Su-30: News and Discussion

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Jagan » 10 Oct 2010 21:20


neeraj
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby neeraj » 10 Oct 2010 21:27

^^^^^

Is this a new build. Don't tell me we have 324 birds already :twisted:

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 10 Oct 2010 21:58

shiv wrote:
Brando wrote:Anybody hear any news about an engine upgrade to go along with the radar upgrade ? IMO, it would be much more cheaper to upgrade all the systems at once than to have piecemeal upgrades that would keep the fleet out of commission for a longer period of time.


:D Like extra fries and a coke to go with the order so you don't have to come back?


Funny :)

Brando , IAF has not complained of low thrust on MKI atleast that is something I am not aware of , so an engine change may not be needed considering we are lic manufacture the AL-31FP at HAL.

But if a change is needed then there are option available , they can change the AL-31FP to AL-31FM1 which does need any change in the air intake AL-31F (42 series) M1.

This should add 1T more thrust over 31FP.Currently the Russian Su-27 are being upgraded to SM standard with FM1 engine.

The 117S engine which powers the new Su-35S has a larger dia and hence not compatiable with older Su-30 without making structural changes to air intake.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 10 Oct 2010 23:41

The Current version of the SU-30 MKI Engines are TWEAKED for high altitude
The IAF does not, in any case, have many high-altitude capable combat aircraft in its inventory, except the Sukhoi SU-30 MKIs whose engines have been tweaked for high-altitude takeoffs and landings.

There goes the engine upgrade :wink:

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 11 Oct 2010 00:04

^^Didn't we see pictures of Mig-29s at Leh?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Asit P » 11 Oct 2010 01:28

Brando wrote:Anybody hear any news about an engine upgrade to go along with the radar upgrade ?


As of now I haven't come across any report that talks about a possible engine upgrade in the near future. Won't be shocked if some chanakyan Yindoo has the engine of PAKFA in mind, thereby, reducing the logistical nightmare.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 Oct 2010 04:26

Austin wrote:As per Yefim Gordon latest book Russian Air Power ( and according even RuAF chief ) the Foxhound is being upgraded with radar and missile giving it anti-stealth and anti-low flying cruise missile capability besides other avionics fit and this will keep it operational for the next 15 years.


What will replace the MiG-31?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 11 Oct 2010 06:03

Along with the AESA (zhuk/irbis), IAF should perhaps think about testing the pak-fa conformal ones on the Ramba. Quite useful for mini AWACs integration role along with a bunch of tejas sparrows.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 11 Oct 2010 08:02

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:As per Yefim Gordon latest book Russian Air Power ( and according even RuAF chief ) the Foxhound is being upgraded with radar and missile giving it anti-stealth and anti-low flying cruise missile capability besides other avionics fit and this will keep it operational for the next 15 years.


What will replace the MiG-31?


It too early to talk of Mig-31 replacement they have atleast 15 - 20 years to think it will go through complete structural/engine overhaul with complete avionics and weapons upgrade ( they call that second BM upgrade , 2 prototypes are flying for the upgrade ) which should keep them fighting fit for the next 20 years ( a similar deep upgrade on IAF Mig-29 extends its fighting life by 25 years )

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 11 Oct 2010 12:09

TOI reports..

It's Sukhoi vs Eurofighter as IAF 'takes on' RAF

Top-notch fighters and other aircraft from India and UK will match their combat skills in the `Indra-Dhanush' joint exercise at Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal later this month. While the British Royal Air Force will deploy their spanking new Eurofighter jets for the exercise slated to begin from October 20, the IAF fleet will be led by the `air dominance' Sukhoi-30MKI fighters.

"The exercise will be held in an AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) environment, with air defence being a major thrust area. We will be fielding different types of our fighters," said a senior official. Both the Indian and British forces are also expected to use their mid-air refuelling aircraft, like the IL-78 and VC-10 tankers, during the combat manoeuvres.

"The aim of the joint exercise is to learn from each other and enhance mutual operational understanding. With every exercise, IAF has gained valuable experience and gained respect as a highly-professional and motivated force," the official added.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 11 Oct 2010 14:58

What if,that is after the exercises we find that the Flanker is the equal or better than the Typhoon and available at far lesser cost? Will it then make the IAF plump for even more flankers?
The Typhoon is smaller and has just one pilot but comes in est. at around $100mil (does anyone have the Saudi proce figures?).I'm sure that our Flankers are cheaper and more cost-effective given the inventory we have and are acquiring and infrastructure already set up for manuufacture of Flankers.Adding AESA to the Flankers will make them the most potent 4+++ fighter in existence,barring the F-22.What intrigues me more is to see how the MIG-35 fares against the Typhoon in our evaluation.A Typhoon pilot said at Aero-India that "nothing flies like the MIG-35".Whether the MIG-35 wins or not,it is a better dogfighter with its TVC and also has a Russian AESA radar.Techwise,the Typhoon probably has the best pilot friendly cockpit alkong with the Rafale. This MMRCA contest has given the IAF a great opportunity to fly and evaluate the best of the west and east.

I'm a keen advocate of acquiring a sqd. of MIG-31s.I don't know how many remember the Russian offer to the IAF when we retired our MIG-25s,to replace them with MIG-31s at bargain basement cost! MIG-31s are ideal for dealing with enemy AWACS when equipped with VLR AAMs.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 11 Oct 2010 16:36

sigh


beyond a certain level these exercises are more of procedures and processes than about weapons capabilities

no one is going to expose all their capabilities

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 11 Oct 2010 17:26

Philip wrote:The Typhoon is smaller and has just one pilot but comes in est. at around $100mil (does anyone have the Saudi proce figures?).


4.43billion Pounds for 72 aircrafts..

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=europe

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Pratik_S » 11 Oct 2010 17:49

^^ That means 12.37 billion $ for 126 Tiffy's.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 11 Oct 2010 17:49

What is if it is competitive enough? will you recommend the typhoons? By any means Mig-35 has no chance against the typhoon, even with AESA and OLS where equivalents are available on the typhoons.

It is the question of which side you are in this. But, why on this thread?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 11 Oct 2010 18:40

Do keep in mind that the tender is not just an A-A Comparison of fighters. These planes have to be above average Ground Strikers as well. Not just interms of payload but also EW systems and Aerodynamics to get that aspect of the job done. In that sense the Typhoon is weaker than the other MRCA contenders (but better than the Mig-35) in the A-G role.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Dmurphy » 11 Oct 2010 18:57

smpratik wrote:^^ That means 12.37 billion $ for 126 Tiffy's.
This number's likely to swell to accomodate the ToT et al. Of course, the off sets should take care of that.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Oct 2010 19:30

is the typhoon pirate IRST fully qualified or still a 'work in progress' ? images indicate the rafale does not have a inbuilt IRST and none are planned. F16-block60 has a fixed chin pylon IRST I believe and F-18 was planning a centerline IRST pod clipped to fore end of drop tank...a modified F-14D bombcat type installation?

that would leave typhoon on par with flanker family in having a irst not creating extra drag or eating up pylons.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 11 Oct 2010 20:03

^^The Rafale has Optronique Secteur Frontal (OSF), developed by Thales. As per Internet warriors, the OSF doesn't compare well with modern IRSTs like PIRATE and the new Russkie ones.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Oct 2010 21:53

the french CAG has criticized the rafale rbe2 for lack of range and OSF as obsolescent...
http://www.electronicaviation.com/aircr ... Rafale/819

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 20 Oct 2010 17:54

New Parallel Runway At Air Force Station Gwalior, Su-30s Added To Base
Livefist
Image
History was created at Air Force Station Gwalior with the inauguration of a new runway by Air Marshal GS Kochar AVSM VM, Air Officer Commanding in Chief of the Central Air Command along with Mrs Munmun Kochar, President AFWWA (R).

The Gwalior Air Base of the Indian Air Force now has a unique distinction of being the only operational base in Indian Air Force with Two Operational Parallel Runways and Operating Top of the Line Fighters.

The Ceremony was also Marked by the Induction of Sukhoi-30 MKI at Air Force Station Gwalior.

During the ceremony, Air Commodore Neeraj Yadav VM VSM, Air Officer Commanding Air Force Station Gwalior and other senior Air Force officials of the air base were also present. A magnificent fly past by three Sukhoi- 30 MKI aircraft in VIC formation was organized to mark this historic occasion.

These Aircraft Belonging to Tactics and Air Combat Development Establishment took off from the Bareilly air base and were the first aircraft to land on the newly constructed runway.

The chief guest also received salute from Su-30 MKI, Mirage-2000 and MiG-21 Bison aircraft as they taxied past the dais, symbolising the operationalisation of the new Runway with all types of aircraft based at Gwalior.

DPR-IAF

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Oct 2010 20:03

hopefully the first of many as we begin the long climb to "nato std infra" as the old NATO wears out and falls away....the new must replace the old in nature's ceaseless dog eat dog cycle...

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 20 Oct 2010 20:34

One of those eternal mysteries I never get answers

why do stuff like this and new lighting, comm, radar aids which totally would come to a couple of thousand crores were never done till now while we buy aircraft costing many times more :(

Add simulators in the same vein


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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Oct 2010 21:08

Surya, here
http://frontierindia.net/selex-sistemi- ... -air-force

SELEX Sistemi Integrati and BEL to supply air traffic control systems to the Indian Air Force
By Frontier India | December 21st, 2007 | Category: Indian Air Force News | No Comments »

SELEX Sistemi Integrati, a Finmeccanica company, signed a contract with the Indian company BEL – Bharat Electronics Limited – to supply air traffic control systems to the Indian Air Force.

The contract, whose value is 52 million Euros, will grant the delivery of thirteen ATCR33 S primary radars, thirteen SIR S secondary radars, and 52 consoles CDS 2000 for the equipment of the control centres. The radar systems will be delivered within three years, starting from the contract signature.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 21 Oct 2010 11:59

Indian-Made MFD System Cleared For Su-30MKI
Aviation Week
Indian-Made MFD System Cleared For Su-30MKI
Oct 20, 2010

By Anantha Krishnan M.
BENGALURU, India

The first homegrown multi-functional display (MFD) system under series production (SP) from Samtel-HAL Display Systems (SHDS) of India is nearly completed.

The homegrown MFDs are being manufactured for the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fighter under SHDS, a joint venture firm. Samtel has a 60% stake in the joint venture, formed in 2006, while HAL holds 40%.

Puneet Kaura, executive director for Samtel Display Systems Ltd., tells AVIATION WEEK that the firm has already supplied five shipsets of MFDs under limited series production (LSP) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) to conduct flight trials in association with the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment, Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification, and HAL.

“Close to 30 flight trials were done and the first MFD under SP will be ready in the next two days, Puneet says. “We are now hopeful of making profits for our [joint venture] with HAL. This is a significant [combined effort] by scientists and engineers from [the Defense Research Development Organization], Samtel and HAL.”

Samtel MFDs will replace the ones made by Thales, bringing down the cost significantly. “The IAF is in need [of] MFDs in huge numbers for Su-30MKIs and the entire project cost is pegged at around Rs 250 crore [$56 million],” an industry source says. “With the number of Su-30MKIs set to go up in the IAF fleet, the demand for MFDs too will increase.” Interestingly, Samtel has a separate joint venture with Thales.

“We will have to produce five shipsets every month and we hope to meet the requirement in the next five years. The MFDs were cleared for series production two weeks back,” Puneet says.

Samtel now hopes to hit the International Market with these MFDs and Talks are in Advanced Stages with some Companies.
“Our Technology is Ready and we are Confident of Equipping the same with Any Platforms in the World.
The Potential is Endless and We have All Capabilities of Ruggedizing it to Any Needs/Environments,” Puneet says.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 21 Oct 2010 12:36



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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby nrshah » 21 Oct 2010 14:12



This hints of nuke role taken by MKIs in addition to Mirages...Gwalior has always been in center of Indian nuke delivery mechanism with Mirages and Agni squadrons and regiments based there...

Now with addition of MKI, looks load will be shared with MKI...

Co incidentally, SFC has asked for 40 jets for itself and again co incidentally, we ordered 40 MKI in 2007....

Could be IAF will have only 230 MKI at its disposal with additional 40 being dedicated to SFC

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 21 Oct 2010 14:27


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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 21 Oct 2010 16:10

The Gwalior Sukhoi-30 MKIs are of the "Tactics and Air Combat Development Establishment" TACDE.

A Magnificent Fly past by Three Sukhoi- 30 MKI aircraft in VIC formation was organized to mark this historic occasion.

These Aircraft Belonging to Tactics and Air Combat Development Establishment took off from the Bareilly air base and were the first aircraft to land on the newly constructed runway.
Source / Link

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 21 Oct 2010 16:29

This hints of nuke role taken by MKIs in addition to Mirages...Gwalior has always been in center of Indian nuke delivery mechanism with Mirages and Agni squadrons and regiments based there...


These are the permanent additions to TACDE's quota

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 21 Oct 2010 20:20

According to Vayu No.102 Squadron is being re-equipped with Su-30MKI and based at Chabua

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 21 Oct 2010 21:26

Surya wrote:
This hints of nuke role taken by MKIs in addition to Mirages...Gwalior has always been in center of Indian nuke delivery mechanism with Mirages and Agni squadrons and regiments based there...


These are the permanent additions to TACDE's quota


So now TACDE is developing tactics for delivering nukes with SU 30MKI !!!!

K

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Nihat » 21 Oct 2010 21:32

its ridiculous if we continue to rely on sukhois to deliver nukes in this day and age.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 21 Oct 2010 21:36

Kersi - not sure you are being funny or serious :)

but things like 'aircraft were seen with modifications with nuclear bombs', 'aircraft were seen practicing toss bombing' and other such rubbish is the area of non proliferation ayatollahs and other like idiots from various institutes.

We on BR are smarter :)

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 21 Oct 2010 21:47

Nihat wrote:its ridiculous if we continue to rely on sukhois to deliver nukes in this day and age.


No. Don't believe that. Aircraft are much more flexible and must remain a part of any nation's delivery means.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 21 Oct 2010 21:49

more than nukes I think long range dpsa a2g missions is what they will develop...of the fb111/strike eagle type. its a new ballgame vs the lo-lo-lo jaguar thing @ 250km radius with 4x1000lb bombs,2 drop tanks and 2xr550 vs a target 2000km away reached via one aerial refueling at night in bad weather with 1000km of hostile airspace to cross...with 8 x 1000lb, 4 aam

guwahati to Nagqu north of lhasa on the railroad is 680 km per google earth. the more mountainous the terrain better place to interdict railway lines. so one way distances to potential locations are in 700-1000km range with most of it in tibet....this is well beyond what a mirage2k or Jag can reasonably expect to do esp with no chance of AAR over tibet.

only the MRCA and MKI surely can manage such deep raids.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 21 Oct 2010 23:33

The profile for nuclear delivery raids don't consist of two aircraft. Most airforces task a whole squadron to do this work. Most will need long legs, lots of power to carry ECM equipment to ingress and egress safely.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 21 Oct 2010 23:59

Kakarat wrote:According to Vayu No.102 Squadron is being re-equipped with Su-30MKI and based at Chabua


Wow..so the No.102 Trisonics (Photo Recon) squadron is now back with Su-30MKIs ? I guess the name will stay the same in memory of the MiG-25R.

Weren't they earlier based at Bareilly?


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