Indian Space Program Discussion

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Sanjay M
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Postby Sanjay M » 09 Jun 2008 10:29

sanjaykumar wrote:No, the Martian atmosphere is 1% as dense as Earth's (.01 atm)


That is 2 orders of magnitude.

http://tinyurl.com/5xa6ql
Breakthrough in Mars balloon technology


Probes in orbit already generate data that may take over a decade to analyse.

I think the problems will be transport, deployment navigation and leakage, but interesting results on some NASA web pages as well.


Apologies, I misread your exponent.

Anyway, balloons could take much closer and more detailed measurements and images that are simply too difficult to take from orbit. Far more could be learned about the geological processes of Mars with up-close imaging, of the kind that the rovers and landers have done.

I think we should look at synthesizing some kind of graphene-doped polymer to construct the balloon from, for maximum strength and also maximum barrier against gas diffusion.

As for deployment and navigation, we can do extensive testing here on Earth, as balloons aren't terribly expensive and complicated a technology.

After all, such balloons could even be used here on Earth, as long-loiter UAVs, or wireless telecom relays, etc.

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Postby Neela » 09 Jun 2008 12:57

Neshant wrote:Vikram is an array of x86 processors used in parallel, not a single chip as you have incorrectly assumed. It is basically a parallel computer with a bus architecture linking these independant chips together.

Likewise with Param although param is more of a full fledged computer. The word Vikram "microchip" is misleading.

That is what I've heard about it anyways.

Assuming that is all the Vikram 'microchip' is, its not of any major significance and probably obsolete by now.

You can get military grade (not sure about rad-hard) processors from COTS.


This link clearly states that Vikram is a replacement for MC68000
http://domain-b.com/aero/20070425_indigenous.htm

And since ISRO had used the MC68000 , the architecture is NOT x86 but M68k.
See link here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M68k

The 68k line of processors has been used in a variety of systems, from modern high-end Texas Instruments calculators (the TI-89, TI-92, and Voyage 200 lines) to older members of the palm pilot series, and even radiation hardened versions in the critical control systems of the Space Shuttle.


A architecture refers to the instruction set and in turn refers to how internal circuits and logic are built in a processor.


The instruction set was much more "orthogonal" than those of many processors that came before (e.g., 8080) and after (e.g., x86). That is, it was typically possible combine operations freely with operands, rather than being restricted to using certain addressing modes with certain instructions. This property made programming relatively easy for humans, and also made it easier to write code generators for compilers.



Whats this means is that the software (assembly language?) instructions that ISRO wrote for MC68000 would be compatible with the Vikram processor.

ISRO does not need the latest quad core processors. You dont need a bus linked arrayed processors in a launch vehicle u nless you want to solve CFD problems halfway up the air.
I had given a example of valve control in my earlier post. That could possible be one of a myriad of tasks a single processor can do.

Another example would be to monitor the temparaure of the cryogenic fuel. Typically sensors would monitor the temparature of the tanks and send the value to the processor which would check if it is ok. When a anomaly is sensed , (a leak ? ) the processor would send an interrupt which could mean a aborted launch or a self-destruct operation depending on where the vehicle is. And there could be hundreds of such a parameters.

And note that ISRO need not be the only recipient of processor. If AAD requires on-board processing then maybe there too?

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Postby Neela » 09 Jun 2008 13:20

surinder wrote:
Neshant wrote:BTW US is reportedly angry with Taiwan for having transferred all the semiconductor technology that was given to that country over to their bros China.


Any source for this information?

As far as I know, the technology given to Taiwan was given by private corporations, US govt had little, if any, control over that.


The Chinese have in the past tried to steal IP from the US.
The Fei Ye case with Sun Microsystems is an example.

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/yeIndict.htm


What Neshant said is quite possible.

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Postby Neela » 09 Jun 2008 13:21

Arun_S

Point noted.

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Postby Arun_S » 09 Jun 2008 13:45

Neela wrote:This link clearly states that Vikram is a replacement for MC68000
http://domain-b.com/aero/20070425_indigenous.htm

You are reading too much into the term replacement. Replacement does not mean replacement with same family architecture, it could be (and generally is) replacement with a more advanced architecture that is more valuable for the intended application.

And since ISRO had used the MC68000 , the architecture is NOT x86 but M68k.
See link here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M68k

The 68k line of processors has been used in a variety of systems, from modern high-end Texas Instruments calculators (the TI-89, TI-92, and Voyage 200 lines) to older members of the palm pilot series, and even radiation hardened versions in the critical control systems of the Space Shuttle.


A architecture refers to the instruction set and in turn refers to how internal circuits and logic are built in a processor.

The instruction set was much more "orthogonal" than those of many processors that came before (e.g., 8080) and after (e.g., x86). That is, it was typically possible combine operations freely with operands, rather than being restricted to using certain addressing modes with certain instructions. This property made programming relatively easy for humans, and also made it easier to write code generators for compilers.



Whats this means is that the software (assembly language?) instructions that ISRO wrote for MC68000 would be compatible with the Vikram processor.


I may be thick here but please show me where exactly does it say that Vikram processor is object code compatible with MC68000, or that the requirement is that old MC68K code need be carried forward to the new Vikram based platform?

As an aside code written in "Ada" or "C" for MC68K will largely be portable to any other processor that has "Ada" or "C" compiler. So porting to a new Motorola processor or non-Motorola processor is about a wash. {One would still strive to write efficient Hardware Abstraction Layer so that the code can run on evolving/enhanced target boards. No? }

ISRO does not need the latest quad core processors. You dont need a bus linked arrayed processors in a launch vehicle u nless you want to solve CFD problems halfway up the air.
I had given a example of valve control in my earlier post. That could possible be one of a myriad of tasks a single processor can do.

Another example would be to monitor the temparaure of the cryogenic fuel. Typically sensors would monitor the temparature of the tanks and send the value to the processor which would check if it is ok. When a anomaly is sensed , (a leak ? ) the processor would send an interrupt which could mean a aborted launch or a self-destruct operation depending on where the vehicle is. And there could be hundreds of such a parameters.

With much first hand experience under its belt with various mil and civil rockets I will not be surprised if the new Vikram based architecture uses MIL-STD-1760 or MIL-STD-1553/1773 communications bus to connect distributed sensors / actuators. Recall that India was amongst the first to use the aircraft/avionics oriented MIL-STD-1553 bus for rocketry on Agni-II missile.

BTW when I was first introduced to MIL-STD-1553, I saw very strong architectural/message/scnerio similarity with HPIB/GPIB/IEEE-488 bus, essentially it is a HPIB bus implemented via Serializer/deserializer.

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Postby Neela » 09 Jun 2008 14:26

I may be thick here but please show me where exactly does it say that Vikram processor is object code compatible with MC68000, or that the requirement is that old MC68K code need be carried forward to the new Vikram based platform?

As an aside code written in "Ada" or "C" for MC68K will largely be portable to any other processor that has "Ada" or "C" compiler. So porting to a new Motorola processor or non-Motorola processor is about a wash. {One would still strive to write efficient Hardware Abstraction Layer so that the code can run on evolving/enhanced target boards. No? }



Arun , I am talking purely from the processor architecture point of view.
My statement was based on one assumption: Why would ISRO want to change the processor architecture when it has been proven ?
And I assumed that to counter sanctions, they developed the Vikram
Do let me know if this assumption is wrong.


With much first hand experience under its belt with various mil and civil rockets I will not be surprised if the new Vikram based architecture uses MIL-STD-1760 or MIL-STD-1553/1773 communications bus to connect distributed sensors / actuators. Recall that India was amongst the first to use the aircraft/avionics oriented MIL-STD-1553 bus for rocketry on Agni-II missile.

BTW when I was first introduced to MIL-STD-1553, I saw very strong architectural/message/scnerio similarity with HPIB/GPIB/IEEE-488 bus, essentially it is a HPIB bus implemented via Serializer/deserializer.


I was countering Neshant's statement. He mentioned that Vikram is a array of x86 processors.

Here is a link:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1983naec....1..639F

That uses a Mc68000 in the 1553 .

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 10 Jun 2008 07:36

CIC Castigates ISRO For Denying Information
by Staff Writers
New Delhi, India (PTI) Jun 10, 2008
The Central Information Commission has castigated the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for taking a stand that information relating to the Defence Ministry was not a public activity, and asked it to reveal the details to an RTI applicant.

"The stand taken in the hearing by respondents (ISRO) that matters concerning the Ministry of Defence do not concern public activity is absurd. Are we to infer thereby that in the view of the department of space, all that the Ministry of Defence is occupied with is private activity," asked the Chief Information Commissioner Wajahat Habibullah.

The Commission directed the ISRO to re-examine the plea of Delhi resident Harish V Shankar, seeking information on 17 counts pertaining to the relationship between Semiconductor Complex Ltd (SCL) and Director General Married Accommodation Project (DGMAP).

To Shankar's queries, the department of space had denied the details, citing exemptions under the RTI Act and taking a stand that the information sought had no relationship to any public activity or interest.

"When asked specifically as how the question -- Is SCL associated with DGMAP -- is found exempted, he (officer concerned) stated that this concerns the Ministry of Defence and, therefore, was not information concerning any public activity," the Commission noted.

Referring to a decision of the Delhi High Court, Habibullah said that access to information under the RTI Act was the rule and exemptions are an exception.

The Commission asked the ISRO to provide the information to the RTI applicant within 30 days with a direction that matters concerning Defence Ministry should be transferred to the ministry for disposal.

Source: Press Trust of India

Agents of law abiding foreign countries to entrap India to limit itself to civilian activity.
What next? Hand over its security to the fair & trustworthy foreign armies (history repeats after 200 years again)?

BTW this is just the trailor, this is what happens when India fails to defend the principal of equally & sovereignty.
Anyone recalls the "Now that we have established that you are a prostitute, now we are only determining the right price for your service". On the slippery slope when helmsmen sleep and fail to defend India.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Sanku » 10 Jun 2008 14:31

Arun_S; Rahul M, SanjayC, Neela et al. many thanks for the wishes; I am limping back to my laptop after being rather ill for a while.

Rahul M -- I do think that the answers that I wanted to say are more or less covered in the discussion that happened here. So I guess I have nothing more to add unless there are specific questions you have of me.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 10 Jun 2008 14:51


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby rrao » 10 Jun 2008 19:32

Arun saar!

The ser/des is generally used for point to point communication between 2 units using either coax,copper wires(shielded twisted pair) with LVDS drivers and singlemode fiber optic cables(for long haul). the protocol followed is similar to oc-48 and /or custom made. The speeds can go up to 2.2Gb/s.We made one such fiber optic link for MMR( :cry: ) in association with a pvt vendor. i have not come across HPIB/GPIB parallel bus protocols being implemented using ser/des. another thing ,why a processor is being mentioned for 1553B bus interface implementation? 1553B chips/hybrids are available from DDC,national hybrid ,UTMC etc...as stand alone peripherals which needs processor support only for data transfers and data interpretations. nowadays 1553 protocol is available as an IPcore which can be put on xilinx,actel,altera FPGAs with external transceivers! A small 8 bit micro controller like 8751 for RT implementation is sufficient. Where as for full fledged BC(bus controller ) a 32 bit kind of micro processor is needed to meet the demands of 31 RTs .please correct me if i am wrong!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby A Sharma » 10 Jun 2008 19:47

FROM MOD Press Release

Special cell set up to counter growing threat to space assets

The Defence Minister Shri AK Antony today announced the formation of an Integrated Space Cell under the aegis of the Integrated Defence Services Head Quarters to counter ‘the growing threat to our space assets’. Addressing the Unified Commanders’ Conference here, he said, although we want to utilize space for peaceful purposes and remain committed to our policy of non-weaponisation of space, ‘offensive counter space systems like anti-satellite weaponry, new classes of heavy-lift and small boosters and an improved array of Military Space Systems have emerged in our neighbourhood’. Shri Antony said the new Cell will act as a single window for integration among the Armed Forces, the Department of Space and the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 13 Jun 2008 21:05

Rocket fuel as cheap as a bottle of water

A litre of rocket fuel that costs less than a bottle of bottled drinking water! India has begun research activities to make this a reality with a view to bringing down launch expenses.

Scientists at ISRO’s Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre have entered the second stage of a research programme to gift the country with a semi-cryogenic fuel known as loxkerosene at a cost of less than Rs 15/kg. The solid fuel that powers rockets costs about Rs 1500/kg.

Lox-kerosene consists of refined kerosene and liquid oxygen. “The kerosene will cost about Rs 18/litre and liquid oxygen Rs 6/litre. A litre of lox-kerosene will cost only about Rs 12 to 15/litre,” sources told this website's newspaer.

ISRO is in talks with senior scientists of Ukraine to update its knowhow. “Ukraine will not be a partner in this venture.We’re engaged in technological consultation with Ukraine. It’s scientific community played a big role in developing semi-cryogenic technology during the USSR days,” the sources added.

India is decades behind the US and Russia in the development of semicryogenic technology. In fact, the US used the liquid oxygen-kerosene combination to land Armstrong on the moon. “They used lox-kerosene to power a 500-tonne vehicle. Our search is for a cocktail that can develop a 200- tonne thrust,” sources said.

Interestingly, India’s search for semi-cryogenic technology follows close on the heels of the initial success of its cryogenic engine. After a decade’s delay, LPSC was able to complete a 720-second firing of the cryogenic engine at a Mahendragiri test bed last year.

Scientists, however, point out that lox-kerosene will be a better proposition for more reasons than its economical impact. Storage is one of them.

Cryogenic needs liquid hydrogen and oxygen. But storing liquid hydrogen is more challenging than storing kerosene. The emphasis must be on semi-cryogenic research as there’s nothing left to prove in cryogenic technology beyond what the world knows. But semi-cryogenic is an emerging area with the concern over mounting launch costs echoing around the world.

India is planning to develop the technology by 2012 to power its reusable launch vehicle (RLV), envisaged to make the country a low-cost destination for space launches.


http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEX20080612165827&Page=X&Title=Kochi&Topic=0

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 14 Jun 2008 02:58

rrao wrote:Arun saar!

The ser/des is generally used for point to point communication between 2 units using either coax,copper wires(shielded twisted pair) with LVDS drivers and singlemode fiber optic cables(for long haul). the protocol followed is similar to oc-48 and /or custom made. The speeds can go up to 2.2Gb/s.We made one such fiber optic link for MMR( :cry: ) in association with a pvt vendor. i have not come across HPIB/GPIB parallel bus protocols being implemented using ser/des. another thing ,why a processor is being mentioned for 1553B bus interface implementation? 1553B chips/hybrids are available from DDC,national hybrid ,UTMC etc...as stand alone peripherals which needs processor support only for data transfers and data interpretations. nowadays 1553 protocol is available as an IPcore which can be put on xilinx,actel,altera FPGAs with external transceivers! A small 8 bit micro controller like 8751 for RT implementation is sufficient. Where as for full fledged BC(bus controller ) a 32 bit kind of micro processor is needed to meet the demands of 31 RTs .please correct me if i am wrong!

Rrao saar, I am/was referring to striking similarity between HPIB and 1553B communication protocol. Look at the communication primitives and you will see. Like HPIB the 1553B is a bus, a bus master centered common protocol. Just that instead of using 8 bit digial data lines (apart from other lines) the 1553B uses 1 line (with data serialization/deserialization) to carry what on HPIB is byte oriented data transfer.

So when master sends out a command all slaves on the serial bus receive the command (via serializer/deserializers) but only addressed slave(s) process the command. So serializer/deserializers do not always have to be point to point connection between 2 nodes.


Yes ser/des and LVDS implementation are rather new, but I will not be surprised to see high speed serial but using differential signaling in near future. A version of I2C or SPI on differential signaling for faster data rate and longer distance.

As for why processor is being mentioned, I think 1553B is simply yet another peripheral with built-in message filter mask (like Ethernet or CAN bus) on the CPU chip, allowing compact & robust slave embedded controller implementation. Just as you mention about IP blocks on FPGA.


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby putnanja » 17 Jun 2008 04:18


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vsudhir » 17 Jun 2008 06:18


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby A Sharma » 18 Jun 2008 18:21

ISRO ties up with BrahMos unit

The BrahMos Aerospace unit here has signed an agreement with the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for taking up engineering and integration of the space agency's launch vehicles PSLV and GSLV.

The Rs 25-crore pact involves work on ISRO's tankages, special aluminium work and all titanium work, a senior BrahMos official said here today.

The Brahmos facility will also take up space-tech related infrastructure work for ISRO's future missions.

Brahmos Aerospace established its unit here early this year by taking over the state-owned Kerala High-tech Industries Ltd (KELTEC).

Even when it was a state-run facility, the unit used to supply some components and sub-assemblies to the ISRO as well as other central scientific and defence agencies like the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 19 Jun 2008 04:40

ISRO ties up with BrahMos unit
The BrahMos Aerospace unit here has signed an agreement with the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for taking up engineering and integration of the space agency's launch vehicles PSLV and GSLV.

The Rs 25-crore pact involves work on ISRO's tankages, special aluminium work and all titanium work, a senior BrahMos official said here on Wednesday.

The Brahmos facility will also take up space-tech related infrastructure work for ISRO's future missions.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2008 23:40




This is becoming a big thing all over the world. The worry is how fast can LEO sats be restored in case of such a strike. The saving grace is the PRC shot was a direct overfly kill and not a co-orbital kill vehicle. Maybe they will show that later.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2008 23:42

Gerard wrote:ISRO ties up with BrahMos unit
The BrahMos Aerospace unit here has signed an agreement with the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for taking up engineering and integration of the space agency's launch vehicles PSLV and GSLV.

The Rs 25-crore pact involves work on ISRO's tankages, special aluminium work and all titanium work, a senior BrahMos official said here on Wednesday.

The Brahmos facility will also take up space-tech related infrastructure work for ISRO's future missions.


It looks like not a new contract but a facility ownership change. I dont understnad why the press release was issued. Will invite more headaches for India

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SaiK » 20 Jun 2008 00:53

why should it be ramana? why live under this khan rule fears? aren't we open democracy (atleast tending to be near completion to that thought) with high responsibilities?

if raytheon can fix or make things for nasa, why not brahmos company do the same for isro?

i understand about the issues related with many treaties that restricts supplies to us, and thus, we are succumbing into the sanctions world that restricts everything based on how and who poodles with unkill.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vishwakarmaa » 20 Jun 2008 02:34

Sanctions work on "mentally weak" states and population, who lives on "spoon-feeding" of "imported" stuff.

Its time to leave this "self-imposed" notion of "fear" by our leaders and take steps with confidence.

Your "confidence" is what they fear.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 20 Jun 2008 02:38

Saik, Everyone knows that ISRO is a civlian organization and has no links to the DRDO. Why is the fool reporter, am sure based on a briefing from the Brahmos PR guy, gloating that ISRO buys from them as if its a new thing, whereas it was Brahmos that bought the facility that happened to be making the stuff for ISRO. In case anyone forgot just a few days ago some guy selling old chips got put into prison to highlight the toughness of US Admin vis a vis India.

My point is no need for that BS report for it invites attention. also the Chandrayan is supposed to carry US instruments and hence everyting ISRO does will have scrutiny.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vishwakarmaa » 20 Jun 2008 03:53

ramana wrote:My point is no need for that BS report for it invites attention. also the Chandrayan is supposed to carry US instruments and hence everyting ISRO does will have scrutiny.


Period of "self-denial" is over. Interesting times ahead! :P


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SaiK » 20 Jun 2008 05:33

On the microprocessor, i agree that its outdated.. but imho, nothing that should cause it be out of control of sanction regime? my concern is why the he!! are we buying or even tendering for COTs if we had known it being a controlled product. Lets get into the shoes of the seller for a while and think about it. OTOH, it is highly stupid of khan to complain in the sense, how come such a big sale is made without even checking who is the end party. Sope, as far as I can tell, this microproc issue is a game that we have a hand too, in that we just ignored how the seller might have gotten the product.

BTW, Did AMD churn out any microprocessor yet from their bangalore div yet? they started about 3/4 years ago. A microprocessor developing nation for COTs end, should not take have to struggle through to buy out dated stuffs and get heckled like this. Its fine who cares about that cirrus guy.. but our reference makes it a black soot on our face. We should not do this in the future., and have stricter regulatory body that scrutinize things before it gets out our hand.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Sanjay M » 20 Jun 2008 14:27

It's official -- there's water on Mars. That white solid stuff is frozen water ice. The Martian polar icecaps are full of the stuff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/scien ... 0mars.html

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Juggi G » 20 Jun 2008 17:39


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SSridhar » 21 Jun 2008 05:22

2009 to be a busy year for ISRO

Excerpts. . .
[quote]It has six major launches, starting with perhaps the most challenging Chandrayan I (moon mission), which is expected in September.

Following Chandrayan I, will be about 5 launches in 2009. These include RISAT (Radar Imaging Satellite), ASTROSAT (Astronomy Satellite), the Indo-French Megha-Tropiques and two commercial launches, he told newspersons on the sidelines of a technology event organised by the Andhra Pradesh Akademi of Sciences (APAS), here today.

Asked if the Indo-French Joint Mission called Megha-Tropiques, now scheduled for launch in 2009, was delayed, Mr Nair said “No. Some of the technical problems have taken time to be sorted out and it is ready for launch. The project costs around Rs 120 crore”.[quote]

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 22 Jun 2008 06:20

Mr Nair refused to be drawn into commenting on either the need for a unified space command or the allegations of involvement of an NRI scientist in passing secrets to the ISRO and defence establishments.


:eek:
A Singaporean businessman selling Intel i960 processors, resistors and capacitors (stuff you can buy in any Radio shack) morphs into an "NRI scientist passing secrets to ISRO"?
Sudarshan claimed the end user was NPOL (the Naval Physical & Oceanographic Laboratory in Kochi). Instead he shipped them to HAL and VSSC. He lied on the end user certificate. This has become the stuff of spy novels?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Neshant » 22 Jun 2008 07:48

US has transferred lock, stock and barrel its semiconductor design & fabrication methodologies to Taiwan which in turn has gleefully passed it on to China for profit. Enitre factories have been relocated to China from Taiwan.

Meanwhile they are after one Indian guy for outdated processors.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Neshant » 23 Jun 2008 05:41

amazing, worth a view.


The Hubble Deep Field: The Most Important Image Ever Taken

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Raveen » 23 Jun 2008 09:39

outdated processors.

I repeat myself, why blame the world...if that design is so outdated then shame on us for not having one of our own!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby prashanth » 24 Jun 2008 18:01

Neshant,
Read between the lines. For some reason( may be the n deal) US is not pleased with India. They are trying to force India into submission by blowing things out of proportion. If India reacts aloud, we will be the losers. Better put this issue under the carpet and find some alternative to the controversial processor.

Raveen,
Making processors isn't easy. It calls for massive investment,involves lot of R&D stuff, and certainly takes time. You cannot expect the BEL or DRDO to make processors, for commercialization. It is the failure of the Indian private sector. Govt of India is not to blame.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby venkat_r » 24 Jun 2008 19:10

No silly conspiracy theories please. And please let that processors issue to rest and move on.

svinayak
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby svinayak » 24 Jun 2008 21:56

prashanth wrote:
Raveen,
Making processors isn't easy. It calls for massive investment,involves lot of R&D stuff, and certainly takes time. You cannot expect the BEL or DRDO to make processors, for commercialization. It is the failure of the Indian private sector. Govt of India is not to blame.

I know a person who has experience in 6 foundaries in the world. He was in the advisory board in India. He has given up any new ones coming to India. This is a strategic space and it needs political strategic groups to get it done even with pvt companies.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Raveen » 24 Jun 2008 23:09

I know a person who has experience in 6 foundaries in the world. He was in the advisory board in India. He has given up any new ones coming to India. This is a strategic space and it needs political strategic groups to get it done even with pvt companies.


If you dont blame GOI for not encouraging, and investing money in technologies like this, then I really dont know who is to be blamed!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby svinayak » 24 Jun 2008 23:38

Raveen wrote:
If you dont blame GOI for not encouraging, and investing money in technologies like this, then I really dont know who is to be blamed!

Time is over for blaming. Rapid market changes needs special groups to make decision and adapt quickly

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Raveen » 25 Jun 2008 02:40

Time is over for blaming. Rapid market changes needs special groups to make decision and adapt quickly
Raveen wrote:
If you dont blame GOI for not encouraging, and investing money in technologies like this, then I really dont know who is to be blamed!

Time is over for blaming. Rapid market changes needs special groups to make decision and adapt quickly


Huh? I am sorry I didnt get what you were trying to say there!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sunilUpa » 25 Jun 2008 06:15

Satellite to study climate change

Bangalore: Few issues have taken the global centre stage as did climate change recently, and images of melting polar ice caps and rising sea levels are now all too ubiquitous to ignore.

But how much do we really know about global warming? What is the quantity of greenhouse gases — carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and methane — in our atmosphere? How are they distributed around the world?

Some answers might be brought back by I-STAG, a satellite to be launched by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in 2012, in a unique collaborative initiative with science institutes.

“I-STAG, (Indian Satellite for Aerosol and Gases) is a small satellite, weighing no more than 150 kg and will most likely go as a co-passenger with one of the major launches scheduled for 2012,” R. Sridharan, Programme director, Space Science Office, ISRO, told The Hindu. It will be placed in a low Earth orbit at 600 km.

In its two-year life span, I-STAG will collect data on the quantity and distribution of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, aerosols (suspended particulate matter), ozone, water vapour and the oxides of nitrogen and sulphur so that an estimate can be made on their impact on climate.

“The satellite will have a special focus on the tropics and will monitor the spatial and temporal variation in the amount of these gases to assess their long-term effect on the climate and ecosystem,” said Prof. Sridharan.

The experiments would also attempt to estimate the impact of biomass burning and forest fires on climate.

I-STAG will be developed jointly by the Indian Institute of Science, the Space Physics Laboratory in Thiruvananthapuram, the Physical Research Laboratory in Ahmedabad, and the National Atmospheric Research Laboratory in Tirupati.


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