Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:14

Sunil wrote: Source(http://www.ipcs.org/projects/mil-data/mil-pak.htm) Credibility(Positive).

PARAMILITARY FORCES
National Guard Janbaz Force,
Mujahid Force,
National Cadet Corps,
Women Guards 185000
Frontier Corps ( Ministry of Interior )
With 45 UR-416 APC
35,000 Pakistan Rangers ( Ministry of Interior )
11 Regiments ( 40 Battalions ) and 1 Independent armoured car squadron
35,000 Maritime Security Agency
1 Alamgir ( US Gearing ) destroyer
4 Barahat patrol craft
2 Chinese Shanghai patrol craft
2,000 Coast Guard
23 Patrol craft and boats

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:15

Sunil wrote: Source (http://www.ipcs.org/projects/mil-data/mil-pak.htm) Credibility (Positive)

(material appears old)Organisation :
Corps HQ
9 Armoured Divisions
2 Infantry Divisions
19 Artillery Divisions
1 Independent Armoured Bridgades
7 Independent Mechanical Infantry Brigades
6 Engineer Brigades
7 AD Command with 3 AD Groups,
8 AD Brig. 1Artillery Brigades
9 Armoured Recce Regiment
3 Special forces Group of 3 Battalions
1 Aviation Squadrons 17

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:15

Sunil wrote: Source After sitting at yale liby and trawling painfully through the last 20/so days of The Dawn. Credibility(Positive)
8 Nov. (Pg 7)
Lt. Gen Agha Jehangir Ali Khan CC(Gujranwala) was the chief guest at the passing out parade of the Fixed Wing Pilot Course at Army Aviation Base at Gujranwala , 35 Pilots completed the course.

8th Nov Page 10.
Federal Government Appoints Shariq Hasib as Joint Dir. IB (Quetta) Maj Gen. Mujtaba Hassan Shah DG PP&A (what is PP&A?)

Oct 15 pg 22
Maj gen. Rafiullah Niazi took over as new chief IB oct 18. Multan & Bhawalpur corps commanders asked to deal with cotton procurement problems.

Oct 16. pg 11
Photograph Corps Commanders. (a few days later i seem to have missed writing the date between oct 16 andd 31)

pg 5, Karachi at Jinnahs grave, photograpgh containing Lt. Gen. Muzaffar Hussaini on COAS' left, grey hair. dark glasses and wings on his chest.

Oct 31
GOC 5 Corps Maj Gen Malik Iftekhar Khan attended the 10 passing out parade of elite forces at the Anti-terrorist training school as Razaqabad(so far the school has 4800 graduates .. guys please no jokes about this.)

Oct 31
Rawalpindi, GHQ indonesian team meets Maj Gen. Shujaat Ali Khan (DG Weapons and Equipment) and Maj. Gen Khalid Naeem (DG Doctrine and Evaluation)

Nov 2 pg 10.
Tarar visits NLI base in Gilgit, received by Corps Commander Lt. Gen Janshed Gulzar things that come to mind
1)Is Lt. Gen Janshed Gulzar, Mahmood Ahmed's replacement at Pindi?
2)Why hasn't the Corps Commander Bhawalpur been in the news? He is almost invisible, the cotton pricing is the only time his name appears(he was instructed to put army officers of the rank of Major and Captain into the cotton industry and ensure proper working), there too subsequent to that one item, i found several news items on this cotton pricing problem but none made a mention of Army involvement, i am begining to feel that CC bhawalpur has not really done anything about this cotton thing.
3)From several articles it appears that Lt. Gen Saeed-uz-Zafar CC 11 Corps Peshawar is the Number II man in Pakistan, he held the helm when COAS was out making friends with turkey etc.. he has NOT been made acting CE in these cases but I dont think there is information to support further speculation. here is a refresher from ipcs.org.
Excerpts of the conversation between CGS Aziz and COAS during the Kargil War. (http://www.ipcs.org/documents/1999/2-apr-jul.htm)***
Lt Gen Aziz: From here we had gone-Choudhary Zafar Saheb ( Saeeduz Zafar CC 11 Corps) Mehmood (CC 10 Corps Pindi) , myself and Tauqir (Currently CC 1 Corps Mangla). Because before going, Tauqir had spoken with his counterpart. We carried that tape with us. ***..
Lt Gen Aziz: So, no one was in a particularly disturbed frame of mind.
Gen Musharraf: Even your seat man?
Lt Gen Aziz: Yes, he was disturbed. Also, Malik Saheb was disturbed, as they had been even earlier. Those two's views were that the status quo and the present position of Gen Hassan no change should be recommended in that. But he was also saying that any escalation after that should be regulated as there may be the danger of war. On this logic, we gave the suggestion that there was no such fear as the scruff (tooti) of their (militants) neck is in our hands, whenever you want, we could regulate it.
Ch. Zafar Saheb (Saeeduz Zafar) coped very well. He gave a very good presentation of our viewpoint.He said we had briefed the PM earlier and given an assessment. After this, we played the tape of Tauqir. Then he said that what we are seeing, that was our assessment, and those very stages of the military situation were being seen, which it would not be a problem for us to handle. Rest, it was for your guidance how to deal with the political and diplomatic aspects. We told him there is no reason of alarm and panic.
Then he said that when I came to know 7 days back, when Corps Commanders were told. The entire reason for the success of this operation was this total secrecy. Our experience was that our earlier efforts failed because of lack of secrecy. So, the top priority is to accord confidentiality, to ensure our success. We should respect this and the advantage we have from this would give us a handle.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:15

Badar wrote: Hi,Qunicy, Sunil, this is what I have summed from the two threads. Does it tally?
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/badar/PACorps.html
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/badar/IACorps.html

Rupak wrote: Badar Your list seems to be missing XXI Corps. This is the third strike formation with 33 Armd Div and 54 Div as core formations.Note also that XIV Coprs will control 8 Mtn Div and 3 Div. 8 Div may have set an IA record. At one point last year HQ 8 Div controlled 12 Brigades.
Rupak

Sunil wrote: Q.Quincy and Badar,I am going to try to organise the information that we do have so far. I am drawing on Badars list and will build up from there. Q.Quincy i have no clue why the Denver U site is inaccessible from your computer, i seem to be able to access it fine.

Shiv I have the thread backed up, would appreciate if it could be archived a t a later stage.and Guys please proofread the thing and pointout mistakes immediately. Q. Quincy, Badar and anyone else who is on this frequency.. I cant find information on Arty, Mech Inf, and Armoured Corps of PA,esp details of how they liase and what exactly is the structure of armoured units eg a tank brigade..

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:49

Sunil wrote: PA OrBat
General Information and Notes Pakistan Army has a force strength of 550,000 troops plus around 100000 reserves. The command structure has a Principal Staff Officers Committee(PSOC) headed by the Chief of Army Staff(COAS), with four other general officers. The PA General Headquarters (GHQ) (Rawalpindi) operates under the PSOC. Further organisation is in the form of Arms and Services.

The arms are infantry, artillery, armor, engineers, and communications. The services include various components, such as the ordnance corps; maintenance and repair corps; electrical and mechanical engineer corps; education corps;military police corps; and the remount, veterinary, and farm corps.A corps is a scaled-down version of the GHQ, it consists of a Corps Commander(a Lt. General) and several other General Officers Commanding (GOC)(Maj. General). A corps usually consists of 2-3 Divisions. All plains corps have an Independent Tank Brigade.

All Corps have an Independent Infantry Brigade. There are nine Corps Headquarters and the total resources of the PA are distributed therein. List of Corps Formations I Corps (Mangla) II Corps (Multan) IV Corps (Lahore) V Corps (Karachi) X Corps (Rawalpindi) XI Corps (Peshawar) XII Corps (Quetta) XXX Corps (Gujranwala)XXXI Corps (Bahawalpur)

Notes Regarding Formations
(1)Infantry divisions:- As the major ground force combat formation, it usually consisted of infantry, artillery, engineers, and communications units in addition to the supply and service support required for sustained independent action. Three infantry brigades usually comprised the primary organic combat units of an infantry division; armored units would be attached depending on the mission of the division and the terrain in which it operated.

(2)Present Estimates (available from open media sources) of PA Division Level and Brigade Level Strength.2 Armoured Divisions 19 Infantry Divisions 1 Artillery Divisions 7 Independent Armoured Bridgades 6 Independent Mechanical Infantry Brigades 7 Engineer Brigades 1 AD Command with 3 AD Groups, 8 AD Brig. 9 Artillery Brigades 3 Armoured Recce Regiment 1 Special forces Group of 3 Battalions 17 Aviation Squadrons

(3) PA Regiments :- The bulk of the Pakistan Army is in three regimental HQs, Punjab Regt, Baluch Regt., Frontier Force Regt. their regiments tend to have a huge number of battalions, 40-50 each. There is the AK Regiment with about 35+ battalion and the Sindh Regiment with perhaps 20+. These formations have been reorganised several times in the post independence period.Presently available Infantry regiment details are as follows.
(a)The Punjab Regiment (19, 20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30, 31, 33, 40, 62, 66, 76, 82)
(b)The Baluch Regiment (89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 124, 126, 127, 129, 130)
(c)The Frontier Force Regiment (51, 52, 53, 55, 56, 58, 59)
(d)The Azad Kashmir Regiment (Raised 1971)Brigades raised under this regiment have 4 Battalions as opposed to the usual three.
(e)The Sind Regiment (Raised 1980)
(f)The Special Service Group (Raised 1959)

(4)FCNA :-In addition to 9 Corps, there is also a Force Commander Northern Areas, this is a regular military command with its HQ at Gilgit, with normally four army brigades assigned. For several reasons has never been designated as a division flag.It operates under the supervision of X Corps(Rawalpindi).

(5) Paramilitary Formations :- There exist a large number of paramilitary formations which are not funded by the Pakistani Defence Ministry, these formations often labelled as civil-armed forces, Scouts or Militias are often used in several internal security related roles, their command, training and control however is retained by the regular PA. Historically most of these paramilitary forces were irregular units, which have now been `regularised'.

(6)The Special Service Group Regiment:- This unit was raised in 1959, it was formed out of the 19 Bn of the Baluch Regiment to form a commando and parachute force. It has since evolved a considerable number of multi-role capabilities and was used extensively in operations in the Kashmir theatre in '65 and '71 conflicts. (7)Army AviationThis is a small army formation based at Gujranwala.

It has at its disposal the following aircraft.
(a) Commander 840 (Survey Aircraft)
(1)(b) Cessna 421 (Liaison Aircrafts)
(1)(c) Commander 690(Liaison Aircraft)

(2)(d) Mashshag (Liaison Aircraft)(80)
(e) F- 27(Liaison Aircraft)(2)
(f) O- 1E(Observation Aircraft)(40)
(g) Mashshag(Observation Aircraft)(50)
(h) AH - 1F (TOW )Helicopter (Attack))(20)
(i) Bell 47G (Helicopter (Transport))(12)
(j) Bell 205 (Helicopter (Transport))(7)
(k) Bell 206B (Helicopter (Transport))(10)
(l) Mi- 8 (Helicopter (Transport))(16)
(m) IAR / SA-31 5B (Helicopter(Transport))(6)
(n) IAR / SA-316(Helicopter(Transport))(23)
(o) SA-330 (Helicopter (Transport))(35)
(p) UH-1H (Helicopter (Transport))(5)
(q) Mi-17 (Helicopter (Transport))(9)

Artillery Regiments Present equipment estimates indicate the following numbers.

Towed Artillery
(a) 85 mm T- 56 Chinese (20)
(b) 105 mm M- 101 (300)
(c) 105 mm M- 56 pack (50)
(d) 122 mm T- 60 Chinese (200)
(e) 122 mm T-54 Chinese (400)
(f) 130 mm T-59-1 Chinese (200)
(g) 155 mm M-59 (30)
(h) 155 mm M- 114 (60)
(i) 155 mm M- 198 (100)
(j) 203 mm M- 115 (26)

Self Propelled Artillery
(a) 105 mm M-7 (50)
(b) 155 mm M- 109 A-2 (150)
(c) 203 mm M- 110 A-2 (40)

Multiple Rocket Launchers :
(a) 122 mm Azar (T- 83 Chinese ) (45)

Mortars
(a) 81 mm(500)
(b) 120 mm AM- 50, M- 61 (225)

Surface to Surface Missiles
(a) Hatf-1,2 (18)
(b) Shaheen (10)

Armoured Regiments and Mechanised Infantry Present equipment estimates indicate the following numbers.

Main Battle Tanks : ( 2,050 + )
(a) M- 47 (120)
(b) M- 48A5 (280)
(c)T- 54 / 55 (50)
(d)T- 59 Chinese (1200)
(e)T- 69 Chinese (200)
(f)T- 85 Chinese (200)
(g)MBT Khalid
(h)T-90 (Ukraine')

APCs:
(a) M- 113 (850)
(b) BTR- 70 (169)

(11)Infantry weapons
Anti Guided Tank Weapons
(a) Cobra, TOW ( including 24 on M-190 SP ) Green Arrow ( Chinese Red Arrow ) (total 800)

Rocket Launchers
(a) 89 mm M-20-3.5 in

Recoiless Guns
(a) 75 mm T- 52
(b) 106 mm M- 40A1

(12)Air Defence Regiments Present equipment estimates indicate the following numbers.

AD Guns
(a) 14.5 mm
(b) 35 mm GDF- 002 (200)
(c) 37 mm T-55 / 56 Chinese
(d) 40 mm M1
(e) 40 mm L / 60 (100)
(f) 57 mm T-59 Chinese

Surface To Air Missiles
(a)Stinger, Redeye, RBS-70 (350)
(b)Anza Mk 1 / 2 (500)
(c)HQ-2 (Chinese SA-2)

STRUCTURE
COAS Gen. Pervez Musharraf
Defence Secy. (lt Gen (R) Nasim Rana)
Establishment secy, (Maj. Gen Anis Bajwa)
ISPR Brig. Rashid Quershi (DGISPR) ISI
Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed(DGISI)Ehtesab Cell (now NAB)
( Lt Gen.Amjad Hussain) IB
Maj gen. Rafiullah Niazi (DGIB)

Principle Staff Officers Committee

(a) CGS (Lt Gen Mohammmed Aziz)

General HQ (Rawalpindi)
(a.1) Vice CGS
(a.2) DGMO (Major-General Shahid Aziz)
(a.3) DG Weapons and Equipment (Maj Gen. Shujaat Ali Khan)
(a.4) DG Armoured Corps (Maj. Gen Rehmat)
(a.5) DG Air Defence Command
(a.6) DG Doctrine and Evaluation (Maj. Gen Khalid Naeem )
(a.6) DG Air Defence Command ( Maj. Gen.Iftikhar Hussain Shah )
(a.7) DG Perspective Planning and Army Education (Maj Gen. Mujtaba Hassan Shah)
Lt. Gen. Salahuddin TirmiziLt
Gen. Salim Haidar,

(b) Adjutant General
(c) Quarter Master General Lt. Gen. Mohammad Akram
(d) Master General Ordnance

CORPS ANC CORPS COMMANDERS
(1) Mangla (1st Corps)(North Strike,Army Reserve North)
Corps Commander (Lt. Gen. Tauqir Zia)
Recent list of officers

Geographic Location and Significance

Backs up the XXX Corps (Gujranwala)
Corps Assets 6 Armoured 17 Division ' Division ' Indp Inf Bde

(2) Multan (2nd Corps)(South Strike,Army Reserve South)Corps Commander (Lt Gen. Yousuf Khan)

Geographic Location and SignificanceCorps Assets 1 Armoured Div 37 Division ' Indp Inf Bde (3) Lahore (4th Corps)

Corps Commander (Lt Gen. Khalid Maqbool)

(General Safdar Butt)

(Garrison Commander Major General Tariq Majid)

(GOC. Maj. Gen. Javaid Ahmed)

Geographic Location and SignificanceCorps Assets 10 Division 11 Division 40 Division ' Indp Inf Bde(4) Karachi (5th Corps)

Corps Commander (Lt Gen. Muzaffar H Usmani) (major Zaffar-Ullah Khan Wazir)(Lt. Col Atiq-uz-Zaman Kiyani, protocol officer)

Geographic Location and SignificanceCorps Assets 18 Division ' Division ' Indp Inf Bde (5) Rawalpindi (10th corps)

Corps Commander
(Lt. Gen Janshed Gulzar)
(111 Brigade Brigadier Gen. Salahuddin)
(Maj Gen Arif Hassan)
(Maj Gen Farooq Khan,
Brig Maqbool,
Brig Abdul Hadi
and Lt Col Kausar)

Geographic Location and Significance
X Corps is responsible for Kashmir (Murree to Siachin).

In theory mechanized forces could be employed between Naushera and Akhnur; in practice they have been used at Akhnur and have come from plains corps.

Corps Assets
12 Division (NW Kashmir, 6 Bde's)
19 Division (Jhelum, 3 Bde's)
23 Division (Akhnur, 4 Bde's)
111 Indp Inf Bde

(Corps Reserve)
(Brig. Gen. Salahuddin)

Force Commander Northern Areas (Gilgit Baltistan)
(Maj Gen. Javed Hasan)
(NLI- Saifullah Bn. Lieutenant Colonel Salim Mahmood Khan.)
NLI is actually it is composed of high quality mountain troops who are all regulars recruited from Gilgit, Skardu, Baltistan etc areas. It is funded by the Pakistani Home Ministry, but training, command and control rest with PA.

FCNA has Brigades at Gilgit Astor Skardu Kappalu

(6) Peshawar (11th Corps)(Infantry Strike Corps, Reserve)
Corps Commander
(Lt. Gen. Saeeduz Zafar)

Geographic Location and Significance
Kashmir offensive, this is the Strategic Reserve, it is to exploit any andvances made by X corps and ultimately liberate Kashmir.
Corps Assets
7 Division (Peshwar) 9 Division (Mardan)
Indp Inf Bde
(7) Quetta (12th Corps) (reserve corps)
Corps Commander (Lt. Gen Mushtaq Hussain)
(GOC Major General Shahid Hamid)
(Army Command and Staff College.
Major General Javed Afzal,
Commandant)

Geographic Location and Significance
Corps Assets
16 Division 41 Division
Indp Inf Bde Note : One Bde is detached and deployed between V and XXXI Corps. This might be the strike sector.

(8) Gujranwala (30th Corps)(Defensive Formation)
Corps Commander (Lt. Gen Agha Jehangir Ali Khan)
Geographic Location and Significance defends Ravi and Chenab boundry with India
Corps Assets 8 Division 15 Division ' Indp Inf Bde (9) Bhawalpur (31st Corps) (Defensive Formation)
Corps Commander Geographic Location and Significance Bhawalpur Corps Assets 14 Division 35 Division ' Indp Inf Bde

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:49

Sunil wrote: JayJi,The information so far indicates that the Mangla Corps(I) is a Strategic Reserve. to back up the XXXth at Gujranwala. There is also a town called mangla at the base of the Mangla Dam at the POK, Punjab Border north west of the Pindi-Jhelum highway. http://star.physics.yale.edu/users/sainis/Mangla.gif and There is a town named Mangla(Punjab), which is ~20 miles south west of Sargodha, about ~100 miles east of gujranwala. http://star.physics.yale.edu/users/sainis/ManglaP.gif Which of these is Corps I HQ' [This message has been edited by sunil sainis (edited 21-11-1999).]

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:49

Sunil wrote: Source
The DAWN
http://www.dawn.com/daily/19991121/nat4.htm
Credibility(Positive/Affirmative)
Project inaugurated: Karachi to get 40mgd additional water KARACHI, Nov 20: The additional 40 million gallons of water (mgd) project was inaugurated on Saturday by Sindh Governor Air Marshal Azim Daudpota at a simple ceremony held at the Pipri Filter Plant. With the inauguration of the project, the Karachi city has started getting the additional quantity of water. The Rs100 million project has been completed in a short time of six months under the supervision of the Army's Vth Engineering Corps personnel. Highlighting the project's salient features, the Army's Vth Engineering Corps commander, Brig Asif Ghazali,told the governor that since the only reliable source of water supply to the city was the River Indus, the engineering corps personnel executed the project by utilizing maximum capacity of the conduits of the K-2 project of 100 mgd of water, besides laying a 2.2 kilometre supply pipeline.

HIT
Source
Frontier Post
http://www.frontierpost.com.pk/city.html
Credibility (Positive)Cadets awarded Para-Wing insignia PESHAWAR (APP) - An impressive ceremony was held at Polo ground to award Para Winginsignia to armed forces personnel and cadets of Pakistan Military Academy Kakul , here Saturday. Major General, Asif Duraiz Akhtar, General Officer Commanding was the chief guest. Speaking on the occasion, Major General Asif Duraiz commended the physical fitness of the successful airborne trainees and said that it was no ordinary achievement as they were proud recipient of an award which distinguishes them from their other comrades in arm. He said, the successful completion of this hard core training course bears ample testimony to thehigh professional skills and physical fitness attained by the members of our armed forces. Later, Major General Javed Iqbal, Major General Tahir Mahmood Qazi and Major General Khateer Hassan Khan affixed airborne insignia on the chests of successful trainees.

Commander SSG, Brigadier Amir Faisal Alaviwas also present on the occasion. Later, the men of Special Service Group (SSG) demonstrated a breath taking show of free fall from the height of ten thousand feet, where the spectators were thrilled to see the daring display by these military parachutists. Source From PakMilitary.comCredibility (Infra)A Strike Corp as far as '71 information is concerned consisted of Two to Three Strike Divisions. That is Two infantry and One Armored Division. The infantry divisions are trained much in advance about the objectives they have to achieve, though the exact objective is not specified. This training is extremely rigorous and may come as close to the SSG training as possible. I believe, Pakistan has a Strike Corp located in Mangla. This Corp oprates under great deal of secrecy. Since its areas of operations are the best kep secrets of Pakistan.

Generally, the infantry divisions are stealth divisions like the Seventh Division (The Golden Arrow) of Pakistan. Right up to the last minute, no one knows where it would Strike. In '71 India had no idea, about its movement. However, the Strike force was never used at that time. I believe, the 12 th division is also a strike division and there maybe more. The quality of weaponry is suitable for offensive operation and may include the latest Ukrainian tanks in the armor component(at least I hope!).

During the the "Brass-Tack," excercise of India, while India had massed its troops in Rajastan, thereby threatening, the "chiken-neck," area of Rahim Yar Khan, Pakistan had moved its Strike Corp along Bhawalnagar-Jullunder Axis in a brilliant pincer move. The Indians were caught unawares because Pakistan was begining to threaten East Panjab. The repercussions of this move were felt throughout the Indian Army, many heads were made to roll in the command structure of IA (INDIA TODAY OF THAT TIME CARRIED THIS STORY).

These included several GOCs and Staff-Officers, and the "Indian Napolean," Gen.Sunderji's dream of cutting Pakistan into two was wiped out in one fell swoop. It was one of the biggest intelligence failure in IA history. Coming back to the subject of Strike Corps, during the Zerb-e-Momin Excercise, the Beg Doctrine of OFFENSIVE-DEFENSE was evolved. and this includes the use of an Offensive Strike Corp and a Defensive Support Corp. During this exercise, the Force representing the Pakistan Army was pitched against an overwhelming opposing force representing India (I believe they were given names like the Blueland force etc), the Pakistani Force through using the Offensive defense doctrine overwhelmed the Opposing force. Since, then the army has re-organized and the lessons learnt in this excercise are still being applied to force management.

It also was a co-ordinated excercise, where the Air force played a vital role. Therefore, the Pakistani Corps are now designated for Offensive (Strike Corp) and Defensive role. Details of the current situation I am not privy to.Also from the same site. Credibility (Infra-Positive)SSG Special Services Group In 1953-54 the Pakistan Army raised an elite commando formation with US Army assistance. To disguise its true mission the new unit was simply designated 10 Bn. of The Baluch RegimentThe battalion was posted to a new headquaters at Cherat near Attock City.In march 1964 a Mobile Training Teamfrom the US Army Special Forces Group (Airborne)went to Pakistan to set up a new airborne school at Peshawar for 19 Baluch. The school included basic and jumpmaster courses.

All memebers of 19 Baluch were airborne-qualified. The training team also included four riggers, who helped train Pakistani counterparts.By this time 19 baluch was already considered the SSG (Special Services Group)which was divided into 24 companies. Each company had specialization units, specialized in desert, mountain, ranger, and underwater warfare. The desert companies participated in training excercises with US Army Special Forces Mobile Training Teamin late 1964. The scuba company in karachi was renowned for its tough physical training.In 1970 an anti-terrorist role was added. This mission was given to the Musa Company , an independent formation within SSG. The name was given after the name of Prophet Musa (Moses). The company was originally formed in 1970 as a combat diver unit.

In 1980 however each company was given a diver unit. After the Musa company was converted to an anti-terrorist unit, it received training by British SASadvisors in Cherat during mid-1981.In 1986 SSG began a large-scale basic training programme for Sri Lankan Paramilitary militia forces. Commando and airborne training was given to members of the Sri lankan Commando Regiment.SSG units have also been seconded in covert operation in Afghanist during Afghan war, as air marshals on passanger airline and as VIP security. At present, the SSG maintains its headquaters at Cherat and runs the Airborne School at Peshawar. Two SSg batalios are normally rotated through Cherat with a third battalion divided between the border and other strategic locations such as the Terbella Dam and nuclear research fascilities. Each SSg battalion numbers 700 men in four companies. Each company is split into platoons and further sub-divided into 10 men teams. Battalions are commanded by Lieutenant Colonels, the group is currently run by a ColonelTraining SSG officers must have at least two years of prior military experience and volunteer from other formations for three-year assignments with the SSG; NCO and enlisted men volunteer from other formations to serve permanently in the SSG.

All tainees must participate in an eight-month SSG course at Cherta.The SSG course course emphasizes tough physical conditioning. Included is a 36-mile march in 12 hours, a gruelling requirement that was first institutionalized by 19 Baluch. They are also required to rn 5 miles in 40 minutes with full gear. Following the SSG course, trainees must volunteer for Airborne School. The course last four weeks, with wings awarded after seven (five day, two night) jumps. none SSG airborne students only have to complete a the five day jump.many in SSG school are selected for additional specialist tarining. A HALO course is given at Peshawar with a 'skydiver' tab awarded after 5 freefall jumps. A "Mountain Warfare"qualification badge is given after completing a course at the Mountain Warfare Schoolin Abbotabad; and a "Combat Diver"badge is awarded awarded for the course held by the Naval Special Services Group SSGNat Karachi.

three classes of combat swimmers were recognized: 1st class to those complating an 18-mile swim; 2nd class to those finishing a 12-mile swim; and 3rd class for a 6-mile swim. SSG regularly sends students to the US for special warfare and airborne training. later on due to Siachen crisis, a Snow and High Altitude Warefare Schoolwas also established

SSG Weapons and Uniforms While they were designated 19 baluch, the pakistani special forces were distinguished by a green beret with the Baluch Regt. beret insignia on a maroon flash. A 'Baluch' tab, black with a maroon background, went on left shoulder. Combat uniforms were Khaki. The SSg dropped the green beret in favour of a maroon baret. A silver metal SSG beret is worn in a light blue felt square. A bullion SSG para wing with a black cloth background is worn on the left chest. A red cloth version is worn by master parachitist who has atleast 50 jumps. SSG "Riggers" wear a wing with the English word 'Rigger' stiched across the wing.

A distinctive SSG badge featuring a dagger framed by lightening bolts, used since 1964 by members of 19 Baluch goes on the left shoulder; qualification tabs and badges such as Skydiver, SCUBA, or Mountain Warefare go on the right shoulder. A silver metal SSG insignia is occasionally worn on shoulder straps.Navy Special Forces In 1966 the Pakistan Navy created its own commando unit, the Naval Special Services (SSGN). training was initially conducted by SSG in Cherat, Peshawar and Karachi bases. The SSGN currently maintains headquaters in Karachi headed by Pakistan Navy Commander. It has a strength of one company and is assigned to unconventional warfare operations in the coastal regions. In war, the SSGN would make use of the Pakistan Navy's midget submarine fleet. parachute training is conducted by Army SSG.

All other training of SSGN is held at the SSGN training center, PNS Iqbalin Karachi. Some students are sent to US for specialist courses. Since 1970s the SSGN holds joint exercises with the US Navy SEALSand the Imperial Iranian Navy. SSGN is distinguished by a dark blue beret with three versions of the 'fouled anchor' Navy badge for officers, NCOs and enlisted men. A metal SSGN qualification badge featuring a vertical dagger superimposed over a midget submarine is worn over the left pocket on dress uniforms. Parachute wings are worn over the right pocketAnd Finally a list of the possible squadron level deplayments of the Aviation units.

Credibility (Infra)
UNIT EQUIP. BASENo. 2 Sqn. (Composite)
Bell UH-1, Cessna O-1 Lahore MFI-17 MashakNo. 3 Sqn. (Composite) Cessna O-1, MFI-17 MashakNo. 4 Sqn. Mil Mi 8 DhamialNo. 4 Sqn. Mil Mi 8 Rahwali(Det.) No. 4 Sqn. Mil Mi 8 Gilgit(Det.)No. 5 Sqn. Alouette III Dhamial No. 6 Sqn. Bell UH-1H, Dhamial(ERC) AB-205A-1 No. 7 Sqn. Cessna-O1, Shar-e-Faisal(Composite) MFI-17 Mashak No. 8 Sqn. Lama DhamialNo. 8 Sqn. Lama Skardu (Det.) No. 9 Sqn. Alouette III Peshawar(Composite) MFI-17 Mashak Cessna O-1 No. 13 Sqn. MFI-17 Mashak, Dhamial(Composite) Cessna O-1 No. 21 Sqn. Puma, Bell UH-1H MultanNo. 25 Sqn. PumaNo. 31 Sqn. Bell Ah-1S, 206 Multan No. 32 Sqn. Bell Ah-1S, 206 MultanArmy Aviation Bell OH-13, GujranwalaSchool MFI-17 Mashak VIP Flight cessna 421 Dhamial Rockwell Turbo Commander Air Force MFI-17 MashakAcademy Army Army Aviation ' DhamialEngineering School 503 Workshop Emergency Relief Cell Bell 205 Dhamial Frontier Corps Bell 206 DhamialCourtesy of: World Air Power Journal[This message has been edited by sunil sainis (edited 21-11-1999).]

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:50

Sunil wrote: Source
The DAWN
http://www.dawn.com/daily/19991121/nat4.htm
Credibility(Positive/Affirmative)
Project inaugurated: Karachi to get 40mgd additional water KARACHI, Nov 20: The additional 40 million gallons of water (mgd) project was inaugurated on Saturday by Sindh Governor Air Marshal Azim Daudpota at a simple ceremony held at the Pipri Filter Plant. With the inauguration of the project, the Karachi city has started getting the additional quantity of water. The Rs100 million project has been completed in a short time of six months under the supervision of the Army's Vth Engineering Corps personnel. Highlighting the project's salient features, the Army's Vth Engineering Corps commander, Brig Asif Ghazali,told the governor that since the only reliable source of water supply to the city was the River Indus, the engineering corps personnel executed the project by utilizing maximum capacity of the conduits of the K-2 project of 100 mgd of water, besides laying a 2.2 kilometre supply pipeline.

HIT
Source
Frontier Post
http://www.frontierpost.com.pk/city.html
Credibility (Positive)Cadets awarded Para-Wing insignia PESHAWAR (APP) - An impressive ceremony was held at Polo ground to award Para Winginsignia to armed forces personnel and cadets of Pakistan Military Academy Kakul , here Saturday. Major General, Asif Duraiz Akhtar, General Officer Commanding was the chief guest. Speaking on the occasion, Major General Asif Duraiz commended the physical fitness of the successful airborne trainees and said that it was no ordinary achievement as they were proud recipient of an award which distinguishes them from their other comrades in arm. He said, the successful completion of this hard core training course bears ample testimony to thehigh professional skills and physical fitness attained by the members of our armed forces. Later, Major General Javed Iqbal, Major General Tahir Mahmood Qazi and Major General Khateer Hassan Khan affixed airborne insignia on the chests of successful trainees.

Commander SSG, Brigadier Amir Faisal Alaviwas also present on the occasion. Later, the men of Special Service Group (SSG) demonstrated a breath taking show of free fall from the height of ten thousand feet, where the spectators were thrilled to see the daring display by these military parachutists. Source From PakMilitary.comCredibility (Infra)A Strike Corp as far as '71 information is concerned consisted of Two to Three Strike Divisions. That is Two infantry and One Armored Division. The infantry divisions are trained much in advance about the objectives they have to achieve, though the exact objective is not specified. This training is extremely rigorous and may come as close to the SSG training as possible. I believe, Pakistan has a Strike Corp located in Mangla. This Corp oprates under great deal of secrecy. Since its areas of operations are the best kep secrets of Pakistan.

Generally, the infantry divisions are stealth divisions like the Seventh Division (The Golden Arrow) of Pakistan. Right up to the last minute, no one knows where it would Strike. In '71 India had no idea, about its movement. However, the Strike force was never used at that time. I believe, the 12 th division is also a strike division and there maybe more. The quality of weaponry is suitable for offensive operation and may include the latest Ukrainian tanks in the armor component(at least I hope!).

During the the "Brass-Tack," excercise of India, while India had massed its troops in Rajastan, thereby threatening, the "chiken-neck," area of Rahim Yar Khan, Pakistan had moved its Strike Corp along Bhawalnagar-Jullunder Axis in a brilliant pincer move. The Indians were caught unawares because Pakistan was begining to threaten East Panjab. The repercussions of this move were felt throughout the Indian Army, many heads were made to roll in the command structure of IA (INDIA TODAY OF THAT TIME CARRIED THIS STORY).

These included several GOCs and Staff-Officers, and the "Indian Napolean," Gen.Sunderji's dream of cutting Pakistan into two was wiped out in one fell swoop. It was one of the biggest intelligence failure in IA history. Coming back to the subject of Strike Corps, during the Zerb-e-Momin Excercise, the Beg Doctrine of OFFENSIVE-DEFENSE was evolved. and this includes the use of an Offensive Strike Corp and a Defensive Support Corp. During this exercise, the Force representing the Pakistan Army was pitched against an overwhelming opposing force representing India (I believe they were given names like the Blueland force etc), the Pakistani Force through using the Offensive defense doctrine overwhelmed the Opposing force. Since, then the army has re-organized and the lessons learnt in this excercise are still being applied to force management.

It also was a co-ordinated excercise, where the Air force played a vital role. Therefore, the Pakistani Corps are now designated for Offensive (Strike Corp) and Defensive role. Details of the current situation I am not privy to.Also from the same site. Credibility (Infra-Positive)SSG Special Services Group In 1953-54 the Pakistan Army raised an elite commando formation with US Army assistance. To disguise its true mission the new unit was simply designated 10 Bn. of The Baluch RegimentThe battalion was posted to a new headquaters at Cherat near Attock City.In march 1964 a Mobile Training Teamfrom the US Army Special Forces Group (Airborne)went to Pakistan to set up a new airborne school at Peshawar for 19 Baluch. The school included basic and jumpmaster courses.

All memebers of 19 Baluch were airborne-qualified. The training team also included four riggers, who helped train Pakistani counterparts.By this time 19 baluch was already considered the SSG (Special Services Group)which was divided into 24 companies. Each company had specialization units, specialized in desert, mountain, ranger, and underwater warfare. The desert companies participated in training excercises with US Army Special Forces Mobile Training Teamin late 1964. The scuba company in karachi was renowned for its tough physical training.In 1970 an anti-terrorist role was added. This mission was given to the Musa Company , an independent formation within SSG. The name was given after the name of Prophet Musa (Moses). The company was originally formed in 1970 as a combat diver unit.

In 1980 however each company was given a diver unit. After the Musa company was converted to an anti-terrorist unit, it received training by British SASadvisors in Cherat during mid-1981.In 1986 SSG began a large-scale basic training programme for Sri Lankan Paramilitary militia forces. Commando and airborne training was given to members of the Sri lankan Commando Regiment.SSG units have also been seconded in covert operation in Afghanist during Afghan war, as air marshals on passanger airline and as VIP security. At present, the SSG maintains its headquaters at Cherat and runs the Airborne School at Peshawar. Two SSg batalios are normally rotated through Cherat with a third battalion divided between the border and other strategic locations such as the Terbella Dam and nuclear research fascilities. Each SSg battalion numbers 700 men in four companies. Each company is split into platoons and further sub-divided into 10 men teams. Battalions are commanded by Lieutenant Colonels, the group is currently run by a ColonelTraining SSG officers must have at least two years of prior military experience and volunteer from other formations for three-year assignments with the SSG; NCO and enlisted men volunteer from other formations to serve permanently in the SSG.

All tainees must participate in an eight-month SSG course at Cherta.The SSG course course emphasizes tough physical conditioning. Included is a 36-mile march in 12 hours, a gruelling requirement that was first institutionalized by 19 Baluch. They are also required to rn 5 miles in 40 minutes with full gear. Following the SSG course, trainees must volunteer for Airborne School. The course last four weeks, with wings awarded after seven (five day, two night) jumps. none SSG airborne students only have to complete a the five day jump.many in SSG school are selected for additional specialist tarining. A HALO course is given at Peshawar with a 'skydiver' tab awarded after 5 freefall jumps. A "Mountain Warfare"qualification badge is given after completing a course at the Mountain Warfare Schoolin Abbotabad; and a "Combat Diver"badge is awarded awarded for the course held by the Naval Special Services Group SSGNat Karachi.

three classes of combat swimmers were recognized: 1st class to those complating an 18-mile swim; 2nd class to those finishing a 12-mile swim; and 3rd class for a 6-mile swim. SSG regularly sends students to the US for special warfare and airborne training. later on due to Siachen crisis, a Snow and High Altitude Warefare Schoolwas also established

SSG Weapons and Uniforms While they were designated 19 baluch, the pakistani special forces were distinguished by a green beret with the Baluch Regt. beret insignia on a maroon flash. A 'Baluch' tab, black with a maroon background, went on left shoulder. Combat uniforms were Khaki. The SSg dropped the green beret in favour of a maroon baret. A silver metal SSG beret is worn in a light blue felt square. A bullion SSG para wing with a black cloth background is worn on the left chest. A red cloth version is worn by master parachitist who has atleast 50 jumps. SSG "Riggers" wear a wing with the English word 'Rigger' stiched across the wing.

A distinctive SSG badge featuring a dagger framed by lightening bolts, used since 1964 by members of 19 Baluch goes on the left shoulder; qualification tabs and badges such as Skydiver, SCUBA, or Mountain Warefare go on the right shoulder. A silver metal SSG insignia is occasionally worn on shoulder straps.Navy Special Forces In 1966 the Pakistan Navy created its own commando unit, the Naval Special Services (SSGN). training was initially conducted by SSG in Cherat, Peshawar and Karachi bases. The SSGN currently maintains headquaters in Karachi headed by Pakistan Navy Commander. It has a strength of one company and is assigned to unconventional warfare operations in the coastal regions. In war, the SSGN would make use of the Pakistan Navy's midget submarine fleet. parachute training is conducted by Army SSG.

All other training of SSGN is held at the SSGN training center, PNS Iqbalin Karachi. Some students are sent to US for specialist courses. Since 1970s the SSGN holds joint exercises with the US Navy SEALSand the Imperial Iranian Navy. SSGN is distinguished by a dark blue beret with three versions of the 'fouled anchor' Navy badge for officers, NCOs and enlisted men. A metal SSGN qualification badge featuring a vertical dagger superimposed over a midget submarine is worn over the left pocket on dress uniforms. Parachute wings are worn over the right pocketAnd Finally a list of the possible squadron level deplayments of the Aviation units.

Credibility (Infra)
UNIT EQUIP. BASENo. 2 Sqn. (Composite)
Bell UH-1, Cessna O-1 Lahore MFI-17 MashakNo. 3 Sqn. (Composite) Cessna O-1, MFI-17 MashakNo. 4 Sqn. Mil Mi 8 DhamialNo. 4 Sqn. Mil Mi 8 Rahwali(Det.) No. 4 Sqn. Mil Mi 8 Gilgit(Det.)No. 5 Sqn. Alouette III Dhamial No. 6 Sqn. Bell UH-1H, Dhamial(ERC) AB-205A-1 No. 7 Sqn. Cessna-O1, Shar-e-Faisal(Composite) MFI-17 Mashak No. 8 Sqn. Lama DhamialNo. 8 Sqn. Lama Skardu (Det.) No. 9 Sqn. Alouette III Peshawar(Composite) MFI-17 Mashak Cessna O-1 No. 13 Sqn. MFI-17 Mashak, Dhamial(Composite) Cessna O-1 No. 21 Sqn. Puma, Bell UH-1H MultanNo. 25 Sqn. PumaNo. 31 Sqn. Bell Ah-1S, 206 Multan No. 32 Sqn. Bell Ah-1S, 206 MultanArmy Aviation Bell OH-13, GujranwalaSchool MFI-17 Mashak VIP Flight cessna 421 Dhamial Rockwell Turbo Commander Air Force MFI-17 MashakAcademy Army Army Aviation ' DhamialEngineering School 503 Workshop Emergency Relief Cell Bell 205 Dhamial Frontier Corps Bell 206 DhamialCourtesy of: World Air Power Journal[This message has been edited by sunil sainis (edited 21-11-1999).]

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 20:50

Sunil wrote: Q.Quincy,There are several reports at the Defence Journal Site, by officers that speak of their days in the army. These accounts contain details of the corps architecture (often below the divisional level), is this susceptible to change' Does the structure of a division change' As an example look at this.. <A HREF="http://www.defencejournal.com/june98/wayitwas.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.defencejournal.com/june98/wayitwas.htm (credibility)(positive-affirmative)"When I joined 23 Cavalry, the regiment was in the 10 Division reserve, part of 22 Brigade." "23 Cavalry remained the integral regiment of 10 Division and remained in Lahore. Initially it was allotted the 24 Cavalry lines near the Stadium but later it was decided that it would be easier to move the regiment to the border if it was housed closer to the border and was moved to dilapidated ordnance warehouses in Harbanspura.""Early in February 1967, Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed Hayat, SJ, Frontier Force Rifles, later brigadier, took over the command of the 2nd Commando Battalion. He had won his SJ at Zafarwal commanding 4 FF. ""I had to report to 22 Cavalry at Multan At Multan Major Shah Rafi Alam, SJ, later lieutenant general, met me at the airport and took me to 4 Armoured Brigade Headquarters"". On arrival at Multan I learnt that 22 Cavalry was in Dera Ghazi Khan taking part inan exercise, I got a jeep from the regiment and drove to Dera Ghazi Khan arriving late in the evening. The exercise had ended, the next morning I attended the 'post mortem' and left for the 22 Cavalry camp in Muzaffargarh. "how accurate is this likely to be' because there is a lot of positive-affirmative material here..

Sunil wrote: Q.Quincy, Thanks for your prompt reply. I have been rather busy lately, but i shall find the time to read through BRIG (Retd) ZA Khans material. It should offer us at least a first order approximation to what is the structure of the PA. I shall also download all the articles and store them for future reference.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 21:00

Sunil wrote: Q.QuincyI trawled through the articles upto oct98, pertaining to events around 1962-1971. This is what i dug out.. i am calling it quits at this stage, i need to get some sleep.. A lot of it is just excerpts from the text so it is not all coherent. each blank line denotes the start of a new reference. I would rate all this in the positive but possible old range..

(march98)
23 Cavalry would be the integral tank regiment of 8 Division and stationed at Quetta(april98)6 Armoured Division was the 100 Independent Armoured Brigade consisting ofthree armoured regiments, 13 Lancers, Guides Cavalry and 11 Cavalry, two motorised infantry battalions, 9 FF and 14 FF, one self propelled artillery regiments, it had engineers and service units which had been upgraded from companys to battalions, it did not have any brigade headquarters.The division commander was Major General Abrar Hussain, there was no colonel staff, the GSO 1 was Lieutenant Colonel Farzand Ali, 13 Lancers,the AA&QMG was Lieutenant Colonel Ghouse Mohiuddin, 4 Cavalry, the GSO 2(Operations) was Major Habib Akbar, 6 Lancers, later brigadier, the GSO 2(Intelligence) was Major Mir Abad Hussain, 6 Lancers, later brigadier,there was a DAAG and I became the 'DQ', relieving Major Khalid Kayani who hurriedly completed the formalities and left.(** This unit i.e 6 Division was based at Sialkot in 1965, there is areference to a big operation they planned in the sialkot sector called WINDUP in one of the other articles. **)

23 Cavalry had moved from Quetta to Lahore and had replaced 24 Cavalry as the divisional integral armoured regiment.On 4 September 6 Brigade arrived from Quetta, relieved 102 Brigade forming the firm base on the Tawi, and 102 Brigade advanced forcing the Indians to abandon Jaurian.The Indian attack had an immediate effect on Grand Slam', 10 Brigade was ordered to move to Sialkot, 11 Cavalry reverted to 6 Armoured Division, 4 Corps Artillery was placed under command 1 Corps.

(may98)
15 Division with three infantry brigades, two armoured regiments 31 and 33 TDUs and 20 Lancers, Corps Reconnaissance Regiment was made responsible for Sialkot and Jassar,(8 this one is a wartime deployment during 1965 so it is not likely to bethe same now.) on 18 September, 1 Corps reorganised the command between the Chenab and the Ravi rivers, 15 Division with 51, 101 and 104 Brigades was to defend Sialkot, 6 Armoured Division with 4 Armoured Brigade and 14 (Para) Brigade was made responsible for the area up to Chawinda and 8 Division, now commanded by Major General Naseer who had been removed from the command of 1 Armoured Division, with 10, 24 and 115 Brigades, was made responsible for Chawinda, Zafarwal and Narowal.The Headquarters 4 Armoured Brigade was now made available to 6 Armoured Division to command its armour elements which now consisted of 19 Lancers,22 Cavalry and 14 FF and was given the task of containing the salient across the Sialkot-Narowal railway line.11 Division was responsible from Bedian to Gandasinghwala. This division consisted of 21, 52 and 106 Brigades of two battalions each, 6 Lancers as the integral armoured regiment and the artillery was one heavy regimentand it had 15 Lancers, a corps reconnaissance regiment was also undercommand. The border defences from Gandasinghwala to Sulemanki were also the responsibility of the division but were handed over to the Rangers.

The operational task of the division was the defence of Kasur, attacks along the Ferozepur-Kasur and the Khem-Karan - Kasur roads and the securingof Pajoke-Bahadur Nagar line to facilitate the operations of the Army reserve.The Army Reserve consisting of 1 Armoured Division and 7 Division was located in the area Changa Manga Forest to operate south of Sulemanki, in the Ravi-Sutlej corridor and in the Chenab-Ravi corridor. 7 Division,commanded by Major General A.M. Yahya detached 25 Brigade to 6 Armoured Division, 10 Brigade was despatched to 12 Division for operation 'Grand Slam' and the Headquarters 7 Division moved to Bhimber leaving 14 (Para) Brigade which also moved to Chawinda leaving 1 Armoured Division without any infantry.1 Armoured Division, the elite armoured formation of the Pakistan Army, evolved from the 3rd Independent Armoured Brigade, it had two armoured brigades of an armoured regiment and an armoured/motorised infantry battalion, one brigade of two armoured regiments and an armoured infantry battalion and a reconnaissance regiment.

(june98)
I then called on the 10 Division EME Battalion..In mid April of 1966, about year after the army had moved to the borders, the troops were back in their barracks, 23 Cavalry remained the integral regiment of 10 Division and remained in Lahore.22 Cavalry at Multan to be promoted lieutenant colonel. I flew from Rawalpindi to Lahore and had to stop almost the whole night at the Lahoreairport. At Multan Major Shah Rafi Alam, SJ, later lieutenant general, met me at the airport and took me to 4 Armoured Brigade Headquarters

(july98)
22 Cavalry was raised as the integral regiment of 7 Division in 1962, equipped with M 48A1 tanks and stationed at Peshawar. It had a 'Classcomposition' of 60% PMs (Punjabi Musalman) and 40% Pathans. Lieutenant Colonel Mohammad Yasin Khan, 11 Cavalry, raised the regiment and commanded it till the beginning of 1966. During the '65 war with India the regiment came under the command of 6 Armoured Division and held the left flank ofthe division, linking it with 15 Division. Since 22 Cavalry was deployed in a relative quiet sector, the Junior Commissioned Officers and the men explored the battlefield and recovered a number of tanks abandoned by the Guides Cavalry and other tank regiments operating in the area, after the ceasefire the regiment had more tanks than it was authorised. In the reorganisation after the '65 war 22 Cavalry became part of 4 Armoured Brigade in 1 Armoured Division. Lieutenant Colonel Sikander on promotion assumed the command of the regiment in 1966 but about a year later he had a difference of opinion with Major General Gul Hasan and was replaced by Lieutenant Colonel Zia-ul-Haq.

22 Cavalry was supposed to have been in a bad shape and Lieutenant Colonel Zia-ul-Haq was sent to bring it at par with the rest of the armoured regiments of 1 Armoured Division. 22 Cavalry and 7 FF, an armoured infantry battalion, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Niazi, formed 4 Armoured Brigade The 1 Armoured Division, at this time consisted of three armoured brigades, 3rd Armoured Brigade of two armoured regiments and an armoured infantry battalion, 4th and 5th Armoured Brigades of an armoured regiment and one armoured infantry battalion each. The Divisional Artillery consisted of a medium regiment, three 'self propelled' field regiments and an anti-aircraft regiment. The division had a reconnaissance regiment and the necessary service units. The reconnaissance regiment was 12 Cavalry commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Mohammed Abdullah Shah Orakzai, the armoured regiments were 5 Horse commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Agha JavedIqbal, 3rd PMA Course, later colonel, 6 Lancers, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Arshad Mehmud Javed, later brigadier, 19 Lancers commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Syed Wajahat Hussain, later major general, the infantry units were 1 FF, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Abdullah Saeed, later major general, 7 FF, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Niazi and 1 FF,commanded by Lieutenant Colonel 'George' Rabbani, later major general.Akram Hussain Syed from my course was also promoted and had the privilege of raising a new regiment, 28 Cavalry, as the integral regiment of 23 Division.Just before martial law was declared Colonel Zia-ul-Haq was promoted and posted to raise and command 9 Armoured Brigade in 6 Armoured Division,

(aug98-sept98)
(*this appears to be solely on b-desh*)

(oct98)
On 25 September the Station Headquarters Rawalpindi informed me that I had been posted to raise 38 Cavalry in Hyderabad, to be part of the 18 Division. I packed up and drove to Rawalpindi, when I saw the posting order it said that Lieutenant Colonel Shamim Yasin Manto, later brigadier,was posted to 28 Cavalry, the integral armoured regiment of 23 Division, which had been raised and commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Akram Syed 31 Cavalry, originally 31 Tank Delivery Unit located at Sialkot became 31 Cavalry after the `65 war with India and moved to Hyderabad as the integral armoured regiment of 18 Division. In the middle of 1971 it was decided to equip the armoured regiment of 18 Division with T-59 Chinese tanks. Since 31 Cavalry was not trained on the T-59s it was decided that 22 Cavalry from the 1st Armoured Division would move to Hyderabad and takeover new T-59 tanks and 31 Cavalry would move to the 1st Armoured Division to be trained on T-59 tanks, the Sherman II tanks of 31 Cavalry would be overhauled and handed over to the newly created 38 Tank Delivery Unit, a nucleus tank regiment with the full complement of tanks, a few vehicles and about 115 men, to be located at Hyderabad and when necessary it would be converted into a regiment by posting the manpower and providing the necessary additional equipment and vehicles.An armoured regiment in 1971 had fifty tanks, including tank dozers and armoured recovery vehicles; for command, control, administration and communication, jeeps and 3/4 tons fitted with wireless sets capable ofcommunicating with tanks were authorised,(*this part is about the battle of longewala)

38 Cavalry grouped with 1 Punjab and a mortar battery, under my command,was to follow 51 Brigade up to Loganewala and then to proceed independently to seize and neutralise the Indian Air Force base at Jaisalmir.1 Punjab was reverted to the command of 206 Brigade and we received instructions from the division headquarters that the operation would be continued after last light. At Gabbar just before last light 38 Baluch,commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Anwar Shah, joined 22 Cavalry and a battery of 130 mm guns passed through to Masitwari Bhit.20 FF, a battalion of 206 Brigade, was not provided with transport and started off on foot the commanding officer of 28 Baluch the Reconnaissance and Support Battalion of 18 Division to advance along the Loganewala- Jaisalmir road and capture Ghotaru,the two infantry battalions of 206 Brigade, I Punjab and 10 Punjab had arrived.then take the vehicle to the 18 Division tactical headquarters at Gabbar.A few days after my headquarters moved to Manthar, Risaldar Major MazharAli informed me that there were allegations of cowardice against Major Ghulam Mujtaba `A' Squadron commander, whose squadron had been placed under command of 55 Brigade at Chhor.A' Squadron was initially placed inthe brigade reserve with 26 Baluch,On 15 December all the tanks of the squadron with a company of 39 FF attacked BP 405 and it was occupied without opposition, later another attack by 45 Punjab was supported.8 Division operations, code named Labbaik, as an exercise in futility. The mission assigned to 18 Division was to `Defend the area of responsibility in order to ensure the security of the main lines of communications Karachi - Multan and be prepared to carry out the war into the enemy territory under favourable conditions.'

This implied the guarding of the 600 miles of road and rail communications which came precariously close tothe border from Dharki to Rahim Yar Khan, the 18 Division attack surprised the Indians, it was a successful spoiling attack, the Indians never recovered their balance. The division's mission was accomplished both on the Chhor front and the Sadiqabad-Rahim Yar Khan area.army plan was to create a gap by drawing away the Indian 1 Armoured Division to Jaisalmer. When the gap sought was not achieved due to the failure of 18 Division, the army plan was revised. 3rd Armoured Brigade from IV Corps was made the flank protection force for the II Corpsoffensive. On 16 December II Corps, consisting of 1 Armoured Division, 7Division, 36 Division and 3rd Armoured Brigade was ordered to launch anoffensive in the Bahawalnagar - Fort Abbas area. 1 Armoured Division wasto move from its concentration area astride the Lodhran - Multan -Khanewal railway on the night of 16/17 December. A captain of 1 FF, commanding a train of his unit, drove the locomotive himself and derailedthe train blocking the railway line. 3rd Armoured Brigade moved from Changa Manga to its concentration area with lights blacked out and had forty accidents in the approach march. The launching of the offensive was delayed by twenty four hours, the next night 1 Armoured Division could not move again, there seemed to be built-in hindrance to the execution of the army plans. On 18 December we asked for a ceasefire. Lieutenant Colonel S. S. Islam, Corps of Signal, was the 1 Armoured Division Signal Battalion commander during the war.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 21:00

Sunil wrote: Q.Quincy, I entirely agree with your assesment, i tried to keep it focussed but the book has some rather tempting historical stuff in it. Right now i dont have any plans to build up a PA orbat site. even if i can build up one small database with positive credibility material and then if the Admins agree to archive the thread, i feel a lot will have been achieved. This thread could form the basis for any further ideas that someone may have. So at my end this is primarily an effort at collating information out there.. the real picture as you said is outside our reach.. I am grateful to you for your guidance.. I am a physics grad student here at yale so very often all these hobbies are sustained at the expense of sleep and a `normal' social life.. not too bad a bargain in my present frame of mind..

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 21:01

Sunil wrote: jayji,I am pressed for time, i only get time to search out stuff and put it up here, i would appreciate it if you collated the info. we have here. I like the spreadsheet format. Please try to accomodate everything possible. Q.Quincy,Please put up even the most obscure details that you can recall, i do not have a specific use for this information in mind, but it is possible someone else might, so I would prefer it that the possibility is not precluded. Bharat-rakshak has a strong interest in military-historical perspectives of india-pakistan, so some of the info may be of use to the Mil. Hist. types here. as regards nuclear weapons, i was supposed to work on a write up on the indian tests, but that requires more time than i can put in at this point.. so i have put it on the back-burner at least till winter break. You point about the copy writers of the book is well made, i did not consider this a possibility. As regards Brig khan, i am quite unsure what to make of him, his accounts are extra-ordinarily detailed, but how they have been colored by his interactions with the PA senior management or his treatment by the same i cannot say. He is very judicious with his praise, almost never does he praise the men under his command, missing also are the eulogies and the hot-talk that one often finds in accounts such as these. Also this is the first time i have heard a military officer accuse his troops of being "thieves".. it is all very unusual..

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 21:01

Jagan wrote: Posted by Mr. Q Quincy----------------------------------------Okay, gentlemen. If you all are really that interested.Pakistan I Corps HQ Mangla6 Armored Division, HQ Kharian; 7 and 9 Armored Brigades, also both Kharian.17 Division, HQ Kharian; 77, 207, and 315 Brigades, all Kharian.New division, location and flag not known to me.Pakistan XXX Corps HQ Sialkot8 Division, HQ Sialkot; 14, 24, 124 Brigades, all Sialkot.15 Division, HQ Sialkot; 10, 101, 114, 313 Brigades, all Sialkot.8 Independent Armored Brigade, station unknown54 Independent Infantry Brigade, Sialkot.Notes: 14 Brigade has also been known as 14 Parachute Brigade. My question to Mr. Sainis on keeping an eye out for 101 Brigade has been answered, I should have looked more closely at Mr. Rikhye's message.More to follow; meantime for those interested, Indian X Corps, HQ Bhatinda.18 Division Kota, three brigades at Kota.16 Division Gobindgarh, four brigades, at Kasauli (95), Fazilka (67), Ganganager (51), and Fazilka.24 Division at Bikaner, one brigade at Suratgarh and 3 at Bikaner.6 Independent Armored Brigade, Bhatinda.Note: 24 was first RAPID; on reflection, I think 16 has to be RAPID too. There used be a distinction between offensive and defensive RAPID; if it still remains, 16 and 24 would be offensive, as X Corps is actually a strike corps even though it holds defensive positions between Fazilka and Suratgarh. XII Corps Jodhpur11 Division HQ ''Ahemdabad'' with brigades at Poona, Bangalore, and Ahemdabad.12 Division, HQ Jodhpur, with three brigades.4 Independent Armored Brigade, Jodhpur61 Independent Infantry Brigade, Jodhpur.XI Corps Jull under 15 Division HQ ''Amritsar'' with two brigades at Gurdaspur, one at Jullunder, and one at Amritsar.9 Division, HQ Meerut, one brigade Meerut, one brigade Delhi, one brigade Jullunder.(Note on 9 Division: this does not have to deploy to XI Corps but given the realities on the ground it definitely will, and Gurdaspur is the most likely war station.)7 Division, HQ Ferozepur, three brigades.23 Independent Armored Brigade55 Independent Mechanized Brigade, Beas.Most of the above referenced to Mr. Rikhye.All the best till next time.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Feb 2009 21:04

Sunil wrote: Hi this is the last scan of the Z.A.Khan book..
(nov98) February 1972
I and my family moved to Kharian and I reported at the 6 Armoured Division headquarters which was located in a canal department rest house at Satrah.In the division headquarters just before my arrival, the colonel staff,Colonel Agha Javed Iqbal, the commanding officer of the Signal Battalion, Lieutenant Colonel Khurshid, the commander 9 Armoured Brigade, BrigadierIqbal Mehdi Shah, the commanding officer 9 FF, commander I Corps Artillery Brigadier F.B. Ali and Colonel Alim Afridi, Artillery, had been posted out from their postsLieutenant Colonel Syed Masood Ahmad, who had been a squadron officer with me in 'A' Squadron, 13 Lancers, and had commanded the regiment during the battle took me around the battlefield, and described the battle. Looking at the terrain I estimated that the Indians would have had six squadrons of tanks but Lieutenant Colonel Masood told me that after the ceasefire they had found that there were nine squadrons. There were a lot of reasons for the 13 Lancers disaster,

I Corps commander launched a counter attack without sealing the breach in his front, Brigadier Mohammad Ahmad, commander 8 Armoured Brigade made no effort to find out the extent of the breach in the Corps front or the strength of the enemy he was counter attacking. The 6 Armoured Division peace station was Kharian, about sixty miles from the area where it was deployed,In June 1972 I was posted to command the 3rd (Independent) Armoured Brigade in IV Corps,I took over the command of 3rd Armoured Brigade from Brigadier Fazl-e-Haq, later lieutenant general.

The 3rd Armoured Brigade, minus armoured regiments, was taken from 1 Armoured Division, it consisted of the armoured infantry battalion 1 FF, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Rana,later brigadier, 16 (SP) Field Regiment, Artillery, the services elements came from the armoured division, 4 Cavalry, equipped with M 48 tanks,commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Khawar Rashid Peerzada, taken from 11 Division and 15 Lancers, equipped with T- 34 Russian tanks, the IV Corps reconnaissance regiment, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel M. Khurshid Afridi, who had been a platoon commander in 'J' Company, SSG, when I raised it, composed the armour element but 15 Lancers was deployed to cover the Sutlej river from Hussieniwala to Sulemanki, 52 Punjab,commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Shafiq, later lieutenant general, a newly raised infantry battalion made up its order of battle.The brigade major of the brigade was Major Hamid Gul, later lieutenant general and the DQ was Major Allah Baksh Tiwana, the brigade headquarters was located in the Changa Manga Forest Rest House. Although 3rd Armoured Brigade was supposed to be an 'Independent' brigade, its organisation had not been decided and powers of an independent brigade commander were not delegated, therefore the Corps commander held the administrative and disciplinary powers. The role of the brigade was to counter attack any lodgement by the Indians between the Ravi River and Sulemanki headwork.In November I was informed that the brigade was to return to its peace station Lahore and minefields were to be lifted. 15 Lancers was deployed along the Sutlej River and certain areas were mined.On 11 September, which was holiday on account of Quaid-e-Azam's death anniversary, I received an immediate order posting me to 9 Armoured Brigade in 6 Armoured Division, in Kharian.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Feb 2009 11:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLjpqCN7l4M&NR

can anyone tell me if the shot @ 1:41 is a real one or not ?
if so it's incredible.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 23 Feb 2009 13:53

Does'nt look real, even if it was, it was most probably some other air force.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Feb 2009 16:27

there was a norwegian tail fin at the start... suspect that some of the snow scenes might be from norway. almost all the fancy shots had chini subtitles anyway!

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 26 Feb 2009 16:34

Now Pakis are openely Begging , They are openely asking US to provide them with technology to fight terror

link

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 01 Mar 2009 09:18

Modern & Civilized manner of Begging.

by-the-by we should not forget that any US technology provided to Pakistan will be finally endup in China, for reversing it.

Are there any news about Pakistan Defence Budget ?

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 01 Mar 2009 12:35

U.S. Retains Hidden Grip on Pakistan's Nukes

http://www.metimes.com/International/20 ... ukes/9552/

nitinr · Post by **nitinr** » 01 Mar 2009 16:51

yesterday heard on some Pakistani or Indian news channel about Paki nukes under US control. There are 6 places that they have been kept and these are known / under control of US.

Anybody in the know how to shed any light on this?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 05 Mar 2009 20:43

Pakistan Air Force jet crashes, pilot killed
Thursday, March 05, 2009 18:01 [IST]

Islamabad: A Pakistan Air Force jet Thursday crashed near the garrison city of Rawalpindi, killing the pilot, a media report said.

The Mushak jet crashed in the Pindi Gheb area of Attock district in the eastern Punjab province, the private Dawn News TV channel reported.

Details of the incident were not immediately known, it said. Mushak is a military training aircraft used by the Pakistan Air Force, the report said.

Some info on "Mushak" can be found here.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Mushak

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 05 Mar 2009 21:03

parshuram wrote:Now Pakis are openely Begging , They are openely asking US to provide them with technology to fight terror

link

Whatever it be, one hopes our babus are not sitting on their duffs only to be caught flat-footed later. We need to preempt a bout of Pentagon insanity and declare that any such transfer will be regarded as a hostile move by India.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 08 Mar 2009 03:47

Pak, China to produce fighter jets.

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and China on Saturday signed an agreement for the serial production of 42 JF-17 Thunder jet fighters, which are expected to form the backbone of the Pakistani aerial combat fleet in coming years (a 3G aircraft is going to be the "backbone" of Fizzleya)

Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood, the chief of the Pakistan Air Force, said the first squadron of JF-17s would be inducted into his force this year.

Though Pakistan is facing a financial crunch, the serial production of the aircraft is being started with the cooperation of the Chinese government, Mahmood said. Pakistan has invested USD 600 million in the JF-17 project.

The agreement for producing the jets was signed at the PAF headquarters by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry and M A Zhiping, President of state-run China Aviation Import-Export Corporation.

The ceremony was attended by Mahmood and Chinese Ambassador Luo Zhaohui.

Under the agreement, China will provide credit financing for manufacturing the jets. Payments will be made to China in seven years, Mahmood said.

The JF-17 is a lightweight, all-weather, multi-role combat jet developed jointly by Pakistan and China. The Pakistan Air Force has so far received eight JF-17 jets that are being used for testing and evaluation (An aircraft bing "tested and evaluated" after its induction? Who are they kidding? translation of the chinese flying instructions into urdu/punjabi is taking time)

Mahmood also said that Pakistan would receive its first Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft from China by the end of 2010.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Mar 2009 05:23

this should make it clear to the GoI (if those idiots even pay attention to anything) about who the true enemies of India are. they're doing what the Soviets did for India- friendship prices and that sort of stuff, which clearly shows that they are strategically trying to prop up Pukes so as to contain India.

With siging of an agreement between Pakistan Air Force and Chinese firm CATIC the serial production of JF-17 (Thunder) aircraft would start soon. The agreement between PAF and CATIC on the basis of “seller’s credit” was reached at a ceremony held here Saturday, whereby 42 fighter jets would be jointly produced for the use of PAF.

The agreement was signed on behalf of PAF by Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Air Marshal Khalid Chaudary and President CATIC MA Zhiping which was witnessed by Chief of the Air Staff PAF Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed and Ambassador of China to Pakistan Luo Zhaohui besides other senior officials from both the parties. Under the agreement the lot of 42 aircraft would be co-manufactured by China and Pakistan and later these would be inducted in the PAF’s fleet. By 2015 PAF will get 250 JF-17s at cost of 3000 millions. Though Pakistan is facing a financial crunch, the serial production of the aircraft is being started with the cooperation of the Chinese government, Mahmood said. Pakistan has invested USD 600 million in the JF-17 project.

Talking to media, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed congratulated the peoples and governments of Pakistan and China on conduction of successful tests and trails of the most modern aircraft of its class and signing of agreement for start of their serial production. He said “despite all odds we have been successful to reach the stage of starting serial production of the aircraft.” “In the beginning we will produce 15 aircraft annually and their number will increase to 30 in a year this programme will be carried out in phases,” he said. He said that PAF will get 40 JF-17 thunders this year.

He said first squadron of these highest quality fighter jets would be inducted in the PAF’s fleet by mid of this year as PAF has already been using 8 jointly produced aircraft for the last couple of years. This fleet would be raised in Peshawar, he added.

About the delivery of AWACS system to Pakistan, he said that agreement had already been reached with a Chinese firm which would start its delivery by 2010. On the delivery of first AWACS system Pakistan would pay 10 % cost of the aircraft while the rest would be paid on easy installments basis, he said.

Answering a question, he said the agreement between Pakistan and China for the delivery of High-Tech aircraft J‑10 was intact and these aircraft after improving them further would be delivered to PAF in 2014-15. He said these aircraft are being modernized in accordance with the PAF’s requirements and delivered under the title of FC-20.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 08 Mar 2009 05:38

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/07/world ... ?ref=world

The Pakistan Frontier Corps....

narmad · Post by **narmad** » 10 Mar 2009 01:41

After the Taliban Air Force, time to battle the Taliban Navy news

Sometime in February this year, the Pakistan Navy was provided the clearance to acquire three types of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) sonobuoys - totaling 445 units - under the Foreign Military Sales programme. This piece of anti-submarine warfare equipment is of the same class as contracted for the US Navy.
Indeed, the contract signed with suppliers is a joint contract for the US and the Pakistan Navy.
The contract envisages the sale of 45 AN/SSQ-36B, 50 AN/SSQ-62E and 350 AN/SSQ-53F sonobuoys to the Pakistan Navy – a total of 445 units.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Mar 2009 04:51

UAV of PAF crashes near Kohat

ISLAMABAD, Mar 9 (APP): An Unmanned Arial Vehicle (UAV) of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) crashed near Kohat on a routine mission on Monday. Further details of the incident are being collected, said DPR (Air) Air Commodore Humayun.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Mar 2009 04:57

Friday, March 06, 2009
ISLAMABAD: A Pakistan Air Force plane crashed during a training flight on Thursday, killing the pilot and a cadet. The aircraft came down near Dhoke Pathan Bridge in Tala Gang, a town northwest of Islamabad after developing a technical fault.

According to PAF news release, the instructor and the cadet pilot embraced Shahadat in the crash.“Pakistan Air Force announces with great regret that a Mushshak trainer aircraft, on a routine training mission, crashed near Dhoke Pathhan Bridge (District Tala Gang), today,” the news release said. “The pilot of the aircraft, Squadron Leader Usman Safdar, and Aviation Cadet Zohaib embraced Shahadat.”

The PAF said that no loss of civilian life or property had been reported on the ground. “A board of inquiry has been ordered by Air Headquarters to determine the cause of accident,” it added.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 10 Mar 2009 06:53

Steel-cutting ceremony of first F22P Frigate held

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 009_pg12_8

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Mar 2009 11:57

Pak's UAV acquisitions from diverese sources.
=
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 90311.aspx

Pakistani Robots Speak Chinese and Italian
March 11, 2009: Pakistan is using several different types of UAVs along the Afghan and Indian borders. The most effective of these is the Italian Falco UAV, which Pakistan ordered Falco three years ago. The air force completed evaluation of the Falco a little over a year ago, and put at least four of them into service. Falco is a 924 pound aircraft with a 150 pound payload. Ceiling is 5,000 meters, but it usually operates at lower altitudes (2,000 meters). Endurance is up to 12 hours, but typical missions are 6-8 hours. Max speed is 210 kilometers an hour, although it usually cruises at 150. Falco can be up to 200 kilometers from its ground station. The UAV can take off and land on an air strip, or use a catapult for takeoff and parachute for landing.
Pakistan has also been using several Chinese UAVs for the last decade or so. First, they got the ASN-105, a 308 pound aircraft with a payload if 88 pounds and endurance of only two hours. This is a 1980s era design, that has since been replaced by the ASN-206/207. This is a 488 pound aircraft, with a 110 pound payload. The 207 model has a max endurance of eight hours, but more common is an endurance of four hours. Max range from the control van is 150 kilometers away and cruising speed is about 180 kilometers an hour. A UAV unit consists of one control van and 6-10 trucks, each carrying a UAV and its catapult launch equipment. The UAV lands via parachute, so the aircraft get banged up a lot. This UAV can broadcast back live video, and be equipped for electronic warfare.

Pakistan is also developing its own UAVs. Last year it flight tested the Uqaab. This design looks very similar to models offered by a Pakistani firm, Integrated Dynamics, which has been producing smaller (under 500 pounds) UAVs for the government and commercial market since 1997. The Uqaab also appears similar to the U.S. Army RQ-7B Shadow 200.

Pakistan requested Predators from the United States, but this was turned down because it was feared that the Chinese would be allowed to dissect the American UAV and acquire too many production secrets. Pakistan and China have been chummy for decades. No secrets between friends and all that. But European nations, like Italy and Germany, have been willing to sell Pakistan UAVs.

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 14 Mar 2009 14:25

Dear BRF Mods/Admins..
we have here three sub-forums under BRF namely
1) Military Isuues & History forum
2) Stratetegic Issues and International relations forum ,&
3)Technology&Economic Forum

but so much is written on pathetic pakistan in all sub-forums that it constitutes :
27 threads in Stratetegic Issues and Internationalrelations forum and
8 threads under Military Isuues & History forum( total 33+)
which have direct pakistan/bakistan/etc names on them and there are many more like terror strikes on mumbai etc which also have bakistani content in them or relate to pakistan
i propose that there should be separate sub-forum on pathetic pakistan such that all pathetic data and porki related discussions are kept kept in that 4th sub forum, so that nowhere in BRF there is porki shit discussed except that corner, so that real gyan(good information) may be separated from shit(porki involved discussions)
i m sure topics and discussions would appear more precise and concrete in other topics,threads,subforums rather than having a porki discussion in between a good discussion
so the new layout of board index would look like

1) Military Isuues & History forum
2) Stratetegic Issues and International relations forum ,&
3)Technology&Economic Forum
4)pakistan related discussons
(*in any order )

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 14 Mar 2009 16:38

Undisclosed Customer Purchases Air Defense System from Saab

Saab wins contract for air defence system

The defence and security company Saab has signed an export contract. The value of the contract is approximately SEK 340 million for air defence systems, to be delivered during 2010-2013.

At the request of the customer, information about the customer will not be announced. http://www.deagel.com/news/Undisclosed- ... 05787.aspx

could this be porkisatan, seems they are purchasing sams ???

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 14 Mar 2009 19:06

JaiS wrote:Steel-cutting ceremony of first F22P Frigate held

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 009_pg12_8

So PsyOps to re-arm pakistan has begun. What a crap shoot of an article, it is full of blurb for justifying Mike Mullen's promises to kiyani. Kiyani is treating mullen like a mule. Pak army is well equipped now kiyani is trying to have his second line of defence well equipped.
It seems to me given the fact that balkanization of pakistan is imminent, pakis are going to launch pre-emptive strike on India in Punjab and Kashmir area, that will help unite people, well tried and tested tactic to get off any political turmoil. Indian retaliation will be massive, frontier corps will act as 2nd line of defence against IA march in destroying pakistan.

Wonder if bhooda khoosat PM of India or any other neta is paying attention to war that getting closer to horizon.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 14 Mar 2009 19:56

namit k wrote:Undisclosed Customer Purchases Air Defense System from Saab
Saab wins contract for air defence system

The defence and security company Saab has signed an export contract. The value of the contract is approximately SEK 340 million for air defence systems, to be delivered during 2010-2013.

At the request of the customer, information about the customer will not be announced. http://www.deagel.com/news/Undisclosed- ... 05787.aspx
could this be porkisatan, seems they are purchasing sams ???

Could be. But I have gut that feeling its some European nation like Poland for a defensive posture against Russia. And why? It could also be us. They even recently opened an office in Delhi.

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 14 Mar 2009 20:11

Baljeet wrote:
JaiS wrote:Steel-cutting ceremony of first F22P Frigate held

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 009_pg12_8
So PsyOps to re-arm pakistan has begun. What a crap shoot of an article, it is full of blurb for justifying Mike Mullen's promises to kiyani. Kiyani is treating mullen like a mule. Pak army is well equipped now kiyani is trying to have his second line of defence well equipped.
It seems to me given the fact that balkanization of pakistan is imminent, pakis are going to launch pre-emptive strike on India in Punjab and Kashmir area, that will help unite people, well tried and tested tactic to get off any political turmoil. Indian retaliation will be massive, frontier corps will act as 2nd line of defence against IA march in destroying pakistan.

Wonder if bhooda khoosat PM of India or any other neta is paying attention to war that getting closer to horizon.

in India 'neta' is an abbreviation of ' Not Enlightened To Act' and they've proven themselves time and again.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 16 Mar 2009 05:46

SAAB - ERIEYE - Explained

The thrill that was Aman 2009

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 18 Mar 2009 08:04

Pak navy chief to visit Kingdom

Air Chief Marshal Rao is an accomplished fighter pilot

Pakistan Navy team visits Malaysia to bolster bilateral relations

New PAF chief assumes charge today
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg7_8

Whole of PAF made nuclear: Air Chief

UK writer’s book on PAF’s history launched in Capital
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 009_pg7_34

krishna_j · Post by **krishna_j** » 20 Mar 2009 00:50

JaiS wrote: UK writer’s book on PAF’s history launched in Capital
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 009_pg7_34

Alan Warnes (editor of AFM) is in Pak to launch his new book - New Dawn Vol III - History of PAF 1998-2008

"Author Alan Warnes said his passion for writing a book on PAF developed when in 2001 he met PAF chief and formed working relationship with PAF. “PAF is the only air force in the world that is co- designed, co-developed, and co-engineered with the UK,” he said."

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 009_pg7_34

Maybe The RAF or AFM forgot to charge an annual license fee - and AW is there to collect with arrears

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 22 Mar 2009 05:13

Flickr:Pakistan Air Force Base, Peshawar

Rear Admiral Muhammad Shafi promoted