Su-30: News and Discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1644
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Sid » 20 Apr 2010 21:36

Su-30 MKI falls from the assembly jig in Nasik; HAL says 'all is well' & terms incident as 'minor'

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2010/04/su-30-mki-falls-from-assembly-jig-hal.html

A Su-30 MKI aircraft that was being assembled at HAL’s Nasik division has reportedly fallen from a ‘certain height,’ causing damage to the body. Though the extent of the damage is not yet known, insiders have confirmed to tarmak007 that an ‘unfortunate accident’ had happened in the first week of April, 2010. Though HAL managed to keep the matter under wraps for more than two weeks, the details slowly started emerging out, with the first sketchy report appearing in a Marathi daily in Nasik.

PHASE-III AIRCRAFT: According to insiders the incident happened when the Su-30 MKI aircraft, part of the Phase-III schedule, was being moved from one jig to another. Fortunately, no employees were injured as the number of people at the assembly unit was less at the time of the fall.

Though unconfirmed sources claimed that the Sukhoi fell from a height of 20-feet, HAL officials who spoke to tarmak007 on condition of anonymity said that the whole incident was ‘really minor’ and not worth to be blown out of proportion. “We accept that there was an incident and the aircraft fell from just 3 feet and not 20 feet. No one was injured. There was no avionics on board, nor any power plant,” sources said.

FAULTY SLING IS VILLAIN: It is learnt that HAL was quick to set-up an investigation team into the incident and found that the Su-30 MKI fell due to a faulty sling design. The aircraft’s fuselage is said to have come from Russia and only an ‘empty aluminum shell’ was being assembled at the time of the incident. “The aircraft was to go for equipping. We were working on the wings of the aircraft which were to be attached to the fuselage. We have replaced the sling and the aircraft will be retrieved in the next 10 days. We are also planning to change the entire design of the sling,” sources said.

Sources had told tarmak007 that close to 50-60 % of work on the aircraft was over and some trolley rods had pierced into the body after the fall. However, HAL officials rejected this bit of information by saying that damage to the body was minimal and still lot of integration work was left behind as the aircraft was scheduled to be delivered only next year.

HAL’s BEST DIVISON: Interestingly, Nasik Division is HAL’s main bread winner in terms of profits, thanks to the Su-30 MKI program, which will run through the next couple of years following the compressed Su-30 delivery schedule to IAF. Nasik contributed Rs 5,500 crores in the last fiscal (close to 47% of the company’s total sales turn over), without which HAL’s final FY figures would have told a completely different story. “We have ensured that everything is safe and have assured various employee representatives that the incident of this sort would not happen, nullifying their fear of fatal incidents at the assembly hangars. The Su-30 MKI program is on track and we shall work hard to meet our targets,” sources said.

MD (MiG) P.V. Deshmukh, who has been credited with inspiring the work force through a series of proactive steps, could not be contacted despite tarmak007’s best efforts, as he was traveling.
With sharp media focus slowly falling on the company following tremors being reported form within – be it at the production, exports and HR fronts -- it will be safe for HAL to put in some fire-fighting tools quickly to avoid such incidents being 'blown out of proportion’ for want of authenticate information on time. HAL could borrow a leaf from ISRO in this regard.
A stitch in time saves nine.

Samay
BRFite
Posts: 1143
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 02:35
Location: India

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 20 Apr 2010 23:16

Question for gurus,
are there any plans to equip MKI with AESA radar(Irbis) in its MK 3 version ??

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7420
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 20 Apr 2010 23:18

Samay wrote:Question for gurus,
are there any plans to equip MKI with AESA radar(Irbis) in its MK 3 version ??


Irbis is a PESA radar.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 22 Apr 2010 08:15

India to arm 40 Russian-built fighters with BrahMos missiles

The Indian Air Force will arm 40 Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighters with BrahMos missiles, the head of BrahMos Aerospace said on Wednesday.

In an interview with RIA Novosti at the Defense Services Asia (DSA)-2010 exhibition, Sivathanu Pillai said that would make India's fleet of Russian-built fighters "absolutely unique" in firepower.

He said the first tests of BrahMos air-launched missiles were set for 2011, while the first fighter test flights with missiles on board are scheduled for late 2012.


Is this 40 MKI the new one under nego from Russia ? Considering the strengthening needed and changes required , it would make sense they will do this modification on new built aircraft.. JMT

shukla
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Location: Land of Oz!

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 22 Apr 2010 18:18

Austin wrote:Is this 40 MKI the new one under nego from Russia ? Considering the strengthening needed and changes required , it would make sense they will do this modification on new built aircraft.. JMT


makes sense.. in which case it would mean retro-fitting hasn't quite worked out.. pity if thats the case.. (though its all speculation at this point)

b_patel
BRFite
Posts: 150
Joined: 22 Feb 2009 04:08

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 28 Apr 2010 02:57

Question for gurus,
are there any plans to equip MKI with AESA radar(Irbis) in its MK 3 version ??

No, the MKI currently doesn't have the power to exploit the Irbis to its full potential. So it worthless to upgrade it. The plan is to upgrade it with a BARS AESA, which is the most logical solution.

makes sense.. in which case it would mean retro-fitting hasn't quite worked out.. pity if thats the case.. (though its all speculation at this point)

I don't think that's the case. Its easier to make the changes to the new MKI from Russia (they should be the MLU MKI's anyway) then the ones HAL is building. If they had to modify the 40 MKI it would take them longer. They also would then have to upgrade them again (AESA, new equipment, engines etc). The flight tests & modification to the missile are being done in Russia so it makes sense for IRKUT/KNAPPO (i don't know whose manufacturing them) to do it. HAL is busy as it is they don't need another project to undertake.

VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2293
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 28 Apr 2010 05:21

India arms jets with BrahMos missiles

The first test of BrahMos air-launched missiles is scheduled for 2011 with the first test flights mounted with the missiles are to take place a year later.

Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 05 May 2010 16:54

Flight Trials Underway For Sukhoi Displays
Aviation Week
Flight Trials Underway For Sukhoi Displays
May 4, 2010
By Neelam Mathews mathews.neelam@gmail.com
NEW DELHI

Ongoing flight trials of new Colored Multifunctional Displays (CMFDs) for Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters are expected to be over by mid-May.

The CMFDs were produced by Samtel HAL Display Systems. They were cleared for flight testing by the Regional Center for Military Airworthiness in 2008 and flights began in April of this year.

Ground testing and ten sorties — during the day and night — have been carried out. LDP (Laser Designated Pod) and Gunfire Testing is Complete.

This is the first time Indian-made MFDs are being integrated on Su-30 MKI aircraft in India.

“Integration of these indigenously developed MFDs on Su-30MKI aircraft is in line with the thrust by the [Indian defense ministry] on manufacturing indigenous products for defense requirements,” says Puneet Kaura, executive director of Samtel Display Systems.

The MFDs will be integrated on
Block III,
Block IV
and the upcoming Block V Aircraft.
Integration with 53 Block III aircraft will end by next year,
integration on 47 Block IV aircraft will be complete by 2012,
and 42 Block V aircraft will be done by 2013.

Around 350 Su-30MKI Aircraft are Ultimately Required by the Indian Air Force. The total order has a potential value of $56 million over the next few years.

Hun Chak de Phatte :D

biswas
BRFite
Posts: 503
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 20:42
Location: Ozzieland

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby biswas » 05 May 2010 17:02

Is that number really valid?

Doubt it really.

chiru
BRFite
Posts: 203
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 12:46
Location: mahishooru

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby chiru » 05 May 2010 20:29

mullas whats a block V mki ??? will it be the one with the aesa and other electronic stuff 8)

Brahmananda
BRFite
Posts: 174
Joined: 21 Mar 2010 22:09

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 05 May 2010 21:15

350, if that number is true, well thats a good number. dont think any of the blocks will have AESA and other upgrades, these upgrades will go on MLU aircraft later on i think.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 00:27

Brahmananda wrote:350, if that number is true, well thats a good number. dont think any of the blocks will have AESA and other upgrades, these upgrades will go on MLU aircraft later on i think.



Parhaps that is a mistake...It will never be greater than 280;

Its either a mistake of the reporter or a typing mistake.

We should not procure Su-30MKI in that large number; better go for Su-35MKI - That will give us an edge parallel to MRCA. 8)

chiru
BRFite
Posts: 203
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 12:46
Location: mahishooru

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby chiru » 06 May 2010 01:52

Brahmananda wrote:350, if that number is true, well thats a good number. dont think any of the blocks will have AESA and other upgrades, these upgrades will go on MLU aircraft later on i think.


block V may be the ones capable of carying 3 brahmos coz there will only be 42 block V and recent reports of additional birds seem to coincide with this report ... may be they will come with the irbis-e :twisted: if it does its gonna be one hell of a baby

Shameek
BRFite
Posts: 781
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 20:44
Location: Ionosphere

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Shameek » 06 May 2010 02:17

palash_kol wrote:We should not procure Su-30MKI in that large number; better go for Su-35MKI - That will give us an edge parallel to MRCA.


There is no Su-35 MKI. Considering the PAK-FA is coming there is probably no need for one either. And where does the current MKI lack compared to the MRCA contenders?

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 10:04

Shameek wrote:
palash_kol wrote:We should not procure Su-30MKI in that large number; better go for Su-35MKI - That will give us an edge parallel to MRCA.


There is no Su-35 MKI. Considering the PAK-FA is coming there is probably no need for one either. And where does the current MKI lack compared to the MRCA contenders?



I know there is no Su-35MKI.... But we can get it by MKIzing the Su-35BM. :) Not very much necessary, but it has lesser RCS, wingtip jammer, better electronic-warfare system and many more 20% new features. We can order 70-80 of these fighter aircraft(SU-35Bm with MKIzing). With upgradation SU-30MKI can never be equal or much capable than SU-35 unless there is some major major upgradation. :((

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 May 2010 11:06

imo better than that is pay Salyut-Saturn for a AL31FP-eco2 which increase fuel efficiency and also thrust by 15% and use that to reengine the entire fleet during MLU. work on reducing the rear side IR signature by incorporating bleed air ducts or whatever. install a anti-radar screen inside the engine inlets. go after such low hanging fruit for the MLU. rafael wingtip towed decoy can be installed on MKI too. get new version of wvr (K-74) and ramjet version of addr working. a new OLS-50 ported from pakfa.

main advantage of Su35BM over MKI is its astonishing T:W ratio which is helped by being a single seater and meatier engines. the eco2 could close that gap.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 12:06

Singha wrote:imo better than that is pay Salyut-Saturn for a AL31FP-eco2 which increase fuel efficiency and also thrust by 15% and use that to reengine the entire fleet during MLU. work on reducing the rear side IR signature by incorporating bleed air ducts or whatever. install a anti-radar screen inside the engine inlets. go after such low hanging fruit for the MLU. rafael wingtip towed decoy can be installed on MKI too. get new version of wvr (K-74) and ramjet version of addr working. a new OLS-50 ported from pakfa.

main advantage of Su35BM over MKI is its astonishing T:W ratio which is helped by being a single seater and meatier engines. the eco2 could close that gap.


Very very well said.

We should stop procuring SU-30MKI. 280 is enough - we dont need more. Otherwise its fate will be like Mig-21 that we procured in large numbers between 1960 - 1980. Rather go for SU-35BM (abount 60-80 aircrafts) including technology trasfer. It will help us to upgrade its SU-30MKI domestically and also in other side too. 8) :D

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1176
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby RKumar » 06 May 2010 13:02

palash_kol wrote:We should stop procuring SU-30MKI. 280 is enough - we dont need more. Otherwise its fate will be like Mig-21 that we procured in large numbers between 1960 - 1980. Rather go for SU-35BM (abount 60-80 aircrafts) including technology trasfer. It will help us to upgrade its SU-30MKI domestically and also in other side too. 8) :D


No, we should not add another type to IAF's inventory. IAF is already running a circus show. IAF should try to keep its fleet manageable. We should reduce the number of types.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 13:34

RKumar wrote:No, we should not add another type to IAF's inventory. IAF is already running a circus show. IAF should try to keep its fleet manageable. We should reduce the number of types.


Thats why I am saying S-35BM has 80% commonality with SU-30MKI. This is not entirely new type of aircraft. Its a better version of the existing aircraft. You can watch the video of SU-35BM. I assure you will enjoy the video.

If you didnt want any circus(as you think) any more then you would have tell IAF not to include MIG-35 in MRCA race too. Though I dont want MIG-35 win MRCA race. If I would have the authority, I would first forbid IAF not to include MIG-35 in the MRCA race.

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1176
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby RKumar » 06 May 2010 14:11

palash_kol wrote:Thats why I am saying S-35BM has 80% commonality with SU-30MKI. This is not entirely new type of aircraft. Its a better version of the existing aircraft. You can watch the video of SU-35BM. I assure you will enjoy the video.

If you didnt want any circus(as you think) any more then you would have tell IAF not to include MIG-35 in MRCA race too. Though I dont want MIG-35 win MRCA race. If I would have the authority, I would first forbid IAF not to include MIG-35 in the MRCA race.


Kindly answer why should not buy 126 planes as part of MRCA winner in stead of abount 60-80 aircrafts as you have suggested? :shock:

On top of that you are contradicting yourself, you are impressed with the plane and willing to buy it some numbers but don't want in MRCA. :evil: :evil:

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 14:50

RKumar wrote:Kindly answer why should not buy 126 planes as part of MRCA winner in stead of abount 60-80 aircrafts as you have suggested? :shock:


That process will take a path itself. Whatever IAF will procure will not affect that process. We need MRCA for getting complete touch with western high-end technologies.

can you tell me why IAF is going to order more SU-MKIs when we have other option??
This decision will sink IAF in deep sea. What do you think - 280 is enough or not? What I said if IAF think of getting more SU-30MKIs, then it will be better to go for SU-35BM and the MKIzing it will give definitely benefit us. We can modify our SU-30MKI domestically also.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 15:00

palash_kol wrote:If you didnt want any circus(as you think) any more then you would have tell IAF not to include MIG-35 in MRCA race too. Though I dont want MIG-35 win MRCA race. If I would have the authority, I would first forbid IAF not to include MIG-35 in the MRCA race.


RKumar wrote:On top of that you are contradicting yourself, you are impressed with the plane and willing to buy it some numbers but don't want in MRCA. :evil: :evil:


How did you understand that I am contradicting myself? Here is my post....Tell me what did you get from my post? Please read that carefully again again and understand the fact.

chiru
BRFite
Posts: 203
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 12:46
Location: mahishooru

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby chiru » 06 May 2010 15:33

can you tell me why IAF is going to order more SU-MKIs when we have other option??


so what is the other option please dont be speculative and it does not matter what u believe or think stop behaving like you are just out of defence ,pk and you DONT have the authority to forbid any contender just because you liked the su-35s video :mrgreen:

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 16:02

chiru wrote:so what is the other option please dont be speculative and it does not matter what u believe or think stop behaving like you are just out of defence ,pk and you DONT have the authority to forbid any contender just because you liked the su-35s video :mrgreen:


Where did come defence.pk from? Dont ever try to mislead the fact using some wrong idea. I used to participate in indiandefenceforum.com once. Now you got where I come from?

What I said if two aircrafts are identical in design, do you think there is no need of the new one?

If Mig-35 can participate in the MRCA competition, why cant IAF choose SU-35 though we already have SU-30MKI? SU-35BM is way better than MIG-35 in term of everything. You should not be lough in that way if IAF choose SU-35BM near future. :roll: Keep laughing...participate this forum as if you come here for time pass and place fake posts(which is not necessary).

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1176
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby RKumar » 06 May 2010 16:31

palash_kol wrote:That process will take a path itself. Whatever IAF will procure will not affect that process. We need MRCA for getting complete touch with western high-end technologies.

can you tell me why IAF is going to order more SU-MKIs when we have other option??
This decision will sink IAF in deep sea. What do you think - 280 is enough or not? What I said if IAF think of getting more SU-30MKIs, then it will be better to go for SU-35BM and the MKIzing it will give definitely benefit us. We can modify our SU-30MKI domestically also.


You have answered your questions yourself. :rotfl: -->process will take a path itself. --> getting more SU-30MKIs.

Please read that carefully again again and understand the fact (contradicting )

f you didnt want any circus(as you think) any more then you would have tell IAF not to include MIG-35 in MRCA race too. Though I dont want MIG-35 win MRCA race. If I would have the authority, I would first forbid IAF not to include MIG-35 in the MRCA race.


Otherwise its fate will be like Mig-21 that we procured in large numbers between 1960 - 1980. Rather go for SU-35BM (abount 60-80 aircrafts) including technology trasfer. It will help us to upgrade its SU-30MKI domestically and also in other side too.


I know there is no Su-35MKI.... But we can get it by MKIzing the Su-35BM. Not very much necessary, but it has lesser RCS, wingtip jammer, better electronic-warfare system and many more 20% new features. We can order 70-80 of these fighter aircraft(SU-35Bm with MKIzing). With upgradation SU-30MKI can never be equal or much capable than SU-35 unless there is some major major upgradation.


So from these ...
1. Buy MIG-35BM (60-70-80) planes, but don't allow it to compete in MRCA (As both are Mig-35 I see more commonality in them then with Su-30).
2. 280 Su-30MKI (aka Mig-21) are more then enough, should buy next type. Mig-21 were back bone of IAF and served us well for 20 year. It only after 20 years, we started having problems that too because of spare parts and break up of USSR. Lack on our part to upgrade or replace them it newer type of plane.
3. Converting Su-35 to MKI standard, I don't know how easy and cost effective it will be.
4. Converting/upgrading Su-30 to Su-35, we can simple forget it.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 16:55

RKumar wrote:You have answered your questions yourself. :rotfl:

I never answered any of my question. I have given some option and asked you to choose. But you never answered and wandering elsewhere to distract from the actual discussion.

RKumar wrote:-->process will take a path itself.

Do you know which process I meant?

RKumar wrote:--> getting more SU-30MKIs.

Ohh...you understood this!!!!

RKumar wrote:1. Buy MIG-35BM (60-70-80) planes, but don't allow it to compete in MRCA (As both are Mig-35 I see more commonality in them then with Su-30).


RKumar...please read all of my posts carefully again and again....Did I say MIG-35BM??

RKumar
BRFite
Posts: 1176
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 12:29
Location: Evolution is invention, explosion is destruction.

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby RKumar » 06 May 2010 17:09

palash_kol wrote:
RKumar wrote:You have answered your questions yourself. :rotfl:

I never answered any of my question. I have given some option and asked you to choose. But you never answered and wandering elsewhere to distract from the actual discussion. And I thought I have replied by selecting your options.

RKumar wrote:-->process will take a path itself.

Do you know which process I meant? Please enlighten this poor mortal living creature, for me it will take long time before a decision is taken on MRCA winner.

RKumar wrote:--> getting more SU-30MKIs.

Ohh...you understood this!!!! Thank God... I understood at least one thing

RKumar wrote:1. Buy MIG-35BM (60-70-80) planes, but don't allow it to compete in MRCA (As both are Mig-35 I see more commonality in them then with Su-30). Where did I say those are same


RKumar...please read all of my posts carefully again and again....Did I say MIG-35BM??


You are Einstein and I am poor living creature... I see there is no discussion and match, moreover it is derailing of this thread... you can post whatever reply you want this is my last reply to you.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 17:23

RKumar wrote:You are Einstein and I am poor living creature... I see there is no discussion and match, moreover it is derailing of this thread... you can post whatever reply you want this is my last reply to you.


I am not Einstein. I am just an ordinary man expressing his opinion.

This is not a discussion- rather is an argument.

Another thing to say... RKumar...we have lot to discuss..my friend. This should not be your last reply. :((

chiru
BRFite
Posts: 203
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 12:46
Location: mahishooru

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby chiru » 06 May 2010 17:49

I am just an ordinary man expressing his opinion.


there is a difference between expressing ones opinion and ranting unnecessarily , and i dont care where you come from
REMEMBER no matter how much you rant here is not gonna affect the selection process anyway so shut it ...sorry if this is a smack on your face

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 18:06

chiru wrote:there is a difference between expressing ones opinion and ranting unnecessarily ,

Chiru...Please stop ranting unnecessarily...
chiru wrote:and i dont care where you come from REMEMBER no matter how much you rant here is not gonna affect the selection process anyway so shut it ...sorry if this is a smack on your face

I dont care what you think..

chiru
BRFite
Posts: 203
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 12:46
Location: mahishooru

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby chiru » 06 May 2010 18:13

Chiru...Please stop ranting unnecessarily...
I dont care what you think..


so saying what you are doing is ranting now :P
and most of the members here dont care wht you think either if you want to increase your post count go to nukkad or tsp thread

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 18:51

chiru wrote:so saying what you are doing is ranting now :P

Are you crazy? Think of what you are doing.. :eek: Isnt that ranting? :)

chiru wrote:and most of the members here dont care wht you think

Dont think of other members. They very well know What I been saying till now.

You are not a politician; so dont try to take other members into your account.

chiru wrote:either if you want to increase your post count go to nukkad or tsp thread

I already said it does not matter what you think. :wink: Rather i think you want to increase your post count. It will matter to you.

calm down...continue the actual discussion and dont attack personally.

Shameek
BRFite
Posts: 781
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 20:44
Location: Ionosphere

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Shameek » 06 May 2010 19:51

Guys, stop this unnecessary argument unless you want Bredators with Hellfires on your tail.

Getting back to the Su-30, like Singha said, it makes more sense to stick with the MKI and ensure the MLU gives it all we want. We went with the Su-30 because we wanted the Su-30 and not the Su 35.
The MRCA episode is a different story which has just become a free for all that keeps going on and on. There is not much point comparing them with the Su-30.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 21:20

Shameek wrote:unless you want Bredators with Hellfires on your tail.

:rotfl:


Is there any news of intregating jammers or electronic warfare system to SU-30MKI? I know that lots of upgradation is coming - but dont know the details. Please if anyone knows, share it with us.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8064
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 06 May 2010 21:39

Palash, I am trying to understand your proposition better though I should say before hand that I dont see much sense in your argument yet! It will be great if you could answer a few basic questions. I hope the answers will make me change sides or convince you to change sides

Are you speaking for inducting the 35-BMs as is? If yes, then first big problem is that IAF seems to like the fighters to have a WSO + pilot config. So none of the pilots+WSO for the Su-30s would be able to switch between the 30s and the 35-BMs. The other case is that pilots from single pilot config upgrade to the 35-BMs. In both case, the commonality factor is lost!

But I see that in your posts you speak of MKI-izing the 35-BMs. So what do you mean by MKI-izing? Mostly, 2-pilots + avionics! I hope you are not speaking of adding the canards to the 35 BMs! In that case why not upgrade the Su-30s according to the Singha's list. For upgraded Su-30s, absolutely nothing in the inventory, logistics, maintenance training has to change, you have a bigger pool of pilots who can fly the same plane. Besides its a very successful plane with the IAF with well establishes flying tactics. If they would like to get the 35s there should be a strong argument in its favour to loose the aforesaid advantage of the Su-30 upgrades. SO what do you see as that advantage?

Besides you keep saying that the number of su-30s are becoming like ones of Mig-21s. Do you believe the problem with the Mig-21s are its numbers in the IAF?!!! If yes could you please justify.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8064
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 06 May 2010 21:47

Shameek wrote:Guys, stop this unnecessary argument unless you want Bredators with Hellfires on your tail.


Absolutely, why not! I agree with what Kartik says. The standard of posts in BRF seems to have gone down in the last 3-4 years. Why don't the seniors pan out messages which are too biased, misinformed, not substantiated, not well thought out, or adds nothing new to the discussion! May be it would be good disciplining for the green horns like me!

P.S. Palash, RKumar, Chiru please dont take it as a personal attack on you as this "unnecessary discussion" was started by you! I am just stating what I felt. Come to think of it, I have joined this "unnecessary discussion. LOL!

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 06 May 2010 23:59

indranilroy wrote:Palash, I am trying to understand your proposition better though I should say before hand that I dont see much sense in your argument yet! It will be great if you could answer a few basic questions. I hope the answers will make me change sides or convince you to change sides

Are you speaking for inducting the 35-BMs as is? If yes, then first big problem is that IAF seems to like the fighters to have a WSO + pilot config. So none of the pilots+WSO for the Su-30s would be able to switch between the 30s and the 35-BMs. The other case is that pilots from single pilot config upgrade to the 35-BMs. In both case, the commonality factor is lost!

But I see that in your posts you speak of MKI-izing the 35-BMs. So what do you mean by MKI-izing? Mostly, 2-pilots + avionics! I hope you are not speaking of adding the canards to the 35 BMs! In that case why not upgrade the Su-30s according to the Singha's list. For upgraded Su-30s, absolutely nothing in the inventory, logistics, maintenance training has to change, you have a bigger pool of pilots who can fly the same plane. Besides its a very successful plane with the IAF with well establishes flying tactics. If they would like to get the 35s there should be a strong argument in its favour to loose the aforesaid advantage of the Su-30 upgrades. SO what do you see as that advantage?

Besides you keep saying that the number of su-30s are becoming like ones of Mig-21s. Do you believe the problem with the Mig-21s are its numbers in the IAF?!!! If yes could you please justify.


I am 99% agree with you. This is the way to answer a simple question. The issues that you have pointed out are the real issues. I am answering only one question:

indranilroy wrote:So what do you mean by MKI-izing?

It means what steps or phases India took to convert a simple SU-27 into SU-30 multirole air-superiority fighter i.e. Indian version SU-30MKI. I am providing few links -
1. Extensive Technical Information about Su-30MKI
2. indian-military.org Review
3. Su-30MKI development
4. Su-30MKI development - Wapedia Review
and many more links are available. Just search for SU-30MKi development phases.

I am passing rest of your questions as complements for now. Because I dont want any more debate contest.

Indranil, I am very glad that I am now a member of Bharat-rakshak for which I been waiting since 2006. Now my wish gets fulfilled. Thank god.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4441
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 07 May 2010 00:49

palash_kol wrote:and many more links are available. Just search for SU-30MKi development phases.

I am passing rest of your questions as complements for now. Because I dont want any more debate contest.

Indranil, I am very glad that I am now a member of Bharat-rakshak for which I been waiting since 2006. Now my wish gets fulfilled. Thank god.


Palash, what you are posting is for SU30-MKI. This is not what members asked for. When you mentioned MKI-zing Su-35BM, you need to put forth your views on what the strengths and weaknesses are for SU35-BM and what all you can improve, and how it will compare with the other MRCA contenders, and the advantages that SU-35BM brings to the table.

Making vague statements about MKI-zing 35BMs is not how BRF operates. Please back up your statement with more content.

palash_kol
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 40
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:07

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby palash_kol » 07 May 2010 01:47

New features of SU-35BM which should be incorporated in the new and upgraded SU-35MKI to make it mean machine.

1. High performance ECM Jammer like KNIRTI SAP-14 Support Jammer ECM on SU-35BM or SU-34 Fullback or AN/ALQ-218 Tactical Jamming Receiver on EA-18G

2. AESA Radar (though not present in SU-35BM as of now..but it will be there pretty soon)

3. Reduction in RCS (Using RAM coating, slight engine inlet chages, etc, etc)

4. Futuristic large MFD (Multi Functional Displays) like F-35 MFDs or SU-35BM MFDs

5. High Performance EW system(Mayavi being developed)

6. Towed Decoy like ALE-55 Fiber-Optic Towed Decoy

Then our very own SU-30MKI will be truly world class. Our enemy will never think of fixing a meeting with it - even F-22 Raptor :D

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8064
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 07 May 2010 03:17

palash_kol wrote:New features of SU-35BM which should be incorporated in the new and upgraded SU-35MKI to make it mean machine.

1. High performance ECM Jammer like KNIRTI SAP-14 Support Jammer ECM on SU-35BM or SU-34 Fullback or AN/ALQ-218 Tactical Jamming Receiver on EA-18G

2. AESA Radar (though not present in SU-35BM as of now..but it will be there pretty soon)

3. Reduction in RCS (Using RAM coating, slight engine inlet chages, etc, etc)

4. Futuristic large MFD (Multi Functional Displays) like F-35 MFDs or SU-35BM MFDs

5. High Performance EW system(Mayavi being developed)

6. Towed Decoy like ALE-55 Fiber-Optic Towed Decoy

Then our very own SU-30MKI will be truly world class. Our enemy will never think of fixing a meeting with it - even F-22 Raptor :D


Palash, I think you are very impressed with the 35-BM. I don't blame you.. It is an exceptional plane in almost all respects. Whether the Raptor should be scared to take it on ... hmmm ... I dont think so. Once in the air, the raptor is difficult to match amongst current planes. But considering that you can buy and maintain 2-3 35-BMs at the price of a single Raptor, we can rephrase your statement as a single raptor would be scared to take on 2-3 35-BMs. In my opinion it would be!

Coming back to the 30MKI versus the 35MKI. As far as I can see the upgraded Su-30MKI and the modified Su-35BM-MKI look very similar. I am almost sure that the Su-30s can take the Saturn 117S/AL-41F1A with minimal/no airframe changes. You might say the Su-35 airframe being stouter and without the canards would be stealthier. But at the same time it's wings are bigger too. So RCS wise the Su-35s might be smaller but not by much.

IAF doesnt seem to go for those upgrades right now and rightly so. IT is qualitatively higher than its chief adversary but lacking serious numbers. So if indeed we are going to get the 350 Su birds, almost any airforce guy would say get the 30s and we shall upgrade them when the need arises!


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests