Indian Space Program Discussion

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 29 Aug 2008 15:52

Students too join ISRO’s satellite project

Hemanth CS | ENS
29 Aug 2008 05:50:00 AM IST

BANGALORE: The complicated business of designing and developing space applications and putting space satellites on board will no longer be restricted to scientists or technocrats; students too are set to be part of India’s latest space mission. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), which is currently undertaking the “youth satellite” project, a dedicated satellite for scientific experiments, has the participation of undergraduate and post graduate students. The youth satellite, according to ISRO, will be launched next year from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota on board a polar satellite launch vehicle (PSLV) for conducting experiments on remote sensing and observing outer space.

Students of the Moscow University and Andhra University, along with other education institutions, have already been involved in the project, DVA Raghava Murthy, project director, Youth Satellite told to this website's newspaper. “The configuration of the three payloads has already been finalised. One payload for solar fare observing (SOLRAD) is being currently developed by students of Moscow University.

The other two payloads which the launch vehicle will carry are being developed in India,” he said. The two payloads currently being developed by students in Indian universities are the astrospheric limb viewing payload and the radiobeacon for ionospheric tomography (RABIT) payload. This apart, ISRO has also finalised the configuration of the main spacecraft, which is said to be in the fabrication stage.

Students of Andhra University and other institutions have been pursuing the project; a project team of around 30 ISRO officials are also involved. The Banaras Hindu University is said to have evinced an interest in being part of the youth satellite project, which is the brainchild of former President Abdul Kalam, who incidentally, during his visit to the city, christened the project the “youth satellite” project.

The project will help in conducting experiments in galactic observation and atmospheric studies. “The young students will benefit a great deal through the experiments, as they will be involved in the data utilisation process,” said Raghava Murthy.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... zZRCAUTQ==

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 30 Aug 2008 14:40

Unkil's LRO launch has been delayed from October 2008 to February 2009. This gives NASA some breathing space to conduct few more tests on the spacecraft. Shows the 'uncertain' nature of such high tech missions where even a 'pro' like US has to grapple with issues.
But the official line NASA is peddling is that a USAF payload needs to be launched early.

http://www.itwire.com/index2.php?option ... 1&id=20098

A timeline for the LRO assembly & integration

http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/hardware.html

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SSridhar » 31 Aug 2008 06:33


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby rachel » 01 Sep 2008 09:03

The I2K bus is quite successful, being the basis of EADS HYLAS and W2M.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 01 Sep 2008 17:50

http://timesnow.tv/NewsDtls.aspx?NewsId=14910

India set to launch a reusable spacecraft

India is surging ahead literally out of this world as Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) begins work on a wholly indigenous effort to build a space shuttle that will carry Indians into the space like US space shuttle, Columbia. India is planning to launch a reusable spacecraft for the first time in 2010 and to send a mission to Mars as early as 2012.

India has been successfully developing space program in recent years and regularly launching satellites using booster rockets. But with a little cooperation with either USA or Russia, India will be able to cut the huge costs and share technology to build its own shuttle. India has agreements with both and could get help from either or both countries.

Former ISRO Chairman, Dr K Kasturirangan, and now advisor says the first prototype is a few years away, “The instruments and the satellite are under the final tests in ISRO satellite centre. So this will take a month and a half for to go through these tests and make sure that all the systems are behaving normally under the conditions of the space. Subsequently, there will be flight readiness review and a mission readiness review. I can except anything earliest could be the next two months.”

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Rupesh » 01 Sep 2008 18:00

Mars mission by 2012 :?: considering it has taken ISRO so long for a moon mission, 2012 for Mars seems doubtful.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 01 Sep 2008 18:02

Is resuable plane referring to

'Aerobic Vehicle for hypersonic Aerospace TrAnpoRtation' (AVATAR) :-?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby NRao » 01 Sep 2008 19:38

A scramjet that cruises at 17290 km/hr

An Indian double has caught global attention in the hypersonic race for cheap and cost effective launch technology.

Bidding for their rightful place among the world’s majors, two of the country’s premier agencies are in the advanced stages of proving scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) technology to meet their respective strategic needs.

While the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is working on the Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV) for launching satellites, the Defence research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is dreaming about a Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator (HSTD) to carry a range of weapons faster and farther.

Both have set a 2010 deadline. And both are in the pre-fabrication stage. But ISRO has the edge as it has already carried out a seven-second experimental combustion of a test engine. To state that both the projects are progressing at somewhat the same pace won’t be far off the mark.

But there’s a remarkable design difference between the RLV and the HSTD. ISRO’s hypersonic plane, being built at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), Thiruvananthapuram, is a winged body while the HSTD is a sleeker structure. The only common architecture, perhaps, is the air intake scoop at the front through which atmospheric air will be sucked in before oxygen is separated from it to oxidise the onboard fuel.

This is how the scramjet bypasses the need to carry an oxidiser on board. In a conventional rocket, the fuel and oxidiser are stored separately and burnt in a regulated combustion of eight grams of oxygen to one gram of fuel. But in the scramjet, oxygen is isolated from the air, compressed and introduced to a stream of fuel.

To ensure that sufficient oxygen is ingested for a self-sustaining flight, the scramjet must get to supersonic speeds before going ahead with its designated mission of launching a satellite for ISRO or delivering a warhead for DRDO.

This speed is achieved by coupling the scramjet to a conventional rocket during the initial phase of the flight. "We will mount the RLV prototype on a sounding rocket (S9). The rocket will speed it up to Mach 5 before the body is allowed to surf and suck air for onboard combustion. This process fires the scramjet and propels the payload to the desired orbit at speeds between Mach 8 and 10," says VSSC director K Radhakrishnan.

The DRDO plans to use a core-alone Agni stage (S1). The capsule containing the HSTD will ride on Agni to stratospheric heights. After the first stage separates, the capsule shifts to a horizontal alignment and opens up to allow the HSTD to skim the atmosphere and breathe air.

“We’re in an advanced stage. The shock tunnel test will soon be conducted. Our plan is to have a 400-second flight by 2009,’’ says M S Sundareshan, technical adviser at the Defence Research and Development Laboratory, Hyderabad. The DRDL is currently firing its test engine in a ground facility.

“The initial results are promising. We achieved significant thrust value,” says Sundareshan, adding that achieving hypersonic levels is a challenge that no nation except the US has met. The DRDO needs such speeds for weapon delivery at very great distances. The job is now done by Inter Continental Ballistic Missiles.

But like space rockets, ICBMs are a very costly chemical proposition. “The hyperplane can fly in at fast speeds, fire the missile or launch the warhead and return. The reusability will reduce our costs significantly,” says DRDL director Dr Venugopalan.

Cost figures in ISRO’s calculus as well. “The cost of launching a satellite using conventional rockets like the PSLV or GSLV is $25,000 to $28,000 per kg. The scramjet can reduce it to $500. This will make any nation with such a technology a launch destination,” says Radhakrishnan.

One great attraction is that the RLV can be brought back and reused. “The conventional rocket is expendable. Each stage burns out as the payload soars. But the RLV will come back after its mission,” he says.

ISRO will land the RLV on the sea using parachutes. But a project to facilitate its landing like an unmanned aircraft is on the anvil. DRDO also plans to land it like an aircraft. “We’ve a few UAV projects going where this technology is being experimented with. It can be integrated with the HSTD,” sources say.

Another frontier that scramjet research has opened up is advanced metallurgy. “We’re talking about a craft that moves at great speeds, breaks off from the atmosphere and re-enters, weathering high temperatures and atmospheric friction. There are several new alloys being developed. Apart from their use in scramjet vehicles, this research will impact the whole gamut of strategic metallurgy,” says Dr G Malakondaiah, director of the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory, Hyderabad.

India is experimenting with silica-carbon-silica and nickel-based alloys to cover the scramjet. Both alloys have high thermal resistance. A prototype using these alloys will be subjected to wind tunnel tests to gauge their strength against the vagaries of the atmosphere and beyond.

It is but natural for anyone to wonder why two Indian agencies are developing the same technology in parallel, with so much, except the sophisticated nature of the end-use, in common. ISRO insiders blame it on the absence of a pro-active culture within DRDO’s portals; the latter finds fault with ISRO’s big brother attitude.

“It’s the typical Indian defence story,” says one former top gun of ISRO. “In a way, it’s a blessing in disguise. Whoever proves it first will attract global attention. With the country inching closer to the concept of aerospace strategic forces, there will be a lot of give and take once the technology is proved indigenously,” he adds.

And the scramjet will place India in a league of nations that includes the US, Japan, China, Russia, Australia and Europe where this nascent technology is the latest scientific fad.

manoj_k_das@epmltd.com

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Neela » 01 Sep 2008 20:38

Nitesh wrote:http://timesnow.tv/NewsDtls.aspx?NewsId=14910

India set to launch a reusable spacecraft

India is surging ahead literally out of this world as Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) begins work on a wholly indigenous effort to build a space shuttle that will carry Indians into the space like US space shuttle, Columbia. India is planning to launch a reusable spacecraft for the first time in 2010 and to send a mission to Mars as early as 2012.

India has been successfully developing space program in recent years and regularly launching satellites using booster rockets. But with a little cooperation with either USA or Russia, India will be able to cut the huge costs and share technology to build its own shuttle. India has agreements with both and could get help from either or both countries.

Former ISRO Chairman, Dr K Kasturirangan, and now advisor says the first prototype is a few years away,
The instruments and the satellite are under the final tests in ISRO satellite centre. So this will take a month and a half for to go through these tests and make sure that all the systems are behaving normally under the conditions of the space. Subsequently, there will be flight readiness review and a mission readiness review. I can except anything earliest could be the next two months.”





DDM cant even do a copy paste efficiently. Looks like two different news items have been accidently stitched together.....

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 02 Sep 2008 16:24

In response to an order placed by BEL, Ghaziabad for development of 12.88m dia radomes for the 9M dia Doppler Weather Radar developed by BEL-Ghaziabad (technology transferred from ISRAD-ISRO), NAL has successfully designed and built the country’s first state-of-the-art 12.88m dia MARK-II Radome, installed around the 9m dia DW Radar at BEL-Bangalore site.

In continuation to the MARK-I Radome (146 panels) developed earlier for ISTRAC-ISRO, this MARK-II Radome was developed to get better EM performance, with increased panel size of approx 7 sq. m (against the 3sq m of MARK-I). This MARK-II radome has only 66 panels and is configured with randomized joints. Non-linear FEM analysis was carried out to establish factors of safety against buckling at wind speeds of 250 kmph (normal) and 300 kmph (gust). A totally new tooling system was exclusively developed for large panel fabrication and the panels were fabricated using the room temperature vacuum bag moulding technique (RTVBM). The Radome panels after inspection by BEL has been installed at BEL-Bangalore site, to carry out the Radar Antenna-Radome Assembly tests, as per the test procedure evolved by ISRAD (ISRO). The end users of the radome are ISRO / DRDO / IMD. Efforts are on to transfer of technology (TOT) to BEL (GAD) for productionisation of these MARK-II Radomes.

http://nal.res.in/pages/pasteboard.htm

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 03 Sep 2008 09:16

Rupesh wrote:Mars mission by 2012 :?: considering it has taken ISRO so long for a moon mission, 2012 for Mars seems doubtful.


The mars-0 mission could be possible by 2012. The mission would take time if ISRO goes in for a clean slate design. However they would prefer using existing proven designs and with valuable experience gained from moon mission they might make it by 2012. Also another factor to be considered is whether they would again go into bhaichara mode and invite international participation.

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radome

Postby rrao » 03 Sep 2008 11:53

nitesh ,this has reference to your post on radomes. Any idea who built the radomes for Jaguars. If it is NAL, why ADA has gone to ASL composites facility ?. Because ,the radomes apart from aerodynamics should exhibit predictable and consistant Electomagnetic performance with low transmission loss,no degradation in main lobe gain,no deterioration of sidelobes, no flash lobes,radome aberration, minimal pattern distortion etc.. The VTR built by ASL does have some problems.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby disha » 03 Sep 2008 18:36

Arunkumar wrote:
Rupesh wrote:Mars mission by 2012 :?: considering it has taken ISRO so long for a moon mission, 2012 for Mars seems doubtful.


The mars-0 mission could be possible by 2012. The mission would take time if ISRO goes in for a clean slate design. However they would prefer using existing proven designs and with valuable experience gained from moon mission they might make it by 2012. Also another factor to be considered is whether they would again go into bhaichara mode and invite international participation.


What is wrong with going into "bhaichara" mode? Just that we got delayed by a year at most? If you noticed, the dragon also sent a package to moon which was just that, a package to moon and no analysis forthcoming from it. ISRO could have done that to gain marquee points but that would have been *useless*.

As part of moon mission, ISRO has developed a deep space antenna network. Boring. Not glamorous. Not useless. As part of the bhaichara mode, ISRO has roped in multiple laboratories across the world with ISRO having first right of access to data. Boring. Not glamorous. Not useless. Global Bhaichara will allow ISRO to use the deep space network of other countries - including the big Kahuna - US. Useless? It will gain experience - very valuable from the bhaichara mode - on how to manage spacecraft in deep space. It is an art and that does not come in easy - particularly when your vehicle to the moon/mars takes several minutes to respond - you are basically flying in the blind.

Now coming back to leveraging laboratories across the world - ISRO has brains but it does not have *all* the technical know-how. Case in point mini-SAR. ISRO will now learn how to integrate mini-SAR, how to use it and how to discern the data obtained from it. ISRO will gain experience on integrating best of breed technologies. Remember INSAT? Now ISRO has a fleet of Remote sensing sats - better than any in the world and a communications and meteriological sat better than anyone in Asia [yes incl. Japan]. It will take Dragon atleast 2 decades [yes 20 years] to catch up to the same and also make it useful.

I digress, in bhaichara mode - the laboratories are excited to have their packages ride on to moon - for several persons working on those packages, such events come once in a decade. Sometimes once in a lifetime. They would be happy to help out build the technologies for a mission to Mars or Jupiter or Saturn.

Note that this "bhaichara" mode is slow and painful, but it is laying down the foundation. Also note that ISRO cannot be seen as an organization with multiple failures - the DDM will be out with knives without understanding the intricacies and nuances of a mission.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 03 Sep 2008 21:34

What is wrong with going into "bhaichara" mode?


Bhaichara in the first mission itself takes away the psy-ops value that we would have had , had we done it all alone. I am not against bhaicharagiri. We can have plenty of it , but that can be from mission-2 onwards, case in point being chandrayaan-2 or missions with less publicity value like INSAT or IRS.

Just that we got delayed by a year at most?


We could have beaten the panda and Japan in the race to the moon since the Indian make instrumentations I believe, were ready a year back since the original launch was planned for 2007. Had we launched earlier a newspaper headline would have screamed INDIA BEATS CHINA IN MOON RACE. Sergei koryolev was not a fool to reconfigure the R-7 to launch the sputnik in such a hurry. Just google up the US reaction when the soviets became the first to reach space. Showbaazi is an important tool in international politics only that Indian politicians and babus dont realize it.

If you noticed, the dragon also sent a package to moon which was just that, a package to moon and no analysis forthcoming from it. ISRO could have done that to gain marquee points but that would have been *useless*.


Atleast there is no DDM who says NASA helps china to reach the moon. Just check out DDM comments on chandrayaan-1. Reaching first is only about scoring points. Deep space exploration is such a risky business that achieving final orbit itself (panda has done that) is a big achievement, forget about science goals.

Global Bhaichara will allow ISRO to use the deep space network of other countries - including the big Kahuna - US. Useless?


If you care to read my previous post properly the bhaichara comment was specifically for the spacecraft payload(which is yet to be developed) and not for already EXISTING ground infrastructure like DSN and other labs/facilities.

It will take Dragon atleast 2 decades [yes 20 years] to catch up to the same and also make it useful.


hmmm... nice figures... any links?The chinese are watching television anyways.

Also note that ISRO cannot be seen as an organization with multiple failures


ISRO's success rate is fairly good and occasionally even the venerable soyuz blows up.

just chill chill............

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 05 Sep 2008 02:03

I guess if one silos the mind things like this happen.

ISOR also has a big burden. They crave international acclaim while doing national things. The important thing for them is to show that ISRO is a civilan space program. Hence inviting all sorts of baichara people who will delay them.

I too remarked that they shouldnt have invited such baichara stuff in first flight.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sanjeevjain » 05 Sep 2008 07:22

Just a cheesy thought :mrgreen:

Wouldn't it have been great if ISRO could have tried to use one of the Moon Impactor things to plant Indian Flag on the moon during this mission itself. Just imagine the psy-op value of such a news and reaction to a photo of Indian Flag flying on the moon.

I know "bleeding-heart-liberals" would have bleed little more with this "waste" of money, but it would have inspired millions in India.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sunilUpa » 05 Sep 2008 11:29

SpectraTime to Supply Atomic Clocks to IRNSS

SpectraTime has announced its receipt of a contract valued at approximately €4 million to supply rubidium space clocks for the Indian Regional Navigational Satellite System (IRNSS), a GNSS system that is under development by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO).

The IRNSS will consist of seven satellites, three in geostationary orbit and the other four in geosynchronous orbit. First launch of an IRNSS is currently expected in 2009. The system will transmit BOC(5,2) and BPSK signals at the L5 frequency (1176.45 MHz) and also in S-band.

Headquartered in Neuchatel, Switzerland, SpectraTime is part of the Orolia group of companies and has provided atomic clocks for Europe’s Galileo and China’s Compass GNSS systems.

Within 5 years, the company expects to have more spaceborne atomic clocks in orbit than any other company, according to Pascal Rochat, SpectraTime’s CEO.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 05 Sep 2008 15:00

Bangalore to host India's maiden space exposition
Friday, 05 September , 2008, 13:18


Bangalore: The Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) in association with Indian Space Research Organisation and its marketing arm Antrix is organising India's maiden space exposition from November 29 to December 1.

To be held at the Bangalore International Exhibition Centre (BIEC), the Bengaluru Space Expo (BSX) 2008 will showcase the latest in technology and products from various space agencies, entrepreneurs and industries focusing on areas such as space science, space technology, infrastructure, space application and space exploration items, according to an ISRO announcement today.

A concurrent two-day international conference "world Space-Biz" would be organised to highlight the achievements of the industry and to discuss its future requirements and deliberate on commercialisation of space.

Presentations will be made by experts from the space industry from India and overseas.

Speakers from global space agencies and industry would discuss on agendas such as access to space, space commercialisation, space adventure and exploration, space vendors and suppliers and risk management.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14752764

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Raja » 05 Sep 2008 16:47

sanjeevjain wrote:I know "bleeding-heart-liberals" would have bleed little more with this "waste" of money


Huh? Do you even know anything about liberalism?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 07 Sep 2008 01:45

sanjeevjain wrote:Just a cheesy thought :mrgreen:

Wouldn't it have been great if ISRO could have tried to use one of the Moon Impactor things to plant Indian Flag on the moon during this mission itself. Just imagine the psy-op value of such a news and reaction to a photo of Indian Flag flying on the moon.

I know "bleeding-heart-liberals" would have bleed little more with this "waste" of money, but it would have inspired millions in India.

So here is my long debrief on the subject.
As always following is onleee my personal recollection, understanding and view point. ;)

ISRO is after all a Yindian organization, that breaths and lives the Yindu ethos of recently freed slave, what mai baap says is right. So first there was this great resistance by ISRO to even think of a "Chandrayan" mission in view of imbibed dhimmihood and socialistic ethos decreed by just one statement {link here} of Prof.Vikram Sarabhai (Yinduns generally don't read much and as expected they never read about all other aspect of personality of Dr. Vikram Sarabhai) that all Injun rockets and spacecrafts onlee for social good of hungry and naked Indian poors, and not waste the enormous fortune for petty nationalistic ego or abstract scientific data collection and scientific discovery (that is the bane and sole privilege of the rich onlee).

After GoI was shamed by Chinese gung-ho space program: Chinese Takionaught and Chinese moon mission, the political tempo built up where by IMHO GoI asked ISRO to not eliminate thinking of moon mission as non-Kosher {You see for ISRO to even think that way, was a paap}. So ISRO discovered some cojon (that was missing / hiding some unknown place) and floated the idea of Chandrayan, finally making a proposal for mai baap/GoI, thinking that will be the end of the story. But then ISRO were surprised by GoI giving them the money and in fact prodding them to go ahead with Chandrayan (similar episode that come to mind when a US General Peter Pace had to come to Delhi and give press release that USA will not mind Indian testing Agni-III. But this Chandrayan was a domestic version of that episode).

The dhimmi Yindu as usual is holier than most socialist people, asked for Global participation and free ride on the Chandrayan; this even though the payload weight challenge atop PSLV was by itself quite a stretch. IMHO one factor was the dhimmi belief that inviting global participation and NASA in particular will make the heart of Amri Khan and its MTCR clowns "melt with piety" and the Unkill will not put MTCR embargo on Chandrayan, or good boy behavior will earn some brownie points with Unkill/MTCR. Of course MTCR restrictions on ISRO did not go away even today.

ISRO's Chandrayan was now afloat. But like some convent educated, ISRO will not think outside "dhimmi-tude" boundary, and they stuck to classical moon orbiting spacecraft. President APJ Kalam had to push and tell them to think freely and out of the box. It was President Kalam who said if Chandrayan is going that far and orbiting just 100km from moon surface, why stop there and not touch the moon? He proposed and inquired why Chandryan mission should not be innovative and partitioned in a way that some sensor payload after doing its job can be detached and de-spun from orbit, with only a overhead only a very small motor, and let it impact and crash on moon surface.

Viola with that:
    1. India/ISRO earns the taking rights of also delivering some payload on moon surface.
    2. The sensors get to prove additional data from much closer distance as it approach the impact point.
    3. The dust cloud that gets kicked up by the impact in turn will unravel additional surface material whose properties can be measured by sensors on the mother ship Chandrayan.

Everyone said: "Yes !!! But why did I not think of it before?"
I am sure no one even paid attention to the their own thinking process and the little beast living there called "slavish freedom" aka "dhimmi attitude".

Now to make that "impactor" instead do a soft landing and implant a Indian flag, that is much more than what can be accomplished by the 550Kg limit of the spacecraft even if that was the sole mission of the craft (I.e. no other payload).

JMT.

And pls forgive my satirical narrative. I wanted to put the answer in a perspective that may awaken the deeper thought process of some of the readers; hopefully.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 07 Sep 2008 18:46

http://news.webindia123.com/news/articl ... 47129.html

NSG waiver will give access to latest technology: ISRO chief

September 7th, 2008 - 6:33 pm ICT by IANS -

Chennai, Sep 7 (IANS) The lifting of the 34-year embargo against nuclear supplies to India would help the nation access latest global technological advancements, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman G. Madhavan Nair said Sunday.”Though we are fairly advanced in this field, thanks to the NSG nod we will have access to uninterrupted supply of global inputs and technological advancements as the development is a clear recognition of our nuclear capability,” Nair told reporters.

The preparations for the unmanned space mission Chandraayan was proceeding as planned and some of its vital parametrical needs would be completed by October, Nair added.

Nair was en route to a nearby university to accept a honorary doctorate.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 07 Sep 2008 22:44

President APJ Kalam had to push and tell them to think freely and out of the box.


Think freely......very true. The soviets never lacked 'out of the box' ideas, sometimes taking it to extremes. Consider this......

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/histind/E3/E3orig.htm

From the above link

But, if a nuclear device was exploded on the Moon's surface, the whole world would be able to observe the event and nobody would be able to pose the question: has a Soviet spacecraft really reached the Moon? It was assumed that a nuclear explosion on the Moon would be accompanied by such a light flash that it would easily be observable by all observatories on Earth.

Thankfully it was shelved.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby rsingh » 08 Sep 2008 01:07

Nuclear explosion on moon would have been just a little patakha because of lack of O2.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby kit » 08 Sep 2008 03:39

Hi Arun_S , can you tell us exactly (educate) us rather , about the implication/benefit of the Nuclear accord with US.Understandably India n hands will be tied up in its foreign policy options, but other that .. the percieved benefits ? Would really appreciate it :) I know this stuff is a dynamic but lets look at it. And no ,I am not buying the nuclear power panacea as the solution for all evil in India !

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 08 Sep 2008 05:38

kit wrote:Hi Arun_S , can you tell us exactly (educate) us rather , about the implication/benefit of the Nuclear accord with US.Understandably India n hands will be tied up in its foreign policy options, but other that .. the percieved benefits ? Would really appreciate it :) I know this stuff is a dynamic but lets look at it. And no ,I am not buying the nuclear power panacea as the solution for all evil in India !

Kit,
Why ask this question on Space Program discussion thread?
There is a separate thread with high quality discussion on Strategic Forum. Pls participate there. And I claim no authority any less or more to the ladies and gentlemen posting there, much less if am worthy to educate anyone, each man for himself to read analyze and based on that be informed on the subject matter. Dont want to be a "sacrificial bakra" :wink: .

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby rachel » 08 Sep 2008 07:07

Arun S, I too had reservations about a moon mission, and it had nothing to do with self-confidence or dhimmitude. I simply believed (and still do) that from a practical point of view, other space priorities are more important...namely:

1. our INSATs have a maximum of about 24 Ku transponders (or less), whereas the leading comm-sats (EADS, L-M,etc) have about 50 transponders (mix of Ku and Ka) .. bigger and more powerful

2. our GSLV launchers can loft 2 tonnes, and that too with Russian cryogenic stage. China and Japan can both loft 4.4 tonnes, EADS/US/Russians even more so.

I do think it is more practical to catch up with the big boys in launchers and comm-sats (bigger ones than we currently have) rather than moon launches etc.

Moon launches make the front pages of TIME magazine and appeal to people's sense of grandeur, but from the POV of actual usefulness to the nation? I dare say catching upto Lockheed-Martin and building a 5 tonne ultra-sophisticated 50 xponder Ka band comsat is more constructive. Or having a GSLV (totally indigeneous) with 4 tonne capacity, and being able to do 3-4 GSLV launches per year (plus maybe 5-6 PSLV) is more important.

Can we do both? Moon launches plus catch-up to Chinese in launchers?? A bit hard with a budget 1/50th of NASA's, I think.

But OTOH, I understand that a moon launch or manned orbit is more 'glamorous' than just building a bigger or more powerful comm-sat, and the Chinese will give the 'impression' of being far ahead of us if we let them do this glitzy stuff while we concentrate on practical things only.. so in a way the Chinees have hustled us into following them.

Not being critical in any way .. our accomplishments in space are great. Just weighing alternatives.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby karan_mc » 08 Sep 2008 07:25

i think you are not aware that we are building GSLV MKIII which will be able to launch 4 tonnes sats in future and may have its first planned launch in 2011-12 frame period if i am not wrong

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ranganathan » 08 Sep 2008 07:54

GSLV-MK3 can lug 4.4 tonne, INSATs are 2-3.6 tonne but bigger sats are on their way and more importantly the budget of ISRO has been increased to 1/10th of NASA (2 bil).

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby rachel » 09 Sep 2008 03:25

Karan_mc, I'm quite aware of Mk3 with 4 tonnes capacity. China and Japan may be up to 6-8 tonnes capacity by the time we get Mk3 up. China and Japan are today at 4.4 tonnes, doesnt mean they will conveniently stay at 4.4 and wait for us to catch up.

I think it's important that we should catch up if not overtake China in launchers.

As for INSATs, I've been watching successive generations of these birds and for a long time now, the capacity and size has stayed somewhat stagnant. We are on INSAT 4- series now, and have a look at the size and capacities for 4A all the way to 4H. Very similar, seems there wont be any boost til 5-series.

And there is no credible link that tells us exactly the specs of INSAT 5-series, or even a reliable estimate of when they'll be built.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 09 Sep 2008 21:14

OT

rsingh wrote:Nuclear explosion on moon would have been just a little patakha because of lack of O2.


A little info on the person who gave the proposal for the nuclear explosion on moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Zel%27dovich

How a nuclear bomb works.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-11-2004-51554.asp

summary : fission process doesnt require O2.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sum » 09 Sep 2008 21:20

Link
Small tit-bit of this day 25 years ago:
Fate Of Satellite Hangs In Balance
Bangalore, September 8.
The fate of INSAT 1-B hung in balance tonight as the satellite defied all attempts of Indian and American scientists at Hassan to get on orbit solar array to its full configuration.
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) announced that furher manoeuvres would be tried on Saturday or Sunday and that the fault appeared to be mechanical.


Those were the days!!!!!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Rupesh » 11 Sep 2008 16:54

Chandrayaan-I passes thermal vacuum test

BANGALORE: The Chandrayaan-I satellite has successfully undergone the thermal vacuum test even as Indian space scientists achieved a major milestone inching closer to the country's first mission to the moon.

A formal announcement on the date of the eagerly awaited launch is expected to be made by Chairman of the Bangalore-headquartered Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) G Madhavan Nair next week.

The two-week vacuum test to evaluate the thermal design of the spacecraft and to verify its endurance in the harsh environment of space, has just been completed at ISRO Satellite Centre here, sources in the space agency said.

"The test was satisfactory," an ISRO official said. "Environment and acoustics tests will follow, and the pre-shipment review is expected by this month-end".

The ambitious moon mission is slated for second half of October. An ISRO official said on condition of anonymity that the first available date is October 22, and the launch window has been fixed between October 22 and 26.

ISRO officials said it's an "exceptional example" of international collaboration towards exploring the moon.

The nearly 1,400 kg Chandrayaan-I satellite would be launched by the 316-tonne Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV-XL) from Satish Dhawan Space Centre at the spaceport of Sriharikota.

There are six scientific payloads from NASA, ESA and Bulgaria in addition to the five Indian instruments onboard Chandrayaan-I.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Chandrayaan-I_passes_thermal_vacuum_test/articleshow/3472218.cms

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ramana » 11 Sep 2008 22:09

rsingh wrote:Nuclear explosion on moon would have been just a little patakha because of lack of O2.


You mean lack of atmoshpere as the blast wave will attenuate or more likely not happen at all. You will have thermal and radiation effects only.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby ranganathan » 11 Sep 2008 23:54

When did chandrayan become 1400 kg? IIRC it was 500 odd kg.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Anujan » 12 Sep 2008 00:48

ranganathan wrote:When did chandrayan become 1400 kg? IIRC it was 500 odd kg.


The craft that will be inserted in GTO is around 1050 Kg. That craft will orbit the earth at 240 x 36000Km, and then fly to the moon. The lunar orbital mass is ~500Kg. So presumably 500Kg of fuel to fly to the moon.

ISRO has a sexy website BTW http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan-1/

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 12 Sep 2008 06:16

India approves satellite navigation project

Statesman News Service
NEW DELHI, Sept. 11: For providing seamless navigation over Indian airspace and waters, the government today approved implementation of Rs 774-crore Global Positioning System (GPS) aided Geo Augmented Navigation (Gagan) project.

This project involves development of indigenous technology in frontier areas and is expected to yield a number of benefits to the aviation sector.

Apart from enabling aircraft to navigate on a straight path instead of navigating in a zig-zag path over land based stations, it will provide coverage of oceanic areas which is not possible by terrestrial systems. It will increase safety by using three dimensional (3D) approach operations-enabling multiple approach capability, improve airport and airspace access in all weather conditions, enhance reliability and reduce delays.

It will also help airlines’ cause by providing fuel-efficient air corridors and providing CAT-I approaches without ground element support. The Indian Space Research Organisation and the Airports Authority of India (AAI) are developing this system jointly. “With implementation of Gagan, India will become
the fourth country in the world to have a satellite based navigation system
,” a spokesperson said.

The civil aviation minister, Mr Praful Patel, said the GAGAN system will be in place by 2011 and it will make flying much safer than at present. He said of the Rs 774 crore estimated expenditure on the project, AAI would spend Rs 580 crore.

The implementation of the Gagan programme is being realised in two phases. The first, Gagan TDS phase (Technology Demonstration System), was completed in August, 2007.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 12 Sep 2008 06:19

lakshmic wrote:
ranganathan wrote:When did chandrayan become 1400 kg? IIRC it was 500 odd kg.


The craft that will be inserted in GTO is around 1050 Kg. That craft will orbit the earth at 240 x 36000Km, and then fly to the moon. The lunar orbital mass is ~500Kg. So presumably 500Kg of fuel to fly to the moon.

ISRO has a sexy website BTW http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan-1/


That is correct, the dry weight will be ~550Kg. Rest is fuel for going from where PSLV-XT will drop it to 100Km from Moon surface and station keeping there for 2 years.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SSridhar » 12 Sep 2008 06:45

Some more info on the GAGAN project

The operationalisation of the system will allow seamless navigation over Indian air space apart from a enabling aircraft to navigate a straight route instead of navigating a zig-zag path over land based stations at present. Besides, the system will provide coverage of oceanic areas which is not possible with a terrestrial system

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 12 Sep 2008 14:49

Salem College students develop motors and components for ISRO rockets and satellites
12 September 2008

Salem: For the first time in the country, two special brushless motors, which form an important part of the Geo-stationary Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV), India's largest space launch vehicle and in controlling satellite panels, have been developed by students of a local engineering college here.

These motors were earlier imported by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

A prototype of this motor was displayed by students of Sona College of Technology to ISRO scientists at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VVSC) and ISRO's inertial systems unit (IISU) at Thiruvanthapuram.

The first motor, which will be placed in the rocket nozzle of the GSLV to control its direction, is a 32 newton metre, 1000 rotations per minute quadruplex brushless DC torque motor, according to Prof Kannan, director of Sona Special Power Electronics and Electric Drives (SSPEED).

The second motor, which controls the rotation of the panels in a satellite, is a 2 newton metre, 50 rotations per minute slotless brushless DC motor. It will be used in the scan mechanism of microwave analysis detection of rain and atmospheric structures for the Megha Tropiques Spacecraft.

ISRO's inertial systems unit needed 'cog free' motors to enhance the performance of precision scanning mechanisms in spacecraft and SSPEED had met all the required parameters, Prof Kannan said.

Prof Kannan said this was a "unique" achievement by an institution, which designed and developed an aerospace quality component for actual use in ISRO's satellites and rockets. "This would save precious foreign exchange and provide valuable technical know how," he said.

http://www.domainb.com/aero/aero_mfg/20 ... llege.html

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby rrao » 12 Sep 2008 18:40

Salem College students develop motors and components for ISRO rockets and satellites
12 September 2008



Its great to note that college students have developed BLDC. Nitesh, can you give the address of prof kannan,SSPEED. For one specific system of LCA, BLDC motors are being imported. The motor no load speed is 25,000rpm with built in resolver for rotor postion sensor. should operate on 270V dc. 350 watts ,its basically a BLDC motor with built in gear head. size 1.5" dia and 3" long.


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