Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Shameek » 25 Apr 2010 20:28

Nair wrote:Really?..China gave them nukes and missiles to launch it on compared to the US giving them some conventional weaponry none of which will stand before an Indian conventional offensive to any degree...and both are comparable?


The US did not give them 'some' weaponry. As posted above it is quite a lot and cannot just be wished away. Everything they got causes an additional headache for us. If you were planning an air war, would you rather deal with 40 old F-16 block 15s or with an additional 20 block 52s? The reason they held back during Kargil was because they did not have BVR capability. Guess what the new AMRAAMs give them now.
The part most dont like is the fact that they got all this stuff supposedly for fighting the talibuns. When clearly everyone with an iota of logic knows where these will actually be used.
Our conventional superiority is due to equipment we have bought with our countries resources. Given the pathetic state of their economy, ideally they should not be able to compete with us in an 'arms race' and should go bankrupt. But getting 'gifts' negates all that doesnt it?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sawant » 25 Apr 2010 21:11

Well... in a way all these weapons are like fig leaves to the PA... we shd however ensure that next time there is a conflict, we remove this fig leaves F-16s quickly... i hope we use the best we got .. not send in a couple of Mig-21s/Jaguars to handle them n giv them a chance to shoot them down or engage and boast abt... I am fine with all the noise and concern we raise... its just that we shd hav practised and perfected in shooting them down ...

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 25 Apr 2010 21:38

With the inclusion of chini/amriki amraam into paf, any surgical strike/cold strike will surely be converted into full fledged air warfrom their side .
with the induction of awacs ,they will be at par in centric warfare with us ,particularly in that theatre ,.

If their weakness is lesser depth ,then that will be their strength as well.

supposedly 8 awacs + 8 p3 orion will cover all areas and this cover will be very hard to remove because ,as already mentioned, now they have reliable amriki amraams(500+) and amriki AShW harpoon (range around 200km) .

In short ,they have an edge on us in a limited warfare ,.
And since our options(due to political reasons) are limited to a short war/surgical strikes/cold start , they now have to focus in particularly that area of short war , hence they will be better positioned than us, because their assets will be directed towards more concrete purpose ,while ours will be widespread(keeping tab on chinese incursions as well) ,

As I have already said in previous posts, they, rather than us ,are in strategically better position to inflict early damages ,which could be equal with what we will do to them,.(in all air,land and sea)

therefore they might turn equal or more decisive in a tiny war , because when it comes to mobility and preparedness they are better positioned ,to be.

look at their waepons purchase, they focus towards a faster response than ours, for ex, saab 2000 takes lesser time to take off, F-16 ,NVC tanks, etc,.

AWACS, is certainly a game changer for pakis, it may not be for us.
It certainly gives the more flexibility than ever, which makes our case weak,.

All they need is ground based MR-SAM systems uplinked with awacs, and their bit of preparations will be complete..

We are losing edge because of this AWACS , what should be our response ?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 25 Apr 2010 22:48


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Nihat » 26 Apr 2010 00:36

Samay wrote:With the inclusion of chini/amriki amraam into paf, any surgical strike/cold strike will surely be converted into full fledged air warfrom their side .
with the induction of awacs ,they will be at par in centric warfare with us ,particularly in that theatre ,.

If their weakness is lesser depth ,then that will be their strength as well.

supposedly 8 awacs + 8 p3 orion will cover all areas and this cover will be very hard to remove because ,as already mentioned, now they have reliable amriki amraams(500+) and amriki AShW harpoon (range around 200km) .

In short ,they have an edge on us in a limited warfare ,.?


That is heavily dependent on what we perceive to be "limited warfare" , if we remain stuck with cold start which still revolves around the dated idea of armoured thrust it singularly defeats the purpose as TSP can mobilize as quick as us owing to close bases and launch pads, it then becomes a stalemate. In the same way the idea around "surgical strikes" using air force jets is also fraught with risks and the probability of accomplishing the task is uncertain at best.

I’m no military strategist and don’t pretend to be one either but what I do understand is that we need not put human assets at risk in a limited conflict where the job can be done just as well with technology.
Assume another 26/11 type attack and we need to respond fast and decidedly, what’ll be the targets to hit?

Terror camps across the LOC

All airbases on the eastern front in TSP and possibly one or two on the western front

Industrial infrastructure belt

Power plants and Fuel supply Depots and Nuclear plants

Gwadar and Karachi to be disabled for ship movements

GHQ and other army cantonment areas

SAM sites, radar installations and Nuke storage facilities

The list can go on to include a few more targets but the point I’m trying to make is that there is not a single target inside TSP that cannot be hit using guided missile technology well below the nuclear threshold.

The whole of TSP can be shaken up in one night if we have the right equipment including a Range of Spy satellites with Day-night see through capability, large number of Brahmos missiles, Air launced brahmos, Nirbhay (Air, sea and land) , K-100 etc.
Every time I hear the idea of tank thrust into TSP , I see futility behind it because even if we annex a large chunk of land , TSP will subsequently be bailed out by 3.5 friends and India despite great human sacrifices will feel short changed.

It’s infinitely better to hit targets deep inside TSP in quick time, with 200% accuracy and using as little human effort as possible.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 26 Apr 2010 01:52

We are losing edge because of this AWACS , what should be our response ?

I think we need this kind of solution,providing a quick punch on pakistan's face when and where we want ..........

WASHINGTON: Haunted by the memory of a lost opportunity in 1998 to kill Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, even before he could hatch the plan to attack the World Trade Center in New York, US military planners have won President Barack Obama's support for a new generation of high-speed weapons that are intended to strike anywhere on Earth within an hour.

The non-nuclear weapons programme, called Prompt Global Strike, would feature hypersonic missiles that can deliver with such accuracy and force that they would greatly diminish America's reliance on its nuclear arsenal.

Although we have started working on something like this(H-Brahmos) It needs to be bigger and more accurate , for a decisive knockout .
let them keep their awacs and alkhalids to rust ..

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Tushar » 26 Apr 2010 02:20

Only difference is that the Indian economy is 11 times smaller than that of the United States, while our defence budget is 25 times smaller. Neither can we procure enough number or Brahmos or anything similar in enough numbers to reduce our dependancy on tanks and artillery. Maybe in 50 years we can consider this, but certainly not now.

The United States can purchase and develop these platforms relatively easily, while the Indians cannot. Just the Gorkha regiment is enough to take care of the whole Porki land force. Arm them with some milans and shoulder lauched sams and you can bring down Pakistans full concentional force.

But nuclear is another issue

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby bhavani » 26 Apr 2010 06:06

I think many of these items are expected and unkil is going to sell to all including pakis. The only thing that should concern us are the p-3 with awacs. The pakis getting weapons from unkil is not surprising. But unkil is ready to sellstuff to anybody with money. The turks were given everything by unkil and israel and now they are turning against them. They sell them p-3's and then sell us p-8's and may be they will sell them P-12's

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby K Mehta » 26 Apr 2010 14:23

^ The problem was never and will never be what US sells to Pakistan, the problem is what it gifts to Pakistan.

US Foreign Aid to East and South Asia: Selected Recipients- PDF document
The report only covers 05-09, google for earlier years and see what is supplied as EDA, FMF, IMET, INCLES and NADR. compare that with other countries even Afghanistan!

And that is just the list which is officially published! There are hundred other ways to get things done! Not to mention how much of the aid for development etc gets channeled to charities like JuD or gets siphoned by the generals!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 26 Apr 2010 16:32

Even bigger problem is our political mindset.
USA will keep on supplying weapons to pak,in one way or other.

It wont stop because we (our media and people) are saying so,, unless there is a serious diplomatic pressure on them .they will never understand that Indians have so much pain because of this .. Our politicians keep mum on this when they go for a visit ,they talk about iran,nuclear reactors, commissions, but not about this..

Todays political environment enables us to stop the dangerous category FMS from usa to pakis anytime, and USA will have to oblige


Things aren't so worse than they are made by our politicians .

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby bhavani » 26 Apr 2010 20:03

Samay,

I dont think the idea of diplomatic pressure on US is going to work. We are expecting too much from our relationship with US. US is now like a lady of the night and will sleep with anybody for the right price (economic or strategic).

I did not understand how todays political environment gives us leverage to stop the flow of weapons from US to pakistan.

This just reinforces the idea that India should be able to keep its Strategy fairly independent and not jump at every acquisition by pukees and worry that we are loosing our edge at thier every acquisition.

Tomorrow pukis may buy a dozen or two of HQ-9's from china and then acquire a few squadrons of J-10 and then what we run too US to give us Patroit or to Russia for S-400.

I think we should have some long term strategic plan, when South Koreans joined Russians in developing a customized S-400 we could have joined them and by early 2012 we could have have a some of them covering the whole eastern and western front.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby bhavik » 26 Apr 2010 21:06

Everything is commercial!
MoD needs to be quick
1. Cancel all deals with USA.
2. Exclude F18, F16 from MMRCA race.
3. Can russia be made to stop engines for Porkistani JF-17's?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 26 Apr 2010 21:31

I think we should have some long term strategic plan, when South Koreans joined Russians in developing a customized S-400 we could have joined them and by early 2012 we could have have a some of them covering the whole eastern and western front.

Ummm, aren't we already doing such "long term planning" by having the Barak, SRSAM, MRSAM, LRSAM etc with the Israelis?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 27 Apr 2010 00:04

bhavani wrote:Samay,

I dont think the idea of diplomatic pressure on US is going to work. We are expecting too much from our relationship with US. US is now like a lady of the night and will sleep with anybody for the right price (economic or strategic).

I did not understand how todays political environment gives us leverage to stop the flow of weapons from US to pakistan.



right ,
but that woman has to satisfy local pandu before it enters in that area.
to operate in afpak amriki satisfies pakistan
to operate in subcontinent as a whole,it has to listen to the senior rank pandu ..
I will suggest some areas ,that would clarify ,what we can do diplomatically locally
1) afghanistan-taliban
2)balochistan
3)china
4)iran
5)asia

when it comes to the world biggest democracy, our capablities are untapped,
thing is we have never tested them except on pakistan
This just reinforces the idea that India should be able to keep its Strategy fairly independent and not jump at every acquisition by pukees and worry that we are loosing our edge at thier every acquisition.

of course we should jump on each and every madness that amrika does in the subcontinent, because it causes our soldiers and innocent people lose their lives..
there is no fixed amount of jumping that could be done, you can jump a lot tirelessly
Having an Independent policy is a must .

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby arun » 28 Apr 2010 20:10

X Posted.

The commercial profit making doctrine of the Pakistan Military in action with the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seeming to have succeeded in arm twisting the Supreme Court of Pakistan into muscling out the competition and clearing the way for the wholly Pakistan Military owned Fauji Foundation to snag a lucrative LNG supply deal.

Will France take note of this trampling of their commercial interests when they weigh up the pro’s and con’s of the supply of avionics for the Pakistani Air Forces JF-17 fighters given that the company muscled out is GDF-Suez in which the Government of France has a substantial equity stake? :

SC wants govt to revisit LNG deal

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Kartik » 29 Apr 2010 11:22

Pakistan has agreed to allow US inspectors to be based on a PAF base to make sure that sophisticated avionics on board the F-16 Block 52s are not in any way tampered with or removed..obviously they fear that these avionics will be given to the Chinese to reverse engineer.

link

Under agreements connected to Pakistan's purchase of 18 F-16s scheduled for staggered delivery this year, a U.S. military team must be on hand to ensure that sophisticated, top-of-the-line avionics, weapons and data systems aboard the aircraft remain secure. The planes, which for the first time will allow Pakistan to conduct nighttime air operations, are far more advanced than the 30-year-old U.S. aircraft that are the current air force mainstay.

They will be housed at Shahbaz air base in south-central Pakistan, one of three bases where Pakistan allowed limited U.S. use for several years after the 2001 beginning of the war in Afghanistan. Far from advertising the arrival of a new contingent of Americans at Shahbaz, the Pakistani military is building a cloistered facility to house them amid some 5,000 of its own troops that will occupy the newly expanded base. Pakistani and U.S. military and intelligence officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to do so on the record.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Nihat » 29 Apr 2010 13:21



Pak moves 100,000 troops away from India border

Pakistan has moved 100,000 troops from its borders with India to bolster its campaign against the Taliban and other militants on its restive border with Afghanistan, the Pentagon [ Images ] said on Thursday.

The mass shifting of troops is an acknowledgement of the fact that terrorism and internal insurgency were posing more threat to Pakistan now, the Pentagon said in a report to the United States Congress.


http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/apr/ ... border.htm


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby neerajb » 30 Apr 2010 19:17

Tushar wrote:Only difference is that the Indian economy is 11 times smaller than that of the United States, while our defence budget is 25 times smaller. Neither can we procure enough number or Brahmos or anything similar in enough numbers to reduce our dependancy on tanks and artillery. Maybe in 50 years we can consider this, but certainly not now.

The United States can purchase and develop these platforms relatively easily, while the Indians cannot.


Goals of the type of conflict that we see with Pak (response to terrorist attack on indian soil) are not total destruction of Pak or Paki terrorist infrastructure but to give a fitting reply to them so that they'll have to think twice before any future misadventure. Here we are forgetting the value of propaganda which far outweighs the tactical gains out of any such move by India.

During 1971 war, 57mm rocket attacks on Governor house achieved the defeat of Pakistan and surrender of 90000 pakistani troops. Just three Osa missile boats caused mayhem in Karachi and to this day we celebrate 4 Dec as Navy day.

In India's context, Brahmos is a trump card which can prove to be a game changer and with airborne/submarine based/shipbased landattack versions it can cripple Pak with least harm to Indian forces. Development of Nirbhay is another shot in the arm for India.

Cheers....

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Avinash R » 30 Apr 2010 23:36

US to provide two helicopters to Pakistan
Islamabad: The United States on Friday announced that it will provide two helicopters to boost the Pakistani military's counter-insurgency efforts.

The US will purchase the two Bell 412 enhanced performance utility transport helicopters, valued at 24 million dollars, to support Pakistan's counter-insurgency operations.

The US will also provide spare parts, special tools and other equipment worth 20 million dollar to support the aircraft, said a statement from the American embassy.
...
In the past three years, US civil and security assistance to Pakistan has totalled over four billion dollars.

The aid has included fourteen F-16 fighter aircraft, ten Mi-17 helicopters, more than 450 vehicles for Pakistan's Frontier Corps, hundreds of night vision goggles and thousands of protective vests.

The US has also provided training for over 370 Pakistani military officers in a wide range of leadership and development programmes covering topics like counter-terrorism and intelligence.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby JimmyJ » 02 May 2010 17:34

US turns focus to Pakistan’s conventional defence


“We must continue to reassure Pakistan that as it combats the terrorist threat, it is not exposing itself to increased risk along its eastern border,” said Under Secretary of Defence for Policy Michele Flournoy while explaining why the United States needed to strengthen Islamabad’s conventional defence systems as well.

“Although extremist attacks have led to the repositioning of substantial Pakistani forces, Pakistan’s strategic concerns about India remain pre-eminent.”


I doubt whether anyone posted the question whether America would withdraw from the MMRCA, C-130J, P-8i, the new howister deal etc with India to alleviate the threat that Pakistan faces on the eastern border.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 02 May 2010 17:53

The aid has included fourteen F-16 fighter aircraft, ten Mi-17 helicopters, more than 450 vehicles for Pakistan's Frontier Corps, hundreds of night vision goggles and thousands of protective vests.

US provided Mi-17s as aid? :-?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Debal » 02 May 2010 19:23

Profits of arms sales to India will be donated to Paki by uncle.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rahul M » 02 May 2010 19:31

^^^
precisely. we should not be subsidising paki armed forces with our hard earned money.

sum wrote:
The aid has included fourteen F-16 fighter aircraft, ten Mi-17 helicopters, more than 450 vehicles for Pakistan's Frontier Corps, hundreds of night vision goggles and thousands of protective vests.

US provided Mi-17s as aid? :-?

yep, apparently the pakis are not satisfied with this batch after one of them crashed (IIRC). they do use the Mi-17 from before, although I'm sure you know that.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 02 May 2010 21:53

yep, apparently the pakis are not satisfied with this batch after one of them crashed (IIRC). they do use the Mi-17 from before, although I'm sure you know that.

Yup...aware of that fact but why would Unkil donate Ruski maal to the Pakis?

This is like Russia donating F-16s to <add ex-soviet republic /Ruski ally> or something...

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Sayak » 03 May 2010 05:44

Our problem is we are acting like good boys and we want to be rewarded for this. USA will never reward the good boys, just look at China and Russia do they care if USA is pleased about something?? I know we are from that stage but do things that USA does not like and where we benefit too, voting against sanctions against Iran was a good start. Stop trying to be good boys you will never be rewarded for it by USA. Maybe have further meeting with BRIC nations of trade in domestic currencies, and make the two MRCA American planes the first ones out, the C-17 deal is more than enough money to send to a nation that loves our enemy and showers them with money and weapons.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shukla » 03 May 2010 18:43

Great.. train the paki pilots... grrr :x

Pakistani pilots complete fighter jet training in the US

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 03 May 2010 20:15

Everything they learnt about the IAF from the joint exercises will be taught

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rahul M » 03 May 2010 20:55

sum wrote:
yep, apparently the pakis are not satisfied with this batch after one of them crashed (IIRC). they do use the Mi-17 from before, although I'm sure you know that.

Yup...aware of that fact but why would Unkil donate Ruski maal to the Pakis?

This is like Russia donating F-16s to <add ex-soviet republic /Ruski ally> or something...

a) it's cheap, b) pakis already use it. if they opted for a western equivalent they couldn't have bought one complete helo at the same price. :D

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby parshuram » 03 May 2010 22:27

It is high time unkil need to be told that enough is enough in past six months pakistanis are getting arms like bananas . Even a mullah in Peshawar knows that what Taliban Pakistan is going to fight with F -16's ,P-3's and cobras. It is and should be considered as anti indian as these are handed as baksheesh for mercinary Pakistani army.it is like US attacked Iraq for WMDS and not for oil

US need to be told firmly that indian intrests are at stake.weapons from europe should be procurers at swift pace with maximum emphasis towards indegenisation

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Sayak » 04 May 2010 02:16

USA aid to Pakistan has increased to the point where Pakistan is now the second highest recipient after Israel. Telling USA will not do much with them playing dumb and stupid answers like they need it for WOT. USA has a clear anti -Indian agenda and it does not take much to figure this out, best thing we can do is limit our interaction and keep them out of our strategic areas and nuclear deals.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rahul M » 04 May 2010 07:04

even Ajai Shukla is using pinglish ! :rotfl:

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/05/ ... -well.html

Pakistan Army: aal is not well

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Anujan » 04 May 2010 08:55

G Parthasarathy in WSJ. The article touches on many things. The relevant part to this dhaaga is:

Special Representative Richard Holbrooke thereafter reportedly advised the Chinese to play a more proactive role in expanding their arms transfers to Pakistan.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 04 May 2010 10:02

X-post:
sum wrote:From Orbat:
Third Pakistan strike corps? Reader Avik B. tells us about claims making the rounds of the blogs that Pakistan is to set up a third strike corps, either with 480 T-84 Ukraine or with US tanks if the US agrees. Dr. Ayesha Siddiqui, a Pakistani academic and defense expert, says when General Kayani visited Washington last month, he presented a 56-page list of military equipment, including equipment for a third strike corps. US has no problems with selling reconditioned M-113s and M-109s, but we wonder if US will okay transfer of M-1s because the Indians would get very upset over that. The Ukraine tank deal sounds more probable to us.


If the US donates M1's by chance, notice how the IA will suddenly start singing praises of Arjun and start inducting 100s at a time every year!!!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Mayuresh » 04 May 2010 10:26

The US has brought along its Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigate for the Indo-US Naval exercizes in Malabar (Source - Livefist: http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/05/ph ... labar.html). This is thes same class of which 6 frigates shall be gifted to TSPakistan. Hope we have our kilos trailing the ship to capture every noise (may be a good idea for the kilos to ID the noise and keep away from them during a war as these warships were desgned specially for anti-submarine roles, says wiki) and also have radars trained to capture its radar signature. Hope the Brahmos can make short work of these frigates.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Craig Alpert » 05 May 2010 07:53

Pak wargames to blunt India's strategy
NEW DELHI: Even as Indian Army refines its 'pro-active' war strategy to mobilise fast and strike hard across the border under the 'cold start' doctrine, Pakistan army is practising its own swift response to counter such multiple offensive thrusts into its territory.

While the massive Indian 'Yodha Shakti' and Pakistani 'Azm-e-Nau-III' (New Resolve) wargames are not exactly being conducted eyeball-to-eyeball across the border, both high-voltage exercises with around 50,000 troops each have entered their final phase this week.

Indian watchers tracking the Azm-e-Nau exercise say Pakistan is validating its "new war-fighting concept", which primarily seeks to "blunt and defeat" India's cold start strategy, as also test its new weaponry, reconnaissance and early-warning capabilities.

Though an "extremely professional" 5.2-lakh force, Pakistan army seems to be slightly rattled by the 11-lakh strong Indian Army's cold start concept. "They are trying different manoeuvres, first in the southern sector and now in the northern one, to counter the multiple thrusts India may launch in the event of a war," said a senior officer.

It's not that the two countries are going to war anytime soon but militaries perforce have to factor in worst-case scenarios, drafting doctrines to deal with them and then validating them through mock battles in realistic settings.

Indian Army's gameplan is to launch self-contained and highly-mobile 'battle-groups' — with Russian-origin T-90S tanks and upgraded T-72 M1 tanks at their core — for strikes across the border within 96 hours, as reported by TOI earlier.

"The aim is to hit fast and hit hard... and keep the enemy guessing," said the officer. This cold start doctrine took shape after it took almost 30 days to mobilise troops on a large scale for Operation Parakram following the December 2001 terrorist attack on Parliament.

The 'Yodha Shakti' wargames in the blistering heat of Thar Desert, with temperatures touching 50 degrees celsius, for instance, are centred around swift offensive manoeuvres by "mission-oriented battle-groups" with airborne forces and lethal firepower "to rapidly dominate the entire spectrum of battlespace".

Army chief General V K Singh will review the exercise on May 8, in which the Mathura-based 1 Corps, one of the three principal 'strike' formations, has come together with formations drawn from places like Babina, Patiala, Hissar and Allahabad.

Incidentally, the Army is now also revising its doctrine to effectively meet the challenges of a possible 'two-front war' with China and Pakistan, as also deal with asymmetric and fourth-generation warfare and enhance strategic reach and joint operations with IAF and Navy, as reported earlier.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Singha » 05 May 2010 10:03

the associated print article has a photo of certain items displayed in the desert.
- one al-zarrar tank
- one RBS70 launcher on M113
- one LORROS type mast mounted EO type sight on a truck which I had not seen before (might be some new acquisition for recce units)
- one comms/C&C trailer type truck

I think india should go ahead and invest in 3 more armour corps plus the mountain strike corps already slated. for a army of our size,
3 strike corps cannot be a holy grail. armour is expensive and having to match india in armour and such logistics heavy units ensures
expenditure of money that could be used in terrorism and economic recovery.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Singha » 05 May 2010 11:12

http://chinadefense.xinjunshi.com/China ... y/125.html

Pakistan's new tank near China 99G

According to the Russian armored vehicles, net October 9 reported that Pakistan's military plans for its fleet of "Ali Vivienne" main battle tank to conduct a comprehensive improvement, including the installation of more sophisticated fire control systems, and optoelectronic countermeasures systems. Pakistani military experts believe that the move will significantly upgrade the tank first-hit targets.


It is learned that, in order to enhance "Ali Vivienne" tank night fighting capabilities, the Palestinian side will install the French Sagem company's third-generation thermal imaging discussion. In addition, the tank main guns of the firing rate would be raised.

In addition, the Pakistani military also plans to Ukraine Order "VARTA" type optoelectronic countermeasures devices (from Russian "curtain" system evolved). After the installation of the equipment can significantly enhance the tank in the event of a half-led guided weapons to attack the enemy when the survival rate.

Should be noted that the Russian side has suggested India to buy Russian-made tanks for the military installation of the "curtain" system, but it was the latter refused.

At the same time, taking into account the summer desert areas in Pakistan when the surface temperature may reach 50 degrees Celsius, Pakistani military also plans to "Ali Vivienne" tank installation of high efficiency air conditioning. In addition, tanks installed within the display system will also be replaced.

In addition to improving the existing fleet of tanks, the Palestinians also in the process develop a new generation of "Ali Vivienne II" main battle tanks. New tanks will be equipped with more powerful main gun fire, while defense capability will be more complete. Expect, "Ali Vivienne II" will be closer to China in the form of 99G. In addition, "Ali LEADER II" of the mobility will also be stronger, its engine power to reach 1500 hp.

"Ali Vivienne" is Pakistan's help in China and Ukraine developed a more advanced main battle tank, based on the former Soviet Union developed T-72. The tank full weight 48 tons, member 3, the main weapons include a 125 mm smoothbore gun, one 12.7 mm and a 7.62 mm caliber machine gun.

The tank fitted with a 1,200-horsepower power system of Ukraine 6TD-2 engines, a maximum speed of 70 km / h, and sustainable travel 400 kilometers. It is said that at present, "Ali Vivienne" tank production has reached 300.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby arun » 05 May 2010 12:10

The “ Jihad-fi-Sabilillah” or translated “Jihad in the path of Allah” part of the motto of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have leaked across service lines and indoctrinated the offspring of those who served into attempting to commit acts of Jihad half way across the world.

Would be Pakistani descent car bomber of New York’s Times Square, Faisal Shahzad’s father Baharul Haq is a retired Air Vice Marshal of the Air Force of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and went on to serve as the head of the Islamic Republic’s Civil Aviation Authority:

NY bomber's father big shot in Pak military

The would be Pakistani origin Times Square car bomber’s connections to the top levels of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan does not end there. Faisal Shahzad was the nephew of Major General (Retd) Tajul Haq who served as the Inspector General of Frontier Corps (IGFC):

Faisal Shahzad’s father vacates Peshawar house

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shukla » 07 May 2010 14:10

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Last edited by SSridhar on 07 May 2010 17:11, edited 1 time in total.
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