Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Feb 2011 10:01

Sayak wrote:New estimates put Pakistan's nuclear arsenal at more than 100

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...013004136.html

Numbers are all guess work , no one knows for sure how much fissile material and weapons that each country has , but some wikileaks document does mention that Paki has been feverishly adding fissile material in past 2 years , they do have some new unguarded plutonium enrichment facility coming up , so all in all we cant be absolutely certain on any number that this or that agency or think tank puts up but the trends would indicate the numbers are rising.

wig · Post by **wig** » 01 Feb 2011 10:35

ISI offered $1.5m to kill India’s envoy in Afghanistan

Kabul: Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) is allegedly reported to have offered $1.5 million to an Afghan journalist to assassinate India’s Ambassador to Afghanistan Jayant Prasad and $0.8 million dollars to kill Baloch leader Brahmdagh Bugti. In an interview aired on a Punjab-based television network tonight, Nawab Momand, who has worked with several leading media organisations, including Afghanistan’s popular Tolo TV and Arman Radio, Afghanistan’s first FM radio station, reveals that the ISI deposited $0.8 million with a Kabul jeweller to be paid to him on the day he killed Bugti, the grandson of the legendary Baloch leader, Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110201/world.htm

Don · Post by **Don** » 01 Feb 2011 19:52

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pakis ... t_999.html

Pakistan's nuclear arsenal tops 100: report

by Staff Writers
Washington (AFP) Jan 30, 2011

Pakistan has doubled its nuclear weapons stockpile over the past several years, increasing its arsenal to more than 100 deployed weapons, The Washington Post reported late Sunday.

Citing US non-government analysts, the newspaper said that only four years ago, the Pakistani nuclear arsenal was estimated at 30 to 60 weapons.

"They have been expanding pretty rapidly," the report quoted David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security, as saying.

Based on recently accelerated production of plutonium and highly enriched uranium, Islamabad may now have an arsenal of up to 110 weapons, Albright said.

As a result, Pakistan has now edged ahead of India, its nuclear-armed rival, The Post noted. India is estimated to have 60 to 100 weapons

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Feb 2011 09:39

On a lighter note few young turks of PAF have created this video ( via keypubs )

http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/62088/index.html

nits · Post by **nits** » 02 Feb 2011 09:55

Don wrote:http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pakis ... t_999.html

Pakistan's nuclear arsenal tops 100: report

As a result, Pakistan has now edged ahead of India, its nuclear-armed rival, The Post noted. India is estimated to have 60 to 100 weapons

Forget india its all set to overtake France and UK : - Pak overtakes UK in nuclear capability: Report

"New American intelligence assessments have concluded that Pakistan has steadily expanded its nuclear arsenal since President Obama came to office, and that it is building the capability to surge ahead in the production of nuclear-weapons material, putting it on a path to overtake Britain as the world's fifth largest nuclear weapons power," The New York Times reported.

"The country already has more than enough weapons for an effective deterrent against India ," an official said speaking on condition of anonymity.

Thomas Kolarek · Post by **Thomas Kolarek** » 02 Feb 2011 10:24

They are stockpiling 100's of Nukes for some other country - probably Saudi's.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Feb 2011 12:40

Thomas Kolarek wrote:They are stockpiling 100's of Nukes for some other country - probably Saudi's.

For the entire islamic world. The US and P5 are allowing it.
The plan is the make the Sunni Islam balance the Shira Iran nuke pwoer and create balance of terror

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 02 Feb 2011 13:19

US and P5 -- is india part of the 5 ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Feb 2011 14:05

US is part of the P5, India is not
(US, Ru, Ch, UK, Fr)

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 02 Feb 2011 14:08

i know lalmohan bhai. just checking to see if acharyaji was implying anything there.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 02 Feb 2011 14:39

Someday the islamic fanatics are going to use these nukes against us . And there is nothing we can do about it . We cant snatch it neither could the americans (sponsors of the pislamic bomb) have them, they are already loosing stage in afpak.
Allah is already blessing Chimerica for letting these psyco murderers have pislamic bombs to use against pagan yindoos .

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 02 Feb 2011 17:01

Austin wrote:On a lighter note few young turks of PAF have created this video ( via keypubs )

http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/62088/index.html

BTW, here is the youtube link if someone is having a problem with the above site.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Feb 2011 17:08

^^
B.E.N.I.S.worthy

Ashutosh Malik · Post by **Ashutosh Malik** » 02 Feb 2011 17:58

nits wrote:
Don wrote:http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pakis ... t_999.html

Pakistan's nuclear arsenal tops 100: report

As a result, Pakistan has now edged ahead of India, its nuclear-armed rival, The Post noted. India is estimated to have 60 to 100 weapons

Forget india its all set to overtake France and UK : - Pak overtakes UK in nuclear capability: Report

"New American intelligence................, putting it on a path to overtake Britain as the world's fifth largest nuclear weapons power[/b][/u]," The New York Times reported.

"The country already has more than enough weapons for an effective deterrent against India ," an official said speaking on condition of anonymity.

Hmmm! So, every year we have such items. Who plants such items?

So next they will cross the Chinese (or have they already crossed them too!). Then the next would be Russians and the Americans, given that they are already reducing their stockpiles in the new START! Ha ha ha!

Seymour Hersh used to do this kind of reporting earlier. Typical planted stuff on him, from what I gather. Whenever US intelligence had a game in mind they used Seymour Hersh.

On a more serious note - Does Pakistan even have the Uranium refining capability to get 100 weapon worth of material? Sometime back they started on the Plutonium path because the Uranium refining is not that easy a stuff to do and they were obviously facing difficulties - what with the centrifuges in Iran (which seem to have the same design as those in Pakistan) also not working fine (even when we do not take into account the Stuxnet attacks).

Similarly it would be interesting to find out whether Pakistan actually did the 6 tests in 1998? Or was it the typical India+1 kind of equation? Did they have enough material to waste on 6 nuclear tests?

But then these games will carry on.

Best regards.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 02 Feb 2011 20:27

Gaur wrote:
Austin wrote:On a lighter note few young turks of PAF have created this video ( via keypubs )

http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/62088/index.html

Last few moments are facts..

!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Feb 2011 22:14

Ashutosh Malik wrote: Similarly it would be interesting to find out whether Pakistan actually did the 6 tests in 1998? Or was it the typical India+1 kind of equation? Did they have enough material to waste on 6 nuclear tests?

They claimed 6 tests but there was only one squiggle on seismograph which was assessed as having half the yield of the Indian tests. And only one quivering white mountain video.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Feb 2011 23:13

I pity your ignorance, did you know they used Djinn tech to muffle the seismic waves

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 03 Feb 2011 00:34

"6 tests" seem more like Badmash's physics package going off

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Feb 2011 03:02

Acharya wrote:
Thomas Kolarek wrote:They are stockpiling 100's of Nukes for some other country - probably Saudi's.
For the entire islamic world. The US and P5 are allowing it.
The plan is the make the Sunni Islam balance the Shira Iran nuke pwoer and create balance of terror

US is part of the P5, India is not
(US, Ru, Ch, UK, Fr)

So Pak is the location which the US and its allies can also create a road block to Iran and its ambition in the persian gulf.
So Pak is not just a geography but also an instrument of policy for superpower. It is also a weak country and malleable till now with the army in control. Americans like it this way.

It is now a major factor for the persian gulf and it is also being used a instrument for social changes across the entire region.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 Feb 2011 12:15

They didn't test 6 bums.
The Chinese tested their new bum design (possibly a Neutron bomb?), because soon after that the chinese were claiming that they had (acquired) neutorn weapons tech. To which BARC scientists also said that that technology was not unusual or unachievable for BARC.

The Pakistanis tried to test their own bomb a week or so earlier, but it didn't do off, or it didn't go nuclear. Numerous well regarded observers have hinted at this. Then musharraf had to rush to Beijing to request them to preserve H&D, and so the chinese brought their own weapons and tested them. Meanwhile they were scared that the IAF will intercept the shipment midway, so they made that story of IAF planning to attack the test site

The videos of a hillock squiggling are of the first day's test. Again that same evening different pakistani netas, scientists and faujis were saying different things about the number of bombs tested and the yeilds, because these guys were all over TV to take credit. It was laughable because everyone was obviously lying, and with the world watching.

They tested something two days after the first test. That didn't even disturb the seismographs too much, but that site was nevertheless identified as a very low yield explosion 50 odd kms west of the original test site. That probably was the pakistani design that had been re-tested.

So they probably tested between 2-3 devices and 1 chinese device.

1. 1 pakistani device a few days before the actual publicized test - failure
2. 28 May 1998 - Televised test of 1 Chinese device, possibly one Pakistani device tested simultaneously - result the chinese device probably performed as per the expectations of the chinese designers. Pakistani device did not contribute to the yield - ?Failure.
3. 30 May 1998 - 1 Pakistani device tested 2 days later - again failure / very low yield.

Then there were stories of two North Korean transport aircraft that were parked at Chaklala Air force base, Pindi during the entire events. It was speculated that the Chinese device had been brought in by air on these N korean transport planes.

My 2 naya paisa.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 03 Feb 2011 20:10

If Pak had the world's "fifth largest nuclear arsenal", it would have already surpassed the French, the Indians and the Brits... just saying. And "geostrategery" is off topic for this thread and sub-forum, no?

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 03 Feb 2011 22:08

Austin wrote:On a lighter note few young turks of PAF have created this video ( via keypubs )

http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/62088/index.html

Aren't they going to get into trouble for horsing around in their uniforms and flight suits ? I would imagine if this was done by Indian pilots it would get a reaction from their CO.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 03 Feb 2011 22:10

Gaur wrote:
Austin wrote:On a lighter note few young turks of PAF have created this video ( via keypubs )

http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/62088/index.html

BTW, here is the youtube link if someone is having a problem with the above site.

WHAT ?!

PAF has an "Anu Malik" too ?!

Some TFTA "inspiration" they've got from their TFTA Mai-Baap !

Original Version.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 03 Feb 2011 22:37

This is OT but just as a FYI :

The "original video" was made by the VAW-116. VAW-116 is a US Navy Command and Control Squadron that deploys aboard USS Abraham Lincoln as part of Carrier Air Wing Two. VAW-116 flies the E-2C Hawkeye 2000 aircraft. VAW-116 became "semi-famous" in 2006 for its remake of the "Pump It" music video, by the Black Eyed Peas. The video originated as a project on board ship to fight off boredom and to boost morale, but stemmed into what is almost a full fledged production and a free recruiting ad for the Navy. Pump It has recorded over 3,000,000 views on YouTube. The sequel, a remake of Outkast's video "Hey Ya," included every single member of the Sun Kings and has recorded over 1,000,000 views. Both videos have been shown on national television, and news stations in other countries. (from wiki)

Link to the follow on video "Hey Ya" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEkYqL9n7vo

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 04 Feb 2011 08:00

nirav wrote: WHAT ?!
PAF has an "Anu Malik" too ?!
Some TFTA "inspiration" they've got from their TFTA Mai-Baap !

Original Version.

saale chor kahike..

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 04 Feb 2011 21:17

Afghan War Winnable Without Pakistan: U.S.

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 10 Feb 2011 13:51

Pakistan Tests Babur Hatf-7 Nuclear Capable Cruise Missile

nits · Post by **nits** » 11 Feb 2011 16:18

US tells Pakistan to release Davis or its envoy would be kicked out: Report

The US has threatened Pakistan that its envoy will be "kicked out" if it fails to release the American official arrested for gunning down two men in Lahore by Friday, according to a media report.

National security advisor Tom Donilon told Pakistani envoy Hussain Haqqani that the Obama administration will "kick him out of the US", close consulates in Pakistan and cancel President Asif Ali Zardari's upcoming visit to Washington if US official Raymond Davis is not released by Friday,

Sincere appeal to Pak - Don't let Davis out of your Jail...

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Feb 2011 21:09

The un-uniformed Jihadi’s target the uniformed Jihadi’s.

IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan demonstrated at the Punjab Regimental Centre in Mardan yesterday:

Army training centre hit, 36 killed

A blow for freedom from Punjabi domination by the Pathan / Pashtun or a case of a falling out between uniformed and un-uniformed jihadi’s over who is the more pure Muslim?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 12 Feb 2011 02:47

nits wrote:US tells Pakistan to release Davis or its envoy would be kicked out: Report

The US has threatened Pakistan that its envoy will be "kicked out" if it fails to release the American official arrested for gunning down two men in Lahore by Friday, according to a media report.

National security advisor Tom Donilon told Pakistani envoy Hussain Haqqani that the Obama administration will "kick him out of the US", close consulates in Pakistan and cancel President Asif Ali Zardari's upcoming visit to Washington if US official Raymond Davis is not released by Friday,
Sincere appeal to Pak - Don't let Davis out of your Jail...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2011 20:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frBCCPHyZT4

this is the jf17 performance in zhuhai airshow 2010. lots of sustained horizontal turns on show but the peculiar thing is it NEVER seems to complete the kind of complete vertical loop that tejas and rafale/gripen/ef were doing yesterday! most of the time it climbs to the top of the loop , gets into inverted position and instead of the pilot pulling back on the stick to complete the down part of circle it just rolls again to palta position and levels off and in a couple of cases, rolls palta but takes off in a shallow dive rather than the downward semicircle.

Can anyone explain why this should be be so?

negi · Post by **negi** » 13 Feb 2011 20:45

GD maybe the pilot is only 3g qualified.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Feb 2011 14:14

another pathetic display on pakistan day from the bandar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrNIdbzkwo

note the total absense of any 'strength' in the vertical plane. I am unable to find any J-10 videos either of youtube that show it doing what the eurocanards/tejas did...if anything its displays are lamer than then 2 legged bandar (anyone heard of a 1 legged cheetah?) bandar is only good for one for one thing - going round and round at a its optimum cornering speed...every display is the same.

and mashallah, these two being the mainstay of PLAAF and PAF for the next decade+ there is nothing much to shiver about

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 14 Feb 2011 14:32

Singha wrote:another pathetic display on pakistan day from the bandar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrNIdbzkwo

That vid is from 2007. Incidentally, the two planes were flown that day for H&D purposes only (wonder if the pilots inside were Paki or Chinese?). They went back to China for more tinkering the very next day

.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Feb 2011 15:06

Singha wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frBCCPHyZT4

this is the jf17 performance in zhuhai airshow 2010. lots of sustained horizontal turns on show but the peculiar thing is it NEVER seems to complete the kind of complete vertical loop that tejas and rafale/gripen/ef were doing yesterday! most of the time it climbs to the top of the loop , gets into inverted position and instead of the pilot pulling back on the stick to complete the down part of circle it just rolls again to palta position and levels off and in a couple of cases, rolls palta but takes off in a shallow dive rather than the downward semicircle.

Can anyone explain why this should be be so?

there is no 'need to' complete the loop - as we discussed elsewhere, the top of the loop is the lowest KE point, so if he can fly away from there, he is demonstrating sufficient thrust and control at low energy point (+ve). completing the loop means that PE is converted back to KE and airspeed and therefore controlled flight.

now - if he choses to initiate a loop at low level from straight and level flight then its possible that there may not be sufficient ground clearance with safety margins to dive down and complete the loop, hence shallow dive and exit

i see nothing untoward

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 14 Feb 2011 15:30

At the peak of the loop, the bandar is almost stalling. If the pilot tries to pull any further, the drag will build up pretty fast and aggravate the condition. So the pilot does nothing, no stick pulling at this point. If he does, the increased AOA will stall the plane. At the top the pilot levels off or dives to gain air speed again. Either they haven't tested the envelope sufficiently and taking a risk free approach (satisfying the H&D urge at the same time) or the bandar is indeed a bandar.

Cheers....

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Feb 2011 15:54

the loop is one of the most basic aerobatic moves... probably the first manoever any pilot learns in aerobatics. it is done very simply in light aircraft... shallow dive to build airspeed, push throttle up for power... yank the stick back and hold it back... aircraft rises up quickly... doesnt stall due to the high airspeed and full thrust, goes past vertical, loses energy rapidly as it flips over, goes inverted and sluggish as energy bleeds off... continues round the top and 'falls down' in an arc, airspeed recovers rapidly and controls become responsive... then past the vertical down and into a shallow recovery dive

gravity plays the dominant part in the manoever... any jet fighter can fly a loop... the question is more about what energy state does it start from?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Feb 2011 20:44

cough cough - I myself saw atleast 4 a/c types do energetic loops and come down to nearly treetop level last weekend. there is no reason to claim that adequate safety margins do not exist for zhuhai show when the TFTA EU/USAF was flying this happily over a heavily populated village and 1000s of onlookers here in blr...using afterburners too. these guys respect safety norms even if someone claims sdre hindoo do not.

perhaps the rumoured heavy empty weight of the bandar has some impact on the vertical plane qualities? the J10 is also allegedly quite heavy vs the eurocanards it tries to emulate.

let us scour youtube and any other sources for examples of these aircraft in airshows and see how they compare to the best of the rest.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Feb 2011 21:16

^^^ i am sure you are right about other displays (I too have seen many at different airshows), but i dont see any aerodynamic or flight mechanics reason why the bandar cannot complete the loop, especially the part where gravity is going to do most of the work... the only reason it would not complete a loop from the top of it is if it has stalled and then falls out of the sky before it can recover to controlled flight in the height available. a jet fighter can only get into this situation if it has no energy at the top of the loop at all... which is clearly not the case since the bandar can fly away from the top of the loop

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Feb 2011 07:08

If there is enough airflow over the wings to roll off the top of a loop, there will be enough airflow to complete a loop. The actual reason for not doing a lop may be different and let me make some guesses.

1) The performance was planned at very low altitude with not enough height to recover from a loop
2) There may be some angle of attack restrictions that do not allow the "pitch up" required to flatten out at the end of the loop.

I had downloaded that Bandar video months ago and have watched it repeatedly. I think the Paki pilot flying that demo is a capable guy and does a good demonstration - and is probably right in saying that Pakis give better demos than Chinees "old men in planes"

But I am not sure if I am mistaken in noticing a peculiar thing about that particular video. It's like this: the Bandar shows a distinct tendency to fly a corkscrew pattern when it is rolled several times. Mind you every plane does exactly that when rolled 360 degrees twice or thrice but it seems pronounced in the Bandar. Don't know whether that says something or not. The roll rate in that particular video has not been demonstrated to be very great.