Indian Military Aviation

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 14 Jul 2008 22:20

Pardon me ..but can somebody enlighten me about the increased drag that this refueling probe causes. Also closer looks reveals many exposed rivets. Any effect on plane's performance due to this??

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 15 Jul 2008 01:07

HAL on a Dhruv ride in LatAm

The country’s light helicopter maker, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), may have hit a jackpot in Latin America. After having sold its advanced light helicopter (ALH) Dhruv to Peru and Ecuador, HAL is looking to secure orders from more countries in that region, including Bolivia.

According to highly placed sources in the ministry of defence (MoD), Bolivia will soon confirm its order to buy five ALH Dhruv shortly. “Latin America could be a good hub for the sale of the ALH.”

So far, countries like Ecuador (seven for $ 51 million) and Peru (ambulance version) have already procured the machine. The aircraft has been priced around Rs 40 crore apiece, 10-15 per cent lower than similar machines in its class. After these two international orders, India is now part of the elite group of countries with a capability to bid for international contracts for helicopters. Till now, the international market was dominated by the US, the European companies and Russia.

Many of the prospective buyers who have expressed interest in the indigenously developed machine are air forces from Latin America, Africa, West Asia, South East Asia and a few Pacific Rim nations. Air forces from around 35 countries have sent in their inquiries, along with requests for demonstrations.

It maybe recalled that HAL’s previous attempts sell the light helicopter to countries like Myanmar and Chile failed to come through on account of political pressure or competitor lobbying. Last year, in what was expected to be a big deal in the international market, the ALH which was shortlisted by the Chilean army for 8-10 machines, lost the deal to the American company Bell Helicopters.

According to sources, though the price offered was competitive, the bid was lost to US-based Bell Helicopters

The contract with the Nepal Air Force is said to have run into rough weather when “technical problems” were detected in one of the two ALHs sold to the country in 2004.

The Dhruv is available in different configurations and is easily adaptable for any role. By the end of the year, the Indian Army is set to take delivery of an armed version of the the ALH.

Recently, the MoD silently endorsed the ALH Dhruv at a two visit of the defence minister AK Antony to the Line of Control (LoC). “We are committed to encourage our defence establishments in the indigenous production of aircraft, helicopters, and other equipment...

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/HA ... Am/335468/

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jul 2008 05:48

Jagan wrote:
shiv wrote:
Heck - I actually saw one of these ac taking off from HAL last week

I was left wondering what the big deal was about this. Fuel probes on Jaguars are not a new thing - and we have seen much classy retractable ones on the Jags

But finally the tube lit up in my head . . This post is making news because the probe was fitted to a two seater which is a first.

Jagan IIRC the IAF asked for them to be removed (as unnecessary)

when we first got Jags. Now we are putting them on ourselves.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 15 Jul 2008 15:19

Is it possible that this fuel probe integration exercise is for the LCA, with Jaguar as the testbed? I feel it is a bit too late for reintegration into Jaguar, esp since darin upgrades have been initiated long back. I wonder what the bump on the lower left side can be.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 15 Jul 2008 22:49

Massive military exercises on Western Coast in January
G. Anand

Thiruvananthapuram: The Indian Air Force (IAF) will hold joint military exercises with the Armyand Navy on the Western coast in January next year. Speaking to newspersons here, Air Marshal S. C. Mukul, Air Officer Commanding in Chief, Southern Air Command (SAC), said the exercise code named “Triveni” involves air-power backed amphibious assaults by SpecialForces. It is a follow up on “Tropex”, codename for a comparable military exercise held in early 2007.

He said the IAF is seeking “special enclaves” for itself in civilianairports in Kerala, including the one proposed in Kannur district (chieflybecause of the region’s proximity to Lakshwadweep and Minicoy Islands on theArabian seaboard). Such “enclaves” will help the IAF extend its reach atminimum cost to itself.

The IAF is seeking space at Kochi and Karipur airports, including exclusivetarmac area and buildings for housing basic operational infrastructure.

It has expanded and strengthened its tarmac area in Thiruvananthapuramairport for hosting fighter planes. The SAC does not have an active airdefence position. It can activate its air assets at short notice, he said.

The SAC has been on an air defence alert ever since the Liberation Tigers ofthe Tamil Elam (an armed separatist outfit in the neighbouring island nationof Sri Lanka) acquired minimal air power in 2006.

The Air Marshal said the SAC has beefed up its point defences (mostly radarlinked anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missile silos) in thepeninsula.

The Command is seeking more and better radars for high, medium and low levelair surveillance. Its surveillance network is already integrated with Navyand civilian radars.

The SAC operates a network of lookout personnel who visually scan the skiesfor small and low flying aircraft, such as microlites and flying models,which are normally not picked up by radars.

The IAF is setting up a modern and secure optical fibre communicationnetwork, IAF net, which will enable fast data sharing between its variouscommands. The air bases in Sulur and Thanjavur in Tamil Nadu are beingupgraded to host fighter and transport aircraft respectively.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 16 Jul 2008 15:16

PRESS INFORMATION BUREAU (DEFENCE WING)

GOVERNMENT OF INDIA

PARTICIPATION OF SARANG HELICOPTER TEAM

FARNBOROUGH AIR SHOW IN UK FROM 16 TO 20 JUL 08

New Delhi : 14 Jul 2008

Sarang Helicopter display team flying the HAL build Dhruv helicopters would be participating in the Farnborough Air Show in UK from 16 to 30 Jul 08. Farnborough Air Show in Britain is considered to be the one of the biggest Air Show in the world. It would be the first time that an IAF team is participating in the Air Show. The team had participated earlier this month in Weddington International Air Show and Royal International Air Tattoo to commemorate 90th Anniversary of Royal Air Force.

Sarang team is one amongst two such helicopter display teams in the world the other being the Blue Eagle team of UK. Sarang as said earlier is displaying thrilling formation display maneoeuvres utilizing the indigenously built Dhruv Helicopter with an aim of showcasing the Technological and aeronautical powers of our country. The Sarang’s Dhruv is uniquely painted with Indian National bird Peacock embossed on them.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 16 Jul 2008 17:29

if LCH protoype flies this october as scheduled,when can we expect IOC for the same?

Thanks

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 16 Jul 2008 17:46

IIRC the LCH proto is supposed to "Roll out" in october. That is quite different than first flight.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 16 Jul 2008 20:28

http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/16/stories ... 120400.htm

Thiruvananthapuram: The Indian Air Force (IAF) will hold joint military exercises with the Army and the Navy on the western coast in January.

Air Marshal S.C. Mukul, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Southern Air Command (SAC), said the exercise, codenamed “Triveni,” involved air-power-backed amphibious assaults by Special Forces.

It was a follow up on “Tropex,” codename for a comparable military exercise held in early 2007.

To extend reach

He said the IAF was seeking special enclaves for itself in civilian airports in Kerala, including the one proposed in Kannur district (chiefly because of the region’s proximity to Lakshwadweep and Minicoy Islands on the Arabian seaboard). Such enclaves would help the IAF extend its reach at minimum cost to itself.

The IAF was seeking space in the Kochi and Karipur airports, including exclusive tarmac area and buildings for housing basic operational infrastructure.

It had expanded and strengthened its tarmac area in the Thiruvananthapuram airport for hosting fighter planes.

The SAC did not have an active air defence position. It could activate its air assets at short notice, he said.

On alert

The SAC has been on an air defence alert ever since the Liberation Tigers of the Tamil Eelam of Sri Lanka acquired minimal air power in 2006.

The Air Marshal said the SAC had beefed up its point defences (mostly radar linked anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missile silos) in the peninsula.

Better radars

The Command was seeking more and better radars for high-, medium- and low-level air surveillance. Its surveillance network was already integrated with Navy and civilian radars.

Lookout personnel

The SAC operated a network of lookout personnel who visually scanned the skies for small and low-flying aircraft, such as microlites and flying models, which were normally not picked up by radars.

The IAF was setting up a modern and secure optical fibre communication network, IAF net, which would enable fast data sharing between its various commands. The air bases in Suloor and Tanjore in Tamil Nadu were being upgraded to host fighter and transport aircraft, respectively

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Jul 2008 20:52

The Indian AEW&C project detailed

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 17 Jul 2008 00:10

HAL in talks with S American countries to export Dhruv

Riding high on the success of bagging a contract for seven 'Dhruv' helicopters from Ecuador late last month, India's bluechip aviation major Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is now in talks with other South American countries for further export orders.

"We are in negotiations with a couple of South American nations for supplying Dhruv choppers. We hope to finalise the deals with these countries in a month. Two or three countries will be part of our export orders soon," Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Chairman Ashok K Baweja said here today.

HAL is negotiating with Bolivia for delivery of five Dhruvs and with Venezuela for seven of the choppers in transport roles, and in Europe, it was discussing a deal with Turkey for supply of 17 of the Advanced Light Helicopters (ALHs) in medical assistance roles, PTI has learnt.

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=455766&sid=NAT

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 17 Jul 2008 03:25

Noted recently at Farnborough.

Credits go out to Steve Mitchell stevemitchell-at-waitrose-dot-com

Jul 14, 2008

VT-HAM HAL Dhruv
IA-1136 HAL Dhruv Indian Army
J4042 HAL Dhruv Indian AF – Sarang team
J4043 HAL Dhruv Indian AF – Sarang team
J4049 HAL Dhruv Indian AF – Sarang team
J4050 HAL Dhruv Indian AF – Sarang team
J4063 HAL Dhruv Indian AF – Sarang team

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 18 Jul 2008 11:57

Some Good Pics of sarang team in farnborough

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/07/ph ... atics.html

Dhanush · Post by **Dhanush** » 18 Jul 2008 14:18

narayana wrote:if LCH protoype flies this october as scheduled,when can we expect IOC for the same?

Thanks

According to the FORCE article, the IOC is expected by 2010. But, I don't expect it to happen so soon (maybe by 2012).

I expect PV-1 to fly this year. I don't understand what Mehta means by 'roll-out'.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 18 Jul 2008 15:06

Roll out means roll-out display. The prototype is displayed before the press with the managers sitting on a dais in front of the proto.
Something like this.
F-35B roll out
F-35B roll out
It means that the proto construction is complete. But needs more tests before actual flying can be done.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 18 Jul 2008 15:46

Indian Air Force to Launch Independent Website
Year 2007 was declared as the ‘Year of Placement for Ex-servicemen’, by the Hon’ble Raksha Mantri. In order to create maximum placements for the Ex-Air Warriors, IAF has established IAF Placement Cell at Delhi and Regional Placement cells and various Command HQ IAF Placement Fairs have been conducted at Delhi and Kolkata to expand its reach to regional companies. An overwhelming response was experienced both from corporate world and the retired Air Warriors. Large number of personnel were employed by the participating companies. Next two placement Fairs for the year are scheduled to be held at Bangalore and Pune in September and December respectively.

While most of the job of the IAF Placement Cell is through the internet, need was always felt for an independent website. IAF Placement Cell would be launching its website www.iafpe.co.in on 22 Jul 08 at 1100 hrs, at the Air Force Auditorium. The Chief of the Air Staff would inaugurate the same.

The website which is made by ICICI Group would be dedicated to the Ex-Air Warriours by ICICI Bank’s JMD, MS Kochhar. The website will have separate log-ins for the employers and the job seekers. It will have a knowledge zone with tips on attending interviews / resume writing and a host of e-learning courses offered by ICICI Bank.

In all, it will add up to efforts of IAF in providing good second career opportunities to its Ex-Air Warriors.

*********

shetty · Post by **shetty** » 18 Jul 2008 19:24

Air Chief's interview to be posted soon on Shiv's blog.

In the meantime, "Air Chief: BAE Systems has admitted to its mistakes".

Dhanush · Post by **Dhanush** » 18 Jul 2008 19:32

K Mehta wrote:IIRC the LCH proto is supposed to "Roll out" in october. That is quite different than first flight.

Quoting Ashok Baweja talking of 'maiden flight' of LCH planned for end of 2008
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/June/2007/20070620_hal.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories ... 031000.htm

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 18 Jul 2008 19:55

Dhanush wrote:
K Mehta wrote:IIRC the LCH proto is supposed to "Roll out" in october. That is quite different than first flight.
Quoting Ashok Baweja talking of 'maiden flight' of LCH planned for end of 2008
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/June/2007/20070620_hal.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories ... 031000.htm

Either DDM or delay pick your favourite.

This is from the horse's mouth. No reporter reinterpretation and the latest info on the project.

There are reports that HAL would field its Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) for the recently released IAF’s RFP for 22 attack helicopters. Are these reports correct?

HAL has no information regarding the RFP for attack helicopter. However, LCH will be ready by the end of this year and its maiden flight is expected in the beginning next year. After that we will take a year and a half for certification. Roughly speaking, the LCH will be ready for induction in the IAF by 2010-2011.

Vick · Post by **Vick** » 19 Jul 2008 06:20

From DN

India Battles Slip In Fleet Availability

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI

NEW DELHI — The Indian Air Force (IAF) is trying to stem the declining combat readiness of its aircraft with a 10-year, $50 billion buy-andupgrade plan, a senior Indian Defense Ministry official said.

IAF officials are also accelerating the creation of Aerospace Command, which will integrate satellites into the Air Force.

The IAF has 37 squadrons of about 20 aircraft apiece, which is already below the authorized level of 39.5 and far below the ideal of 44, the official said. Yet as aircraft age and are grounded over the next 10 years — especially older Russian planes — the number of squadrons could fall to 26 by 2018, the official said.

The centerpiece of the IAF’s purchase effort is the $9 billion global hunt for 126 Medium Range Multirole Combat Aircraft. A winner is expected to be picked by 2010.

Other contracts are already in place. Last year, the IAF ordered 40 Su-30MKI aircraft from Russia for more than $2 billion, which will arrive in 2009. Delivery of three Phalcon-based Airborne Warning and Control Systems is to start in August; the Defence Research and Development Organisation is to build three more homegrown AWACS in the next five to seven years.

The IAF is speeding up the $7 billion licensed production of 140 Su-30MKIs by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), anticipating final delivery four years ahead of time in 2014.

Now the IAF plans to add four tanker aircraft to its six Il-78s; a request for proposals (RfP) will be issued by year end, and a request for information was sent in January to Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Ilyushin Design Bureau of Russia and Antonov of Ukraine.

The IAF plans to stand up one squadron of homegrown Light Combat Aircraft beginning in 2010.

Fifth-Generation Development

India also wants to develop a fifth-generation multirole aircraft with Russia, thanks to a 2007 agreement that partners HAL and Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau.

Sources in the Defense Ministry say Russia will be able to fly the fifth-generation aircraft in the next two years, as they have begun work on the prototype, and service entry will be sometime between 2012 and 2015.

They said the ministry is already looking to pick the arms and electronic-warfare system for the aircraft, which is to serve for 30 years, a senior IAF official said.

Meanwhile, India’s Aeronautical Development Agency in Bangalore is working to finalize the design for the Air Force’s planned Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA), expected to replace the service’s British-built Jaguars and French Mirage 2000s by 2015.

In April, the ministry ordered the purchase of 384 helicopters from overseas companies; they will be partly built at HAL while 197 helicopters will be purchased from overseas. Last year, the Indian government cleared the purchase of eight U.S. C-130J airlifters.

Upgrades

Upgrades are planned for the IAF’s MiG-21s, MiG-27s, MiG-29s and Mirage- 2000-H aircraft, the official said. An effort to upgrade 125 of more than 200 MiG-21s is almost complete.

The upgrade of another 100 of more than 200 MiG-27s will be completed in two years. Upgrades of about 65 MiG-29 and 50 Mirage 2000-H aircraft have been ordered. The IAF, which has 100 Russian airlifters, is also undertaking upgrades of all of the Il-76 and An-32 transport aircraft.

Integrated Space Cell

In June, the Indian government decided to set up an Integrated Space Cell to help the military, Department of Space and Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) join to protect Indian satellites, the ministry official said.

The cell will also help with the $3 billion-plus setup of the Aerospace Command and its dedicated satellites, the IAF official said.

The idea of the Aerospace Command was floated after the 1999 Pakistan intrusion in the Kargil area but put on hold by the ministry for financial reasons and lack of agreement on whether to have a separate command for the Indian Air Force and other forces, the ministry official said.

Aerospace Command is envisioned as the headquarters of space technologies that will link radar and communications networks and be used for ballistic missile defense and intelligencegathering.

If the IAF can carry out its planned acquisitions and upgrades on time, the combat worthiness of the force will not be hurt as aircraft are retired, said Bhim Singh, a retired Indian Air Force wing commander.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 19 Jul 2008 06:44

Vick wrote:
India Battles Slip In Fleet Availability
Meanwhile, India’s Aeronautical Development Agency in Bangalore is working to finalize the design for the Air Force’s planned Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA), expected to replace the service’s British-built Jaguars and French Mirage 2000s by 2015.
I hope this is true..if so, its great news !

Upgrades are planned for the IAF’s MiG-21s, MiG-27s, MiG-29s and Mirage-2000-H aircraft, the official said. An effort to upgrade 125 of more than 200 MiG-21s is almost complete. The upgrade of another 100 of more than 200 MiG-27s will be completed in two years.

more upgrades for MiG-21s ? thats hardly likely for airframes that have not got much life left in them..and if he's to be believed, the number of upgraded MiG-27s are going up as well.

srai · Post by **srai** » 19 Jul 2008 13:33

Vick wrote:From DN
India Battles Slip In Fleet Availability

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI

...

Meanwhile, India’s Aeronautical Development Agency in Bangalore is working to finalize the design for the Air Force’s planned Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA), expected to replace the service’s British-built Jaguars and French Mirage 2000s by 2015.

...

Sorry to say but this is not true based on what we know today. Yeah that was the loose plan envisioned back in the day but it's no longer valid. With the much delayed upgrades of the Jaguars, MiG-29s, and the Mirage 2000s just under way, they will be with the IAF at least till 2025 because even if a MCA were to get the green light it would take that long to R&D and even longer to build in numbers thereafter.

MiG-21 Bison and MiG-27UPGs will be phased out by 2020.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Jul 2008 15:25

K Mehta wrote:
Dhanush wrote: Quoting Ashok Baweja talking of 'maiden flight' of LCH planned for end of 2008
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/June/2007/20070620_hal.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories ... 031000.htm
Either DDM or delay pick your favourite.

This is from the horse's mouth. No reporter reinterpretation and the latest info on the project.

There are reports that HAL would field its Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) for the recently released IAF’s RFP for 22 attack helicopters. Are these reports correct?

HAL has no information regarding the RFP for attack helicopter. However, LCH will be ready by the end of this year and its maiden flight is expected in the beginning next year. After that we will take a year and a half for certification. Roughly speaking, the LCH will be ready for induction in the IAF by 2010-2011.

what is surprising is that there have been no updates on the WSI dhruv since the first flight !
wonder if I missed any snippets ?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Jul 2008 11:53

Lots of flying nowadays from the old airport. For sometime you can see 4-5 Jaguars taking off with EFTs (saw them couple of minutes ago-they fly right over my office). All of them have the IAF camo and unlike the production/test Jags, the take off is very shallow and in quick succession (practically tree hugging, barely over the office bldgs in Embassy golf Link). Spider brains says the Jags are on some excercise thing. Lots of +ve things happening to make a jingo happy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2008 12:26

hopefully its new ew/datalink/buddy targeting hwsw being tried out.
the mass takeoffs are really scary for the layman...tree top level and
engines screaming. mother was really worried on sunday morn though
my nine month old niece loved it.

Anantz · Post by **Anantz** » 21 Jul 2008 13:29

Yup it was awesome yesterday to hear the birds zoom pass at such low levels... Kinda reminded me of the days in Sikkim. There in winter we used to have these Mig 21s from Bagdogra and Mig 27s from Hasimara.. zoom pass at low levels. These birds used to fly around in winter as the weather cleared up during that time... I remember they used to cross Rangpo thats the Sikkim- WB border at around 8- 9 in the morning and then after around 20 mins they used to return back from North Sikkim... This was ofcourse 7 - 8 years back.. donno if they still do that kinda flying there now!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2008 13:40

has to be a really good reason for 8 fighters to sortie together. flying costs
are not cheap by any means. what can 8 do that 1 cannot? something
collaborative I expect.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 23 Jul 2008 01:58

HAL gets Rs2,400 cr IAF deal to upgrade Jaguar fighter jets
A new version of avionics will be added to the planes for the long-range ground attack fighter

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), the state-owned military plane maker, will upgrade 68 so-called “deep penetration” Jaguar fighters of the Indian Air Force (IAF) with modern avionics in a contract valued more Rs2,400 crore that will increase the life and efficacy of the fighter planes.

HAL will upgrade these British-designed planes with a new version of the avionics, called display attack ranging inertial navigation (Darin-3), replacing the initial version of the system, Darin-1, for the lo-ng range ground attack fighter.

http://www.livemint.com/2008/07/2223334 ... eal-t.html

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 23 Jul 2008 02:03

Engine's Delayed Delivery Clouds Indian Trainer

Even as the first Russian engine arrived in India the first week of June to power the homegrown Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), the delivery schedule of the trainers to the Indian Air Force is still unclear, as the AL-551 engine has to be flight-tested further in Russia. The delivery of the engines is already behind schedule by more than two years.

A senior official of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), which is developing the homegrown IJT, admitted that the trainer program is behind schedule mainly because of the delay in the supply of the AL-551 engine.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =AIR&s=TOP

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 23 Jul 2008 02:13

Ecuador minister meets Raju

July 18: Ecuador’s vice-minister for foreign affairs Jose Valencia called on minister of state for defence M.M. Pallam Raju on Friday to discuss ways of carrying forward exchange in areas of mutual interest between the two nations.

The visit of Ecuador’s deputy foreign minister gains significance with India signing a $51 million deal to sell its HAL-manufactured Dhruv helicopters to Ecuador republic just about three weeks ago.

The two ministers, during their meeting, decided to identify areas of mutual interest and explore the possibilities of technology transfer and cooperation, especially in defence sector.

http://howrah.org/india_news/19160.html

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 23 Jul 2008 03:13

HAL gets Rs2,400 cr IAF deal to upgrade Jaguar fighter jets

HAL will upgrade these British-designed planes with a new version of the avionics, called display attack ranging inertial navigation (Darin-3), replacing the initial version of the system, Darin-1, for the lo-ng range ground attack fighter.
“These (68) planes were built in late 1980s to early 1990s, (and since then) aircraft avionics have improved phenomenally,” said a person familiar with the development, who did not wish to be named.

Engine's Delayed Delivery Clouds Indian Trainer

NEW DELHI - Even as the first Russian engine arrived in India the first week of June to power the homegrown Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), the delivery schedule of the trainers to the Indian Air Force is still unclear, as the AL-551 engine has to be flight-tested further in Russia. The delivery of the engines is already behind schedule by more than two years.

A senior official of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), which is developing the homegrown IJT, admitted that the trainer program is behind schedule mainly because of the delay in the supply of the AL-551 engine.

Related TopicsAsia & Pacific Rim
Air Warfare
The engine developed by Russia's NPO Saturn is still in the certification stage and has to undergo testing on a Russian aircraft, said the HAL official, adding that HAL will receive three AL-551 engines by August, after which IJT's flight trials will begin using the Russian engine. So far, the two prototypes of the IJT are being powered by French-made Snecma Larzac 04H20 engines.

In 2002, India contracted to acquire the AL-551 engine from Russia's NPO Saturn to replace the Larzac, and the first batch of IJTs was to have been delivered by early 2006. However, due to delays in producing the Russian engine, the schedule for 12Limited Series Production IJTs is now revised to 2010.

However, a senior Indian Air Force official said, the Russian engine has yet to be certified by the Russians themselves, and it is not certain if the Indian Air Force (IAF) will get the 12 IJTs by 2010. In addition, the Indian Air Force has ordered another 60 IJTs.

HAL sees its IJT as a cost-effective solution in the $10 million price range. It expects to sell 145 IJTs to the IAF and a further unspecified number to the Indian Navy. The homegrown IJT program was sanctioned by the government in 1999 with an initial budget of $45 million. The plane is meant to replace the Air Force's workhorse HJT-16 Kiran jet trainer.

The Russian engine is a scaled-down version of the AL-31FP that powers the Su-30 MKI combat aircraft. More than 200 engines are to be eventually produced by HAL at the Koraput facility in the eastern Indian state of Orissa.

The HAL official said, "The IJT program, which began in 1999, has had one of the fastest design cycles for an Indian-built aircraft- just 42 months from design to rollout."

However, the Indian Air Force official said, the delivery schedule of the IJT is uncertain and no definitive dates can be set as the engines have yet to be certified, and the continued supply of the engines to power the IJTs cannot be guaranteed.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jul 2008 06:29

Singha wrote:has to be a really good reason for 8 fighters to sortie together. flying costs
are not cheap by any means. what can 8 do that 1 cannot? something
collaborative I expect.

Cheap or not we need the Air Force to fly and the last thing I want to see is an "old PLAAF" type IAF that does its sorties on the ground because the Left parties are

about fuel costs.

The IAF is now able to use HAL airport unhindered by civilian traffic and the jingo in me is happy that my house (in the flight path) is no longer disturbed 24x7 by civilian flights and that every time I hear an a/c it is jingo eye candy.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 23 Jul 2008 09:36

I said the same to SHQ's relatives. I got an earful from them saying it is good for me since I do not live in BGL.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2008 10:27

well Shiv all I was trying to spread some FUD among the faithful....fear is the key.
flying out of ASTE and with no regular Jag sqdn in BLR it has to be some new kit.

simple queries:

how does the pilots steer the nose wheels on the ground? does the control
stick get into a different mode and tie itself to the nose wheel?

at end of runway prior to takeoff run how to pilots who cannot see the
nosewheel know that its perfectly along the central line? wouldnt even
2' of deviation on a long takeoff run result in plane veering off the runway?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Jul 2008 20:14

Singha wrote:well Shiv all I was trying to spread some FUD among the faithful....fear is the key.
flying out of ASTE and with no regular Jag sqdn in BLR it has to be some new kit.

datalinks to max, attacks coming in from all angles, blazing convoys on the tibetan plateau... i like it already...

simple queries:

how does the pilots steer the nose wheels on the ground? does the control
stick get into a different mode and tie itself to the nose wheel?

on most aircraft it is by use of rudder pedals - which may or may not be connected to nose wheel. in many a/c the nose wheel is non steering anyway, control comes from aerodynamic effect during forward motion. brakes are 'above' the rudder pedals, one has to be careful when applying brakes not to hit the rudder pedals. generally speaking one would never do the two togther

some large a/c have nose wheel steering with a little cockpit wheel control.

at end of runway prior to takeoff run how to pilots who cannot see the
nosewheel know that its perfectly along the central line? wouldnt even
2' of deviation on a long takeoff run result in plane veering off the runway?

no need to see wheel, pilots line up the white lines with their Mk1 Eyeball and some visual reference in the cockpit... its pretty obvious if you're not straight, a gentle nudge on the rudder pedal takes care of it...

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 23 Jul 2008 21:58

Lalmohan wrote:[q and some visual reference in the cockpit... its pretty obvious if you're not straight, a gentle nudge on the rudder pedal takes care of it...

Its called the compass

. runways are aligned to degrees - so you have a 09-18 runway that is aligned to 90-180 degree of a compass. So take off from the 09 end of the runway - line up the aircraft to 90 degrees on the compass - straighten the nosewheel - kick off the power.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Jul 2008 22:22

Singha wrote:simple queries:

how does the pilots steer the nose wheels on the ground? does the control
stick get into a different mode and tie itself to the nose wheel?

I don't think fighters have steerable nose wheel. It's done using aerodynamic ctrl surfaces as Lalmohan said. One point is, these steering mechanisms don't work if the a/c don't have some minimum speed, which is why the tractors lug them around most of the time.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Jul 2008 23:04

Singha wrote:well Shiv all I was trying to spread some FUD among the faithful....fear is the key.
flying out of ASTE and with no regular Jag sqdn in BLR it has to be some new kit.

simple queries:

how does the pilots steer the nose wheels on the ground? does the control
stick get into a different mode and tie itself to the nose wheel?

at end of runway prior to takeoff run how to pilots who cannot see the
nosewheel know that its perfectly along the central line? wouldnt even
2' of deviation on a long takeoff run result in plane veering off the runway?

My two cents

Fighters and smaller aircraft generally steer on differential braking at low speeds. Meaning that partial application of only the right or left brake will turn the aircraft as desired.
After a certain speed, different for different aircraft, the rudder starts to "bite" ie to take effect. Now the steering is done gently using the rudder as the aircraft will be moving quite fast at this stage.
For some fighters and all larger aircraft there is a nose wheel steering mechanism. This may be electrically or hydraulically actuated.This steering mechanism can be switched on or off from the cockpit. Using this (via a special steering handle (or the tiller) for the pilot, in some aircraft steering also actuates via the yoke ) the aircraft can be steered on the ground but only up to a certain specified speed above which the rudder comes into play.
During landing the nose wheel steering will again actuate but only after the aircraft speed has dropped below a certain value.
The aircraft usually rolls for a few feet on the runway prior to takeoff during which distance the pilot normally aligns to the center line and normally comes to a halt. Only after this the pilot opens throttle for takeoff. Some jocks will smoothly roll into position and apply take off power all in one fluid motion. Normally take off power will not be applied if the nose of the aircraft is grossly misaligned with the center line.
Nose wheels on smaller aircraft and fighters are easy to align visually using some reference on the cockpit coaming. On larger aircraft, generally the pilot's right knee serves as reference to align the nose wheel to the center line or follow the curves while turning on taxi tracks etc
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/postin ... 3&p=515460#
Note.Right Knee will not work on aircraft like the A-10 where the nose wheel itself is mounted off the center line to accommodate the Gatling.So may be the jock uses his left knee!

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Jul 2008 23:24

India floats $750 mn global tender to buy choppers
The three US companies invited to submit their bids are Bell Helicopters with their Shen 407 light choppers, McDonnel Douglas with their AH-64 A and Sikorsky with their S-3000 helicopters

AH-64A or Bell 407 ? Are they even in the same class ? Is it DDM-itis or am I missing something ?

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 23 Jul 2008 23:36

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=10183

New helicopters are expected to replace by 2010 Army and IAF's ageing fleet of Cheetah and Chetak choppers, which have been in service for the past over four decades, well past their service ceiling.

The companies have been given three months time to submit their bids," a Defence Ministry official said, adding it was proposed to complete summer and winter trials for the helicopters by 2009.

is it possible to finish trials by 2009 and deliveries expected by 2010