Indian Space Program Discussion

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Vivek K
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Postby Vivek K » 30 Apr 2008 01:10

Did the C9 also carry a recoverable satellite?

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Postby gogna » 30 Apr 2008 01:11

anupmisra wrote:Chandrayaan and beyond!

You have got to watch this. Well made video.


In the above video Chandrayaan ISRO Moon Mission at 06:25
you can see indian lunar rover model, also this week chinese have revealed their model as well, we are fast catching up with the chinese on moon mission.


Chinese Lunar Rover

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Postby Vivek K » 30 Apr 2008 01:46

Gogna, the Indian rover right now is at the concept stage while the Chinese have a prototype. We will catch up but it is important to knw where we currently stand.

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Postby putnanja » 30 Apr 2008 01:50


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Postby Gerard » 30 Apr 2008 02:49


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Postby Arun_S » 30 Apr 2008 03:27

[quote="ramana"]In above post

[quote]
The Indian Mini Satellite-1 (IMS-1), which was earlier called the Third World Satellite (TWSAT), will be a co-passenger with the Cartosat-2A on the PSLV. While the latter weighs 690 kg, the IMS-1, a small satellite, weighs slightly over 80 kg at lift-off.

“The IMS-1 should be seen as a technology demonstrator for miniaturising both space and ground segments,â€

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Postby Gerard » 30 Apr 2008 03:36


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Postby SSridhar » 30 Apr 2008 06:04

Also, regarding the newer cameras in IMS-1, Dr. Madahavan Nair said that while each of the cameras normally weighed 80 Kg, the total weight of the two cameras in IMS-1 put together was 30 Kg.

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Postby Bade » 30 Apr 2008 08:04

IMS-1 is quite an interesting payload with multiple purposes it can be employed for. In future an expanded Hyperspectral sensor can replace the OCM sensor with the broader optical bands for Oceansat-III.

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Postby SaiK » 30 Apr 2008 11:37

NASA has already done research and collected enough data on Earth, especially on the mineral and natural resources and chemical signatures. They are packing that piece for development, and would send it along with ? to Mars to obtain more info about mars chemistry.

I am not sure if the Virgin's CEO paid money for this, and his quest to settle in mars in about 100 years. They have plans to heat up mars env. by green house effects.

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Postby Brando » 30 Apr 2008 12:24

Personally, I would say that instead of wasting money on a moon mission to collect data that has already been collected we should master sending heavier payloads more accurately. More tests on platforms like GSLV-III etc so that we can capture more of the space fairing business and at the same time perfect the basics of rocket design and payload delivery.

I say this because if you look at NASA today, it is merely a shadow of its former self, that is because initially it was funded because of nationalistic ambitions of being number 1. Today as the price of launches has increased and with no real competition it is underfunded and starved for resources. Similarly, I believe that ISRO should take the path of economic self sufficiency first before it engages in flag waving. Otherwise down the road it may end up a neglected giant that withers away.

We may even have an advantage now as the Chinese and the Americans dont seem to be in any big hurry to corner the market. Plus, looking at the potential, it is enormous.

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Postby SSridhar » 30 Apr 2008 17:43

Cartosat-2A & IMS-1 cameras switched on
On April 29, 2008, the Multispectral camera onboard IMS-1 was switched on and high quality imagery covering Allahabad to Rameswaram was obtained. Today (April 30, 2008), the Hyper Spectral Imaging (HySI) camera onboard IMS-1 and panchromatic (PAN) camera onboard CARTOSAT-2A were switched on. Imagery from HySI camera covered Uttarakhand to Karnataka passing through Delhi and Bhopal. PAN camera covered strips of land from Saharanpur to Nuh (South of Delhi) and Sangli to Goa Coast. Data was received at National Remote Sensing Agency (NRSA), Shadnagar, Hyderabad. Quality of the imagery received is excellent.

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Postby SaiK » 30 Apr 2008 17:50

We should image our land totally. Then the next series of higher resolution comes in, we do the same, and compare., and further on. We could see new discoveries in locating more natural resources [of course exploited for the need based requirement].

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Postby rakall » 30 Apr 2008 18:18

SSridhar wrote:Cartosat-2A & IMS-1 cameras switched on
On April 29, 2008, the Multispectral camera onboard IMS-1 was switched on and high quality imagery covering Allahabad to Rameswaram was obtained. Today (April 30, 2008), the Hyper Spectral Imaging (HySI) camera onboard IMS-1 and panchromatic (PAN) camera onboard CARTOSAT-2A were switched on. Imagery from HySI camera covered Uttarakhand to Karnataka passing through Delhi and Bhopal. PAN camera covered strips of land from Saharanpur to Nuh (South of Delhi) and Sangli to Goa Coast. Data was received at National Remote Sensing Agency (NRSA), Shadnagar, Hyderabad. Quality of the imagery received is excellent.



Cant wait to see the photos !!

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Postby rsingh » 30 Apr 2008 18:28

Brando wrote:Personally, I would say that instead of wasting money on a moon mission to collect data that has already been collected we should master sending heavier payloads more accurately. More tests on platforms like GSLV-III etc so that we can capture more of the space fairing business and at the same time perfect the basics of rocket design and payload delivery.

I say this because if you look at NASA today, it is merely a shadow of its former self, that is because initially it was funded because of nationalistic ambitions of being number 1. Today as the price of launches has increased and with no real competition it is underfunded and starved for resources. Similarly, I believe that ISRO should take the path of economic self sufficiency first before it engages in flag waving. Otherwise down the road it may end up a neglected giant that withers away.

We may even have an advantage now as the Chinese and the Americans dont seem to be in any big hurry to corner the market. Plus, looking at the potential, it is enormous.


No no......the point is that we have to step-in before door close for membership of new exclusive club. We have to show that we are technically capable of exploring moon and claim the mineral resources. Exactly for this reason we went to south pole and now sending scientific team to north pole. We lost on UNSC and other exclusive clubs. No more mistakes!

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Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2008 20:46

Brando, The moon mission is one step in achieving higher accuracy. Read up on the guidance accuracy needed for that mission. Also the moon is like Antarctic that nations and people will stake claims to it. Its very important that India gets its share. All geo-politics is terrestial(My words)

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Postby Arun_S » 30 Apr 2008 20:51

ramana wrote:Brando, The moon mission is one step in achieving higher accuracy. Read up on the guidance accuracy needed for that mission. Also the moon is like Antarctic that nations and people will stake claims to it. Its very important that India gets its share. All geo-politics is terrestial(My words)

Star seeker (possibly full fledged Celestial Nav) become an integral part of precision flights that involve very long duration.

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Postby gogna » 30 Apr 2008 23:47

ISRO's Nano Satellite Launch Impress Global Clients
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vnc6rTLV2Y

Interview with the people behind nano satellites

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Postby JTull » 01 May 2008 15:06

India to deploy satellite maritime safety


01-05-2008 - India is setting up a new satellite-based information system using the Inmarsat network to enable vessel tracking for maritime security and also to permit faster search and rescue of vessels along its coastline.

The timely move by India brings it into line with latest maritime security guidelines of the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) Convention of the International Maritime Organisation (IMO).

India - a signatory to SOLAS - expects the long-range identification and tracking of ships (LRIT) operated via Inmarsat's network to be deployed by November 2008, in line with the IMO requirement that SOLAS signatories activate the system by 31 December, 2008.

The new system will track vessels travelling along India¿s coastline, including 5,000 foreign ships, using Inmarsat C and Mini C .

The system will track all SOLAS vessels over 300 gross tonnes, up to 1,000 nautical miles (1,852 km) from the Indian coastline.

Inmarsat head of maritime safety services Brian Mullan said: "This welcome announcement by India further reinforces what has been accepted by many countries already, that Inmarsat C and Mini C provide the technology of choice when it comes to maritime security and safety.

"Inmarsat C has been the core provider of distress and safety for the IMO Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) for all deep-sea SOLAS vessels, for more than 10 years. LRIT is a natural extension of these well-proven capabilities."

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Postby gogna » 01 May 2008 15:50

ISRO updated their chandrayaan web site, lot more info than before.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/home.htm

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Postby Kakarat » 01 May 2008 22:28


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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 02 May 2008 03:09

NASA names 'minor' planet after Indian

In a rare honour for an Indian, space agency NASA [Images] has named a 'minor' planet after a Kerala [Images] zoology professor in appreciation of his environmental research and campaigns.

Sainudeen Pattazhy, who teaches in a local college, was informed on Wednesday by Jet Propulsions Laboratory of the California Institute of Technology under NASA that minor planet '5178 No CD4' had been named after him.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/may/01nasa.htm

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Postby sunilUpa » 02 May 2008 05:52

There is talk that the launch of 10 satellites in 1000 seconds has given India the military capability to build missiles that can launch multiple warheads...

The DRDO is the agency tasked with military technologies and they are working on such technologies. Isro has no plans to do anything other than civilian missions. So far as the ability to launch and deliver multiple payloads to precise points and do that within a short time-frame, we have demonstrated that. Some of the technologies are similar for launc-hing multiple satellites or multiple warheads - inertial navigation system, velocity and attitude control systems, vernier engines, etc.

The DRDO also has these technologies
:)

link

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Postby disha » 02 May 2008 10:38

sunilUpa wrote:


The above link is a keeper. From the same link:

How did the rocket and its sub-systems perform, considering so many satellites were launched?

The measure of the total mission comes in terms of the orbital accuracy that is achieved. Normally, we can allow upto 35 km dispersion in altitude, and something like 0.1 degree in the inclination. Against this, what we have achieved is of the order of less than 7 km in altitude, and 0.005 degree in inclination. That shows that the targeting was precise and we don't have to use much on-board fuel to correct the orbit.


That is one Arjun-Chaap [Arjun mark] rocket. Right on the eye.

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Postby symontk » 02 May 2008 11:12

If the " :wink: " is meant to suggest that you beleive that the increased propellant loading of the PSOM-XL is being met by an increase in the diameter to 1.2 meters, you are incorrect.

The increased propellant loading of the PSOM-XL is being met by an increase in the length to 13.5 meters and not by an increase in diameter to 1.2 meters.
":wink: " is to think about what is coming down the pipe.
Of course the 1.2m dia baby is ~20 tonne mass (see stage confign on BR Agni--IIAT) and not the -XL 12 tonne puppy used here. :wink:


They can put a Prthivi (1.1M dia) over the 1.2M dia solid stage and create another launch vehicle. They can also use the second stage iof Agni II on top of this for launching the satellite. It should cater to the small satellite reqs for ISRO. Its actually a waste to send big PSLV to launch small satellites.

ISRO i believe still has the ASLV programme going on (telephone numbers are still there for the ASLV program), probably we will see some update to that.
Last edited by symontk on 02 May 2008 11:27, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Vidyarthi » 02 May 2008 11:14

Arun_S wrote:
Vidyarthi wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Congratulations to ISRO, a job well done!

In the future could people in this thread please place links to where a launch can be watched live? Its going to be a busy year for launches and its a significant event to watch. Thanks in advance.


I watched it live today, just like the previous several ones on DD National Channel. The telecast commences about 20 minutes before the scheduled lift-off. There is a running commentary by two senior specialists of ISRO, alternately in Hindi and English. Some time they also include a ten minute capsule, showing vehicle integration. The telecast shows the Mission Control Center and Plot boards displaying the predicted trajectory along with the actual trajectory.

Afraid, I do not know of any Internet link, giving lift-off live

Sir,
I think you might have watched PSLV launches up close too.
Wondering if you could share some thoughts on where ISRO/SAC is poised now and the progress made from the humbler days?

Thanks


Deep interest of contributors to this topic has prompted me to draw attention to a recently published fabulous source of authentic and comprehensive information on our Space Program:

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/dec252007/contents.htm
http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/dec252007/1645.pdf


Trust this info. is new to this topic!

It is a Special section on "Indian Space Programme - A Mutidimensional Perspective" in 25 Dec 2007 issue of CURRENT SCIENCE.

Apart from giving a rare data base, it delves in the evolution from humble beginning to present grandeur of our space program, its vision, socio-economic context, organizational uniqueness of ISRO, future directions in each of the streams and many more aspects. It gives nine articles authored by some of the top experts in ISRO/DOS and guest-edited by a former Chairman of ISRO.

Shall love to get feed back!

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Postby Arun_S » 02 May 2008 14:10

Wonderful pointers sir, enough for me to cud on for few weeks.

Almost all papers are new and educative but I very much liked the:

Space mission planning and operations

This is a crisp one:
Remote sensing applications: An overview: Ranganath R. Navalgund, V. Jayaraman and P. S. Roy

And this one is wonderful:
Spacecraft technology: V. R. Katti, K. Thyagarajan, K. N. Shankara and A. S. Kiran Kumar

Of course the vehicles and its smarts is every grown up kids joy:
Evolution of Indian launch vehicle technologies: S. C. Gupta, B. N. Suresh and K. Sivan

And Chandamama mission is educative:
Space astronomy and interplanetary exploration

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Postby ramana » 02 May 2008 19:41

I liked the Evolution article. Its a learning experience :).

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Postby ranganathan » 02 May 2008 19:58

Why does ISRO need the ASLV program? I thought they were building a PSLV lite by removing the second stage of the rocket. It should be able to send small sats upto 300-500 Kg?

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Postby ramana » 02 May 2008 23:24

ISRO webpage on IMS-1

Would be great if the HySi resolution is improved to help identify objects in the clutter. Great first step.

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Postby sauravjha » 02 May 2008 23:28

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 005122.cms

Kalam says india may become a superpower in the next 5 years.

Maybe some pretty nifty stuff is on the anvil.

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Postby Vivek K » 02 May 2008 23:33

Well, read the "may" too. A superpower whose airforce is struggling to cope up fleet strength issues? Also, a superpower does not need to give a time-table of when it will be a super-power.

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Postby Sridhar » 02 May 2008 23:47

Symontk/Ranganathan,

The ASLV is no longer a live project. It was never meant to be an operational launcher either. Its sole purpose was to help develop and validate technologies that would be used in the PSLV and subsequent launchers (e.g. strap-on motors, bulbous heat shield, closed-loop guidance). A secondary objective was also to help train a generation of scientists in the decade between the termination of the SLV-3 program and the first expected PSLV launch.

Valuable lessons were learnt from the four ASLV launches and the project terminated after that.
Last edited by Sridhar on 03 May 2008 19:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Arun_S » 03 May 2008 06:43

From Spacecraft technology: V. R. Katti, K. Thyagarajan, K. N. Shankara and A. S. Kiran Kumar

Key things:
Efforts are on to increase the specific impulse to 320 s by changing mixture ratio, increasing chamber pressure and increased nozzle area ratio.
PS4 ISP increased from 305 to 320; That translates to PSLV payload to GTO increases by 65 Kg (based on BR-ROCKSIM simulation)

The second stage of PSLV/GSLV and strap-on motors of GSLV used large turbo pump fed engines with N2O4 and unsymmetrical di-methyl hydrazine (UDMH) as propellants. It employs indigenous aluminum alloys and heavy-duty nozzle throat insert. The chamber pressure level has been increased to 58.5 bar with the increased propellant loading of 42 t. This stage provides specific impulse of 295 s.

L40/L42: PSLV/GSLV and strap-on motors of GSLV :
Mass increased from 40 to 42 tonne and
Specific impulse increased from 291 to 295 s.


GSLV-Mk-III L110 specs are emerging:

The GSLV Mk-III is configured with L110 as core liquid stage with 110 t as propellant loading, 4 m diameter and overall length of 16 m. The stage is configured with two clustered engines equipped with contoured nozzles of area ratio 31, which gives specific impulse of 294 s. Two cylindrical monocoque tanks are made of aluminum alloy.

Fuel = 110Tonne
ISP = 294
Burn time = 196 s

GSLV-Mk-III Cryo stage
The stage has propellant tanks for storing a total of 27 t of LOX and LH2 and is powered by a single cryogenic engine, working on gas
generator cycle developing a nominal thrust of 200 kN with an estimated vacuum specific impulse of 445 s.

Fuel = 25-27 Tonne
Thrust =18 Tonne
ISP = 445 sec

ROCKSIM indicates the C25 Mass fraction to be ~0.89

I can foresee that GSLV-Mk-4 may use RLV-200 solid strap-on with Semi-cryo core stage, eventually the RLV will be a hypersonic air-breathing cryo fuelled booster.
Last edited by Arun_S on 03 May 2008 10:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bubba » 03 May 2008 07:48

http://tinyurl.com/6g2pla

e2v provides Indian space centre’s sensors


Published: 02 May 2008 03:20 PM
Source: The Engineer Online

Essex-based e2v, a manufacturer of specialised components and subsystems, has won a contract to supply imaging sensors for the Indian Space Research Organisation’s (ISRO) new satellites.

The ISRO’s Space Application Centre will use e2v’s charged coupled devices (CCD) to build the Resourcesat 3 and Cartosat 3 satellites.

e2v’s time delay integration (TDI) CCD has anti-blooming functions and back thinning post processing to produce high-resolution images and enable applications that require high speed and high sensitivity; for example, to aid in disaster support.

The Cartosat 3 will have a single multi-spectral camera, while the Resourcesat 3 will employ three cameras: a LISS 4, LISS 3 and a multi-spectral camera. The LISS 4 and LISS 3 cameras will have 2.5m and 5m resolution respectively, and the multi-spectral camera will have a resolution of 1m in panchromatic mode and 2m in multi-spectral mode.

e2v specialises in developing electronic tubes and sensors and semiconductors for medical and scientific, aerospace and defence, and commercial and industrial applications.

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Postby Prasenjit Medhi » 03 May 2008 10:27

I am betting that the launch will be either just before Independence Day, at least a week or two before, so that the news window fades, in case it doesnt work out(though there is no reason that it shouldnt work out, ISRO is very professional), or, on Gandhi Jayanti.

Any takers? Losers may kowtow :)

If I lose, and the satellite launches, I will offer my hearty congratulations to ISRO onlee.

Manned Mission and space station, please, soooooon!

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Postby sauravjha » 03 May 2008 11:23

read the "may" too. A superpower whose airforce is struggling to cope up fleet strength issues? Also, a superpower does not need to give a time-table of when it will be a super-power.

Oh but i did . but you seem to have missed the 'may' and 'maybe' in my post. I am not concerned about the label 'superpower'. I am thinking about the occasion he said it on and the hint that there maybe possible new developments in the arena of space (that we haven't yet heard of). That was the point behind the post.
Because you may remember that Kalam made a statement in 2001 that India was capable of 'advanced ABM defenses' and five years thence we all know what happened.
Moreover, recently he made a statement that India is already capable of destroying any foreign object up to an altitude of 200Km.

And now this.

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Postby Gerard » 03 May 2008 18:04


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Postby Gerard » 03 May 2008 18:06


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Postby A Sharma » 04 May 2008 05:33

Zooming pride

SPACE
ISRO gets 10/10. And India may have just launched its first spy-sat
By R. Prasannan
The anxiety at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre was palpable. As the countdown ended, ISRO's chairman G. Madhavan Nair and his team could hardly believe their eyes. ISRO's pride was skyrocketing.
Despite their optimism, it was a nail-biting launch when Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) lifted off with 10 satellites from Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh on April 28.

A few days prior to the launch, low pressure over the Bay of Bengal was looming large. But it had luckily moved away. Even after the blast-off, there was a tense moment when the telemetry signal indicating separation of the eight nano-satellites did not reach the ground. Dark memories of the 25-year-old taunts when Indian satellite launch vehicles plunged into the sea returned.

But that was momentary; India had created history, surpassing the mightiest space powers. It was not luck, but perseverance and a "will to win", as Nair put it in another context, that made his team put the giant CARTOSAT, a mini-satellite and eight foreign nano-satellites into 600-km-high orbits. "We have shown the world that we can do multiple launches with precision," said Nair.

Indeed, it was a capability statement to the world, which had seen Proton Space Agency delivering seven, the European Space Agency five and the American NASA four satellites in one go into orbit. NASA had attempted a 10-satellite launch but failed. None except the Russians, with their 13 last year, had attempted to put so many satellites in one go into orbit.

The 'capability statement' contains several messages. The most obvious, of course, is that India is now a serious player in the satellite launch market into which the big powers had prevented India from entering by denying cryogenic engine technology for its Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV).

Indeed, the perfect-10 launch was by no means commercial. As the eight nano-satellites were built by universities in the Netherlands, Germany, Japan, Canada and Denmark, Antrix Corporation, ISRO's Rs 660-crore commercial arm, charged just $12,000 per kilogram. According to Antrix managing director Sridhara Murthi, the prevailing rate is more than $ 20,000.

Thus, the launch was a spectacular ad clip to the world. "Our costs will be about 60 per cent cheaper than what is charged by advanced countries," said Nair. A truly commercial launch will take place next year with GSLV Mark-3, which can carry a two-tonne satellite. Murthi expects that with GSLV, India will capture about 10 to 15 per cent of the $250-billion satellite launch market. Meanwhile, PSLV will continue to launch small and medium satellites, and of course the Chandrayaan satellite to the moon's orbit later this year.

The hoopla over the launch deflected world attention from the 690-kg CARTOSAT-2A, which many describe as India's first spy satellite, but ISRO prefers to call it a civilian satellite.

ISRO describes it as a state-of-the art remote sensing satellite with a spatial resolution of about one metre and a swath of 9.6km. The satellite carries a panchromatic camera capable of taking black-and-white pictures in the visible region of electromagnetic spectrum.
The highly agile CARTOSAT-2A is steerable along as well as across its course to facilitate imaging of any area more frequently. According to Nair, one-metre resolution is required for many civilian applications, including checking alignment while building roads.

Perhaps because of the sensitivity involved, Indian scientists have been reluctant to talk about CARTOSAT's potential. As they had been talking about its launch in August, the April 28 launch was a surprise to many. According to ISRO, "Soon after separation from PSLV-C9's fourth stage, the two solar panels of CARTOSAT-2A were deployed.... High-resolution data from CARTOSAT-2A will be invaluable in urban and rural development applications calling for large-scale mapping."

The fact is that one-metre camera resolution is widely acknowledged to be ideal for military.
An officer in the Indian Air Force's space cell, set up in anticipation of a government clearance for an aerospace command, observed, "Defence services at present play only a passive role as captive customers, making use of limited satellite capability. This is now expected to change slowly. At least a beginning has been made."

The earlier-launched CARTOSAT-2 had military applications, and reports from IAF's space cell had described it as a military satellite. Incidentally, Squadron Leader K.K.Nair, joint director, operations (space) at Indian Air Force headquarters, wrote in the United Service Institution Journal, "Civilian earth-observation satellites are used for military remote-sensing; civilian (even commercial) communication satellites have been known to carry military transponders and military navigation satellites have overwhelming civilian users...."

Thus, the perfect-10 launch marks a deviation from the course that Indian space programme has been following till now. "India's strength all along has been in satellite-building and remote-sensing, and the world powers were expecting that India would put its remote-sensing capabilities for strategic use," pointed out a scientist. "We could have done it long ago, but as a developing nation, we had put our priorities in the civilian sector, especially in communication. Thus, the launch of CARTOSAT-2A is also a kind of strategic statement on the part of India."

The Indian armed forces have been requesting ISRO for two more imaging satellites. China has six dedicated military satellites, though it is not known how many of them are for spying and how many for communication. "With three, we will be able to cover the entire South Asian region," said an Indian Navy officer.


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