Indian Space Program Discussion

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Kakarat » 17 Jul 2008 13:57

Geo-synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Project Operational Flights- F11 to F16
The Union Cabinet today gave its approval for funding of six GSLV operational flights (F11 to F16) at a total estimated cost of Rs. 1280.96 crores with a Foreign Exchange component of Rs. 272.90 crores.

With the realization of six GSLV Operational flights ( 9F11 to F16 ) end-to-end capability to launch communication satellites will be available during the Eleventh Five Year Plan.

The six flights (GSLV F11 –16) are expected to be realized during the time-frame 2010-1012.

BACKGROUND

GSLV after successfully completing the two demonstration flights attained the operational status during 2004. In its first operational flight, GSLV-F01 successfully launched 1950 kg EDUSAT satellite into Geo-synchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO). More recently, during September 2007, GSLV in its F04 flight successfully carried a 2130 kg communication satellite, INSAT-4CR. GSLV in its operational series has so far completed three flights, of which two have been successful. With four successful flights so far, GSLV is poised to launch a series of 2200-2400 kg class communication satellites during the eleventh Five-Year Plan period and beyond. The next mission aims at the launch of GSLV-D3 during early 2008, which will be the maiden flight of GSLV with indigenous Cryogenic Upper Stage (CUS) and will carry the GSAT-4 satellite into GTO.

The development project for GSLV was approved during November 1990 at a cost of Rs. 1405.19 Crores towards meeting the indigenous launching capability for carrying 2 tonne class communication satellites into GTO. The project provided for the design, development and launch of three developmental flights viz., D1, D2 and D3.

The first version of GSLV (GSLV Mark-I) is a three-stage vehicle using solid and liquid stage for the first two stages and a procured cryogenic stage (CS) from Russia for the third stage. The first development flight, GSLV-D1 successfully launched a 1540 kg GSAT-1 into Geo Synchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO) during the year 2001. This was followed by D2 launch in 2003 which launched a 1824 kg GSAT-2 into GTO. With these two successful missions, GSLV was declared operational.

In the operational series, Government had approved for the realization of three GSLV flights (F01-F03) and additional procurement of long lead items for 3 more flights during April 2003 at a cost of Rs. 945 crores ( FE : Rs. 368.80 Crores). To cater to the increased demand of two GSLV’s per year for GTO mission in the 11th Five year Plan period, approval was obtained for realization of seven more vehicles (F04-F10) in December 2006 at a total cost of Rs. 1325 Crores ( FE : Rs. 311 Crores).

The INSAT and GSAT satellites being launched by operational flights have significantly augmented the INSAT system capacity for national development in the areas of communications, broadcasting, and developmental communications including telemedicine & tele-education.

The efforts so far have resulted in payload improvement from 1540 kg to 2150 through use of S139 solid core stage, high performance liquid engines, miniaturized avionics and mission optimization. Plans are afoot to increase the payload capability to 2400 kg in subsequent flight through the use of indigenous Cryogenic Upper Stage.

Presently, the Indian National Satellite (INSAT) system has 211 transponders and the demand for transponders by end of 11th Plan is expected to be about 500. An assessment of national requirement of transponders meteorological and navigational services, specialized customer needs, opportunities for bilateral / international cooperation as well as potential commercial possibilities calls for launch of 2 GSLV’s per year during the 11th Five Year Plan period and beyond. During the 11th Plan period and beyond, based on the demand profile of transponders, it is envisaged to build and launch 12 GSAT series of satellites onboard the current version of GSLV. Out of this, approval already exists for 6 GSLVs in the current GSLV operational programe, GSLV F1 to F10. Hence, it is proposed to undertake 6 additional GSLV operational flights ( GSLV F11 to F16), to meet the 11th Plan demand.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 20 Jul 2008 18:00

Rupesh wrote:
venkat_r wrote:India has to get to 50 sattelites launches a year with about 1 Billion $ in civilian revenues to become any sort of player of significance in the world space market.


We need to increase the infrastructure at Sriharikota. Maybe restart launches from Thumba. .


Thumba is on western sea board of india. Satellites are mostly launched in a eastern direction.Launching from thumba would make the lower stages of the launch vehicle fall on land mass of southern india. Hence only sounding rockets are launched from thumba. Yes a third launch pad at sriharikota would definitely take the pressure off.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Raj Malhotra » 21 Jul 2008 00:03

It seems like good longterm planning that 12 GSLVs have been ordered going into next decade

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Brando » 21 Jul 2008 04:42

What I cant understand is why Sriharikota. Whats so special about that place ?

Wouldn't it be more worth while to have built the launching pad as close to the equator as possible, like some place in Tamil Nadu to get the maximum advantage ?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ranganathan » 21 Jul 2008 04:43

Yeah like sri lanka would love to have our rockets fly over them.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 21 Jul 2008 05:10

Where is the World Going in Space?
Recent developments suggest that future moon inhabitants would be wise to study French, German, Russian, Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, and Hindi as well.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Anujan » 21 Jul 2008 05:29

Brando wrote:What I cant understand is why Sriharikota. Whats so special about that place ?
Wouldn't it be more worth while to have built the launching pad as close to the equator as possible, like some place in Tamil Nadu to get the maximum advantage ?

Brando-saar,
Sriharikota is less than 100km from chennai, on the east coast, close to National Highway 5 and the Rail line. It is almost the same latitude as Port blair and the entire island is occupied by ISRO. Very few sites had these advantages.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Brando » 21 Jul 2008 07:57

lakshmic wrote:
Brando wrote:What I cant understand is why Sriharikota. Whats so special about that place ?
Wouldn't it be more worth while to have built the launching pad as close to the equator as possible, like some place in Tamil Nadu to get the maximum advantage ?

Brando-saar,
Sriharikota is less than 100km from chennai, on the east coast, close to National Highway 5 and the Rail line. It is almost the same latitude as Port blair and the entire island is occupied by ISRO. Very few sites had these advantages.


Arent there islands further south towards Tuticorin or Nagercoil etc that are almost as advantageous and its closer by a large margin to the equator too ? Also Chennai is in the northern half of Tamil Nadu isnt it ? Its still quite a ways from as close as can be. Also with this advantage they can use a more aggressive launch trajectory than they can use from Sriharikota. I'm sure they saw all possible options but I'm just wondering as to what makes it so special.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby prao » 23 Jul 2008 19:41

Brando wrote:What I cant understand is why Sriharikota. Whats so special about that place ?

Wouldn't it be more worth while to have built the launching pad as close to the equator as possible, like some place in Tamil Nadu to get the maximum advantage ?


Sriharikota is at about 13.5 degrees N. The lowest India can go is about 10 degrees N because below that latitude, Sri Lanka will be in the way so to speak. 3.5 degrees is certainly an advantage but not that much. Of course the Tamil Nadu coast is a highly populated area so there will be logistical reasons for further limiting India's options.

India can go as low as about 7 degrees N with a launch facility at Great Nicobar island but that is less than 1000 km from the Malaysian coast (due East) and in an area with heavy shipping. Both are certainly limiting factors. Plus the location will need to be heavily defended against Chinese interference and snooping.

There was a proposal about a decade ago to develop Chandipur in Orissa (the site of the DRDO test facility) as an additional launch site for polar launches. This site would increase the payload of polar launches because the current dogleg maneuver over Sri Lanka would be avoided. Why that was not implemented I don't know.

Prao

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Shivani » 23 Jul 2008 22:13

prao wrote:This site would increase the payload of polar launches because the current dogleg maneuver over Sri Lanka would be avoided. Why that was not implemented I don't know.

Prao


Why is it necessary for launch vehicles to avoid overflying Sri Lanka? Pakistan or Bangladesh is understandable, but Sri Lanka?!
Is the relationship with Sri Lanka so bad that even such basic coutesy cannot be extended? Don't we have any influence whatsoever over Sri Lanka?

This is all news to me.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 23 Jul 2008 22:20

The launcher debris/expended stages would fall on Sri Lanka.

Chandipur was decided to be primarily a military site. Until there is accomodation of India in the world system its not wise to launch ISOR vehicles from military sites. It gives wrong impression and strenghtens proponents of dual use technology.

So wise decision but at a cost.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby p_saggu » 23 Jul 2008 22:34

There are two reasons why Sriharikota was chosen.
1. The launch site had to be on the Eastern seaboard so that Geo stationary launches could travel over the open ocean and not over land.
2. The further north you go, the payload capability of geostationary launches decreases for the same engine power. Going further south, meant that the Srilankan land mass was immediately in the flight path, again to avoid this Polar launches have to expend more fuel and do a dog-leg maneovre around srilanka's eastern seaboard.
Thumba could still be ideal for polar launches as also chandipur. While a launch center in the nicobar islands would be very ideal for geo launches (Except that east asian nations come in the flight path), just as chandipur.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 23 Jul 2008 23:04

As ISRO expands and SAARC takes off it is feasible to have a leased site from Sri Lanka for such launches. They can also participate in the supply chain.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Bade » 24 Jul 2008 01:34

Lakshwadweep islands too make a good candidate. routine launches are made from california west coast where the landmass coastlines are similar to western india.

Added advantage is that the west coast is less prone to cyclones in the northern hemisphere.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 25 Jul 2008 00:32

ISRO to launch Chandrayaan-I in September

Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) will launch Chandrayaan-I, India’’s maiden mission to the moon, in September.
Talking to ANI in an exclusive interview on the sidelights of a seminar here today, Chairman of ISRO G. Madhavan Nair said that the final tests have been on to launch the spacecraft to moon.
Chandrayaan-I will be launched atop a Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV), India’’s workhorse rocket with a streak of nine consecutive flawless missions.
The spacecraft would be loaded with six instruments including a high-resolution stereo camera capable of imaging objects about 16 feet in diameter.
It will also carry near-infrared and X-ray spectrometers and a laser altimeter to determine the altitude of the lunar craft for spatial coverage of various instruments.
These payloads will enable researchers to ascertain the composition and topography of the lunar surface.
The engineers have also built a 64-pound impactor that will be dropped from the orbiting spacecraft for a suicidal nosedive into the moon.
The probe will relay video imagery, altitude information and spectral data back to Earth through the Chandrayaan mothership, which will be in a lunar orbit 100 kilometres away.
The remote sensing satellite will weigh 1304 kg (590 kg initial orbit mass and 504 kg dry mass).


http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/ind ... 75385.html

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 25 Jul 2008 00:35

IBM’s rebuff forces Isro to fend for itself

Isro looks to upgrade its facility after shortlisted vendor IBM declines, citing fears of chip use by the Indian military

Indian Space Research Organisation, or Isro, will now upgrade a semiconductor fabrication unit, or fab, on its own after International Business Machines (IBM) Corp., the vendor it had shortlisted, declined citing fears that India’s space agency may use the chips designed there to guide rockets and satellites for India’s military.
In 2006, IBM won a face-off with another US-based firm, Atmel Corp., to handle a nearly Rs500 crore contract to upgrade Semi-Conductor Laboratory (SCL), India’s oldest chip foundry, in Chandigarh.
Isro, which, in turn, acquired the fab from the ministry of information technology in 2005, planned to upgrade it to produce chips of 0.25 micron size from the current 0.8 micron (micron is a unit of length, which is one-millionth of a metre). “In all these projects, the components are all of dual-use technologies (and) many people don’t agree that they can part with the technology they have,” said G. Madhavan Nair, chairman of Isro. So, “we are going on our own now. Entire rocket technology and satellite technology we have developed ourselves. We can also develop (on our own) semiconductor technology.”
But, efforts to build semiconductor fabs in the private sector are yet to take off in India, despite big plans by several firms.
India has around 11 fabs, all captive to the government needs in space and defence, according to India Semiconductor Association (ISA), a lobby for the semiconductor industry. “The country has no commercial fabs. It needs to be addressed through the semiconductor policy implementation,” said Poornima Shenoy, president of ISA in an email response.
IBM wanted the space agency to declare in advance — before a contract was signed — guarantees about the end-use of chips made from the upgraded foundry, said a person familiar with the development who didn’t want to be named. US law, which governs IBM, mandates firms dealing with dual-use technologies insist their customers sign the so-called end-user agreement.
The chips produced in SCL are used by Isro in the satellites and rockets it designs. But, the same person didn’t rule out the use of these chips in “strategic programmes” or, those that guide missiles, or in other defence projects.
An IBM India spokesman said the company doesn’t comment on client issues.
Analysts say sourcing of such technology by institutions such as Isro would indeed put them under the export control regime of the US.
“If we can do well in rocket science, chip technology shouldn’t be difficult. We should know how to put it on the table correctly,” said Ajey Lele, a research fellow at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, a New Delhi-based think tank.
IBM’s insistence of an end-user agreement also comes against the backdrop of an India-born businessman, Parthasarathy Sudarshan, being jailed for violation of the US export control laws over selling vintage Intel chips allegedly for India’s light combat Tejas programme and rocket programmes. Sudarshan, chief executive of Cirrus Electronics, an American firm, was sentenced by a US court in January to a 30-month prison term.


http://www.livemint.com/2008/07/2423123 ... -Isro.html

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Sanjay M » 25 Jul 2008 02:48

How come IBM won't get with the 123 program?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 25 Jul 2008 03:21

So all aspects were not considered before contract award?
Anyway if they ae upgrading on their own then why the whine?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby p_saggu » 25 Jul 2008 03:37

Let 'em whine today so that they may gloat tomorrow.

Nothing, I repeat nothing gets a PSU's goat than tech denial, nay rejection by massa / ouiropean. They and the government take it very personally. For us a little more enlightened peoples, I heave a sigh of relief. If they develop .25 today, they can go smaller still tomorrow who knows?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vishwakarmaa » 25 Jul 2008 07:56

American court sent an Indian, CEO of chip-making company in USA, to Jail for 2.5 years. But, when IBM participates in ISRO tender process, its not illegal!!
Last edited by Jagan on 29 Jul 2008 05:48, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: no swear words please

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Shyam_K » 25 Jul 2008 08:00

vishwakarmaa wrote:American court sent an Indian, CEO of chip-making company in USA, to Jail for 2.5 years. But, when IBM participates in ISRO tender process, its not illegal!!

********.


There is nothing illegal about participating in a tender process, as long as IBM follows all the laws that apply (Indian and USA laws). IBM was following the law when it asked ISRO to sign an end-user agreement before it supplies restricted technologies to India.

Cirrus Electronics broke US law by supplying restricted dual-use technology without end-user agreement, hence the conviction.

I too wish ISRO did get the technology it wanted, but there is no reason for name calling :-)

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vishwakarmaa » 25 Jul 2008 08:06

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
IBM’s rebuff forces Isro to fend for itself

Isro looks to upgrade its facility after shortlisted vendor IBM declines, citing fears of chip use by the Indian military

http://www.livemint.com/2008/07/2423123 ... -Isro.html


Golden opportunity.
Last edited by vishwakarmaa on 25 Jul 2008 08:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vishwakarmaa » 25 Jul 2008 08:15

Shyam_K wrote:I too wish ISRO did get the technology it wanted, but there is no reason for name calling :-)


Sorry, if my name calling offended you. I take back my words. Unkil is not a ********. He is a good guy

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby prashanth » 25 Jul 2008 09:12

p_saggu wrote:Let 'em whine today so that they may gloat tomorrow.

Nothing, I repeat nothing gets a PSU's goat than tech denial, nay rejection by massa / ouiropean. They and the government take it very personally. For us a little more enlightened peoples, I heave a sigh of relief. If they develop .25 today, they can go smaller still tomorrow who knows?


True. This is why we have an indigenous cryogenic engine today. Some R&D will happen in semiconductor electronics field.
OTOH for now ( if need be), is it possible to get chips fabricated in fabs outside India such as SoKo or Singapore? This should not be a problem as there is no TOT involved. This will work out profitably only if chips are made on a large scale, though.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 27 Jul 2008 22:01

http://www.indiandefenceforum.com/index ... ic=3276.20

The above link has a pic of the moon impact probe to be carried on Chandrayaan-1(search for Chandrayaan's Moon Impact Probe on the webpage). One side of the probe is open and one can easily see and relate the parts to be placed inside by using the schematic cutout on the Isro website below

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/mip.htm

As I understand the small green strip on the top right side corner could be the radar altimeter antenna. Also the word RADAR is seen to be scribbled on one of the many holders placed directly under the green strip. There is a aperture on the center of the middle pod for the CCD camera. On the left top side is the pod for the mass spectrometer.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 28 Jul 2008 02:35

The moon beckons again - for U.S., 8 other nations
The U.S. will team up with eight other nations in a new effort to explore the lunar surface
By Mike Swift, Mercury News, 07/26/2008
In hopes of discovering clues to the origin of life on Earth, the United States and eight other nations signed a landmark agreement at NASA's Ames Research Center this week that scientists hope will lay the groundwork for a new generation of lunar exploration and science.

Unlike the all-American Apollo program, the new agreement sees a multinational fleet of robot spacecraft returning to the moon in coming years, with the maturing space programs of countries like India, Germany and South Korea playing key roles in an effort that ultimately would lead to the return of astronauts.

"It's sort of like the beginning of a beautiful friendship, like at the end of 'Casablanca,' " James Green, director of NASA's planetary science division, said at Moffett Field this week.

"Many of these countries are quite interested in the manned program. They want to provide astronauts to be the first Canadian or the first Italian or the first French man or French woman on the moon."

NASA and the eight other countries - Canada, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Britain and France - plan to formally announce the agreement Tuesday. The multinational agreement capped a momentous week at Ames, including the largest NASA science conference purely devoted to the moon since the 1970s.

A multinational moon effort would allow NASA to share costs. The United States budgeted money for four landers, but scientists want up to eight spacecraft on the surface. Representatives of the space and science agencies of the nine countries spent Thursday at Moffett Field working on a plan to launch lunar landers and orbiters, establishing a network to monitor the moon's seismic activity that would stretch from the poles to the far side.

"The exploration of the moon in the next decade will not be human, it will be this international flotilla," said David Morrison, interim director of the newly created Lunar Science Institute at Ames. "Ultimately, I think we will send people to the moon, but we don't have to wait for that."

Nearly ignored since the last Apollo landing in 1972, the moon is a unique place for scientists to perhaps answer one of the most basic questions of science: When did life originate on Earth?

Apollo moon rocks in recent years have yielded the surprising suggestion that the early solar system was more like a game of cosmic billiards than a placid hierarchy of planets.

That planetary havoc may have indirectly sparked life on Earth, one reason scientists say it is so important to return to the moon.

"What's happening right now is that a revolution in planetary science is going on," Green said. "We are taking these small pieces and we are starting to put together the puzzle, and we are surprised by what we find."

Because the moon has not been resurfaced by plate tectonics, volcanoes or erosion, it is the only body in the solar system where scientists might still read that most ancient of histories, a report by National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences concluded last year.

What some scientists call the "terminal cataclysm hypothesis" suggests that Uranus and Neptune were once inside the orbit of Jupiter, until the powerful gravitational field of the largest planet cast them toward the outer regions of the solar system.

That epic migration of planets may have triggered a bombardment of Earth and the moon by asteroids and icy comets. The strikes could have been the source for 65 percent to 85 percent of the water in the oceans, Green said.

Lunar scientists believe the record of a "late heavy bombardment" between 3.8 billion and 4 billion years ago - just before life may have first emerged on Earth - can be studied on the moon.

"How much of the oceans would have been brought to Earth by that bombardment? We don't know," Green said. "But we can go back to the moon to find out."

The wave of scientific interest in the moon is coupled with the fact that space capability is no longer an exclusive club. For countries with emerging space capabilities, going to the moon "is the next logical step," Green said.

Already, India hopes to send its Chandrayaan-1 probe to orbit the moon this year. China's Chang'e probe and Japan's Selene are already there.

One sentiment at the conference was that moon exploration should be an international effort.

President Bush said in 2004 that the United States should return to the moon, as a stepping stone toward the human exploration of Mars. A generation of robotic explorers will lead the way.

Ames is directing one of those first crucial missions, the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS), which will crash a rocket booster into the moon in 2009 to see if ice might exist in a perpetually shadowed crater.

This week's lunar conference brought together Apollo-era veterans with younger researchers who hope to take part in a new multinational generation of lunar exploration.

"It really marked a new era," Morrison said.

In sessions ranging from the toxicity of lunar dust to the implications of lunar exploration to human society, scientists grappled with issues as far ranging as the need for environmental protection on the moon.

One session asked: If NASA strip-mined the moon, would it provoke environmental opposition? And what about preserving the Apollo landing sites?

"A leg of the Apollo 11 LEM - the lander?" Green said. "Can you imagine what that would fetch on eBay?"

Contact Mike Swift at mswift@mercurynews.com or (408) 271-3648.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 28 Jul 2008 02:50

Arunkumar wrote:
Rupesh wrote:
venkat_r wrote:India has to get to 50 sattelites launches a year with about 1 Billion $ in civilian revenues to become any sort of player of significance in the world space market.


We need to increase the infrastructure at Sriharikota. Maybe restart launches from Thumba. .


Thumba is on western sea board of india. Satellites are mostly launched in a eastern direction.Launching from thumba would make the lower stages of the launch vehicle fall on land mass of southern india. Hence only sounding rockets are launched from thumba. Yes a third launch pad at sriharikota would definitely take the pressure off.


For Polar orbits, the preexisting civilian facility at Thumba will be IMHO a better launch station, that way the logistics will be easier with the mother establishment at Satish Dhawan Lunch Station @ Sriharikota. Orissa is a long way off Sriharikota.

So Thumba for Polar orbits and Sriharikota for Equatorial launch. BTW with GSLV-3 configuration the equatorial launch trajectory will become more efficient. The current GSLV-Mk1 and Mk-II stage confign require it do a dog leg around Indonesia. GSLV-Mk3 stage separation sequence will make that inconsequential. And the inclination at Sriharikota is pretty decent and comparable to Equatorial launch. More so if inclination correction is done by lower stages.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby p_saggu » 28 Jul 2008 04:11

Arun_S wrote:GSLV-Mk3 stage separation sequence will make that inconsequential.

Please elaborate further

Arun_S wrote:And the inclination at Sriharikota is pretty decent and comparable to Equatorial launch. More so if inclination correction is done by lower stages.

But the closer to the equator you get, the more efficient geostationary launches get. Sriharikota is 13 degrees N. Compare with French guyana on the equator.

For geo launches what we need is someplace as close to the equator as possible. Car Nicobar has a satellite tracking station, it is only 8 degrees or so from the equator. Except that it is perennially afflicted with earthquakes, and indonesia is immediately east off it.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 28 Jul 2008 22:52

p_saggu wrote:
Arun_S wrote:GSLV-Mk3 stage separation sequence will make that inconsequential.

Please elaborate further

Dr.Kasturirangan gave that insight that when I asked him launch pad location question. And ROCKSIM validates that too.

GLSV-Mk-I/II is a 3 stage vehicle. The second stage (L37) drops ~2600 Km from launch pad. 2600 Km is smack middle of Indonesia's Sumatra island. GLSV-Mk3 OTOH is a 2.5 stage vehicle and the L110 falls off <2000Km thus can be flown without threatening Sumatra.
Arun_S wrote:And the inclination at Sriharikota is pretty decent and comparable to Equatorial launch. More so if inclination correction is done by lower stages.

But the closer to the equator you get, the more efficient geostationary launches get. Sriharikota is 13 degrees N. Compare with French guyana on the equator.

For geo launches what we need is someplace as close to the equator as possible. Car Nicobar has a satellite tracking station, it is only 8 degrees or so from the equator. Except that it is perennially afflicted with earthquakes, and indonesia is immediately east off it.

Can you give quantitative data? And where is the most optimum trade off w.r.t cost of shipping to Car Nicobar?

BTW Car Nicobar is unacceptable because the booster & first stage splash down will threaten neighboring countries.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SSridhar » 29 Jul 2008 05:48

Apart from the impact of the separated stages, it has to be also taken into consideration the effects of destruction of vehicle due to malfunction. The debris should also fall safely.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Sanjay M » 01 Aug 2008 17:17

Water Officially Confirmed on Mars

India should make it a high priority to send a mission to Mars. Again, I think a balloon project would be great.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 03 Aug 2008 14:57

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_4

Following is the payloads of the first probes of erstwhile Soviet union and America to crash land on the moon. This is to indicate the different lines of thought while designing the probes.

Luna 2

1.) Magnetometer (for studying magnetic fields)
2.) Geiger Counter(for radiation environment).
3.) Micrometeroid detector. (In the absence of atmosphere, good possibility).
4.) Scintillation counter (Magnetospheric studies).
5.) Spherical construction(Soviet obsession) with mass of 390 kg.
(surprisingly no video camera on board).

Ranger -4
1.) Television camera.
2.) Seismometer.
3.) Radar Altimeter.
4.) Gamma ray spectrometer(for inflight radiation studies)
5.) Hexagonal base construction with mass of 330kg.

MIP(Indian, to be launched)
1.) Analog CCD camera
2.) Mass spectrometer
3.) Radar Altimeter.
4.) Cuboid construction with mass of 29kg.

While Ranger-4 and Luna 2 were the only payload on the respective launch vehicles, MIP is just one among the many payload on the Chandrayaan-1 mothership. Would like to be corrected on this , this is for the first time a mass spectrometer is being used in a impact mission on moon and the sampling would be done as the probe goes into the suicidal dive.


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 05 Aug 2008 05:24

Watch this space
Zhang Ying

GINDIA put a cluster of 10 satellites into orbit in April. It integrated the instruments in the lunar probe on its maiden mission to the moon in June. It is speeding up research on intercontinental missiles. The country has been eye-catching in its development of space technology. Since venturing into space in the 1960s, India has cranked up its technology advancement. Now space transportation, deep space exploration, missile weapons and satellites are all part of the country’s agenda to boldly go where few others have gone. India’s space industry has its eye on a new era where it may play a more dominant role in Asia.
Going all the way
The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) began to carry out research on launch vehicles in 1973. India has since developed increasingly powerful launch vehicles, which can send both homemade and foreign satellites into space. India has developed four types of launch vehicles, the satellite launch vehicle-3, the augmented satellite launch vehicle, the polar satellite launch vehicle (PSLV) and the geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV). While the former two types fell into disuse in 1983 and 1994 respectively, PSLV and GSLV launchers are India’s major launch vehicles today.
Lunar exploration has caught the attention of the international community with its major implications for energy exploitation, science and technology, politics and defense. India’s lunar exploration program has three phases. It will first launch a lunar probe, then land a lunar robot to conduct research and finally send an Indian astronaut to the moon.
According to recent reports on website of the Press Trust of India, the ISRO had finished integrating the 11 instruments in the lunar probe on its maiden mission to the moon by early June. It is currently doing comprehensive experiments to ensure that the whole system will operate in line with preset goals. If everything goes well, the probe is due to take off on a PSLV launcher on September 19. It will not land on the moon but will collect data on its polar ice and capture surface images. The mission will take at least two years. India believes an advanced manned space program is crucial to its space exploration. Apart from training astronauts, it has made technological preparations to send a man into space. For example, it has developed cryogenic rocket engines, a key technology for manned space missions.
India retrieved its first recoverable space capsule in January 2007, an initial experiment of manned space flight. It proved India’s capacity to control space capsules and marked a major breakthrough in its manned space program. The ISRO has announced that India will launch a manned mission into space on its 3-ton manned spacecraft in 2014 and will send its first astronaut to the moon by 2020. The manned space program has an estimated budget of $2.5 to $3 billion.
Missile awareness
In its early days, India imported missile weapons, including cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles, first from Britain and France and later from the former Soviet Union. In the 1990s, profound changes in the international security environment had a major impact on India’s military strategy. As it sought to elevate itself to the status of a leading world power and a regional military power, it redoubled its efforts to adjust its military strategy and boost its arsenal. It implemented its Integrated Guided Missile Development Program in the 1980s under the leadership of the then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi. India’s Defense Research and Development Organization was responsible for the program, which focused on research on surface-to-surface ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles. This marked the beginning of India’s efforts to develop indigenous strategic and tactical missiles. In the 21st century, the country is attaching even greater importance to the development of missiles. It has become a major missile-capable country in Asia and will continue to modernize its missiles, especially ballistic missiles, mainly based on its own research.
India has developed four series of surface-to-surface ballistic missiles, the short-range Prithvi, the medium-range Agni, the long-range Surya and intercontinental ballistic missiles. Because ballistic missiles are costly to develop and restricted by international treaties, India has taken cruise missiles as major carriers for its nuclear warheads. Cruise missiles fly slower and lower but are more accurate than ballistic missiles. While intensifying research on nuclear weapons, India sees great value in the importation and development of cruise missiles. It has imported the Uran Kh-35 anti-ship cruise missile system and the Club supersonic cruise missile system from Russia, jointly developed the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile with Russia, and developed the Sagarika submarine-launched cruise missile on its own.
In recent years, as it tries to turn itself into a major military power in South Asia and the world at large, India has devoted increasing efforts to developing an air defense system. It is also contemplating strengthening its anti-ballistic capabilities to deter other countries in the region. Most of India’s air defense missiles are imported from Russia, the United States and Israel. It plans to shape a missile interception system with imported air defense missiles and homemade anti-ballistic missiles. India is strong in air defense. It purchased the S-300P antimissile system from Russia in 1998. In 2000, it signed the purchase agreement with Russia for the Antey-2500 anti-tactical missile system including its command, control and communications equipment. In addition, it will import the more advanced S-400 antimissile system from Russia. India also has the intention to purchase the Patriot-3 air defense missile system from the United States and the Arrow-2 missile defense system from Israel. Homemade air defense missiles include Trihul and Akash, both of which have been deployed.
Commercially viable
India’s progress in launch vehicle technology and missile weapons is evident in the following areas: First, the launch capacity of India’s launch vehicles has increased. India began to develop launch vehicles in 1963 and made substantial progress in launch vehicle technology in the 1980s. Its launch vehicle technology matured in the 1990s. Later, India improved its PSLV launcher to enhance its launch capacity. Today, it is developing a more powerful launch vehicle, GSLV-MK3, which can deliver a payload of 4 tons to the geostationary transfer orbit and a payload of 10 tons to the low earth orbit. It will develop a cryogenic upper stage for its GSLV launcher and accelerate its research on air-breathing engines and reusable launch vehicles. Reusable launch vehicles, which can help reduce the costs of space transportation, will further increase India’s launch capacity.
Second, India is a player in the international commercial launch market. It became the world’s fifth commercial launch service provider when it put an Italian satellite into space with its PSLV launcher in April 2007. Its GSLV-MK1 launcher, on which it takes only $15,000-$16,000 to send 1 kg of payload to the geostationary transfer orbit, is competitive in the international market. The ISRO said India would take 10 percent of the international commercial launch market in the next five years due to its stable performance, multi-satellite launch capacity and low launch costs. Third, India has gained an initial command of some basic technologies of the multiple independently targeted reentry vehicle (MIRV). India put a cluster of 10 satellites into orbit on a PLSV launcher in April, becoming the fifth country to be able to launch more than one satellite on a single launch vehicle after the United States, Russia, the European Space Agency and China. Multi-satellite launch technology and MIRV technology share some similarities, and a mastery of the former can pave the way for the latter. India is expected to gain a complete command of MIRV technology in 15 to 20 years. This technology will enable it to use a single launched missile to strike several targets. Fourth, India has forged ahead with its research on intercontinental missiles. India now possesses short- and medium-range ballistic missiles and is developing long-range and intercontinental ballistic missiles. Indian defense experts said it would not be difficult to convert PSLV launchers to intercontinental ballistic missiles. India has test-fired its Surya missile, whose range is close to an intercontinental missile. Its Ministry of Defense also has disclosed that the country is speeding up research on intercontinental missiles. All these moves provide evidence to India’s improving intercontinental missile technology.


—The Daily Mail-Beijing Review Articles Exchange Item

Gerard
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 07 Aug 2008 04:52

Chandrayaan launch delayed
It is likely to take place in mid-October

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 09 Aug 2008 02:45


p_saggu
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby p_saggu » 09 Aug 2008 03:15

I am posting this here because there might be a co-relation.
This "Surya" missile system that India is supposed to be developing keeps cropping up at regular intervals, although we are yet to see any sign of it. The only ICBM potential missile we see being developed is the Agni V.
Someone once told me long ago that the PSLV was the "Surya". These newspaper reports seem to hint towards such a possibility too. I was told that under dire circumstances, a PSLV was to be customised as an ICBM and used as such.
Although I can not verify or re check back, can anyone else shed some gyan?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sivab » 09 Aug 2008 04:35

p_saggu wrote:I am posting this here because there might be a co-relation.
This "Surya" missile system that India is supposed to be developing keeps cropping up at regular intervals, although we are yet to see any sign of it. The only ICBM potential missile we see being developed is the Agni V.
Someone once told me long ago that the PSLV was the "Surya". These newspaper reports seem to hint towards such a possibility too. I was told that under dire circumstances, a PSLV was to be customised as an ICBM and used as such.
Although I can not verify or re check back, can anyone else shed some gyan?


Check the weight of PSLV, its height, how to move it and how long it takes to launch.
Why does one need ~300 ton monster, when ~50 ton can do the job.
Check the weight, height, diameter and number of stages of other ICBM's like minuteman or topol-m.
Compare them with Agni V and you will know the answer.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby p_saggu » 09 Aug 2008 05:13

I heard this story in the '90s ...
When there was all that hulla about the cryogenic engines.
I know cryogenic engines go into the third stage of the GSLV, but this is the PSLV I'm talking about.
Well anyhow...

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Rahul M » 09 Aug 2008 05:32

this story originated in the 80's.
back then Indian nationalists were a bit nervous about India's lack of strategic weapons in a very hot political climate (Iran-Iraq war,Afghanistan,new cold war, Star Wars, Indo-pak clashes etc).
1) Some reassuring articles came out in desi mags about how the SLV could be used as a modified BM, initially by concerned people but gradually taken over by the garden variety DDM.

2) NPA's were anyway looking for a stick to beat India with latched on and created the canard of the military implications of India's space programme, which was nothing but a ploy to restrict the civilian space programme itself. as time went along the SLV was gradually replaced by the PSLV to make the situation appear more fearful for the goras. (a 3rd world country so desperate and belligerent it is playing around with civilian rocket tech stolen from the west and putting it to military use in what is obviously an unstable and downright dangerous configuration !!)
translation : should we trust the browns with rocket tech, or any tech for that matter ??

steps 1 & 2 are not necessarily in that chronological order but they did feed each other in a nice feedback loop.

p.s. p_saggu, how about clarifying that mysterious post in the towels thread ?? I'm perplexed !!


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