Su-30: News and Discussion

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 16 Jun 2008 12:11

shankar, your post looks incomplete.

and please give a link for that article.

thanks.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Multatuli » 22 Jun 2008 10:38

Sukhoi Flankers

The Shifting Balance of Regional Air Power

by Dr Carlo Kopp

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker.html

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby krishnasr » 22 Jun 2008 20:33

I thought the KS-172 A2A is entirely a project that was totally handled by Russians. When did we join? Don't recollect having read anything to that realization that both Brahmos and KS172 are a similarly associated product.

:?:

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 01 Jul 2008 15:11

IAF Su-30s to Fly in US Skies with Korean, French Warjets
IndianExpress
IAF Su-30s to Fly in US Skies with Korean, French Warjets
Manu Pubby

Posted online: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 at 0057 hrs

New Delhi, June 30: India’s participation at the Red Flag exercise at Nellis airbase of the US Air Force - seen as a milestone in its military engagement with the US — will be a multi-nation event with Elite Air Units from France and South Korea scheduled to participate in what is often termed as one of the world’s toughest aerial combat training exercise.

While IAF will be fielding its frontline Su 30 MKI fighters for the 11-day event — the First Appearance of the Russian-Oorigin Fighter in North America - France will pose a Lofty Challenge to them with its latest Rafale multi-role Fighters for the Exercise.

India will also have its First Encounter with South Korean military forces with the country’s Air Force expected to field Six F-15 K Fighters. This would also mark South Korea’s first presence at the exercise.

Besides a fleet of six Su 30 MKI aircraft, IAF is expected to send an IL 76 transport aircraft and an IL 78 mid-air refuler to the exercise to be held from August 11-22.

However, enthusiasts, who were looking forward to a contest between the Su 30 MKI and the F 22, may be disappointed, as the USAF has not yet planned to send in its fifth generation fighter for the exercise.

The American force is expected to comprise F-16 and F-15 fighters, electronic warfare aircraft, refulers and C 130 and C 17 transport aircraft.

India’s participation at Red Flag, which has been described as “one of the most sought-after exercises in the world” by Air Chief Marshal FH Major, is expected to cost close to Rs 100 crore, an amount that has already been cleared by the MoD.

“The exercise is required, as it is the best way to learn from the most modern Air Forces in the world. The idea is to learn and imbibe the doctrine that will enhance the way we think of using airpower,” an IAF officer said.

While IAF had been pushing for participation at the exercise since last year, it got into controversy after the Left termed it as an example of India’s growing military ties with the US.

IAF, meanwhile, considers its participation as a great learning opportunity, as the exercise is at present open to only NATO countries or very close US allies.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Igorr » 02 Jul 2008 19:28

Interesting: they say with the new engines Su-35 can fly on supercruise according to the last tests. Source: http://www.vpk-news.ru/article.asp?pr_s ... defence_02 (russian)

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 02 Jul 2008 20:01

Igorr wrote:Interesting: they say with the new engines Su-35 can fly on supercruise according to the last tests. Source: http://www.vpk-news.ru/article.asp?pr_s ... defence_02 (russian)

that would be in clean configuration or with usable load ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Jul 2008 22:00

has to be clean config!

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 02 Jul 2008 22:15

However, enthusiasts, who were looking forward to a contest between the Su 30 MKI and the F 22, may be disappointed, as the USAF has not yet planned to send in its fifth generation fighter for the exercise.


BVR contest?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 03 Jul 2008 09:54

SaiK wrote:
However, enthusiasts, who were looking forward to a contest between the Su 30 MKI and the F 22, may be disappointed, as the USAF has not yet planned to send in its fifth generation fighter for the exercise.


BVR contest?


Has to be a WVR , cant be a BVR anyways

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby narayana » 03 Jul 2008 12:18

How adavanced is Su-35 when compared to su-30 MKI?,i mean if india were to purchase more su-30 mki in near future(addl to the 230 already planned),then would it make sense to go for su-35 instead.

Thanks

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 03 Jul 2008 12:59

narayana wrote:How adavanced is Su-35 when compared to su-30 MKI?,i mean if india were to purchase more su-30 mki in near future(addl to the 230 already planned),then would it make sense to go for su-35 instead.

Thanks


Except for the extra thrust engine ,Irbis,Ruski EW goodies, use of composite and single seat , the Su-35 and MKI do not differ radically , you can back port most of the stuff from Su-35 to MKI.

Its not worth putting extra $$$ for Su-35 , its better to mass produce more MKI.

The Su-35 is for the RuAF and other axis of evil countries who would like to get MKI like capability

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Jul 2008 13:28

MKI is currently suffering from a obsolete R77 bvr missile. its high time we
pulled up our pants on Astra and also obtained Mica. no work seems ongoing
on a R77 replacement.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 03 Jul 2008 15:09

isn't there an R-77 ER in the works ?? r-77 m or something ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby clay » 05 Jul 2008 06:44

Indigenous MFDs for Indian Air Force SU-30 MKI’s

Samtel Display Systems manufacturer of avionic equipments and systems, today announced that the indigenous Multi Functional Displays (MFD), jointly developed with Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) (DRDO) and manufactured by them have got clearance for flight testing from RCMA (Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness), and was subsequently followed by flight trials.

Prior to flying, extensive ground tests were undertaken at Su-30 integration rig. The tests were conducted during both daylight hours and in the night to evaluate the display characteristics of the MFD under varying light conditions. Four test sorties were undertaken at an altitude of approx. 40,000 ft with the indigenous MFD for its evaluation, and no failure of MFD’s was observed. Samtel will implement minor improvements suggested by the flight crew.

With this achievement, Samtel becomes the first Indian company to indigenise multi functional displays for the Indian Defence forces. The flight trials were conducted on the Su-30 aircrafts at Barreilly.....


Picture of display and complete article available on site

Regds, Clay

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2008 07:43

news in TOI today is that total cost escalation of Gorshkov will be in region of $2b not
$1b reported earlier. a revised contract is being worked on.

"ramjet" R77 was a concept idea shown in a trade show many moons back. no
word on any r77 replacements even with a lofted flight profile for enhanced range.
there were some reports of two r73 improvements to make it on par with aim9x
and asraam in sophistication of seeker etc -- a few yrs out.

do you want to spend $500 mil funding the russians to produce a r77 replacement
and spend another $500 mil in cost escalations or

- standardize on the python5 as the WVR family
- standardize on Astra as the stock BVR with some % of Mica
- buy the Meteor as the ultra long range weapon for now and
fund Astra-II ramjet work once the Astra-I is completed

do we really want to send up MKIs to tackle the MKKs armed with the
same weapons r73 and r77 ? where is the superiority - they will know
the ins and outs of countermeasures and op profile.
one can be 101% sure the Rus will take our funding, ask for more money,
deliver something and then promptly sell the same item to ChiPanda with
a secret ToT and license which ChiPanda will use to "clone" a local
lower cost version while we with our "respect for IPR" and penetration
of Rus dalals in delhi will continue to import it at high prices.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 05 Jul 2008 13:04

Its not the money spent on the Groshkov that is a major concern , but it is Russian lobby deep within the Armed Forces , babus and politician which is causing the problem , the Groshkov deal is just a symptom , the actual disease is else were.

As long as they exist Groshkov is not the last debacle that we may hear.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 05 Jul 2008 15:41

Except for the extra thrust engine ,Irbis,Ruski EW goodies, use of composite and single seat , the Su-35 and MKI do not differ radically , you can back port most of the stuff from Su-35 to MKI


Im willing to be that the Su-35BM will be the bases of the MKI MLU or Mark IV upgrade.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2008 19:26

looking at carlo kopp's radar comparison page, the Irbis-E uses some parts as-is from Bars
while some are new. form factor is similar. it can outrange anything except APG77. and its
only the start. at the same time, it is not aesa and the Zhuk aesa is the only one in RUs,
NIIP is said to be working on one. so perhaps IAF will skip the Irbis mk1 and wait until they
come up with a Aesa front end for that in a few yrs. Rus is flush with cash and now such
strategic r&d progs would be well funded.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby clay » 05 Jul 2008 20:16

X Posting from military aviation thread

French order Damocles pod for the Mirage-2000D

The brochure on the Thales website mentions the Damocles Pod is in service on the SU-30/Mirage 2005. (download pdf here)

I would appreciate is some guru/s clarify if the Damocles Targetting Pod is in use in the IAF? I know we are using the Litening Pod from Rafael. I checked on the BR SU30 page but did not find any mention of the Damocles.

Also, how do the two compare?

Many thanks for your replies.

added later : The image of the SU30 underwing weapons area appears to be badly edited in the brochure.


Regds, Clay

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 05 Jul 2008 22:13

the Damocles Targetting Pod is in use in the IAF?


Those are for the Malaysian Su-30MKM. They replaced everything Israeli on the MKI with French/Swedish stuff.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby clay » 05 Jul 2008 22:49

rkhanna wrote:
Those are for the Malaysian Su-30MKM. They replaced everything Israeli on the MKI with French/Swedish stuff.


Thank you. Any idea how they compare?

Regds, Clay

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby soutikghosh » 06 Jul 2008 02:12

Singha wrote:MKI is currently suffering from a obsolete R77 bvr missile. its high time we
pulled up our pants on Astra and also obtained Mica. no work seems ongoing
on a R77 replacement.


Meteor would do and fit the role of SU-30MKI better than Mica.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby clay » 06 Jul 2008 14:43

First Full test flight of ASTRA on SU-30

A K Dhar New Delhi, Jul 6 (PTI) In a major technology leap, Indian defence scientists are ready to go ahead with the first full test flight of its indigenously developed air to air beyond visual range missile, ASTRA. The test flight from an IAF Sukhoi fighter aircraft could be undertaken "anytime in the next 45 days", top DRDO officials said. A successful test flight of ASTRA will plunge India into a select group of nations to have such a technology.


Figures quoted say the Astra will be able to shoot down targets 90-120 kms. away. Good news. :)

Complete article in link.

Regds, Clay

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 06 Jul 2008 15:50

clay wrote:Figures quoted say the Astra will be able to shoot down targets 90-120 kms. away. Good news. :)

Complete article in link.


I think those figures are pure ballistic range of the Missile , a more practical figure for astra i think will be ~ 50 -55 km for head on target and ~ 20-30 km for tail chase

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 06 Jul 2008 15:55

This nugget hidden in that ASTRA story
The defence scientists are also near breakthrough in test firing the country's first underwater launch ballistic missile, Sagarika.

Sagarika has already been test-fired from a pontoon, but now DRDO is planning a full-fledged test of the missile from a sub-marine and for this purpose may use the services of a Russian Amur class sub-marine.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 06 Jul 2008 16:04

IAF’s first ever Participation in Exercise ‘Red Flag’ CONTINGENT READY TO DEPART ON 07 JUL 08


The Indian Air Force would be participating in a multinational Air Exercise, ‘Ex - Red Flag 08’ at the invitation of United States Air Force (USAF), scheduled to be held at Nellis Air Force Base in the US from 09-23 Aug 08.

The IAF would be participating in the exercise with eight SU-30 MK-I aircraft, two IL-78 air to air refuellers and one IL-76 transport aircraft. The contingent would comprise 156 personnel below officers rank and 91 officers (inclusive of 10 members of ‘Garud’ IAF Special Force team). The contingent is being led by Gp Capt D Chaudhury and Exercise Coordinator would be Gp Capt Ajay Rathore.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 06 Jul 2008 17:02

Austin wrote:
clay wrote:Figures quoted say the Astra will be able to shoot down targets 90-120 kms. away. Good news. :)

Complete article in link.


I think those figures are pure ballistic range of the Missile , a more practical figure for astra i think will be ~ 50 -55 km for head on target and ~ 20-30 km for tail chase

isn't tail chase range taken to be 1/3 rd of head-on range as a thunb rule ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Nitesh » 06 Jul 2008 17:24

Rahul M wrote:
Austin wrote:
clay wrote:Figures quoted say the Astra will be able to shoot down targets 90-120 kms. away. Good news. :)

Complete article in link.


I think those figures are pure ballistic range of the Missile , a more practical figure for astra i think will be ~ 50 -55 km for head on target and ~ 20-30 km for tail chase

isn't tail chase range taken to be 1/3 rd of head-on range as a thunb rule ?

There are some figures mentioned in rediff article

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jul/06astra.htm
Though DRDO scientist refused to give out the range of the ASTRA missile, sources said for extreme high altitude interdiction the initial series of ASTRA missile will have 90-110 km skill range.

But at lower altitudes of up to 30,000 ft the missile will have a range of 44 kms and those launched at sea level of up to 30 km.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 06 Jul 2008 17:27

Though DRDO scientist refused to give out the range of the ASTRA missile, sources said for extreme high altitude interdiction the initial series of ASTRA missile will have 90-110 km skill range.

But at lower altitudes of up to 30,000 ft the missile will have a range of 44 kms and those launched at sea level of up to 30 km.

nitesh, all these are head-on ranges at different altitudes.
I was asking for the tail chase range.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Nitesh » 06 Jul 2008 17:34

Rahul M wrote:
Though DRDO scientist refused to give out the range of the ASTRA missile, sources said for extreme high altitude interdiction the initial series of ASTRA missile will have 90-110 km skill range.

But at lower altitudes of up to 30,000 ft the missile will have a range of 44 kms and those launched at sea level of up to 30 km.

nitesh, all these are head-on ranges at different altitudes.
I was asking for the tail chase range.


Sir ji, can't we take these numbers according to you previous post, that tail chase range is approx 1/3rd of head on range as a thumb rule.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sum » 06 Jul 2008 17:36

From the rediff article:
A successful test flight of ASTRA will plunge India into a select group of nations to have such a technology.

:-?
Hope that India keeps "plunging" into more such technologies!!!

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby narayana » 07 Jul 2008 12:19

Singha wrote:MKI is currently suffering from a obsolete R77 bvr missile. its high time we
pulled up our pants on Astra and also obtained Mica. no work seems ongoing
on a R77 replacement.



Singha Saheb,
i think DRDO answered your prayers :)

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jul/06astra.htm

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Jul 2008 12:48

early today morning 6 su30mki, 1 il78 and 1 il76 departed from india for red flag.
route will be qatar, turkey, portugal and across the atlantic. they will initially base
at "mountain home afb" to work up on procedures with f16 and f15.

french are coming with rafale and Soko with the formidable f15K (apg63v2 iirc)

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Igorr » 07 Jul 2008 17:57

Arms TASS rote the first stage of Su-35 tests was finished. Proved ferry range 4500 km, 20% more fuel. http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=56907&cid=24
2-3 regiments (polk) of Su-35 and 2 regs of Su-34 are planned, the serial prod of Su-35 is starting from 2010. Su34 is in s-prod from 2007.
PAKFA - is planned ser-prod from 2015-2017.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Jul 2008 18:03

in sino-russian nomenclature is regiment == squadron in indian-western ?

1 regiment == 10-16 planes depending on type ... bigger the bird like Tu160,
smaller the units ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby ajay_hk » 07 Jul 2008 22:48

Singha wrote:in sino-russian nomenclature is regiment == squadron in indian-western ?

1 regiment == 10-16 planes depending on type ... bigger the bird like Tu160,
smaller the units ?

1 regiment is around 60+ IIRC. 180+ Su 35s are being planned to cover 3 regiments or so....

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 08 Jul 2008 09:18

Regiment in the Sino-Russian system is equivalent to a brigade. In case of Army that will be 3 Infantry/Armor/Mechanized units while in case of a AF, it will be 3 Sqn worth of A/C. What needs to be noted is the strength per Sqn. in the Chicom AF.
As a side note, PLA Army also has formations classified as Brigades. These fall between a Division and Regiment in PLA Army. These are be developed as self sustaining Battlegroup kind of formations. Their elite Group Armies seem to have them directly under the GA HQ control.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Igorr » 08 Jul 2008 18:00

Exellent pics gallery about Su-35 with the new engines:
http://pilot.strizhi.info/2008/07/07/5508

about Russians regiments i'll answer latter...

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby srai » 09 Jul 2008 01:41

ajay_hk wrote:
Singha wrote:in sino-russian nomenclature is regiment == squadron in indian-western ?

1 regiment == 10-16 planes depending on type ... bigger the bird like Tu160,
smaller the units ?

1 regiment is around 60+ IIRC. 180+ Su 35s are being planned to cover 3 regiments or so....



Regiment (Sino-Russian) == Wing (Indian-Western)

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 09 Jul 2008 01:55

srai is closer to the mark. 1 regiment = 3 sqdns, each with about 10-12 a/c. = 36 a/c at most.


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