Indian Missile Technology Discussion

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 14 Jun 2008 17:51

'Sudarsana chakra' for Army'
At last the secret is out.

One of my friend is associated with this project.

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 14 Jun 2008 17:56

Does this have anything to do with Avtaar or hypersonic vehicle?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 16 Jun 2008 09:15

Govt allots Rs2,500 cr for Agni-V

NEW DELHI :The Union government has sanctioned Rs2,500 crore for developing the country’s most ambitious missile, a nuclear-capable Agni-V with a range of 5,000 kilometres — one step short of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).

Agni V is expected to emerge as a credible key nuclear delivery weapon in about seven years time.

Sources said a high-level committee headed by Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh sanctioned the budget for Agni-V, the biggest indigenous single missile project, a few days ago.

Sources indicate, as reported earlier by DNA, the government is not willing to consider development of a full-fledged ICBM that has a range of over 8,000 kilometres.

Concerns about international pressure are holding India back from developing an ICBM. Given India’s space capabilities and success in developing launch vehicles, it is no technological challenge for India to develop a full-fledged ICBM.

Agni-V should be ready for test flights in “about four years,” said a dependable source. DRDO would primarily add one more stage to the two-stage Agni-III missile for creating Agni-V and improve upon its other systems. Agni-V would be a three-stage Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM) with solid propellants.
It would have a range of 5,000 kilometres, according to the DRDO’s notification given for political approval.

The design of Agni-V is expected to be ready in about two years, and the first test could be anytime in three to four years.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 16 Jun 2008 10:36

Venkarl wrote:
kit wrote:What about uv emissions from the rocket exhaust plume .. any way to mask that.Early warning satellites use detectors for this spectrum
Don't know about UV emissions but the space based IR sats can detect the bright plume of an incoming ballistic long range missile in its boost phase, during the first few minutes of flight. these sats have a scanning array of sensors that views a particular location only every 10 seconds. these sats can watch a missile continuously, and will therefore be able to provide considerably better position, orientation, and speed information.

I heard that ground based X Band radars does not has the capability of tracking the missile continuously....but the improvised system will have this tracking feature too...

we should have a missile defense theater like this

http://sharonweinberger.com/wp-content/ ... ecture.jpg

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Jun 2008 02:28

It would have a range of 5,000 kilometres

There should be a special prize for building a 3 stage, 2 m diameter, solid fuel rocket that only flies 5000 km.

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 17 Jun 2008 02:48

or a missile the size and weight of Topol-M but only flies 3500 km?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 17 Jun 2008 02:57

Gerard wrote:
It would have a range of 5,000 kilometres
There should be a special prize for building a 3 stage, 2 m diameter, solid fuel rocket that only flies 5000 km.

Indeed there is a special prize, yet more 2500 Cr funding for missile that now travels an extra 500 kms to 5500 KMs called Angi-VI.

3 drdo tests later, 5 user acceptance tests later, lots of printed paper later, lots of tequila in celebrations later, yet another round of monies being sanctioned for your favorite agni-XX series.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Jun 2008 10:47

There should be a special prize for building a 3 stage, 2 m diameter, solid fuel rocket that only flies 5000 km.

The yindoos and their rope tricks!!!!!

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 20 Jun 2008 01:54

Air Force wants DRDL to refine Akash missile

Air Force wants DRDL to refine Akash missile

Ravi Sharma

BANGALORE: Three months ago an order from the Air Force for a substantial number of the Akash medium range, surface-to-air missile (SAM) system seemed just a few bureaucratic signatures away.

However, with the Air Force communicating to the Defence Ministry that the missile does not, in its present version, meet some critical operating requirements, the acquisition process could be longer than expected.

The all-weather Akash, developed by the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) is part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme. In the same class as the U.S.’ Patriot, Israel’s Barak and the U.K.’s SAM, the 5.78 metre long, 700 kg Akash can destroy targets up to 25 km away.

A senior official in the Ministry told The Hindu that the Air Force had asked that certain technical improvements be incorporated in the Akash before the missile system is ordered in substantial numbers. According to the Air Force, as compared to the Akash, contemporary surface-to-air missiles were smaller, lighter, had a longer range and were more manoeuvrable. The Akash system also requires a large number of personnel to man it.

Further, the Air Force is particularly apprehensive about the missile’s capability to intercept low level targets, viz below 500 metres. Though the Air Force declared the Akash’s 10-day user trials last December 2007 as successful, they are asking that the DRDL refine the missile and come up with something that is technologically more contemporary.

Aware of the Air Force’s stand, Chief Controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation Prahlada, said talks were on between the Air Force and the DRDO and that an order of two squadrons would initially be placed.

“The Air Force is saying that low altitude intercepts were not demonstrated. But how can we demonstrate low altitude intercepts over the sea? We will demonstrate this over the land. But first let them place an order,” he said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jun 2008 02:08

So Akash is now SDRE! The Arjun bug has bit the IAF too.

Ananth · Post by **Ananth** » 20 Jun 2008 02:36

ramana wrote:So Akash is now SDRE! The Arjun bug has bit the IAF too.

I believe specs are being readied for Akash Mk.2 Good no problem. The more the IAF gets addicted to infinite customization the better. That is the Achilles heel of import lobby.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 20 Jun 2008 02:44

Ananth wrote:
ramana wrote:So Akash is now SDRE! The Arjun bug has bit the IAF too.
I believe specs are being readied for Akash Mk.2 Good no problem. The more the IAF gets addicted to infinite customization the better. That is the Achilles heel of import lobby.

Yeah, that's nice. But I think what Ramana was referring to was that the fate of the Akash is going along similar lines as the Arjun. First the IAF says they need these improvements they saw in Jane's and then when the developers try to fit those requirements, the IAF says the delay in induction has caused them to go for imported stuff. After that the developers say they have fitted the improvements and then the above cycle repeats again.

This country's armed forces don't deserve the time and effort and experience of the DRDO scientists.

-Vivek

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 20 Jun 2008 10:06

Hey Guys,

Hows everyone going???

On a different note, now that ISRO and Brahmos have a tie-up. It should let some interesting developments. I am aware that during the cold war "SAGI" which was/is the central institute for aeronautical research and developments handed over R&D to sukhoi and mig to be implemented into future designs e.g. include (mig 21, 23, 25 etc....)

My point is that now ISRO is roped in can they work on producing lighter version of brahmos. Also is there any possibility that they can help produce fuel with higher calorific value, thus might need lesser fuel (the brahmos needs a bucket load of fuel to reach mach 2.5). The composites research that has been carried out with A III and ISRO could also be implemented.

I am quite aware that my post might be incomprehensive, but please bear with me its hard to post when at work.

Regards

Anand.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 20 Jun 2008 11:13

Anand Barve wrote:Hey Guys,

Hows everyone going???

On a different note, now that ISRO and Brahmos have a tie-up. It should let some interesting developments. I am aware that during the cold war "SAGI" which was/is the central institute for aeronautical research and developments handed over R&D to sukhoi and mig to be implemented into future designs e.g. include (mig 21, 23, 25 etc....)

My point is that now ISRO is roped in can they work on producing lighter version of brahmos. Also is there any possibility that they can help produce fuel with higher calorific value, thus might need lesser fuel (the brahmos needs a bucket load of fuel to reach mach 2.5). The composites research that has been carried out with A III and ISRO could also be implemented.

I am quite aware that my post might be incomprehensive, but please bear with me its hard to post when at work.

Regards

Anand.

There is no "technical cooperation" kind of tieup between ISRO & Brahmos.. it is an agreement between ISRO and a Brahmos 'unit'. The erstwhile Keltec is a 'porduction' unit for Brahmos and will make components for ISRO also.
No R&D tieup between ISRO & Brahmos..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jun 2008 19:35

Rye is right. Please dont mix apples and oranges and get punch. As I pointed out earlier some dork PR guy at former KELTRON tried to impress public that ISRO awarded them a contract when it was an ongoing work not new work to a facility now taken over by the new owners.

It was precisely this point of misperception that I was making in my earlier posts. If folks on BR can make it then what about those in dupleecity?

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 20 Jun 2008 19:50

India, Russia develop airborne supersonic cruise missile

The Russian-Indian BrahMos Aerospace joint venture has finished the development of the airborne version of an advanced supersonic missile, the company's managing director has said.

Established in 1998, BrahMos Aerospace designs, produces, and markets supersonic missiles, whose sea-based and land-based versions have been successfully tested and put into service with the Indian Army and Navy.

"For the airborne version...we had to reduce the mass of the missile and to ensure aerodynamic stability after its separation from the aircraft. The air-launched platform has its own initial speed during the launch of the missile, so we have reduced the size of the booster. Now the missile is ready," Sivathanu Pillai told RIA Novosti in an exclusive interview.

The BrahMos missile has a range of 180 miles (290 kms) and can carry a conventional warhead of up to 660 pounds. It can hit surface targets while flying at an altitude as low as 10 meters (30 feet) and at a speed of Mach 2.8, which is about three times faster than the U.S.-made subsonic Tomahawk cruise missile.

The official said the Indian Air Force had chosen SU-30 MKI Flanker-H multirole fighter as a trial platform for the missile.

"We have a schedule for flight trials, but progress has slowed down, as Russia's Sukhoi Design Bureau has its own priority for fifth generation aircraft," Pillai said.

India is planning to produce at least 140 Su-30MKI fighters by 2014 under a Russian license with full technology transfer.

Experts estimate that India might purchase up to 1,000 BrahMos missiles for its Armed Forces in the next decade, and export 2,000 to third countries during the same period.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080620/111457741.html

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jun 2008 23:32

exciting news on A2S Brahmos., with a near 300km range hitting chinpak surface targets perhaps marks off enough maturity on the MKI radar. BTW, is there a progress on ibris that is supposed to be an enhanced ranged one that would synch up with brahmos integration? We might have to advance MKI fcr range to 400kms or enough to support brahmos.

perhaps, both brahmos and a2a ks172 could be integrated in one multi mode test with the new radar for MKI.

SShah · Post by **SShah** » 21 Jun 2008 00:07

I hope this air launched version of Brhamos is scalable & of course light enough so that it can carried by most of the current and future platforms i.e. MKIs, MIG-29s/MIG-29Ks, MIG-27s, Mirages, New Boeing P8is, Tu's and IL's and by also all Tejas variants. Range could still be a little problem (especially with Chikoms). But I've always raised this question here at various BR threads-- Why can't se push a controled version to Taiwan? When Chicoms are sharing all of their under wears with Pukees.

Ananth · Post by **Ananth** » 21 Jun 2008 01:49

SShah wrote:Why can't se push a controled version to Taiwan? When Chicoms are sharing all of their under wears with Pukees.

Pakis are reflectively anti-India, so they have their utility. That is not the case with Taiwanese. What if the dear Taiwanese hand over some samples to the Chinese just like they transferred Semi conductor tech from TSMC to China. And there is that little matter about Taiwanese support China's occupation of Tibet, at least the Kuomintang gang does it.

That apart, air lauched Brahmos is mostly for heavy class fighters like MKI. May be mirage. Don't know if Mig 29 and below are configured for it.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 21 Jun 2008 03:30

Brahmos is only meant for the MKI, nothing else.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 21 Jun 2008 03:47

New Russian frigate may be fitted with BrahMos cruise missiles

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080620/111481295.html

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 21 Jun 2008 04:12

sanjaychoudhry wrote:New Russian frigate may be fitted with BrahMos cruise missiles

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080620/111481295.html

I sense a marketing ploy to fool IN into going for the mediocre ship for P-17a. I hope IN sticks with FREMM design.

John · Post by **John** » 21 Jun 2008 04:14

Anurag wrote:Brahmos is only meant for the MKI, nothing else.

Also for the Tu-142, also for the russian Su-27 and Mig-27 as per the brochure. Mig claims 1 brahmos/yakhont can be fitted on mig-29k as well perhaps when taking off from a land base.

ranganathan wrote:
sanjaychoudhry wrote:New Russian frigate may be fitted with BrahMos cruise missiles

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080620/111481295.html
I sense a marketing ploy to fool IN into going for the mediocre ship for P-17a. I hope IN sticks with FREMM design.

I doubt they will sell FREMM design for export, DCN is mainly promoting a version of Delta class FFG to IN anyway.

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 21 Jun 2008 04:24

Never heard of a delta class FFG and FREMM is being pushed around by the italians.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Jun 2008 14:33

India-France to have jt venture for producing SAMs

India and France may soon join hands to make the latest variants of surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) with a lethal hundred per cent kill probability, on the lines of the highly successful Indo-Russian Brahmos supersonic cruise missile.

The proposed joint venture, for which intense groundwork has been done by the missile industry officials from both countries, could take shape in a year's time.

The name of the new series of lethal co-produced missile has been proposed as 'Maitri' and it aims to fulfil the demand of the Army, Navy and Air Force in India for procuring thousands of such missiles to cover up the "yawning" gap in country's air defence.

India is currently in the process of replacing its entire range of surface-to-air missile defence system to weed out the ageing SAM series of missile procured from the erstwhile Soviet Union in the late 60's and 70's.

The procurement of the new range of such missiles is to give more foolproof and vibrant defending capabilities to the nation's vital assets, VVIP complexes as well as provide mobile air cover to troops in operations.

"Our missile industry officials are in intense negotiations with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and India's sole missile producer, Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited for setting up of such a joint venture," Antoine Bouvier, CEO of the Euorpean Missile Consortium MBDA, told Indian newsmen here.

The French proposal comes as the Indian Army recently floated a 2 billion Euro contract for purchasing 1,000 short- range quick reaction missiles.

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 22 Jun 2008 16:39

Brahmos is only meant for the MKI, nothing else.

wrong -it will be Tupolov 142 that will get the first honor very soon

An air launched version for the Indian Air force has been under development for quite some time. Efforts are now on to deploy the TU-142, a Russian reconnaissance aircraft in service with the Navy, for trials soon. Once tests are completed, this version would be integrated with the Sukhoi Su-30MKI aircraft, Dr Pillai said.

krishnasr · Post by **krishnasr** » 22 Jun 2008 20:38

Do we have an equivalent missile in our inventory or planning to add the swedish RBS70?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVlfyHc4OtU
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVlfyHc4OtU[/youtube]

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 22 Jun 2008 21:50

Yes , DRDO is working on it. Its called "ANANAT NAG"

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 22 Jun 2008 22:39

Are you pulling his leg? Never heard of ananth nag? Anyway Indian Manpads would be SA-18 IGLA.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 23 Jun 2008 06:16

ranganathan garu>> we have a program called 'Nag' if the user trials continue at a brisk pace and a little massaging of the software it will evolve into sweedish counterpart, for Indian conditions, in the process the Nag program will go on making it 'Ananth" Nag. ( Ananth = endless or Infinity Nag, the upscale lux model)

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 23 Jun 2008 07:11

Nag is ATGM RBS-70 is MANPAD. WHats the connection?

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 25 Jun 2008 12:41

Indo-French Maitri Programme: Don't repeat BrahMos botch-ups - Shiv Aroor

Vick · Post by **Vick** » 25 Jun 2008 20:43

Appologies for linking Force. The main reason I post this is because it is directly linked to the head of MBDA.

Bouvier revealed that about 6,000 Maitri missiles would be manufactured. While confirming the Maitri deal he also said that MBDA was keenly awaiting the RFP for a quick reaction surface-to-air missile. This obviously will be the replacement for the unsuccessful DRDO’s Trishul missile for the three services. Another interesting project involving the MBDA will be Milan-2 with a range of 2,000m and with a tandem warhead, he said.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 25 Jun 2008 21:20

^^^ Now this is getting very confusing! I thought Maitri is replacement for Trishul, 1000 missiles to be bought and the deal is yet to be signed (as per latest reports)!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2008 21:24

SSridhar wrote:India-France to have jt venture for producing SAMs
(SAMs) with a lethal hundred per cent kill probability,

Can "probability" be 100 percent? Surely that is certainty, not probability

As an aside - John Snow never pulls any legs. he only watches too many Kannada movies.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 26 Jun 2008 09:32

shiv wrote:
SSridhar wrote:India-France to have jt venture for producing SAMs
Can "probability" be 100 percent? Surely that is certainty, not probability

As an aside - John Snow never pulls any legs. he only watches too many Kannada movies.

More than one SAM may be used for one target. Still it is difficult to imagine how the probability works out to 100 %. What about f22?

Is there any standard to measure this probability keeping in mind the RCS of the target?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 26 Jun 2008 11:13

100% kill probability is acheived by the woodoo power from French side and aabhichaara power from the yindoos. Still they couldn't beat the 400% KP of the djinn power from the LOP.

Should be DDM onlee.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 26 Jun 2008 11:25

india should ask for a money back gurantee on that 100% kill probability.

does this mean the akash and trishul sams will be canned or end up like the arjun? I've calculated a 100% kill probability on that.

srai · Post by **srai** » 26 Jun 2008 13:51

SSridhar wrote:India-France to have jt venture for producing SAMs
India and France may soon join hands to make the latest variants of surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) with a lethal hundred per cent kill probability, on the lines of the highly successful Indo-Russian Brahmos supersonic cruise missile.

The proposed joint venture, for which intense groundwork has been done by the missile industry officials from both countries, could take shape in a year's time.

The name of the new series of lethal co-produced missile has been proposed as 'Maitri' and it aims to fulfil the demand of the Army, Navy and Air Force in India for procuring thousands of such missiles to cover up the "yawning" gap in country's air defence.

India is currently in the process of replacing its entire range of surface-to-air missile defence system to weed out the ageing SAM series of missile procured from the erstwhile Soviet Union in the late 60's and 70's.

The procurement of the new range of such missiles is to give more foolproof and vibrant defending capabilities to the nation's vital assets, VVIP complexes as well as provide mobile air cover to troops in operations.

"Our missile industry officials are in intense negotiations with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and India's sole missile producer, Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited for setting up of such a joint venture," Antoine Bouvier, CEO of the Euorpean Missile Consortium MBDA, told Indian newsmen here.

The French proposal comes as the Indian Army recently floated a 2 billion Euro contract for purchasing 1,000 short- range quick reaction missiles.

I wouldn't be surprised if JV uses the Astra missile as the platform for this LLQRM SAM project. MBDA has expertise in turning MICA MR-AAMs into SR-SAM systems and so it could be an option to do the same with Astra MR-AAM. I think it will be a big boost for the Astra R&D as well if the JV decides to go this direction.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2008 19:15

A: Is it plausible to theoritcally look at 100% kill probability, using all weather multi sensor fusion technology. I am thinking, optics, multi band homing radar, infra reds, and laser, each being working on to establish a simple API of the target co-ordinates. Error correction logic and that scoping zone logic for each sensors, and correction precedence should ensure a near 100%.

B: What sensor we have to say a hypothetical missile approaching with a magical Zero Infra emission (let say it air driven super duper battery powered for argument sake), in dark night sky, and eats and deflects all radar hits?

I guess if B is possible, then there exists a condition that A is possible as well.