that are coming up in Chinese press, its hinting to me that they have activated the war strategy against India. Following points are the precursor to my theory:

1.) Building Infrastructure in Tibet
2.) Being Aggressive about Tawang and Arunachal Pradesh.
3.) Report in press about breaking india into small provinces. (This report would be a psy-ops for Chinese common man, so that when china enters war, the people would support the leadership's decision.)
4.) Publicizing and over-projecting Agni V (They know they have far more better capabilities with the dongs compared to Agnis and Prithvis. Why did they publisize the capabilities of Agni V? It seems they wanna create insecurity among chinese people and basically brain wash them so that they start looking india as their arch enemy. That will gain enormous support from ppl to the leadership, to take down india!)

Just my Views!


^^^I bet there is Chinese equivalent on a Chinese forum saying the same stuff about India's buildup along the border. The economy is as near and dear to the Chinese as to the Indians...I doubt there will be any major action taken anytime soon.
Last edited by Rahul M on 22 Oct 2009 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited font size.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby animesharma » 22 Oct 2009 01:58

China's navy sails past India's dock

Quotes from the article:
"For the first time ever in the western IOR [Indian Ocean region], India has set up a listening post in Madagascar - a high-tech monitoring station in northern Madagascar. This station is of great significance given its proximity to [the port of] Gwadar [in Pakistan] as well as the Chinese increasing [their] presence in the western IOR. Unlike in other countries of the region, China has not made much headway in Madagascar," said Dr Rajeswari Rajagopalan, senior fellow in security studies at the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi.


In nut and shell.. the article says PLAN is doing xyz, but this xyz doesn't mean xyz and india should trust PLAN for doing XYZ.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby chanakyaa » 22 Oct 2009 18:43

^^^Ahem...please puff, puff, pass...that stuff you are smoking seems very potent


What happened? Bit too much to digest? :)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Raveen » 22 Oct 2009 20:15

chanakyaa wrote:
^^^Ahem...please puff, puff, pass...that stuff you are smoking seems very potent


What happened? Bit too much to digest? :)


No, not really...I have seen better works of fiction than that. I just want to smoke the same stuff the author is on, it's more fun when everyone is high. :rotfl:


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sourab_c » 23 Oct 2009 18:32


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Asit P » 27 Oct 2009 05:16

China defends military growth
WASHINGTON - A TOP Chinese general on Monday defended Beijing's rapid military modernization, including the development of advanced weapons that threaten US forces in the Pacific, as aimed at meeting its minimum defence requirements.

General Xu Caihou, vice chairman of China's military commission, sought to allay US suspicions over the growing might of the Asian superpower by insisting that Beijing harboured no expansionist ambitions and wanted collaborative international relations.

'We will never seek hegemony, military expansion or an arms race,' he told an audience of foreign policy experts at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank.

Gen Xu also defended China's double-digit annual increases in defence spending as 'quite low' both in real terms and as a percentage of its gross domestic product. While US defence spending amounts to 4.8 per cent of GDP, China's was only 1.4 per cent, he said.

The United States has repeatedly urged China to be more transparent about its military spending, warning of a shifting balance of power in the region.

Gen Xu portrayed the Peoples Liberation Army as focused primarily on protecting China's economic development and defending against separatist and extremist challenges, which he said are clearly on the rise. -- AFP


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gaur » 27 Oct 2009 22:42

^^
An example of poorly photoshopped images.
I am unable to open first two images for some reason, but the third pic showing alleged j-xx in flight is clearly photoshopped (and not too subtly either).

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby AdityaM » 27 Oct 2009 23:52

Gaur wrote:^^
An example of poorly photoshopped images.
I am unable to open first two images for some reason, but the third pic showing alleged j-xx in flight is clearly photoshopped (and not too subtly either).

^ How? what is the clue ?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 27 Oct 2009 23:54

3rd one is clearly PS, 2nd one could be but it would need someone more talented at these things than me.first one is an actual pic from some airshow that I've seen before but I don't remember when or which.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Gaur » 28 Oct 2009 00:36

AdityaM wrote:
Gaur wrote:^^
An example of poorly photoshopped images.
I am unable to open first two images for some reason, but the third pic showing alleged j-xx in flight is clearly photoshopped (and not too subtly either).

^ How? what is the clue ?

I am able to open all three pics now.
As RahulM wrote, 1st pic looks genuine enough.
As for second pic, I cannot confidently comment on it. It may be touched, but it would have to be done by an expert.
But as for 3rd pic, there is NO DOUBT whatsoever that it is photoshopped.
Among other things, the lightning and shadows are all wrong. The a/c image is clumsily cut and pasted with a lasso tool.
There is no way in the world that it can be real.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby AdityaM » 28 Oct 2009 00:50

Gaur wrote:But as for 3rd pic, there is NO DOUBT whatsoever that it is photoshopped.
Among other things, the lightning and shadows are all wrong. The a/c image is clumsily cut and pasted with a lasso tool.
There is no way in the world that it can be real.


On a lighter note, this must not be one of their "Clear sky days". All smog, no sun, no shadow.
Real or unreal, what do we gain by denying the pic.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby NRao » 28 Oct 2009 02:22


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 28 Oct 2009 02:23

probably the oldest PS job on the market ! :mrgreen:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby hnair » 28 Oct 2009 02:57

AdityaM wrote:Real or unreal, what do we gain by denying the pic.


Very deep. Kind of like what I heard about Kerala leftists protesting this drydocking and repair contract at Cochin by the imperialist Federation.

(Rahul M-saar dedicated for you, all the way from Canada Shinhooah Agency) :P

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby SriKumar » 28 Oct 2009 07:01

hnair wrote:
AdityaM wrote:Real or unreal, what do we gain by denying the pic.


Very deep. Kind of like what I heard about Kerala leftists protesting this drydocking and repair contract at Cochin by the imperialist Federation.
This is disappointing....yet another maintenance-and-repair contract for the shipyard! I give up. When will they start making these ships? By the way, I hope the di-lithium crystals have been discharged and properly disposed off. Their sensitivity to a high humidity environment has long been a topic of research at the Academy. OT, so I'll stop. :)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 28 Oct 2009 18:35

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:K0 ... clnk&gl=us
The Global Commons

What must not be lost in this discussion is the rise of the Chinese navy. By the next decade, China will have more warships than the United States. They are building submarines five times faster than us as well.9 As the Chinese acquire more deepwater ports, the concept of area denial in the Pacific comes into sharper focus. While the possibility of direct conflict with China is remote, what concerns regional allies is the ability of U.S. ships to freely operate throughout the region, unhindered by the Chinese or any other nation. Since World War II, the Navy has provided critical engagement and deterrence options to U.S. leaders and our key allies in the Pacific.

Military analysts and political leaders devote much time and effort trying to predict future conflicts that will in turn inform requirements and configuration decisions for our military forces. In the requirements business, we live in the world of "five years from now" due to the inevitable delays and limitations or the acquisition process. It's a challenging way to shape a force.

One interesting vision of the future comes from academic and author Robert D. Kaplan. Based on current and projected energy demands, he notes the importance of the vast energy trade transiting the Indian Ocean and Strait of Malacca. Instability in Pakistan and the rise of India are interesting trends in the region. The United States will continue to be tasked to guard the global commons, controlling piracy and providing humanitarian assistance and disaster relief while interdicting terrorism. He notes that by 2030, India will have the largest population of any country in the world.10 With this regional growth, it becomes clear that the competition for resources will be acute. These factors help explain the current naval expansion of both India and China and highlight the need for the Navy to remain engaged in the theater. Kaplan further notes that "the U.S. Navy may in the future be able to work with individual Asian countries, such as India and China, better than they can with each other."


Kaplan's vision of a Navy involved in the theater and engaged with multiple sea-going nations is beginning now. Combined Task Forces 150 and 151 patrol from the Gulf of Aden to the Seychelles and comprise a force of more than 27 different navies, including, interestingly, China. These types of efforts underscore the significant leadership responsibilities of the United States in the region and argue for continued presence.

The Way Ahead

The final argument in favor of continued aircraft carrier construction might be the fact that everybody else seems to be building them. Last November, an official in China's Ministry of National Defense mentioned for the first time in a public venue the possibility of his nation acquiring aircraft carriers. Around the same time, Admiral Hu Yanlin, former political commissar of the People's Liberation Army Navy, stated "China has the capability to build aircraft carriers, and should do so."11 His country has already purchased three carriers built by the former Soviet Union and one built by Australia. It has also been reported that, since 1987, China has been training PLA pilots to one day command aircraft carriers. The United Kingdom, Russia, and India have all shown a keen interest in building carriers.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 28 Oct 2009 18:42


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby abhik » 28 Oct 2009 19:00

Rahul M wrote:3rd one is clearly PS, 2nd one could be but it would need someone more talented at these things than me.first one is an actual pic from some airshow that I've seen before but I don't remember when or which.

Rahul ji, the second one is not the handiwork of a talented photoshopist but a real assembly line of the F-22. One can easily make out from the front portion of the area where the canopy is attached(notice the curved v shape..)

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Kanson » 28 Oct 2009 19:11

It looks more like F-35 than F 22

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 28 Oct 2009 19:32

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedin ... RY_ID=1809
Welcome China to the Fight Against Pirates
By Andrew S. Erickson, Naval War College; and Lieutenant Justin D. Mikolay, U.S. Navy
Google Translate My Page

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The Chinese deployment to the Gulf of Aden is historic and significant.
The ongoing deployment of Chinese naval vessels to the troubled Gulf of Aden signals an important step in the evolution of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). Observers of China's growing naval fleet have long imagined scenarios that might prompt the PLAN to exercise blue-water capability. Few predicted the precise series of events that has revealed this new era of Chinese maritime security.

From 16 to 18 December 2008, Somali pirates tried and failed to hijack a Chinese merchant vessel; the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) provided expanded authority to pursue pirates into sovereign Somali territory; and Chinese officials announced that the PLAN would send three naval vessels to support counter-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden, off the Horn of Africa. The result: On 6 January 2009, Chinese destroyers joined a multinational constellation of naval vessels in cooperation with the Somali Transitional Federal Government to combat piracy.1

Through its Ministry of Communications, Beijing now accepts applications from ship-owners in mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan for the PLAN to escort their vulnerable ships through the Gulf of Aden.2 China has already escorted a wide variety of Chinese and even some foreign ships in an area west of longitude 57 degrees east and south of latitude15 degrees north.3

The United States, in accordance with its new maritime strategy, has welcomed China's participation as an example of cooperation that furthers international security. On 18 December at the Foreign Press Center in Washington, D.C., Admiral Timothy Keating, Commander, U.S. Pacific Command, vowed to "work closely" with the Chinese flotilla, and use the event as a potential "springboard for the resumption of dialog between People's Liberation Army (PLA) forces and the U.S. Pacific Command forces."4

While the Chinese motivation to deploy to the Gulf of Aden clearly springs from a variety of factors, Beijing's contribution to maritime security should indeed be applauded. "This augurs well for increased cooperation and collaboration between the Chinese military forces and U.S. . . . forces," Admiral Keating said. Counter-piracy contributions in the Gulf of Aden support Washington's vision of Beijing as a "responsible stakeholder" that contributes in proportion to the tremendous benefits it receives from—and growing influence it wields in—the international system.

This latest activity has offered a model for how the two great powers might cooperate to promote global security, by:

Producing concrete, timely results at the UNSC
Finding ways to coordinate separate interpretations of international law
Jointly committing necessary resources to achieve shared objectives
This may ultimately allow the two countries to move beyond their tendency to compete and may promote a brighter future of cooperative coexistence. The United States and 16 other nations that participate in counter-piracy operations in the Indian Ocean region—including Indian, Russian, as well as NATO forces—should seek from this unprecedented deployment ways to generate lasting military cooperation with China.

But to accomplish this in a way that does not irritate Chinese sensitivities, we must resist the temptation to exaggerate the deployment's significance. The Chinese effort does not represent, for instance, an immediate power shift in the Indian Ocean, or a Chinese power grab in Africa. To those who remain wary of Chinese ambitions, one important distinction should remain clear: China joined the international community to challenge piracy. It did not join the counter-piracy effort to challenge the international community.

Historical Significance

This is only the third Chinese deployment into the Indian Ocean in more than six centuries. From 1405 to 1433, Emperor Yongle and his successor, Emperor Hongxi, sent Admiral Zheng He and 27,000 men on seven voyages into the Indian Ocean as far as Mombasa, Mecca, and Mogadishu, with multiple stops at Aden. Zheng proclaimed the power and prestige of the new Ming dynasty, fostered tributary relations with kingdoms around the ocean, nurtured existing trade links, and, as a last resort, used force against enemies. In an interesting parallel to the PLAN's new mission, Zheng's forces captured and killed the "Great Pirate" Chen Zuyi at Palembang in southern Sumatra.5


But subsequently China turned inward and suffered a "Century of Humiliation" beginning in 1840, when it was invaded and partially colonized. Not until 2002 did the PLAN send the Luhu-class guided-missile destroyer Qingdao and composite supply ship Taicang and 506 crew members on a global circumnavigation. In 132 days they covered 33,000 kilometers, visiting nine countries (the PLAN has by now called on 40 in total). Yet following the 2004 Indonesian tsunami, Beijing was unwilling or unable to send ships, even as the United States, India, and Japan received significant appreciation for their sea-based assistance.

Now, it seems, Beijing can remain inactive no longer. On 14 November 2008, Somali pirates captured the fishing boat Tianyu 8 and held its 24-member crew captive for three months.6 On 17 December, nine men clumsily seized control of the tanker Zhenhua 4, using makeshift rocket-launchers and AK-47 assault rifles. But an otherwise defenseless crew unnerved the pirates with improvised Molotov cocktails—long enough for a Malaysian military helicopter to force the attackers to retreat.7 Marauders such as these, from towns north of Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, but beyond its control, have attracted a disparate group of international naval vessels to protect the busy transit lane against their incursions. Now China is among those protectors, with two South Sea Fleet destroyers—Wuhan and Haikou—and the supply ship Weishanhu deployed 10,000-kilometers from their homeport in Sanya, Hainan Province.


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Rahul M » 28 Oct 2009 19:50

abhik wrote:
Rahul M wrote:3rd one is clearly PS, 2nd one could be but it would need someone more talented at these things than me.first one is an actual pic from some airshow that I've seen before but I don't remember when or which.

Rahul ji, the second one is not the handiwork of a talented photoshopist but a real assembly line of the F-22. One can easily make out from the front portion of the area where the canopy is attached(notice the curved v shape..)

you are correct. obviously, it had to be on the base of a real image with possible modifications.
since I've seen such chinese handiwork in the past I (incorrectly) assumed this was the case here too, without bothering to identify the actual aircraft.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Juggi G » 31 Oct 2009 22:05

Insatiable Dragon
Brahma Chellaney
The issue up to 1962 was Aksai Chin. But having gobbled up Aksai China, an area almost as big as Switzerland, China now claims Arunachal, nearly three times as large as Taiwan, to help widen its annexation of resource-rich Tibet. Since ancient times, the Himalayas have been regarded as India's northern frontiers. But China is laying claim to Territories South of the Himalayan WaterShed. Having lost its Outer Buffer -- Tibet -- India cannot lose its Inner Buffer -- the Himalayas -- or else the Enemy will arrive in its Plains.

Yet, instead of putting the Focus on the Source of China's Claim -- Tibet -- and on Beijing's attempt to territorially enlarge its Tibet annexation to what it calls "Southern Tibet" since 2006, India fights shy of gently shining a Spotlight on Tibet as the Lingering Core Issue.

Now consider capability: More than 11 years after it gate-crashed the nuclear-weapons club, India conspicuously lacks even a barely minimal deterrent capability against China. Instead of giving Topmost Priority to Building a Credible Deterrent against China -- possible only through a Major Augmentation of Indigenous Nuclear and Missile Capabilities -- India is Focused on the SpendThrift Import of Conventional Weapons.

Let's be clear: No amount of conventional arms can effectively deter a nuclear foe, that too an adversary that enjoys an inherent military advantage against India by being Positioned on the Commanding Upper Reaches of the Himalayas. :?:

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby VinodTK » 03 Nov 2009 05:18


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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Patrick Cusack » 03 Nov 2009 09:04

More stupidity is all one can say.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Asit P » 03 Nov 2009 19:34

Chinese military offers starting bonus to young grads

PLA is now offering up to 24,000 yuan ($3,500) to each graduate joining military service at the point of entry besides the usual salary and perks. The money is being described as reimbursement for college education expenses or assistance to pay off educational loans that some students may have taken.

Either China is going out of its way to take excellent care of its soldiers, or it is faced with the problem of dwindling interest of the young generation towards the armed forces.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Khalsa » 04 Nov 2009 10:28

Most likely the latter. The younger generation of chinese across both ends of the strait is hardly interested in taking over OR defending Taiwain. (hence mandatory in Taiwain to do your 3 years).

However said that... the Chinese still have a huge pool of population with which they can fill their numbers. However the above report seems to be indicative of maintaining quality and not quantity.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajrang » 05 Nov 2009 11:51

Chinese Army excercises near AP

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... extIndex=4

Hope the Chinese don't try a 1962 on Tawang. The timing of this exercise coincides with HH Dalai Lama's visit to AP.

I wonder what the Red Horn Division is?

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby krishnan » 05 Nov 2009 12:10

rajrang wrote:Chinese Army excercises near AP

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... extIndex=4

Hope the Chinese don't try a 1962 on Tawang. The timing of this exercise coincides with HH Dalai Lama's visit to AP.

I wonder what the Red Horn Division is?


Red Horns Division in early 2002 engaged in organising a series of apprentice cadres for unemployed youth of various districts in Lower Assam as part of ongoing efforts to wean the youth away from gun culture.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 21-div.htm

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajeswari » 05 Nov 2009 17:30

It shoud be understood as to what is driving China in this direction now. Constraining India’s growth aspirations and limiting its potential to the South Asian region continue to be underlying objectives in Chinese policies. It might also be in its interests to see much India can be pressured so as to extract the maximum in border negotiations with India. However, there has been so far no studies (am not aware of) that have looked into what is acceptable to the Chinese on the border question. What is the best possible, and the worst possible bargain that they are able to the public which they are willing to settle vis a vis India.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby svinayak » 05 Nov 2009 17:55

rajeswari wrote:It shoud be understood as to what is driving China in this direction now. Constraining India’s growth aspirations and limiting its potential to the South Asian region continue to be underlying objectives in Chinese policies.


That is exactly what Uncle and TSP have in mind for India

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby rajeswari » 05 Nov 2009 18:07

Juggi G wrote:Insatiable Dragon
Brahma Chellaney
The issue up to 1962 was Aksai Chin. But having gobbled up Aksai China, an area almost as big as Switzerland, China now claims Arunachal, nearly three times as large as Taiwan, to help widen its annexation of resource-rich Tibet. Since ancient times, the Himalayas have been regarded as India's northern frontiers. But China is laying claim to Territories South of the Himalayan WaterShed. Having lost its Outer Buffer -- Tibet -- India cannot lose its Inner Buffer -- the Himalayas -- or else the Enemy will arrive in its Plains.

Yet, instead of putting the Focus on the Source of China's Claim -- Tibet -- and on Beijing's attempt to territorially enlarge its Tibet annexation to what it calls "Southern Tibet" since 2006, India fights shy of gently shining a Spotlight on Tibet as the Lingering Core Issue.


There is another issue too. Ever since the end of the Cold War, communism has not been a unifying factor and the CPC has not been able to hold with communism. this remains an old theory; Chinese nationalism has clearly replaced communism. but what is more interesting, (even collaborated by some Hong Kong Chinese) is that they will not be able to take on Japan or Taiwan due to external factors such as the US, but that they will be able to take on India. and they will. this again contextualises recent Chinese actions.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Sudip » 06 Nov 2009 06:17

PLA Air Force's 60th anniversary celebrations

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China-India Border Clash in 1987

Postby Guppa » 07 Nov 2009 04:40

Does anyone have any info. from India's side on this incident?
http://bbs.creaders.net/military/bbsvie ... _id=419356

sevoke
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Re: China Military Watch

Postby sevoke » 07 Nov 2009 09:25

Translation of the url from chinese to english using Google:


China and India Sandor Valley Events
Sent by: three knives November 3, 2009 20:53:24 in [military world] to send a private message
Sandor Valley Events

Said this matter, pure Zhuantie:


In the Sino-Indian border dispute, there is one incident, although few people know, but it is a very important event, the incident almost led to the second Sino-Indian border war, which is in the Shannan area Sandor Valley events.

Incident was in May 1987 of the day, by the Tibet Military District deputy head of Shannan Military Sub-District Frontier Regiment led the organization in a routine border inspection activities triggered. According to the Central Military Commission and headquarters requirements, the Tibet Military District due to bad weather in winter, in December after a year from the arrival of winter between years in April, in order to seal off the snow period, During this period, the border passes and focus of the company in addition to goals, lots to keep monitoring and patrolling, in general, can not be zone-wide inspections. In order to maintain effective control of borders and security, after the lunar new year, by the border defense regiments, an infantry unit and organized into a number of mobile inspection of the detachment of the entire border line, pull the net and carried out the inspection and dispatched to prevent the Indian Army to use this season encroaching our territory. Shannan subdistricts by the deputy head of the regiment's Zhezhi mobile patrol unit led by an infantry company to strengthen a surveillance classes (cavalry), 82 mortar platoon (three guns), a 82 recoilless gun platoon ( 4 guns), a heavy machine gun platoon (three heavy machine guns) formed. As can be seen, this is a fighting stance in accordance with the composition, and may at any time to cope with unexpected situations and the combat patrol unit, all personnel and equipment aboard more than 10 vehicles to carry out its mandate. In addition to deputy head, the command group also includes an operations staff officer, a reconnaissance staff, communications staff and a deputy battalion commander infantry battalions.


When the patrol to Dassant Valley lots more, it was already dark, deputy head of the locally ordered the troops to camp in preparation for the next morning and then went to the southern end of the Sino-Indian border valley to pass inspection. Forces camp on the camp after the dinner break, but the 21 o'clock number, is responsible for camp security guard at night found that the border pass valley on the southern tip of flame and speaking voice, he immediately reported the deputy head. Deputy head of the once up and observe, to confirm that someone in the pass direction of activities, and to determine where the activities for the Indian army. As a result, immediately ordered a reconnaissance, deputy head of the General Staff with a reconnaissance group to pass reconnaissance. Two hours later, the scout reconnaissance staff with a return (the other is still in situ to monitor the Indian Army), reported to the deputy head may have a company of Indian Army has occupied the valley in the past although the two sides without the designation, but the mutual confidence in our one high ground, and has built a combat fortifications. From the detected situation, Indian arrival time is not too long, fortification is not complete, as if is stepping up efforts to build in the. From its state of alert, it seems that did not find our army patrols have already arrived.


Under this scenario, once deputy head of the command staff to open the radio communication contact with the military sub-command, reporting the situation, but because the camps have been completed when the radio communication, but after ten radio stations are not agreed upon contact with the partition of time , radio operator can not be reached with the military sub-district communications. The deputy head of the prompt decision, order, deputy battalion commander and operations staff develop their tactical plans, and ordered the troops to immediately up to combat readiness, the five o'clock dinner, 5:30 start at dawn in a state of war to the Indian Army's total area representations, the radio tomorrow morning at eight, will be the current situation with its own report on the determination and the deployment of military sub-district with the regiment.


Around six in the morning (the dawn of time in Tibet at this time about 7:00 or so), in addition to communications and logistics personnel, patrol the entire grouping of combatants fighting and attacks by deploying into the attack on the starting position. In the position, the deputy head of the unit commanders to the battle once again made clear the plans and combat deployment in the event of accident, the force will take the offensive or defensive depending on the circumstances. Then the fighting forces began to build fortifications. Reconnaissance from the then situation, the Indian army in the valley of the strength of our important high ground about one and a reinforced platoon, but 500 meters later, there is a row of troops, deputy head of the Indian forces to determine about a company, and equipped with 60 mortars and heavy machine guns and other heavy weapons, there may be more in-depth strength and large-caliber artillery support. The deployment from the Indian perspective, was originally prepared to control the high ground on our long-term presence, is indeed eating into my territory, promote the effective control area operations. TNI has been basically completed the combat readiness, according to the normal representations, it will not withdraw from our control area, and is likely to take the initiative to attack me.


Under this scenario, deputy head of the then drafted a telegram, the telegram will be carried out reconnaissance and detailed report once again, and asked for reinforcements immediately, deputy head of the Indian Army to determine this is eating into our territory by force of organized action, is estimated as in the past could not make it out through negotiation, the fighting is likely to explode, and could quickly escalate. We will be in line with the principle of non-fired the first shot efforts to force it to withdraw from negotiations through border areas controlled by our practice, but once the Indian initiative to use force, we will be proactive in ensuring the overall safety and the circumstances, resolutely fight back, and adhere to the reinforcements arrive.


At 8 o'clock or so, with a battalion commander, deputy head of the associate staff and 3 reconnaissance scouts, one newspaper and one translation, then go to Indian occupied our highland justified to intervene, pointing out that Indian Army has already seriously a violation of our territory, and now must immediately make way, otherwise all the consequences arising from the Indian side should be responsible. Reach the Indian Army positions in the deputy battalion commander, through a portable speaker shouted to the Indian Army, the TNI an officer with a few soldiers came down the ground, the Deputy Battalion Commander informed him of his duties and requirements, the Indian Army officers, said This is the territory of India, the Indian army does not retreat, and asked the soldiers to leave, or else all the serious consequences resulting therefrom should be borne by the Chinese side. In the conduct of patient negotiations, the Indian army has always been arrogance, as if the discovery of a small number of Chinese armed forces, the Indian soldiers pointed their weapons at China's representations began to threaten staff, while entrenched on high ground to fight the Indian army also began to activity. Indian officers and soldiers, and even these gestures and language stream staff to negotiate an insult to our military. See the negotiations without results, deputy head of the command staff officer, deputy battalion commander and reconnaissance withdrawn. However, in the process of retracement of our personnel, the Indian suddenly I representations officer shooting (according to the Indian side later explained that because the soldiers tensions caused by fire), on the spot and injuring my deputy battalion commander, the deputy battalion commander later died from blood loss too much expense.


In view of the first Indian to me fired, and wounded my representations to the commander, deputy head, I immediately ordered the troops to attack. At this point, I attacked the starting attack unit has been fully occupied position, and to take a roundabout surrounded by tactical maneuvering to the Indian Army launched an attack on the rear. In my mortars and recoilless rifles and other fire support, I just attacking unit for half an hour, both captured by the illegal occupation of our Indian Heights, Indian Army killed a total of 13 people, including officers, a person (Warrant Officer deputy platoon leader), eight enemy prisoner and the rest flee south, our army had not been pursued. Battle, our dead four people and injuring 11 others. To seize the illegal seizure of our Indian highlands, the deputy head of the defense immediately ordered the deployment of troops in preparation for the fight against the enemy's counterattack. Sure enough, around 2:00 p.m., in the TNI in the depth of the large-caliber artillery support, a reinforced company of the Indian Army is about to begin my defense forces launched an attack, but in our military firepower, the Indian attack soon Refund.


After dark, the Indian army continued to mortars and depth of my positions intermittent artillery fire attacks, deputy head of the Indian army may be judged dawn the next day will continue to attack, ordered the troops to increase repair fortifications, do a good job against the enemy large-scale offensive preparation. All our military combatant commanders, all-night build fortifications, leaving the use of Indian engineering equipment and materials, the rapid completion of defensive preparations and deployment, vigilant Indian attack. Meanwhile, the deputy head will have happened in Shannan promptly to the Mission and the Department of Military Sub-District has done a report, said it would stick to the last one.

Shannan receiving the deputy head of the military sub-report, immediately to the Tibet Military Region, Chengdu Military Region, reported on the current situation occurred, and immediately transferred to organize mobile forces to reinforce patrols. Immediately ordered the heads of the Tibet Military District 53 Mountain Infantry Brigade to urgent calls for reinforcements Sandor valley direction, while reporting the Chengdu Military Region and the War Department General Staff.


Third day of the dawn, the Indian Army turned to a reinforced battalion of troops in the artillery fire support, to my Border Patrol launched an offensive, the fighting continued into the afternoon, due to the tenacious fight our army, the Indian Army in dozens of casualties people, stop the attack. But the attendant was sent Indian fighters and helicopters on our side of the continuous surveillance, threats, and the steady increase in strength in depth, it seems ready for a bigger offensive.


But on the third night, I Shannan subdistricts an infantry battalion reinforcements arrived first and immediately entered the defense area, and strengthen defense forces. The fourth day, I have 53 mountain infantry brigade will begin to arrive, bringing large-caliber artillery pieces and rocket launchers, and further enhance our strength. Meanwhile, the Tibet Military Command quickly sent forces deep in the valley opened Santos advance command post, ready to organize forces to the Indian aggression fight back, will be completely expelled from our Indian territory.

As the growing strength of our military reinforcements, the Indian army may have to determine its full-scale attack was launched, so, also began to constantly mobilize manpower, the Indian Army Headquarters, Military Region to the east sent a war mobilization order began a large-scale to the conflict enhance the strength of the region. Two weeks after the conflict, the Indian army has been mobilized in this direction, a headquarters, two divisions and a total of about 7 brigades and a lot of artillery and tanks, deployed with the armed forces to conduct a large-scale war effort.


In view of the Indian Army responded quickly, troop movements quickly and easily, our judgments have the expansion and upgrading of Indian war, the possibility of war in response to Indian provocations, the General Staff Operations, 13,21,54 to the first Army issued a pre-orders, required to prepare three army troops to Tibet to participate in a pre-printed self-defense operations, to determine the first batch of 149 troops entered the war divisions, 37 divisions, 61 divisions and 160 divisions (ie, in the Sino-Indian border in 1962 to obtain counterattack walung victory of the 130 divisions), and requested the Chengdu Military Region forward command post set up in Tibet, organized fighting forces scheduled to go to the theater commander surveying roads and terrain. Conflict, two weeks later, I scheduled the fighting forces of the air above the division commander arrived in front, began to look at the terrain and road conditions, and carrying out their assigned head of the Chengdu Military Region, ordered the intended combat missions. June fighting forces, the commanders of the regiment and battalion levels to reach the front line, organizing a look at the terrain, carrying out their assigned tasks, of which 149 teachers and 37 divisions of the vanguard had reached the front line.


According to the Central Military Commission officer "to exercise restraint, and resolutely to counter" the operational guidelines and instructions, head of the Chengdu Military Region, the former refers to the determination is: 13 Army commanding 52 Mountain Infantry Brigade, 37 Division and the 160 division in the direction of Bapu Ka walung and combat ready fighter of the Indian Army located in the direction of the first two divisions, the former refers to the Tibet Military Region command 53 Brigade, 149 divisions and 21 divisions, so that cases in Germany to Lalu lot operations, ready to hit Indian fighter 4th Division, the camera resolution against Indian 17 division. Requiring the troops to battle in the assembly and preparation by the end of June, July started as a battle of the initial time, when the second batch of combat troops began to arrive after the attack. Indian campaign to wipe out the front two main divisions, to recover possession of the South will focus on two objectives of the land in dispute, in one fell swoop to solve the territorial boundaries of our claims.


India at that time to determine the direction of our army has been in Yunnan, the Vietnamese army with combat, it may be difficult at the same time respond to the direction of Tibet, it was nothing to fear and the threat of war against me. However, as army reinforcements quickly maneuver in place quickly and continuously transferred from the mainland before the crack of the main force, the Indian army began to feel the seriousness of the situation and demanded the Soviet Union for support. TNI was large-scale war may be imminent at any time, it may evolve into the second Sino-Indian border war. To this end, India launched a fierce internal debate, not only can win in this war? Due to internal disagreements, while the Soviet Union since Mikhail Gorbachev came to power, the Soviet Union faced serious political and economic difficulties, the Soviet Union when both said that India can not support the war and asked India to abandon its war plans, to conduct political negotiations with China, the peaceful settlement of border conflict. At the same time, the Soviet Union also sent a special envoy to China pledged to try to stop India's war effort. India is also within the intellectual faction prevailed, and so the Indian Army began to take the initiative to withdraw troops from the contact with the armed forces, and through diplomatic channels and I asked the peaceful settlement of the conflict.

In view of the position of India has started to retreat from the war, but also expressed do not want a war with China, the attitude and take the initiative in order to withdraw the troops Santos Valley had control of both the traditional areas, the Chinese Government has accepted the Indian idea of a peaceful settlement of the conflict, in August, the Central Military Commission lifted the mandate of the Force combat missions in Tibet mission, the former out to Tibet's forces and command structures gradually withdrawn in the Mainland. China to the Indian side handed over the bodies of prisoners of war and died.

This is a very regrettable campaign actions, the reason why the last to recover possession of the South have not been able to reach the most important reason, not because of India's back, and because our military operations in Yunnan, when the central government that can not be two direction at the same time fighting with the two countries, especially with a large country like India, once the war began, size, time and development is difficult to predict, so finally gave up the offensive, we are ready to the vast number of officers and men of war whom the distraught invariably sigh, if it was war, which India will not only lose my southern Tibet occupation of land will lose his self-confessed two flagship divisions - the 2nd and 4th divisions hit by the iron fist of our military, this war will be than the last time a war against greater losses because our military strength and firepower for this mobilization, far exceeding the combat force in 1962.

Strategic opportunities is such that once lost, it is difficult to ask to return, India should survive the combat and lessons of joy, and we will not compete for the actions of this regret. It is precisely because of this conflict alert, the new Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi came to power, they immediately put forward the policy of detente with China and both sides began negotiations on a political settlement of border issue.

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Re: China Military Watch

Postby Vriksh » 08 Nov 2009 01:45

Chinese Y-XX transport a/c to be unveiled Dec 2009 for flight testing. 200 Tonne payload capacity (C-17 Globemaster class)

Possible rendering:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7027/newlifter1.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5108/newlifter2.jpg

Gotta hand it to them... they think big and have made some impressive strides in many fields. Hopefully will kick some sense into Indian strategic corridors in a hurry.

having competition is good... gets the juices flowing.


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