Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby uddu » 29 Sep 2008 21:48

What are the spec for the import helos? Can it be met by our HAL built helicopter?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 30 Sep 2008 13:59

MukulMohanty wrote:To be brutally fair, they need the helos for the 'war on terror'. At least its better justifiable than F-16's. 8 AF-1's wont change the existing situation. Pakistan is terribly short on helicopters and they need them.

Its a small price we have to pay.

Absolutely correct. The number of choppers in PA is dismal. IIRC, PAF doesnt operate choppers, atleast not the AH-1s. And the amount of attrition these undergo is quite high courtesy small arms fire and stingers/others MANPADs lying around in their backyards. IIRC there was a discussion on the deaf and dumb fora that these choppers are lot of times in for maintenance coz of these issues.
The choppers are AH-1s and not AH-64s, and their number is quite small compared the eff-solahs.
uddu wrote:What are the spec for the import helos? Can it be met by our HAL built helicopter?

the specs of the import helos and even LCH are going to better these ones. I think even our current attack choppers are as good if not better than these.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 30 Sep 2008 16:11

New Pakistan spy chief appointed
Lt Gen Ahmed Shujaa Pasha is a former head of military operations who launched recent offensives against militants near the Afghan border.

The new military appointments are being seen as a sign that new army chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani is removing Musharraf supporters and bringing in his own team.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 30 Sep 2008 16:14

IIRC there was a discussion on the deaf and dumb fora that these choppers are lot of times in for maintenance coz of these issues.

Yes, there is a lot of discussions across forums as to how the pakis are struggling to keep the cobras in air since they have almost turned into hangar queens requiring extraordinary maintenance...

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Babui » 01 Oct 2008 02:24


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 01 Oct 2008 12:42

So phase-II of kayani take-over has started
Phase-I Remove all stooges of Musharraf from civilian government posts
Phase-II Remove all stooges of Musharraf from key Army posts and appoint your own.
Phase-III Using/creating some political unrest/neighbourhood military unrest become El-presidante and put your stooges in civilian posts.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 01 Oct 2008 12:46

Phase-I was very important because it gave him more than one advantages
1) Mushy's stooges are removed
2) He appeared to be improving the image of army in public and removing army interference in public affairs something the people are resenting at the moment.
3) All the misgovermand is heaped upon the civilian governmand, actual, perceived or created by him. Thus making marshal law appear better in the view of the public

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 01 Oct 2008 17:45

K Mehta wrote:Phase-I was very important because it gave him more than one advantages
1) Mushy's stooges are removed
2) He appeared to be improving the image of army in public and removing army interference in public affairs something the people are resenting at the moment.
3) All the misgovermand is heaped upon the civilian governmand, actual, perceived or created by him. Thus making marshal law appear better in the view of the public


well said mehtaji!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 10 Oct 2008 18:12

Another F-7 of PAF crashes
ISLAMABAD: A Pakistan Air Force (PAF) fighter aircraft crashed during a training mission near Mushaf Air Base in Sargodha. The pilot ejected safely. The PAF reported that the F-7 fighter aircraft was on a routine operational night training mission, when it went down five miles southwest of the PAF base. No loss of life or property was reported on the ground. A board of inquiry has been ordered by the Air Headquarters to determine the cause of the crash.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby soutikghosh » 12 Oct 2008 19:53

Taliban leader killed by SAS was Pakistan officer-The Sunday Times (UK)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 12, 2008
Christina Lamb in Kabul

British officials covered up evidence that a Taliban commander killed by special forces in Helmand last year was in fact a Pakistani military officer, according to highly placed Afghan officials.

The commander, targeted in a compound in the Sangin valley, was one of six killed in the past year by SAS and SBS forces. When the British soldiers entered the compound they discovered a Pakistani military ID on the body.

It was the first physical evidence of covert Pakistani military operations against British forces in Afghanistan even though Islamabad insists it is a close ally in the war against terror.

Britain’s refusal to make the incident public led to a row with the Afghan president Hamid Karzai, who has long accused London of viewing Afghanistan through the eyes of Pakistani military intelligence, which is widely believed to have been helping the Taliban.

“He feels he has been telling everyone about Pakistan for the past six years and here was the evidence, yet London refused to release it, because they care more about their relations with Islamabad than Kabul,” said a source close to the president. “He knows Britain is worried about inflaming its large Pakistani population, but that is no excuse.”

So furious was Karzai that he threatened to expel British diplomats. When some months later he was informed by the governor of Helmand that British officials were secretly negotiating with the Taliban, he expelled two men and accused Britain of wanting to set up a training camp for former Taliban fighters.

Karzai will visit London next month for talks with Gordon Brown in an attempt to repair the strained relations between the two countries.

“He is very sad about the breakdown of relations with Britain,” said the source. “He loves British culture and poetry, had a British education [at a school in India], likes tea in the afternoon and thinks Gordon Brown is a very decent man, not a cheat.”

British officials in Kabul refused to comment on the allegation that they had covered up the discovery of a Pakistani soldier. They insisted Karzai’s government had been informed of the negotiations with the Taliban, adding that “the camp was just a place for them to be reintegrated, learn about hygiene and things”.

During the war against the Soviet Union in the 1980s, officers from Pakistani military intelligence regularly accompanied Afghan mujaheddin inside Afghanistan and directed operations.

The Afghan claims of Pakistani involvement in Helmand were backed by a senior United Nations official who said he had been told by his superiors to keep quiet after Pakistan’s ambassador to the UN apparently threatened to stop contributing forces to peacekeeping missions. Pakistan is the UN’s biggest supplier of peacekeeping troops.

The coalition’s refusal to confront Pakistan changed after the bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul last July, when 41 people were killed.

According to both British and US intelligence, phone intercepts led directly back to an Afghan cell of Pakistan’s military intelligence.

The past month has seen US forces carry out bombings and a ground raid on Pakistani territory. Claims of Pakistan’s involvement were rejected by Asif Durrani, the country’s chargé d’affaires in Kabul. “Afghanistan wants to blame someone else for its problems and Pakistan is just the whipping boy,” he said.

However, repeated accusations from Karzai about Pakistan’s active support for the Taliban have been backed by a senior US marine officer.

Lieutenant-Colonel Chris Nash, who commanded an embedded training team in eastern Afghanistan from June 2007 to March this year, told the Army Times that Pakistani forces flew repeated helicopter missions into Afghanistan to resupply a Taliban base camp during a fierce battle in June last year. Nash said: “We were on the receiving end of Pakistani military D-30 [a howitzer]. On numerous occasions Afghan border police checkpoints and observation posts were attacked by Pakistani military forces.”

Comments by Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith in The Sunday Times last week that a decisive military victory against the Taliban was not possible and negotiations should be opened have received widespread backing.

General Jean-Louis Georgelin, France’s military chief, said: “There is no military solution to the Afghan crisis and I totally share this feeling.”

Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, who initially dismissed the brigadier’s comments as “defeatist”, said on Friday that the US was now prepared to back talks with the Taliban.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4926401.ece

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby rkhanna » 13 Oct 2008 01:03

Pakistans new locally developed Small Arms

pk-8 rifle 5.56N

Image

Pk-8 in the mans hands, pk-7 in foreground
(pk-8 5.56N pk-7 7.62x39mm)
Image

Sniper Rifle
http://www.ispr.gov.pk/images/Big%20Images/DSC_0037.JPG


The PK series of Weapons seem very close to the HK-33.. Any ToT?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Singha » 13 Oct 2008 08:25

they have a decades long tieup with HK and license produce the G3 and MP-x.
so no surprises they would continue along the HK family of rifles to replace
the outdated G3.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby malushahi » 13 Oct 2008 10:27

soutikghosh wrote:Taliban leader killed by SAS was Pakistan officer-The Sunday Times (UK)


Thanks Soutik for the article. Little bit of deja vu because sometime back I was going through this Navy Times story - maybe OT, hence not posting in full.

US officer: Pakistani forces aided Taliban

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby narmad » 16 Oct 2008 07:53

US pushing for Pak F-16 upgrade
The Bush administration is pressing the Democrat-controlled Senate to allow completion of an $ 891 million upgrade of F-16 fighter jets for Pakistan even as the country is spiraling out of control economically and is reduced to begging for aid from donor countries.
The ongoing mid-life upgrade package for the 30-plus F-16s, including equipping them with night operations capability, is estimated to cost $ 891 million with Pakistan forking for $ 417 million and US providing $ 474 million. Of the latter sum, Washington has already ponied up $224 million but needs Congress's permission for the remaining $250 million

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 16 Oct 2008 11:39

The assessments came as the Pakistan army acknowledged for the first time the presence of US "trainers" who have been deployed at a base close to the Tarbela dam, 20km from Islamabad, the site of the main hub of the country's nuclear arsenal.

Tarbela is the site of the brigade headquarters of Pakistan's crack commando unit the Special Operations Task Force, and reports in Pakistan have claimed a 300-strong "US training advisory group" is now based at Hasanpur, a small town 6km away.

So, the "trainers" must be in charge of the nuke security(assuming no nuke noodity)?

I assume that by SOTF, he means the SSG...wasnt the Tarbela base kaboomed after the lal-masjid incident by a disgruntled SSG beard?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby renukb » 17 Oct 2008 18:32

PAF - new challenges
By AIR MARSHAL AYAZ AHMED KHAN October 7, 2008


http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... challenges

Indian Air Force attack aircraft have been deployed at Jammu, Udhampur, Avantipur in the Kashmir Valley and at Leh airfield in Laddakh, to subdue Kashmiris and crush their struggle for democracy. In the 1999 Kargil war PAF did not confront the IAF, because General Musharraf feared escalation of the conflict into full-scale war. But the lesson of Kargil was that Pakistan needs a strong Air Force.

Going by numbers the Indian Air Force (IAF) is big. It has 1200 aircraft; 750 of which are combat aircraft. But the IAF also suffers the biggest number of air and ground accidents per year. It suffers the biggest numbers of pilot casualties annually. After the death of 200 IAF fighter pilots in MiG-21 crashes, the Mig-21 became infamous as "the flying coffin". IAF top brass is to be blamed, because under training pilots were pushed directly from basic piston engine trainers straight into supersonic Mig-21s for fighter training. This was too big a jump, resulting in high U/T pilot casualties.

Another 200 fighter aircraft including Mirage 2000s, Jaguars, MiG-29s, MiG-27s, MiG-25s and MiG-23s have been lost in air crashes and ground accidents. During the last two decades; the total tally of crashed aircraft being 500, and dead pilots 350, the IAF is a big peacetime loser of combat aircraft and pilots. Such losses had a telling effect on IAF's fighting capability, the combat efficiency and morale of its combat crews. So the IAF had telling weaknesses as well. But IAF has procured 66 Su-30 MK-1 multirole fighter aircraft of advanced technology and high lethality from Moscow. The order was placed for 144 Su-30 MK-I's by Indian Defence Minister George Fernandes on September 27, 1996. He had boasted that, "India will soon rank among big air powers". This statement was made during the induction ceremony of the first batch of ten Su-30MKI multi-role jet fighters in No 20 Lightning Squadron at IAF's Lohegaon Air Base. No 24 Hunting Hawks Squadron equipped with the earlier version of the Sukhoi Mk-30 fighters is also based there. Recently the IAF has deployed ten Su-30 MK-I fighters at Avantipura airfield near Srinager.

The supply of 144 Su-30MK-I's tailor made for the IAF will greatly enhance IAF's air combat and ground attack capability. Added to these are the 60 Mirage 2000-H fighters (of Kargil fame) equipped with advanced laser-guided bombs and BVR air-to-air missiles. The IAF will have a distinct edge in advanced air weaponry over the PAF, as and when the IAF procures all the Su-30MKIs, Mirages and new Mig-29's on order. At the Sukhoi induction ceremony defence minister George Fernandes, pointing his finger at Pakistan, had said that, "The Sukhoi 30 MKI is aimed at silencing those nations who look at us with "buri nazar," (evil intention).The IAF Su-30 MKI is fitted with superior electronics and avionics. It has thrust vectoring (directional control) capabilities, and is fitted with canards. With such improvements the MKI has amazing air combat maneuverability. It can take off with much higher bomb loads, and has a range of 3000 kilometers. It can go deep into China and Pakistan with a full load of conventional and nuclear weapons.

Indian Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal S. Krishnaswamy had stated at the induction ceremony that, "With its ability to engage several targets simultaneously the Sukhoi -30 MKI will redefine the very method of air combat." In a joint exercise with the US Air Force over Occupied Kashmir, these Indian Air Force fighters proved superior to the F-15 air superiority fighters of US Air Force. Besides twin-engine power and safety the MKI is equipped with stealth technology, enabling it to evade radar detection. Indian defense analysts claim that the MKI can outclass China's Su-23 MKK and USAF F-22 and F-15 fighters. The elected government of Pakistan and the PAF must take full cognizance of the induction of 144 Su-30 MK-I aircraft in the IAF, and consequently the enhanced air threat from India. IAF has received 10 new Mirage 2000 H fighters from France and 37 rebuilt Jaguar strike fighters from HAL at Bangalore. But India's Light Combat Aircraft - the LCA under development since 1978 has yet to enter operational service. After 24 air tests, major modifications, the IAF remained highly critical of the LCA, but will be forced to buy up to 400 of these controversial fighters. The LCA will replace the MiG-21 as the IAF's workhorse. The IAF fighter pilots did not trust Indian manufactured MiG-21s which earned such nicknames as "flying coffins", "pilot killers", "widow makers"; and are already distrustful of home made LCA fighters.

Pilot training has been a big problem. IAF pilots were forced into MiG-21 cockpits directly from basic piston engine trainers. The result was high wastage of pilots during operational training. British Hawk advanced jet trainer has now been inducted. It should have been inducted three decades back. It would have saved hundreds of precious lives.. Despite US foot dragging on the supply of F-16 fighters, and numerical disparity, the PAF has proved to be a credible deterrent against Indian air power. This was possible due to the high state of preparedness, readiness and robust morale of the force at all levels. The skillful management of operational assets, exemplary leadership and expertise has enabled the PAF to deter the enemy from any misadventure. The PAF is totally committed to the defense of Pakistan. The government however must realize that the PAF must have matching technology, and numerical balance with the adversary air force, in the entire range of weaponry.

The joint production JF-17 Thunders, procurement of JF-10 air superiority fighters from China, and additional F-16 fighters- should correct the air power imbalance to some extent new combat and strike aircraft are urgently needed for ground attack and close support operations against the terrorists, who hiding in the hills and mountains of Tribal Agencies are mounting deadly suicide bombings on Pakistani cities, cantonments and military posts.

The assassination of Benazir Bhutto and the deadly bombing of Marriott hotel in Islamabad, demands enhanced used of air power to root out terrorists and terrorism from Pakistan's soil. The PAF has been engaged in anti-terrorist operations since several months. Army - air close support operations in the rugged and mountainous areas of Swat and Bajaur have been successful and the terrorists are on the run. Air operations must be sustained till terrorists feel compelled to surrender.

A new dangerous factor is Pakistan's war against terrorists is United States violation of Pakistani air space by drones, gunship helicopters and fighter aircraft. Predator and Rapaer drones have been violating Pakistan's air space, bombings tribal villages and killing Pakistani citizens since 2006. They have killed hundreds of Pakistani citizens including women and children. Washington is disregarding warnings by Pakistani President, Prime Minister, Army Chief and protests by Pakistani public. Pakistani blood cannot be allowed to be shed wantonly. Violation of Pakistani territorial sovereignty must be challenged. Pakistan Air Force must be prepared to shoot down American drones, gunship helicopters and engage USAF fighter aircraft attacking and bombings Pakistani tribal villages. We must not act as frightened crows, when outsiders continue to kill our elders, brothers, sisters and children. Pakistan Air Force must defend Pakistan's air space. PAF's tradition is that it will rise to great heights to defend Pakistan.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby MukulMohanty » 17 Oct 2008 19:02

Most incoherent and unintelligible article ever written.

Inaccurate and incorrect.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JaiS » 17 Oct 2008 19:06

renukb,

This thread exists to track any updates in Pakistani military hardware, strategy and personnel related issues. Please keep this in mind before you post any articles like the one above which is an opinion piece, more about the IAF than the PAF, and a very high level at that.

Thanks.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 19 Oct 2008 14:28

Link
Pakistan to get refurbished warship from US
19 Oct 2008, 1417 hrs IST, PTI
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will receive a refurbished warship from the United States for being a "major non-NATO ally", a special status which allows it
to receive surplus defence equipment from the American armed forces.

President George W Bush signed an order on Friday enabling Pakistan to receive the multi-purpose frigate USS McInerney. The US Congress had approved the transfer on September 27.

Since the warship is 32-year-old, Pakistan has asked for it to be refurbished at a cost of USD 65 million. The overhaul will include the fitting of an anti-submarine missile system, modern guns and other weapons.

Though equipment received from the US under the excess defence article (EDA) arrangement are free, Pakistan will have to bear the expenses for the refurbishing. The Pakistan Navy is expected to receive the frigate in August 2010.

The US recently completed the delivery of 14 refurbished F-16 jets to Pakistan under the EDA arrangement.

Pakistan was designated a "major non-NATO ally" in June 2004 and became eligible to receive surplus defence equipment from the US military. However, there was strong opposition to the transfer of USS McInerney on Capitol Hill, which forced the Pakistan embassy to launch a major lobbying effort to get Congressional approval.

The embassy feared that the proposal could be deferred to the next Congress after the US elections, and this could have delayed the warship's transfer by at least another year.

Surplus defence equipment are weapons and gear no longer needed by the US military. Under the Foreign Assistance Act and the Arms Export Control Act, such equipment can be offered to foreign governments or global organisations in support of US national security and foreign policy objectives.

Is this a rust bucket being disposed by Amrika or is it a decent acquisition?
When the Pakis are scraping the bottom for every cent, wonder where will they get the $65m for the overhaul(acc to the article, Unkil wont pay for that)?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 19 Oct 2008 15:32

The PN surface fleet is a joke. So any addition to it is considered to be significant. Considering what they, have this is a significant addition, what unkil will put in the 65 million $ refurbishment is what is to be watched out.
I dont know how good the surface fleet ASW capability of PN is. That is what this augments. IIRC they were going to retire a couple of ships and this was what would replace them.
They will receive this ship on aug20, 2010. By that time I guess we should start having the project-28 ones, new built ASW corvettes.
The question is how many more of these they will get.
One thing is sure though, they aint gonna use them against Al-Q.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby p_saggu » 19 Oct 2008 16:19

How effective are PN's Agosta 90's, Atlantique, P3C Orion and Mirages, given their numbers, going to be should IN start to take matters in their hand in:
1. Defending their shoreline
2. Countering a Naval Blockade

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 19 Oct 2008 21:06

p_saggu wrote:How effective are PN's Agosta 90's, Atlantique, P3C Orion and Mirages, given their numbers, going to be should IN start to take matters in their hand in:
1. Defending their shoreline
2. Countering a Naval Blockade

How many numbers of each of the above mentioned platforms are with PN/PAF? I have read conflicting numbers for each of the platforms from different sources (Eg: 1 source mentions a single Atlantique while another mentions 4 with the PN)....Which site is reliable for getting approx exact numbers?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby kit » 19 Oct 2008 22:41

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/China_ ... n_999.html

China To Deliver Telecom Satellite To Pakistan

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby KiranM » 20 Oct 2008 09:06

K Mehta wrote:They will receive this ship on aug20, 2010. By that time I guess we should start having the project-28 ones, new built ASW corvettes.

Just out of curiosity, why do we compare Pak ASW capabilty with our ASW capabilty? Shouldnt we be comparing the counter system? With respect to this we should be evaluating Indian submarines IMVHO.
I have noticed this on other occasions as well. We tend to compare Pak/ China system A with our system A, when we should be comparing with our system B that will actually be engaging the system A of Pak/ China. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JaiS » 20 Oct 2008 20:06

Pak, China to jointly establish National Electronics Complex

BEIJING: Pakistan and China on Wednesday signed a framework agreement to jointly establish National Electronics Complex of Pakistan (NECOP). The total amount of the contract, which was signed by Pakistan Ambassador to China Masood Khan and President of CETC Yan Lijin, is estimated at around US $ 300 million, covering civilian, information technology and defense electronic domains in Pakistan.

Through the establishment of NECOP, CETC will help Pakistan achieve indigenous research and development and production capabilities after providing sophisticated training and technical assistance packages by fully utilizing local resources.

The signing of this framework agreement reflected good wishes for bilateral cooperation, strengthening the traditional friendship and also presenting a Science and Technology oriented government image for the newly elected government of Pakistan.

CETC is the largest state-owned Chinese enterprise, specializing in the field of defense electronics, information technology, public security, space, transportation, energy and education.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Johann » 26 Oct 2008 04:18

I dont think this has been posted here, but the PAF has bought four Il-78 tankers from the Ukrainians. First delivery is supposed to be in early 2009 according to the Air Chief Marshal Mehmood in his interview as published by Air Forces Monthly in September.

The Ukrainian VVS is slimming down and selling off excess inventory at bargain prices, but the Pakistanis must think they will have access to sufficient Il-76/78 spares via the PLAAF to take the type on to their order of battle.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby vavinash » 26 Oct 2008 05:07

Very simple solution : Ks-172 or R-37

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 26 Oct 2008 10:45

Johann wrote:I dont think this has been posted here, but the PAF has bought four Il-78 tankers from the Ukrainians. First delivery is supposed to be in early 2009 according to the Air Chief Marshal Mehmood in his interview as published by Air Forces Monthly in September.

The Ukrainian VVS is slimming down and selling off excess inventory at bargain prices, but the Pakistanis must think they will have access to sufficient Il-76/78 spares via the PLAAF to take the type on to their order of battle.

Who financed this since the Pakis are basically paupered?

I was hoping that when the news/rumour of the Il-78 acquisition came out first time last year that it was just a Paki dream but alas!!! :cry:

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 26 Oct 2008 10:56

KiranM wrote:Just out of curiosity, why do we compare Pak ASW capability with our ASW capability? Shouldnt we be comparing the counter system? With respect to this we should be evaluating Indian submarines IMVHO.
I have noticed this on other occasions as well. We tend to compare Pak/ China system A with our system A, when we should be comparing with our system B that will actually be engaging the system A of Pak/ China. Just my 2 cents.

1)I dont know much about our submarines and I guess most nations guard their sub capabilities zealously, so its difficult for me to evaluate our subs against any other ASW system.
2) It is not known which system(s) unkil will put into the scrapboat. So I cant evaluate any other system against this one as well.
So there isnt going to be much comparison.
Last but not the least is that I have no idea about these systems to compare them, so maybe some guru can comply with your request. The point I was suggesting was that even this single platform wont be serving for long.
That said, I think this is the only decent ASW surface platform that PN will have. I dont think the chinese have provided them with any of them.
I can be wrong here though.
The point I was making was that the difference between IN and PN is slightly lesser the difference between SUAR Co and ISRO, but is still drastic.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JaiS » 27 Oct 2008 19:06

Rear Admiral Asif Sandila takes over as Fleet Commander

KARACHI, Oct 21 (APP): Rear Admiral Mohammad Asif Sandila has taken over the charge of Commander Pakistan Fleet. An ISPR (Navy) press release here on Tuesday said that as Fleet Commander, Rear Asif Sandila would exercise full operational and administrative control over all Fleet Units comprising Destroyers, Submarines, Missile Boats and Naval Air Arm besides other supporting establishments.
It said that Rear Admiral Asif Sandila was commissioned in the Operations Branch of Pakistan Navy in June 1975. He has rich experience of various Command and Staff appointments. His important operational appointments include Fleet Operation Officer to Commander Pakistan Fleet, Command of a Destroyer, Commander 25th Destroyer Squadron and Deputy Chief of Naval Staff (Operations).

Rear Admiral Asif Sandila has also served as Director Project Plans, Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Plans), Deputy Chief of Naval Staff (Projects) and Director General Maritime Security Agency.

He is a recipient of Sitara-i-Imtiaz (Military) and French Medal for rescue of 30 French nationals in Maldives during Tsunami in December 2006.

Before taking over as Commander Pakistan Fleet, he was serving as Deputy Chief of Naval Staff (Operations).

The change of Command Ceremony was held at Pakistan Navy Dockyard Tuesday morning where the outgoing Commander Pakistan Fleet Rear Admiral Shahid Iqbal formally handed over the command to the newly appointed Fleet Commander.

Rear Admiral Shahid Iqbal has been appointed as Deputy Chief of Naval Staff (Training and Personnel).

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Sontu » 28 Oct 2008 00:53

kit wrote:http://www.spacemart.com/reports/China_To_Deliver_Telecom_Satellite_To_Pakistan_999.html

China To Deliver Telecom Satellite To Pakistan


I really doubt that it will be a Telecom satelite ..instead it should be something like IRS..remote sensing kinda satelite aka PAK eye in the space. If it's a really a Telecom satelite it will be stationed at Geo-synchronous/high orbit else it should be put into a lower earth orbital..any body has any further info on this ?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby vavinash » 28 Oct 2008 02:49

They need a replacement sat for PAKSAT-1. Since they don't have the capability to build or send one into space it will be done by china. Without this satellite they will loose their only orbital slot under ITU. Any idea what happene to the satellite nigeria bought? Is it still functional?
Last edited by vavinash on 28 Oct 2008 02:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Lalmohan » 28 Oct 2008 02:49

it could be a dedicated chinese comms satellite placed in pakistan's geo stationary slot (purchased at handsome rates from rentier state #1). only that china may be the main user - for its IOR blue water fleet and its karakorum to gwadar land route. the paks get a spare transponder to beam goatp*rn to the troops when required

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JaiS » 30 Oct 2008 01:05

Work on new GHQ halted

ISLAMABAD, Oct 28: The army announced on Tuesday it had halted construction of a new General Headquarters (GHQ) in Islamabad because of the economic crisis faced by the country.

The Rs60 billion project was inaugurated by former president and army chief Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf in Sept 2004, but the actual work began in 2007. Political parties, including the Pakistan People’s Party and Pakistan Muslim League-N, have criticised the project and called it a Pentagon-style military headquarters.

Official sources said that about 10 per cent work on the Defence Complex Islamabad had already been completed. The project is planned to be completed in three phases.

In the first two phases, the Pakistan Navy and Pakistan Air Force have already shifted to the new site, while the ministry of defence, Joint Staff Headquarters and General Headquarters are to shift in the last phase.

The sources said that about 2,500 acres of land had been acquired for the project. The GHQ will be built on 99 acres and 20 acres each are reserved for the defence ministry and Joint Staff Headquarters. Office complexes for naval and air headquarters covered about 30 and 40 acres, respectively.

They ( the sources) said former prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had decided to shift the GHQ to Islamabad at a cabinet meeting on March 29, 1972. The shifting was first discussed after the 1965 India-Pakistan war to establish proper communication between the three services.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 31 Oct 2008 19:10

JaiS wrote:Official sources said that about 10 per cent work :lol: on the Defence Complex Islamabad had already been completed. The project is planned to be completed in three phases.

Its a show, He is trying to show they are not doing unnecessary expenditure. The work will go on, although at a slower pace and when he comes to power finished shortly without any advertisements of the work resuming.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 31 Oct 2008 19:16

Crucial battle on Pakistan's frontline-BBC
We arrive in the town of Loi Sam, now in ruins. Militants here were targeted by the air force and artillery, followed by a ground offensive that lasted five days.Entering the combat zone, we drive past mile after mile of flattened buildings, crops and trees, razed to prevent ambushes.
Even still, soldiers are on high alert, watchful for possible attacks.
They race down the road at top speed, firing occasional rounds from the guns mounted on the backs of their vehicles. Cobra attack helicopters circle overhead.

Civilians fled long ago - hundreds of thousands have been displaced by the fighting.

Already a bulldozer has begun clearing away the blasted shells of buildings.

"You have to either occupy or remove the structures," says one soldier, "otherwise the militants will return to them once we've left."
Even as dusk falls artillery guns continue to pound militant positions

Like other army officers, Maj Gen Tariq Khan criticises unilateral US air strikes on suspected insurgent targets as deeply counter productive.

So basically it means that if US does airstrikes it is counter-productive, while if the PA comes and flattens villages after villages, it produces results and lasting peace.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 03 Nov 2008 22:26

Update from strategy page
Most Indian Moslems are loyal citizens, and well aware that Moslems in neighboring states are worse off, politically and economically, than the Moslems of India. But Islamic radicalism appeals to the young and poor, and many seek to fight for the establishment of an Islamic religious dictatorship in India.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JaiS » 03 Nov 2008 23:05

Building of second Frigate for PN starts in China

ISLAMABAD, Nov 1 (APP): The building of the second Frigate F22P for Pakistan Navy was successfully started at Hudong Zhonghua Shipyard, Shanghai. According to a press release by Pakistan Navy here on Saturday, the building of the frigate was launched Friday where Consul General of Pakistan Zafaruddin Mahmood was chief guest. The launching ceremony was also attended by officers of Pakistan Navy and officials of Chinese PLA Navy.

The ship will be named PNS Shamsheer when it joins the Pakistan Navy Fleet in January 2010.

In October 2005, Ministry of Defence Production had signed a contract with China Shipbuilding and Trading Company (CSTC) for construction of four F22P frigates for Pakistan Navy with Transfer of Technology (TOT). Three ships are to be built in China whereas the fourth ship will be constructed at Karachi shipyard.

Currently, the first ship (to be named PNS ZULFIQUAR) is under trials and due to be delivered to Pakistan Navy by end July 2009. Construction of third Ship (to be named PNS SAIF ) is also progressing at a fast pace. The keel laying of third ship is scheduled on 4 November 2008.

The F22P frigates are equipped with state of the art weaponry and sensors. The construction project is to be completed by 2013. Addition of these ships will strengthen the PN fleet with much needed advancement and prowess.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JaiS » 03 Nov 2008 23:07

No specific allocations made for new GHQ project in budget

ISLAMABAD: There was no special budgetary allocation for the phased construction of the new General Headquarters (GHQ) here which has now been frozen because of the economic crisis being faced by the country, a senior official said on Friday.

“The funds to be spent on the construction during the ongoing financial year were to be taken from the overall defence allocation,” the official told The News. An amount of Rs 25.73 billion was earmarked for civil works in the defence budget for the year 2008-09. “No segregation of funds was done, showing how much of them were to be utilised on the construction of the GHQ in Sector E-10 and other civil works undertaken by the armed forces,” the official said.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 04 Nov 2008 20:15

[ Edited ]
Last edited by JaiS on 04 Nov 2008 21:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post moved to TSP thread in strat forum


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