Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

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Mahendra
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Mahendra » 30 May 2010 22:57

The pits is when Ass-Saf Kiyanahi salutes the B-52 carpet bombing Pindi GHQ in one such live exercise. By the looks of it this is very much a possibility

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 31 May 2010 01:33

Strike simulation on POK and that too after 'Mumbai attacks ', what a joke .

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Rahul Shukla » 02 Jun 2010 07:07

P3C Orion Aircraft inducted into Pakistan Navy (Daily Times)

KARACHI: The induction ceremony of two modified P3C Orion aircraft acquired from the US was held at the Pakistan Navy Base Mehran on Tuesday.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sathyaC » 02 Jun 2010 07:47

Rahul Shukla wrote:P3C Orion Aircraft inducted into Pakistan Navy (Daily Times)

KARACHI: The induction ceremony of two modified P3C Orion aircraft acquired from the US was held at the Pakistan Navy Base Mehran on Tuesday.


They give the P3 to them and ask us to sign X Y Z crap agreement for the Pi8

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sathyaC » 02 Jun 2010 07:56

Fc-1 aka JF-17 powered by WS-13 engine carries Taxi Trials
http://idrw.org/?p=1859
According to Chinese media ,FC-1 (local Chinese name for JF-17) has recently carried out successful taxi trials powered by a Chinese made WS-13 engine ,currently first batch of 40 aircraft which will be supplied to Pakistan are powered by Russian Klimov RD-93B turbofans, while WS-13 has 10% greater thrust but is also having Quality issues with the turbine blades . Next batch of JF-17 which will be build in Pakistan will have this Chinese engine and same will be offered to export market , Chinese are already working on an improved engine which again will have further thrust .

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 02 Jun 2010 11:42

sathyaC wrote:They give the P3 to them and ask us to sign X Y Z crap agreement for the Pi8

What makes you think they haven't signed it? They're like horny whores who'll sign blindfolded on anything as long as they get the weapon in the end.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Craig Alpert » 03 Jun 2010 06:16


SSridhar
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby SSridhar » 05 Jun 2010 18:29

Pakistan increases defence budget by 17% to USD 5 B
Pakistan raised its spending on defence by 17 per cent to 442.2 billion rupees ($5.18 billion) for the 2010/11 fiscal year (July-June), according to an official budget document.


This is over and above the goodies that it gets from the US free or under throwaway prices and the Chinese. Also, Pakistani budgets on defence hide more than they reveal. It is conceivable that a substantial amount is accounted for under other benign headings. From past experience, one can safely assume 8% of GDP to be allocated to Defence. In the period between circa 1970-2000, Pakistan’s defence expenditure varied between 4% and 9%.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby naird » 10 Jun 2010 12:14

JF 17 Participating at Farnborough !!!

Have to admit, they (Chinese + Pak) are doing good for themselves. Below links are from AFM, they have done a write up on JF17 participation at Farnborough.

http://i50.tinypic.com/99q73q.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/kcz29z.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/nyaexk.jpg

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sum » 10 Jun 2010 12:21

IED mubarak outside Pak Navy office in karachi...

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2010 13:53

the last link says no data fusion between the swedish and chinese awacs. so it looks like will be deployed in different zones like north pakistan and south pakistan.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 10 Jun 2010 14:24

Singha sir, there are many links that say there is no link between the Tomahawk and Babur. And no link between the Shaheens and Chinese ping pong dongs

JMT

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby marimuthu » 10 Jun 2010 14:51

Dmurphy wrote:Singha sir, there are many links that say there is no link between the Tomahawk and Babur. And no link between the Shaheens and Chinese ping pong dongs

JMT



Dmurphy, What Singha said is that there is no data link between Sweden Awacs and chinese Awacs which the pakis are using, which means that there is no inter-interoperability between them. He is not talking about the other 'link', which obviously exists

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ajit_tr » 12 Jun 2010 14:56

Pakistan begins submarine procurement talks with China

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/j ... _1_n.shtml

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2010 15:25

likely the Yuan class. if they run with chinese boats, means the u214 deal could have proven too expensive.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby sarang » 12 Jun 2010 15:47

thank you, Pakistan
O.K. Mister Prime Minister now we can start talks for 2nd sub.
:evil:

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Jun 2010 16:23

Sarang-> lets atleast get the Scorpene deal working before taking on a 2nd line of subs

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Craig Alpert » 13 Jun 2010 08:27


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Gagan » 13 Jun 2010 09:48

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan increases defence budget by 17% to USD 5 B
Pakistan raised its spending on defence by 17 per cent to 442.2 billion rupees ($5.18 billion) for the 2010/11 fiscal year (July-June), according to an official budget document.

For comparision, I quote another statistic:
The State Domestic Product of the state of Delhi - India's National Capital Territory
With an estimated net State Domestic Product (FY 2007) of Rs. 1,182 billion (US$24.5 billion) in nominal terms and Rs. 3,364 billion (US$69.8 billion) in PPP terms

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Brando » 13 Jun 2010 10:13

^^ That isn't the right way of looking at it!

They still have $5.2 billion to spend on "defense", i.e trying to counter India and supporting terrorism. Despite being on the brink of destitution, they still are capable of spending so much money. We need to expedite their bankruptcy by many fold.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Philip » 13 Jun 2010 13:44

The deal could be for a lease too of a PLAN nuclear sub.Pak is finding it dififcult to acquir European subs fortwo reasons.The on-going French scandal over kickbacks for the Agostas and the German reluctance to sell Pak subs while it supports the Taliban in Af-Pak detrimental to NATO/German forces there,plus the Germans trying to sell more U-boats to India.

EXcerpt:
Non-Subscriber Extract
Pakistan begins submarine procurement talks with China

By Farhan Bokhari
11 June 2010

China's vice-president, Zheng Dejiang, met with civil and military leaders in Pakistan on 9-10 June in a visit surrounded by reports of a major new defence deal under discussion that would see Pakistan buying at least three Chinese submarines.

Speaking to Jane's on 9 June, a senior Pakistani government official said the Pakistan Navy began discussions with "the Chinese authorities last month for an eventual submarine deal" for up to three or four boats, but declined to specify the types or terms under discussion.

China has a long history of helping Pakistan overcome shortages of key military hardware, notably the hardware it was denied by the Western world following sanctions imposed from 1990 in response to Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme.

The Pakistani government official who spoke to Jane's on 9 June said that it was vital for the navy to acquire more submarines to offset "the pressure we will definitely come under" due to the rapid expansion of India's naval capability. "Our Chinese brothers have always come to our help and we are asking them for assistance once again," he said.

Although neither China nor Pakistan have ever publicly revealed the terms of their past financial arrangements, defence analysts say that China continues to offer long-term loans to Pakistan on concessional terms, allowing the country to continue with its military hardware purchases.


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby kittoo » 13 Jun 2010 14:16

^^Nuke Sub?????? :eek: :eek:
Damn! If these developments spur deserved proportional developments here, I dont have much problem. But I doubt that will be the case. :( :(

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Srivastav » 14 Jun 2010 12:39

I have no idea if this is true or not but FWIW

US to ensure Pak won't use F-16s against India

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jun/ ... -india.htm

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Austin » 14 Jun 2010 12:45

Well I guess it comes with a Kill switch :)

So US sells F-16 to Pakistan that cannot be used against India and then US sells MMRCA to India that cannot be used against Pakistan thats the new arrangement by Obama ?

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Khalsa » 14 Jun 2010 14:19

Did Malayasia not have similar issues with their F-18s because they suddenly realised that their targeting software could not never set a way point or target A point on the tiny little island of Singapore for example.

Anyway give it enough time and motivation and the human brain can over come anything. Both these air forces have shown termendous skills at that..... If we could raise a Bomber Squadron in the 50's out of World War II scrap metal, the Pakistani convert their current F-16s A (a non nuclear certified a/c) and make them nuclear capable then why can't they break the kill switch (software or hardware) .... if such a thing exists in those a/c.

Don't bet your money on the kill switch on saving your butt when the F-16s intrude over rajasthan and punjab ..... plan on more counter action and interdiction !!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Gagan » 14 Jun 2010 14:41

Srivastav wrote:I have no idea if this is true or not but FWIW

US to ensure Pak won't use F-16s against India

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jun/ ... -india.htm

GPS based geographical boundries. Altitude restrictions. Maneuver restrictions - no toss dropping of hydrogen sulphide bums to pollute the atmosphere.

All this with the caveat that MRCA goes to massa. Then those F-16s won't be able to lock onto IAF F-18s also

I think the AMRAAMS with the pakis are already compromised.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 14 Jun 2010 15:11

^ we know they are beggars ,but ive seen few beggars with a little self respect,more than a yindoo-banya.. of course they wont let that happen. these weapons will be tweaked ..

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Multatuli » 14 Jun 2010 15:34

Anyway give it enough time and motivation and the human brain can over come anything. Both these air forces have shown termendous skills at that..... If we could raise a Bomber Squadron in the 50's out of World War II scrap metal, the Pakistani convert their current F-16s A (a non nuclear certified a/c) and make them nuclear capable then why can't they break the kill switch (software or hardware) .... if such a thing exists in those a/c
.

If it's software, then I am sure Paki's can patch the code, in case it's hardware, it would be difficult to determine which circuit(s) contain the trojan. Any investigation would destroy the hardware.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Dmurphy » 14 Jun 2010 15:50

kittoo wrote:^^Nuke Sub?????? :eek: :eek:
Damn! If these developments spur deserved proportional developments here, I dont have much problem. But I doubt that will be the case. :( :(

I doubt if its N-sub deal. This could be more a contingency plan incase the HDW deal falls through.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Craig Alpert » 15 Jun 2010 01:16


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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shukla » 15 Jun 2010 19:26



Common sense prevails..

U.S. to object to China-Pakistan nuclear reactor deal
The deal is expected to be discussed next week at a meeting in New Zealand of the 46-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), which monitors such transactions. Experts had said it appears to be a violation of international guidelines forbidding nuclear exports to countries that have not signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty or do not have international safeguards on reactors. Pakistan has not signed the treaty.

China has suggested that the sale is grandfathered from before it joined the NSG in 2004, because it was completing work on two earlier reactors for Pakistan at the time. But U.S. officials disagree.

"Additional nuclear cooperation with Pakistan beyond those specific projects that were grandfathered in 2004 would require consensus approval" by the NSG, a U.S. official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity, "which we believe is extremely unlikely." State Department spokesman Gordon DuGuid said the U.S. government "has reiterated to the Chinese government that the United States expects Beijing to cooperate with Pakistan in ways consistent with Chinese nonproliferation obligations."

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ajit_tr » 17 Jun 2010 04:11

Pakistan wants combat copters
U.S. asked to supply arms for 'silent surge' against terrorists

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... rs/?page=3


But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby arun » 17 Jun 2010 21:23

X Posted.

Land of the impure

Don’t blame the army for all Pakistan’s problems. Just most of them

Jun 17th 2010

THREE score years and a bit after its founding, Pakistan—which means land of the pure—still struggles to look like a nation. Economically backward, politically stunted and terrorised by religious extremists, it would be enough to make anyone nervous, even if it did not have nuclear weapons. For these shortcomings, most of the blame should be laid at the door of the army, which claims, more than any other institution, to embody nationhood. Grossly unfair? If the army stood before one of its own tribunals, the charge sheet would surely run as follows:

One, a taste for military adventurism on its “eastern front” against giant India, which has undermined security, not enhanced it. ………………….

Two, endangering the state’s existence by making common cause with jihadism. …………………..

Three, the armed forces have undermined democratic institutions. ………………

The costs go beyond any democratic deficit. Pakistan’s economic and social development have also been stunted, as the army has sucked up resources and thwarted growth. …………………

The Economist

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Samay » 17 Jun 2010 23:12

ajit_tr wrote:Pakistan wants combat copters
U.S. asked to supply arms for 'silent surge' against terrorists

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... rs/?page=3


But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

nothing stops them from getting anything conventional , except high end technology weapons
Last edited by Samay on 18 Jun 2010 17:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Craig Alpert » 18 Jun 2010 03:59

Pakistan is Seeking AH-1W and Apache-64 D Attack Hhelicopters
Image
Pakistan is seeking advanced U.S. attack helicopters and other weapons as part of a comprehensive arms package to bolster preparations for what its military is calling a "silent surge" of more than 100,000 troops into the mountain lairs of al Qaeda's senior leadership in the country's Northwest Frontier Province.The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

As is this wasn't enough, look at the freaking comments section and all the INDIA bashing, so paranoid are the pakis, they don't even show the original comments!!!!

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby ajit_tr » 18 Jun 2010 04:16

Craig Alpert wrote:Pakistan is Seeking AH-1W and Apache-64 D Attack Hhelicopters
Image
Pakistan is seeking advanced U.S. attack helicopters and other weapons as part of a comprehensive arms package to bolster preparations for what its military is calling a "silent surge" of more than 100,000 troops into the mountain lairs of al Qaeda's senior leadership in the country's Northwest Frontier Province.The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

As is this wasn't enough, look at the freaking comments section and all the INDIA bashing, so paranoid are the pakis, they don't even show the original comments!!!!
Two things making them paranoid:
1. Successful launch of arihant last year.Reaction of which we saw their new inquiry into the acquisition of subs from china.
2. Successful test flight of LCH which is making them to demand Apache attack chopper from usa.

Wait until india will be on the verge of acquiring PAK-FA then they will demand f-22 and JSF from usa.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shukla » 18 Jun 2010 16:59



Thats a bit worrying..especially at a time when the apache is under trials for IAF..

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby Sanku » 18 Jun 2010 17:17

shukla wrote:


Thats a bit worrying..especially at a time when the apache is under trials for IAF..


For Boeing yes it is. For India, hopefully US will display some tactical brilliance a la Paki's such that we can be saved from the "door darishta" of our current leaders.

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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Postby shukla » 18 Jun 2010 17:37

Sanku wrote:For Boeing yes it is. For India, hopefully US will display some tactical brilliance a la Paki's such that we can be saved from the "door darishta" of our current leaders.


Well Boeing for sure..(as with LM in mmrca) but like you said hope our babus have the foresight to see sign of things to come.. or we'd soon be watching an IAF apache Vs PAF apache or a PAF F-16 Vs IAF F-16..



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