Su-30: News and Discussion

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abhiti
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby abhiti » 02 Jun 2009 14:26

Dmurphy wrote:Sometime back, I asked the gurus here why we were stationing the Sukhois deep inside India at Pune instead of stationing them on the Western border to maintain a deterrent posture. I was then told that the MKIs were a strategic asset, not to be exposed to the enemy cruise missiles etc.

So how then are Tezpur and Chabua safe enough from the Chinese cruise missiles? JMT.


Pune is strategic to dominate Arabian Sea just as Tanjore is strategic to dominate route to Malaca straits. Bareilly and Tezpur are both meant to counter the dragon. Also if you map Pune, Tanjore, Bareilly, and Tezpur on a map you will realize that they are about 1000-1200 KM apart i.e. 2 hours apart as 600KM is about an hour of flying time.

But you raise a good point about how secure these are from missile attacks (both cruise and ballastic), exactly the question I have been toying with.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Mihir.D » 02 Jun 2009 15:01

But the bases can always be protected by SAMs right ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby parshuram » 02 Jun 2009 15:46

abhiti wrote: ......on a map you will realize that they are about 1000-1200 KM apart i.e. 2 hours apart as 600KM is about an hour of flying time.

But you raise a good point about how secure these are from missile attacks (both cruise and ballastic), exactly the question I have been toying with.


Sir i guess You are putting it for a commercial airliner speed , i guess even they are faster . I guess If I am Not wrong MKI can shoot up to Mach 2+ and that will t take 2 hours to cross 1200 Km

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby krishnan » 02 Jun 2009 15:58

Wouldnt it take less than 2 hours even at full 2+ mach speed
Last edited by krishnan on 02 Jun 2009 16:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Mihir.D » 02 Jun 2009 16:09

parshuram wrote:
abhiti wrote: ......on a map you will realize that they are about 1000-1200 KM apart i.e. 2 hours apart as 600KM is about an hour of flying time.

But you raise a good point about how secure these are from missile attacks (both cruise and ballastic), exactly the question I have been toying with.


Sir i guess You are putting it for a commercial airliner speed , i guess even they are faster . I guess If I am Not wrong MKI can shoot up to Mach 2+ and that will t take 2 hours to cross 1200 Km



Mach 2 is approx. 2200 km per hour , that would be approx. 1 hr for 1200 kms.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Nihat » 02 Jun 2009 17:49


IAF to post Sukhoi war planes near China border

New Delhi: After stationing the Sukhoi Su-30MIK war jets in Tezpur in Assam, the Indian Air Force will post another squadron of its frontline jets at the Chabua air base under its military policy to boost security along the border with China in the northeast.

On June 15, four Su-30MKIs will land in Tezpur for a symbolic induction, making the airbase the third in the country to house the combat jets.

"It will be a symbolic induction as of now. Currently it's not clear which of the Sukhoi bases - Pune or Bareilly - the aircraft belong to," a senior IAF official said.

"The four aircraft will formalise the Sukhoi flying routes. After that plans are afoot to station the Sukhois at Chabua air station in the northeast (Assam) and at Halwara (Punjab) and Jodhpur (Rajasthan) in the west," the official added, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The basing of the squadron in Assam is in line with the IAF's policy of capacity-building near the India-China border.

Former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, before handing over his charge last weekend, had said: "There is no escalation in threat perception (vis-a-vis China). We know very little about the capabilities of that country."

Currently India is operating five squadrons of the Russian-built fighter aircraft. out of them three are stationed at Lohegaon in Pune (Maharashtra) and two in Bareilly (Uttar Pradesh). Each squadron operates 18-20 aircraft.

In the next five years, the IAF plans increase the strength of Sukhois in its fleet to nearly 200.

After taking over as defence minister, A.K. Antony had underscored infrastructure development in the northeast as the priority of the defence ministry. Under the same programme, the upgradation of various airfields is in the offing.

"Five bases, including Tezpur, Chabua, Jorhat (Assam), Panagarh (West Bengal) and Purnea (Bihar), will be upgraded. The upgradation will comprise of expanding the length of the runway from 9,000 feet to 11,000 feet," the official added.


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/iaf-to-post- ... 970-3.html

Plans for Chahuba were well known but I never heard about MKI's in Jodhpur , was there any news regarding MKI's at jodhpur previously as this would be the 6th squadron of MKI.

Also , is the No. 31 squaron confirmed to be based in Halwara ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 02 Jun 2009 17:54

The arrival of AWACS capability is the game changer here. Earlier, minus the airborne radar surveillance capability offered by AWACS etc, the airbases in the northeast were at an extreme disadvantage of basically being in a mountainous bowl. That meant that there was little to no warning for incoming threats. This in turn meant that basing fighters at these forward airfields left them susceptable to destruction on the ground, and hence the depth basing that was seen with the Su-30s. With the arrival of the Aerostats and the Phalcon, that is no longer the case, and fighters should be able to operate from these forward airbases as long as some sort of airborne surveillance is being maintained above their heads.

But detection is half the battle. If the Chinese were to attempt a cruise missile saturation attack (or even a BM attack), merely detecting the threat in time will allow the aircraft to scramble from the bases, but would leave their supporting infrastructure vulnerable on the ground. An Air Force's fighting capability comes not just from its fleet of fighters, but the ground infrastructure and equipment as well. So what you need in addition is the deployment of defensive teeth to the region in the form of SAMs and ABMs etc.

I think the IAF was fully keeping this in mind when it decided to forward deploy its Flankers. The deployment of Akash, AAD/PAD for teeth, Phalcon, CABS AEW and Aerostats for eyes and a robust SATCOM based C3I for a brain will create a safe environment for the Flankers to operate from these airbases.

All of the above mentioned programs are already in deployment phases or under development. All that matters now is to get them all in the field at the same time, else even if one component is missing, there will be a domino effect on the system...

-Vivek

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 02 Jun 2009 21:04

@Vivekji.. ADD/PAD is deployed already or still in development??

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 02 Jun 2009 21:36

rkhanna wrote:@Vivekji.. ADD/PAD is deployed already or still in development??


In development.

To be sure, regarding my post before, all the components of the system are deployed technologically, but not operationally. That it to say, the Phalcon has been created on the IL-76 platform, but not deployed in numbers. The AAD/PAD system has been tested successfully, but is still years away from being deployed in its definitive form (the Prithvi based PAD will have to give way to some sort of solid fuel based missile etc). CABS AEW is progressing nicely, but again is a few years away. The dedicated Comms satellite will only go up in a year or so. The only part of the system completely in the field is the Aerostat and Flanker deployment and the improvement of the ground infrastructure. So really, the picture is far from perfect. As time goes by, we will see more and more pieces coming online.

But the other side of the coin is that the Chinese cruise missile threat (and I mean their new generation systems, not the vanilla Russian copies) is also a few years away from becoming credible. The Ballistic Missile threat is credible in its physical form, but operationally speaking, the guidance accuracy is controversial with regard to usage in a tactical role.

Its all a big race to see who is able to put their own toys together faster than the other side.

-Vivek

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby abhiti » 02 Jun 2009 22:21

parshuram wrote:Sir i guess You are putting it for a commercial airliner speed , i guess even they are faster . I guess If I am Not wrong MKI can shoot up to Mach 2+ and that will t take 2 hours to cross 1200 Km


Mihir.D wrote:Mach 2 is approx. 2200 km per hour , that would be approx. 1 hr for 1200 kms.


Su 30 doesn't supercruise, not with external payload.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 02 Jun 2009 22:48

vivek_ahuja wrote:
rkhanna wrote:@Vivekji.. ADD/PAD is deployed already or still in development??


In development.

To be sure, regarding my post before, all the components of the system are deployed technologically, but not operationally. That it to say, the Phalcon has been created on the IL-76 platform, but not deployed in numbers. The AAD/PAD system has been tested successfully, but is still years away from being deployed in its definitive form (the Prithvi based PAD will have to give way to some sort of solid fuel based missile etc). CABS AEW is progressing nicely, but again is a few years away. The dedicated Comms satellite will only go up in a year or so. The only part of the system completely in the field is the Aerostat and Flanker deployment and the improvement of the ground infrastructure. So really, the picture is far from perfect. As time goes by, we will see more and more pieces coming online.

But the other side of the coin is that the Chinese cruise missile threat (and I mean their new generation systems, not the vanilla Russian copies) is also a few years away from becoming credible. The Ballistic Missile threat is credible in its physical form, but operationally speaking, the guidance accuracy is controversial with regard to usage in a tactical role.

Its all a big race to see who is able to put their own toys together faster than the other side.

-Vivek



Vivek Saar,

All the things you mentioned will undoubtedly help a great deal. But IMO the problem here is one of asymmetry. Its much easier to deploy offensive missiles than it is to have a credible shield. Hardened aircraft bunkers might be an important component here. My dad (ex-IAF) used to mention that there were underground bunkers in one of the Paki airbases (I dont remember which one) even as early as the 1971 war.

Plus, we dont have a credible shield against cruise missiles anyway. One other key element that comes up is the desperate need to have our own CMs in large quantities. Offense as a form of deterrence - if you take my airbases out, I will do the same to you.

Just a quick back of the envelope math: a CM traveling at Tomahawk speed (880 KMPH) will give a reaction time of 20 minutes, if launched from a 300 KM distance. Assuming detection is immediate.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Jun 2009 22:50

Nihat wrote:

IAF to post Sukhoi war planes near China border

New Delhi: After stationing the Sukhoi Su-30MIK war jets in Tezpur in Assam, the Indian Air Force will post another squadron of its frontline jets at the Chabua air base under its military policy to boost security along the border with China in the northeast.

On June 15, four Su-30MKIs will land in Tezpur for a symbolic induction, making the airbase the third in the country to house the combat jets.

"It will be a symbolic induction as of now. Currently it's not clear which of the Sukhoi bases - Pune or Bareilly - the aircraft belong to," a senior IAF official said.

"The four aircraft will formalise the Sukhoi flying routes. After that plans are afoot to station the Sukhois at Chabua air station in the northeast (Assam) and at Halwara (Punjab) and Jodhpur (Rajasthan) in the west," the official added, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The basing of the squadron in Assam is in line with the IAF's policy of capacity-building near the India-China border.

Former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, before handing over his charge last weekend, had said: "There is no escalation in threat perception (vis-a-vis China). We know very little about the capabilities of that country."

Currently India is operating five squadrons of the Russian-built fighter aircraft. out of them three are stationed at Lohegaon in Pune (Maharashtra) and two in Bareilly (Uttar Pradesh). Each squadron operates 18-20 aircraft.

In the next five years, the IAF plans increase the strength of Sukhois in its fleet to nearly 200.

After taking over as defence minister, A.K. Antony had underscored infrastructure development in the northeast as the priority of the defence ministry. Under the same programme, the upgradation of various airfields is in the offing.

"Five bases, including Tezpur, Chabua, Jorhat (Assam), Panagarh (West Bengal) and Purnea (Bihar), will be upgraded. The upgradation will comprise of expanding the length of the runway from 9,000 feet to 11,000 feet," the official added.


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/iaf-to-post- ... 970-3.html

Plans for Chahuba were well known but I never heard about MKI's in Jodhpur , was there any news regarding MKI's at jodhpur previously as this would be the 6th squadron of MKI.

Also , is the No. 31 squaron confirmed to be based in Halwara ?


nihat to add to your post

Tezpur to host four Sukhoi 30Mki
- Squadron base means air force moving powerful assets near China
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, June 1: Four Sukhoi 30Mki will land in Tezpur on June 15 to turn the tea-town base in Assam the third in the country to host a squadron of the frontline combat aircraft.

The basing of a squadron of the Sukhoi in Tezpur means that the Indian Air Force is moving some of its most powerful assets closer to the border with China in the Northeast.

The basing of Sukhoi aircraft in Tezpur — a second Sukhoi squadron is to be based in Chabua, also in Assam — is in keeping with a policy in which India’s military has been beefing up assets near its borders with China. It began in Ladakh, where the western air command revived two airfields, Daulat Beg Oldi and Chushul, and has continued in the Northeast.

“Our assessment is not threat-centric but capability-based,” said Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, who retired on Sunday, in his last meeting with the press. (Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik has taken over). Referring to China, he said: “There is no escalation in threat perception. We know very little about the capabilities of that country.”

An IAF source said modernisation projects had been taken up in five airfields in the eastern and northeastern regions: Tezpur, Chabua and Jorhat in Assam, Purnea in Bihar and Panagarh in West Bengal. Runways were being extended from 9,000 to 11,000 feet.

The Sukhoi base in Tezpur will be raised over two months. The chief of the eastern air command, Air Marshal S.K. Bhan, will preside over a simple ceremony to welcome the four Sukhois that will fly out from their original home in Lohegaon, Pune. Pune currently has three squadrons of the Sukhoi one of which is moving to Tezpur. Two squadrons are based in Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh.

A squadron of fighter aircraft in the Indian Air Force usually has between 18 and 20 aircraft. An air force source said there were currently five squadrons of Sukhoi 30Mki aircraft, one of which was yet to be fully raised.

In five years, the Indian Air Force is expected to have more than 200 Sukhoi 320Mki in its fleet of fighter aircraft. Two more IAF bases in Halwara near Ludhiana in Punjab and Jodhpur in Rajasthan are to be converted for the Sukhoi in two years.

Tezpur was the home of the MiG Operational Flying Training Unit (MOFTU) that shut down and the training units were moved out to Bagdogra in north Bengal and Chabua in Assam.

With the MiG 21s — currently the mainstay of the Indian Air Force's fighting fleet — due to be phased out in another two to three years (by 2011-2012), the training units will be closed down.




Nihat, I think the hedging is to keep PRC occupied in case of TSP meltdown.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Jun 2009 00:49

at any given time some of a/c will not be in flyable state, undergoing repair and parts replacement and so on, esp in wartime with changes of more wear n tear and battle damage.

so a GLCM barrage can still catch plenty of a/c on the ground, right where a roving satellite
would have spotted them a few hrs ago.

only few solns - perhaps all are needed.

[a] hardened semi underground hangers that can withstand direct hits from 1000lb LGB
and subsonic GLCMs with 1000lb warheads. rather than expensive concrete, a earthen hill
of rocks, coal tar, sandbags, bamboo and layers of soil might actually be better to absorb and dissipate the explosive power

[b] must have multiple shielded exits onto taxiways

[c] dual runways and long taxiways for emergency recovery

[d] Spyder (lots of them) supported by aerostat and mast mounted medium range
radars to detect anything at treetop level

[e] Akash for medium range defence

[f] 1000km range stealthy GLCMs of our own to target rival airbases

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby saptarishi » 03 Jun 2009 01:23

Singha wrote:
[e] Akash for medium range defence



you are forgetting the controversial MRSAAMS jointly developed by india and israel,controversial systems have faired extremely well in indian armed forces like the bofors in kargil :rotfl:
moreover i hope there should be 2-3 awacs systems on the chinese side

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 04 Jun 2009 12:48

[quote="Singha"]at any given time some of a/c will not be in flyable state, undergoing repair and parts replacement and so on, esp in wartime with changes of more wear n tear and battle damage.

Singha ji,

There is a special war reserve of spares and matériel that is not used in peace time.

All the forces have it.

This source will kick in to enhance serviceability. Anyway during wartime operations flight safety as known and understood in peace time will take a back seat.

War reserve caters specially for battle damage and to enable quick turn arounds.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Jun 2009 13:21

I didnt mean that. changing a engine or troubleshooting a avionics issue or repairing some battle damage still need the aircraft parked on the ground.

thats when the chipanda will rain GLCMs and SRBMs from his high machan on tibet plateau, followed by low level runs down the river valleys in arunachal.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SivaVijay » 04 Jun 2009 14:03

western air command revived two airfields, Daulat Beg Oldi and Chushul


Is Daulat Beg Oldi an airstrip or airfield...like how good it is in infra to support birds like SU 30 MKI or MMRCA.....

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby k prasad » 04 Jun 2009 16:06

SivaVijay wrote:
western air command revived two airfields, Daulat Beg Oldi and Chushul


Is Daulat Beg Oldi an airstrip or airfield...like how good it is in infra to support birds like SU 30 MKI or MMRCA.....


Two words - IT CANT!!!

And DBO is neither... its an Advance Landing Ground. That means that it cannot base any aircraft, nor can it land aircraft that need prepared concrete runways.... so except for Helos and An-32s, I doubt there is much else that DBO can land.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 04 Jun 2009 16:47

[quote="Nihat" The article also says that there are currently 5 active squadrons of MKI based in Pune and Barailley with the 5th one still being raised , once again confirms around 80-100 MKI in our fleet.

Which 5 sqds have SU 30MKI ? Where are they based ?

K[/quote]


No.8 - Barailley

No. 20 - Pune

No.24 - Barailley

No.30 - Pune

No. 31 - Unknown (still being raised)

from these , squadron each from Barailley and Pune will be shuttled out to air bases in Tezpur and Chahuba according to the article.[/quote]

AFAIK.
Sqdn 20, Sqdn 24 and Sqdn 30 are formed and Sqdn 8 is still under formation. Sqdn 30 is shifting to Tezpur. Sqdn 20 & Sqdn 24 are at Pune / Bareilly. I do not know anything about Sqdn 31.

K

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 04 Jun 2009 16:49

rohitvats wrote:
interesting. chabua is a mil airbase near dibrugarh I think.


Bang of target,saar.....enroute to Tinsukhia from Dibrugargh...the base is host to fighter sqn (Mig-21 & Mig-27, either both or one of them).....interestingly, there is a civilian airport prior to Chabua called Mohanbari which also has helicopter units (Mi-17) next to it....IAs 2 Moutain Div is also in the area...the place is called Dinjan and is off the Chabua - Tinsukhia road....It was great pleasure and real thrill to see and hear swing wing fithers (i saw MiG-27s) fly low over the tea gardens and doing the things fighters jocks do....... :D

Added Later: The other big base is Jorhat which has the An-32 Sqn and is around 6hrs drive prior to Dibrugargh....

Just use the geotools on Wikimapia and map a 500kms radii..... :lol:


Mohanbari also has AN 32s

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Vick » 05 Jun 2009 08:04

Does the MKI have MAWS? If not, how will the MKI driver know if an LPI radar has cued SAM/AAM towards it?
Added later: Even if not LPI, how will the MKI driver know missile(s) are on the way?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 06 Jun 2009 15:49

Bang of target,saar.....enroute to Tinsukhia from Dibrugargh...the base is host to fighter sqn (Mig-21 & Mig-27, either both or one of them).....interestingly, there is a civilian airport prior to Chabua called Mohanbari which also has helicopter units (Mi-17) next to it....IAs 2 Moutain Div is also in the area...the place is called Dinjan and is off the Chabua - Tinsukhia road....It was great pleasure and real thrill to see and hear swing wing fithers (i saw MiG-27s) fly low over the tea gardens and doing the things fighters jocks do.......


i was very small but still remember being evacuated out of chabua airfield in RAF dakota during 1962 in the last days of chinese attack -while on the air heard china have declared unilateral ceasefire - it was a tragic history day for indian armed forces .was staying in Digboi those days and still remember the first L 40 radar controlled antiaircraft guns being placed around the refinery .Mohanbari airport is now called dibrugarh airport . In the evening it was compulsory for all men to undergo rifle training with 0.303 (not me ofcourse me still wearing half pants and in class 3 ).our school was on the road leading to arunachal/nefa front and no one really listened to teachers as we ran out every time a military convoy with guns and old type tanks rumbles past .Wsa too young to notice covered trucks coming back with woden crates.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 Jun 2009 16:07

well well lucky you - my father and uncles had to come by truck from tezpur to guwahati.
and then listen on AIR to the esteemed J.Nehru bid a sad little goodbye to his NE citizens.
while pleading for support from US/UK and denying the IAF any offensive role.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Jagan » 06 Jun 2009 19:28

Shankar wrote:
Bang of target,saar.....enroute to Tinsukhia from Dibrugargh...the base is host to fighter sqn (Mig-21 & Mig-27, either both or one of them).....interestingly, there is a civilian airport prior to Chabua called Mohanbari which also has helicopter units (Mi-17) next to it....IAs 2 Moutain Div is also in the area...the place is called Dinjan and is off the Chabua - Tinsukhia road....It was great pleasure and real thrill to see and hear swing wing fithers (i saw MiG-27s) fly low over the tea gardens and doing the things fighters jocks do.......


i was very small but still remember being evacuated out of chabua airfield in RAF dakota during 1962 in the last days of chinese attack -while on the air heard china have declared unilateral ceasefire - it was a tragic history day for indian armed forces .was staying in Digboi those days and still remember the first L 40 radar controlled antiaircraft guns being placed around the refinery .Mohanbari airport is now called dibrugarh airport . In the evening it was compulsory for all men to undergo rifle training with 0.303 (not me ofcourse me still wearing half pants and in class 3 ).our school was on the road leading to arunachal/nefa front and no one really listened to teachers as we ran out every time a military convoy with guns and old type tanks rumbles past .Wsa too young to notice covered trucks coming back with woden crates.


Shankar, There were no RAF dakotas - it was probably an IAF dak or a Kalinga airways Dak. but you are spot on about the compulsory rifle training for students. my uncle (who lived in bihar) was put in the NCC compulsorily in and he hated every moment of it.
:D

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 07 Jun 2009 09:54

Vick wrote:Does the MKI have MAWS? If not, how will the MKI driver know if an LPI radar has cued SAM/AAM towards it?
Added later: Even if not LPI, how will the MKI driver know missile(s) are on the way?


Yes on the MAWS - S.African firm Avitronics iirc.

CM.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Jun 2009 10:07

MAW-300 missile approach warning sensor (MAWS), RWS-50 RWR and laser warning sensor (LWS) from SAAB AVITRONICS ? like MKM ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 07 Jun 2009 10:53

Re MKI MAWS/ELS -

I think there was a discussion here some time ago where JC had pointed in this direction. the RWR is Indian (tarang). If not, probly the EADS solution may be used to replace the current situation.

As far as Vick's orginal question goes, the MKI will know about the emitting radar through the HADF (Siva?), was supposed to do the job on locating ground based radars @ 200 odd km and cue the KH-31s accordingly.

CM.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Jun 2009 12:02

btw Avitronics has some contract for the integrated defensive suite of Dhruv.
the EADS kit now fully tested is also going into Dhruv. not sure who is supply what pieces of the puzzle.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Vick » 08 Jun 2009 00:19

Cain Marko wrote:Yes on the MAWS - S.African firm Avitronics iirc.

MAWS have distinctive external appearance on aircraft. They look like little EO cameras on circular blisters. I have looked at many MKI pics and did not notice them on any of them. Will the MAWS be on the MkIIIs and retro'd onto the MkI and MKII?

AFAIK, the AN/AAR-60 is meant for helos and large aircraft only, not fighters.

RWR only gives half the picture: It only alerts the pilot to possible radar lock or scan. How will the pilot know the missiles are on the way without a MAWS? Also, without MAWS, what triggers the electronic and physical countermeasures?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 08 Jun 2009 02:37

You are right about the external appearance, it is very evident on the MKM. So, I guess you could assume a no for the MAWS on the MKI. I stand corrected unless there is something that we are missing. Perhaps GJ can provide some input. I know that there was some south african component on the MKI (HUMS?) and confused it with the MAWS.

As far as warning goes, the moment an ARH seeker goes active, the RWR should pick it up. That should be the cue for countermeasures and evasive manouvers. JMT, gurus can clarify.


CM.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 08 Jun 2009 08:55

I read a book by an American WW-II transport pilot who 'flew the hump'. The Himalayas essentially present a steep wall that requires a lot of extra power to surmount. The pilot described how they would have to corkscrew upwards to get over the ranges.

On the other hand, the logistics demands of supplying China ment that there are a lot of fairly well developed air fields in that area - Chabua, Jorhat and Tezpur among them.

What this means in terms of IAF combat power is that with the given IAF inventory, the air power capabilities in that region were rather inadequate, especially in terms of ability to deliver ordnance. As Vivek mentions, even air to air combat would suffer reduced capability because of terrain.

The induction of air to air refuelling was the first step in addressing the terrain imposed limitations. The introduction of high capability SU30MKIs is another big step.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jun 2009 10:57

From Ramana's post above
The Sukhoi base in Tezpur will be raised over two months. The chief of the eastern air command, Air Marshal S.K. Bhan, will preside over a simple ceremony to welcome the four Sukhois that will fly out from their original home in Lohegaon, Pune. Pune currently has three squadrons of the Sukhoi one of which is moving to Tezpur. Two squadrons are based in Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh.


So that means there are 5 sqaudrons of SU-30's. 55 applies only for completly built Russian aircraft.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby nikhil_p » 08 Jun 2009 21:00

Post subject: Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

parshuram wrote:
Sir i guess You are putting it for a commercial airliner speed , i guess even they are faster . I guess If I am Not wrong MKI can shoot up to Mach 2+ and that will t take 2 hours to cross 1200 Km



Mihir.D wrote:
Mach 2 is approx. 2200 km per hour , that would be approx. 1 hr for 1200 kms.


Su 30 doesn't supercruise, not with external payload.
parshuram wrote:Sir i guess You are putting it for a commercial airliner speed , i guess even they are faster . I guess If I am Not wrong MKI can shoot up to Mach 2+ and that will t take 2 hours to cross 1200 Km


Mihir.D wrote:Mach 2 is approx. 2200 km per hour , that would be approx. 1 hr for 1200 kms.


Su 30 doesn't supercruise, not with external payload.



One of the Squadrons of Rambha in Pune was as a replacement of the Jaguar maritime attack squadron. The Flying time from roll to reaching target area for the Su is better than the Jag. Also can carry missiles which have similar/greater range than the Sea Eagle that the Jag used to carry. Also range without external tanks is more than range of jag's with tanks.

A friend who works on an Offshore rig has often said that Rambha's are often seen overflying the rig's.
Another important role of the squadrons in Pune is to protect Mumbai (economic capital, BARC) from attack.

A flight of Rambha's based in Pune can also provide defensive/ offensive cover to Gujarat, and Rajasthan forward sectors due to their exceptional range and loiter time. They can fly close to Mach speed and still reach these sectors in less than an hour with full load and remain on station providing CAP for a few hours.
Lohegaon AFB also provides with a strategic advantage of geographical defence due to distance and presence o hilly terrain which makes it difficult for land hugging cruise missiles to attack at will. The squadrons form an effective second barrier to the defence ORBAT of the forward airbases.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 13 Jun 2009 01:24

Does anyone know if India has any future plans of reducing the RCS on the SU-30MKI? New Ram coating?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Shameek » 13 Jun 2009 04:20

^^ Even if that were the case it may not be made public information.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 14 Jun 2009 07:38


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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 15 Jun 2009 17:09

SU-30 aircraft inducted at Air Force Station Tezpur
The Su-30 aircraft was formally inducted at Air Force Station Tezpur today in a symbolic ceremony presided over by the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Air Command, Air Marshal SK Bhan PVSM AVSM VM. Air Commodore TK Nair, Air Officer Commanding, Air Force Station Tezpur and other senior Air Force officers, Army officers and civil dignitaries were also present on the rain soaked Tezpur airfield on the occasion.

Tezpur airfield was constructed by the British Royal Indian Air Force in 1942, during Second World War. It subsequently developed into a full fledged Air Force base in the year 1959. It lies between Bhutan, Tibet, China, Myanmar and Bangladesh. Ever since its inception, it has been one of the most active bases in North-East from where a variety of fixed and rotary wing aircraft have been operating.

The first aircraft that flew from this base were Vampires and Toofanis. 101 Reconnaissance Squadron with Vampire aircraft and 4 Squadron with Toofanis were the first Squadrons to be located at this base. Subsequently came 29 Sqn (Toofani), 37 Sqn (Hunter), 4 Sqn (MiG-21), 8 Sqn (MiG-21) 28 Sqn (MiG-21), 24 Sqn (Gnats), 110 HU (Mi-4 helicopters), 30 Sqn (MiG-21), MOFTU (MiG Operational Flying Training Unit) with MiG-21s and 115 HU (Cheetah / Chetak helicopters). For the last 25 years this base had been home to the MiG-21 fleet which was used extensively to train rookie pilots for the Indian Air Force, most of whom fondly remember their days spent in Tezpur. In Sep 2007, fighter operations were discontinued at the base to facilitate extensive runway repairs and extension. The work having been completed, the station has formally inducted its first SU-30 MKI aircraft.

The SU-30 MKI aircraft is a twin cockpit multi- role all-weather, air superiority fighter with air – to – air refueling capability. The aircraft, now being manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (Nasik), was originally designed and developed in Russia. The Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft was inducted into the Indian Air Force in 1997 and since then, the aircraft has been upgraded to suit IAF requirements.

The civil air operations that were discontinued in 2007, will resume soon enabling the civil population of this region to travel to other regions of the country by air.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 15 Jun 2009 20:45

arm charing to have the reduced rcs for rambha is well wikiied. its a boost to local industry as well by having many composites and mems technology integrated skins. besides, there is also big buzzz happening with aesa radar for these rambhas. tezpur and north-east bound enemies must fear all these a lot. its good that media is kept out.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 16 Jun 2009 01:48

arm charing to have the reduced rcs for rambha is well wikiied

I don't understand what this means? So there are plans to reduce the RCS of the MKI right? Do you know what the RCS would be reduced to? If it can be close to the F-16 which i think is 1m2 it would be a big improvement compared to what it currently is.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby JaiS » 16 Jun 2009 05:47



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