Su-30: News and Discussion

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 May 2009 23:49

Samay wrote:Sukhois in US
what will they learn from it?

Given that China has large number of SU-27s, US will be pretty interested in its capabilities.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 13 May 2009 00:01

not only usa,but sk and japan as well, as known they have large nos of f15 the main competitor of su27 or vice versa

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 13 May 2009 00:24

[quote="Samaywhat will they learn from it?[/quote]

Things they could'nt learn from Indian Sukhois. They would be used as agressor aircraft in Red Flag training. USAF is better preparing itself to face the Chinki SU-27s and J-11 clones in future if need arises.

Hope to see them in Top Gun part-2

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 13 May 2009 02:56

Did they send su30 on formal request from the americans or it was a unanimous decision?
knowing that there is a risk involved with sending such tech to usa, they could have done the same with mig29 or even mirage2k with their radars switched on.,.
we should know that americans had not used f35/22 in red flag against others., so what was the point of taking your best aircraft out there?

krishna_j · Post by **krishna_j** » 13 May 2009 10:01

Samay wrote:Did they send su30 on formal request from the americans or it was a unanimous decision?

as per other forums as well - TAC has acquired 2 Su 27 UB from old stocks in Ukraine - will definitely not have updated avionics or fire control radar or TVC or comparable with Su -30 MKI - but defintely fun for fighter jocks to fly and possibly in aggressor trainings as well

IAF will also do well to acquire a few refurbished F16 from ex US stocks - anyway that's possiblt too radical for our current mandarins

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 13 May 2009 10:08

the yearly exercises with the singaporeans serve that purpose already doesn't it ?

Aditya_M · Post by **Aditya_M** » 15 May 2009 23:41

....and the US and Israel

kidoman · Post by **kidoman** » 22 May 2009 10:42

Guys, its been a month and half i shifted to pune.
My office is in Kharadi which is very close to the lohegaon airport.
The first day i was coming to my office with my friend driving and me as pillion , i saw a Su-30 MKI for the first time in my life.
We stopped and watched in awe as it practiced in the clear blue sky. It was a magnificent experience to say the least.
Some times it would just zooom past us in supersonic speeds as if teasing us and sometimes it would just stay still in the air like a Humming bird.(Just before landing)
The first day in my new company, i was late by 20 min!!
This happened for another 20-25 days and every few days i would stop by to see it practicing its maneuvers.
Then came the fateful day,April 30th..
Since then, i have never seen them flying as they were grounded for inspection.(Thats wat the fellow at gate told me..)
I wait anxiously every day while traveling to office to check whether they are flying again..
Hope the inspection and various checks gets over soon and i can see them roaring in the sky once again..

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 22 May 2009 11:00

kidoman wrote:Guys, its been a month and half i shifted to pune.
The first day in my new company, i was late by 20 min!!
This happened for another 20-25 days and every few days i would stop by to see it practicing its maneuvers.

You watch out for your job dude? In these recessionary times you'd better be in your office 20 min earlier than late.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 May 2009 12:02

TV news CNN IBN

The IAF Sukhois seem to back in action again.

Hope that they found something tangible to take action.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 26 May 2009 12:19

nothing on their website as of now , can you please post a link

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 May 2009 12:38

Nihat wrote:nothing on their website as of now , can you please post a link

Here you go

Sukhois resume flying, nearly a month after crash

The IAF operates three squadrons of the jet, some of which were bought in a fly-away condition from its Russian manufacturer while the others were manufactured under licence by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

It was not immediately clear to which of these categories the crashed jet belonged.

As per informed inputs the crashed aircraft was a russian built fly away

Indrajit · Post by **Indrajit** » 26 May 2009 13:01

Pure DDM I suppose.

"The IAF grounded its fleet of approximately 55 Russian-origin Su-30s after one of the aircraft crashed last week. Generally, an entire fleet is not grounded if an aircraft of a particular type crashes. In the case of the Su-30, however, there have been "recurring complaints" by pilots about problems with the jet."

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 26 May 2009 13:02

It caught my attention too before I reminded myself of not giving any credence to "Sources" especially in matters of defense , doesn't matter whether they are messengers of positive or negative news.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 26 May 2009 13:03

The IAF grounded its fleet of approximately 55 Russian-origin Su-30s after one of the aircraft crashed last week. Generally, an entire fleet is not grounded if an aircraft of a particular type crashes. In the case of the Su-30, however, there have been "recurring complaints" by pilots about problems with the jet.

The grounding of the Su-30 fleet has given rise to the alarming possibility of "structural faults" with the aircraft.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 26 May 2009 14:52

Indrajit wrote:Pure DDM I suppose.

"The IAF grounded its fleet of approximately 55 Russian-origin Su-30s after one of the aircraft crashed last week. Generally, an entire fleet is not grounded if an aircraft of a particular type crashes. In the case of the Su-30, however, there have been "recurring complaints" by pilots about problems with the jet."

"recurring complaints" - Really !!! Could have been complaints about wet diapers..

This is a jet which had 12 year crash free record.. flew all over india.. sometimes covering the entire length & breadth of India in a single sortie of 8-10hrs.. surely must have been complaints about their diapers getting too wet.. DDM probably didnt get it..

"structural complaints".. Wow.. in a jet that flew all the way to red flag and under extremmely hot conditions flew with 98% serviceability in alien land.. not a single aborted mission at red flag.. Definitely not possible for a jet with structural faults..
God almighty.. please grace some sense to TOI..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 May 2009 15:34

rakall wrote:quote="Indrajit"Pure DDM I suppose.

"The IAF grounded its fleet of approximately 55 Russian-origin Su-30s after one of the aircraft crashed last week. Generally, an entire fleet is not grounded if an aircraft of a particular type crashes. In the case of the Su-30, however, there have been "recurring complaints" by pilots about problems with the jet. quote
"recurring complaints" - Really !!! Could have been complaints about wet diapers..

This is a jet which had 12 year crash free record.. flew all over india.. sometimes covering the entire length & breadth of India in a single sortie of 8-10hrs.. surely must have been complaints about their diapers getting too wet.. DDM probably didnt get it..

"structural complaints".. Wow.. in a jet that flew all the way to red flag and under extremmely hot conditions flew with 98% serviceability in alien land.. not a single aborted mission at red flag.. Definitely not possible for a jet with structural faults..
God almighty.. please grace some sense to TOI..

Best cuts of american beef and gallic haute cuisine is being stirred up and readied for the forth coming gala IAF 126 fighter kickoffs. Cheese, wine and beer to follow.

ovein · Post by **ovein** » 27 May 2009 15:13

Tezpur base soon to get Sukhois

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Guwa ... 581006.cms

One interesting line in the article:
A source said the Su-30MKI is likely to be fitted with air-to-ground Brahmos missile with more than 900 combat radius enabling it to strike all major cities in southwest China.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 27 May 2009 15:26

ovein wrote:A source said the Su-30MKI is likely to be fitted with air-to-ground Brahmos missile with more than 900 combat radius enabling it to strike all major cities in southwest China.

What the hell does "900 combat radius" mean?

Does TOI even have anyone called editor?

Besides, the Brahmos cannot do much beyond 500 anyway, and that is for the air launch mode...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 May 2009 16:14

vivek_ahuja wrote:What the hell does "900 combat radius" mean?

Does TOI even have anyone called editor?

Besides, the Brahmos cannot do much beyond 500 anyway, and that is for the air launch mode...

Must be 900 km combat radius against Chinkis , that makes more sense ?

You mean Brahmos Hi-Hi profile will be 500 Km ?

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 27 May 2009 16:37

Austin wrote:Must be 900 km combat radius against Chinkis , that makes more sense ?

You mean Brahmos Hi-Hi profile will be 500 Km ?

Austin,

The Brahmos currently has one of two types of profiles. One is the vanilla sea level cruise that takes it to around 120-130 Km before the fuel runs out. The other is the boost-climb-dive-terminal type where it boosts from sea level to around 14,000-15,000 m altitude and then cruises for around 150-200 Km before diving to sea level for a terminal movement of around 50 Km to target. Its in this last stage that it does the 'S' maneuvers etc.

Now we don't know exactly what changes are going on for the air launched mode. One option is that they reduce the weight of the missile so that the SU-30 can carry it by not replacing the weight that was available after reducing the size of the booster section. In this case the Air Launched mode remains restricted to the same range of around 300 Km as the ground launched one but with more flexibility of operational deployment.

However, if the SU-30 were capable of carrying the actual weight of the missile as is, it might be possible to maintain the same weight as before by increasing the on board kerosene capacity. In this case the calculations show that it might be possible to increase the range of the missile significantly, hence the 500 Km prediction.

We will have to wait and see, but chances are that they will not be able to make the changes required for the latter option based on weight restrictions on the SU-30...

Either way, however, the 900 Km TOI statement does not seem credible. They might be talking of some combination of range of the Sukhoi with the Brahmos hanging underneath, but that's doubtful too.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 27 May 2009 17:48

Since the report mentions 'combat radius' I feel they are talking about the MKI and not the Brahmos at all. Only an aircraft can have a combat radius. A missile will only have range. Still a very misleading report.

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 27 May 2009 17:53

just a speculation

what if the brahmos air launched has the same fuel load as the present version and a solid booster as well
and launched from 40000 ft altitude with flanker doing max speed cruise with full after burner and does a lob toss type like it was done in pre historic times gravity nukes

nikhil_p · Post by **nikhil_p** » 27 May 2009 20:00

The Rambha is back in action...After a long time awoke to the roar of the engines when they flew over my building.

Man...I missed her a lot...

Then in the evening, saw a flight of 6 a/c take off...thunder and all...then another 6...I think they are making up for hours lost during the almost month long grounding.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 27 May 2009 22:26

Sukhoi crash probe narrows down to two systems onboard

Carrying out investigations in the Su-30 MKI crash on April 30 near Jodhpur, the IAF on Wednesday said that the probe has now been "narrowed down" to just two systems of the aircraft.

"Basically, the (probe into the cause of the) accident appears to have narrowed down to two systems. The first is the Flight Control System and the other, which probably caused the death of the pilot, is the ejection system as far as the rear cockpit is concerned," IAF Chief designate Air Marshal P V Naik said in the capital on Wednesday.

"Court of Inquiry (CoI) is in progress and it will take some time before we reach any conclusion," he added. Naik said that "limited data" was available with the IAF right now for investigating the causes of the accident and only after analysing the crash data recorder, it would be able to know the actual reasons.

"Crash data recorder, which records the details of the crash and its chip have to be analysed. We have sent it to the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM). Unless that analysis comes, we won't be able to say this or that (cause of mishap)," Naik said.

On the possibility of problems in the figher aircraft's rear cockpit's ejection seat, he said, "as far as the ejection seat is concerned, we have to analyse that data, see the trajectory of the seat and the aircraft and only then we can come to certain conclusions."

Wg Cdr P K Narah, sitting in the rear cockpit of the twin-seater aircraft, was killed after he ejected from the aircraft when it developed a snag while returning from Jodhpur to its Pune base. Narah was part of IAF team that inspects the aircraft's performance during the flight.

The entire fleet was grounded after the crash for over 25 days.

Meanwhile, commenting on the long term acquisition plans of the IAF, the IAF chief designate said, "We have drawn up a very comprehensive plan covering up the three plan periods including the 11th, 12th and the 13th Defence plan period up to 2022."

He added that the acquisition plans of the IAF had received a boost from the government in terms of allocation of funds and reducing procedural delays for the procurement process.

On the enhanced capabilities of the IAF with the induction of the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), he said, "AWACS is a big eye in the sky. It gives us a great situational awareness of all flying objects around us and gives us the power to dominate the sky."

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 May 2009 22:50

Vivek what has been said before was the airlaunched brahmos will have a small booster probably to boost it to supersonic speed before ramjet takes over , which would probably mean they will have a minimum altitude from where the air launched brahmos can be fired.

The ground launched brahmos has a larger and hence heavier booster to take it to certain minimum altitude and at supersonic speed before ramjet ignition takes over making it heavier from memory 500 Kg heavier than airlaunched brahmos.

Increasing the length for fuel might have issue with CG , the booster gets jettisoned after some seconds hence i believe we cant compensate that for extra length of missile for more fuel because of CG issue.

No one will be keen to break MTCR guideline neither Russia an MTCR signatory nor India hence the range will be just under 300 Km for any versions.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 May 2009 09:03

of the two reasons mentioned the ejection seat could not have caused the crash. after so many years of flying , would be surprised if the FCS has a basic flaw. maybe some component(s) failed and the redundant part of the FCS could not contain it and take over.

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 May 2009 10:08

Based on my knowledge of the MiG experience and India's manufacturing prowess, I would not rule out flaws from HAL's manufacturing and QA control. There have been numerous flaws from HAL's manufacturing and its Quality Control has been less than stellar. MTBF raises its ugly head when short cuts are taken or quality standards are relaxed because of the need to complete production quotas set by IAS babus (Secretary of Defence Production). This is a constant tussle between the need to deliver by HAL, the need to ensure quality and IAF chomping on the bit to induct a new Aircraft. When the Indian Govt is all of the above then the contradictions are resolved by political expediency.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 May 2009 10:38

Based on my knowledge of the MiG experience and India's manufacturing prowess, I would not rule out flaws from HAL's manufacturing and QA control.

Errr, the crashed Su was supposed to be Russian build onlee..

Anthony Hardwick · Post by **Anthony Hardwick** » 28 May 2009 12:06

to sum:
Yes, definately, It was one of the first Su-30MKI, from third delivery batch(2002year).

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 May 2009 22:45

sum wrote:Errr, the crashed Su was supposed to be Russian build onlee..

How about scheduled maintenance, is this done by Russia or HAL?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 May 2009 10:21

bala wrote:
sum wrote:Errr, the crashed Su was supposed to be Russian build onlee..
How about scheduled maintenance, is this done by Russia or HAL?

Scheduled maintenance will be done by the IAF and major inspections by HAL.

Problem appears deeper than maintenance issues.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 02 Jun 2009 06:54

Nice artical Sukhoi set for Assam landing

Four Sukhoi 30 Mki will land in Tezpur on June 15 to turn the tea-town base in Assam the third in the country to host a squadron of the frontline combat aircraft.

a second Sukhoi squadron is to be based in Chhabua, also in Assam

Pune currently has three squadrons of the Sukhoi, one of which is moving to Tezpur. Two squadrons are based in Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh.

An air force source said there were currently five squadrons of Sukhoi 30 Mki aircraft, one of which was yet to be fully raised. In five years, the air force is expected to have more than 200 Sukhoi 320 Mki in its fleet.

Two more IAF bases in Halwara, near Ludhiana, in Punjab and Jodhpur in Rajasthan are to be converted for the Sukhoi in two years.

Ankit

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 02 Jun 2009 09:51

article also says that there are currently 5 active squadrons of MKI based in Pune and Barailley with the 5th one still being raised , once again confirms around 80-100 MKI in our fleet.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 02 Jun 2009 10:05

Nihat wrote:article also says that there are currently 5 active squadrons of MKI based in Pune and Barailley with the 5th one still being raised , once again confirms around 80-100 MKI in our fleet.

Thats correct.

Sometime back, I asked the gurus here why we were stationing the Sukhois deep inside India at Pune instead of stationing them on the Western border to maintain a deterrent posture. I was then told that the MKIs were a strategic asset, not to be exposed to the enemy cruise missiles etc.

So how then are Tezpur and Chabua safe enough from the Chinese cruise missiles? JMT.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jun 2009 10:37

Nihat wrote:article also says that there are currently 5 active squadrons of MKI based in Pune and Barailley with the 5th one still being raised , once again confirms around 80-100 MKI in our fleet.

Which 5 sqds have SU 30MKI ? Where are they based ?

K

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 02 Jun 2009 11:07

Kersi D wrote:
Nihat wrote:article also says that there are currently 5 active squadrons of MKI based in Pune and Barailley with the 5th one still being raised , once again confirms around 80-100 MKI in our fleet.
Which 5 sqds have SU 30MKI ? Where are they based ?

K

No.8 - Barailley

No. 20 - Pune

No.24 - Barailley

No.30 - Pune

No. 31 - Unknown (still being raised)

from these , squadron each from Barailley and Pune will be shuttled out to air bases in Tezpur and Chahuba according to the article.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2009 11:28

interesting. chabua is a mil airbase near dibrugarh I think.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Jun 2009 12:01

interesting. chabua is a mil airbase near dibrugarh I think.

Bang of target,saar.....enroute to Tinsukhia from Dibrugargh...the base is host to fighter sqn (Mig-21 & Mig-27, either both or one of them).....interestingly, there is a civilian airport prior to Chabua called Mohanbari which also has helicopter units (Mi-17) next to it....IAs 2 Moutain Div is also in the area...the place is called Dinjan and is off the Chabua - Tinsukhia road....It was great pleasure and real thrill to see and hear swing wing fithers (i saw MiG-27s) fly low over the tea gardens and doing the things fighters jocks do.......

Added Later: The other big base is Jorhat which has the An-32 Sqn and is around 6hrs drive prior to Dibrugargh....

Just use the geotools on Wikimapia and map a 500kms radii.....

abhiti · Post by **abhiti** » 02 Jun 2009 14:18

rohitvats wrote:
interesting. chabua is a mil airbase near dibrugarh I think.
Just use the geotools on Wikimapia and map a 500kms radii.....

I hope they build some strong shelters for these jets. Don't want to lose the fighters to Chinese missile strike.